Two Part license question

Part 1 --

Shortly I'm going to be signing up to do my PAL w/R course, and though I fully intend to pass both tests a thought came to mind and I figured this would be a good place to ask.

Can a person pass their PAL but fail their RPAL and still be given their PAL or do they have to pass both given the person has signed up for the courses to do both? I realise a person can sign up ONLY for the PAL and pass that alone, but I was just curious how it works when a person signs up for both at the same time.

Part 2 --

The range my husband and I go to offers three options for licensing. #1 PAL alone, #2 PAL with RPAL, and #3 PAL, RPAL and OHEP (Ontario Hunter Education Program). The third option gives the greatest value (course fees are lower when combining them) and the range has suggested I take the third option. I do not, however, plan to hunt (but you never know what the future will bring). My question is this: would it be worthwhile taking it to have it under my belt?

Its pretty hard to fail the PAL or RPAL course. You basically have to attempt to shoot one or have the mental capacity of a trudeau supporter. If you some how fail the RPAL you should still get the PAL. I have never heard of anyone failing the course.

If you have any interest in hunting I would take it. Or even if you just want to learn something new take it. I am kinda cheap so I would just take option 2

If you at some point in the future you may find yourself with someone (husband?) while they hunt, it's best to have the OHEP and a small game license for yourself even if your not hunting. The wood cops will assume your hunting, even if your not and there's a rifle or shotgun in the group.

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Originally Posted by Forbes/Hutton

If you at some point in the future you may find yourself with someone (husband?) while they hunt, it's best to have the OHEP and a small game license for yourself even if your not hunting. The wood cops will assume your hunting, even if your not and there's a rifle or shotgun in the group.

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Excellent point!

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Originally Posted by Gnome7500

Its pretty hard to fail the PAL or RPAL course. You basically have to attempt to shoot one or have the mental capacity of a trudeau supporter. If you some how fail the RPAL you should still get the PAL. I have never heard of anyone failing the course.

If you have any interest in hunting I would take it. Or even if you just want to learn something new take it. I am kinda cheap so I would just take option 2

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Good to know! I don't vote Liberal, so I think I'm safe. :)

The difference in cost between the PAL/RPAL and the PAL/RPAL/OHEP is less than $100, whereas the OEHP is $190 on its own.

I would take all three together and get it over with, was going to take PAL first and so forth but someone recommended doing the RPAL together with PAL and I'm forever grateful for that advice.

I agree with the above poster that I've never heard of someone passing one and failing the other.

Generally you're talking about a practical handling test that you're either competent on or you're not, and as long as you don't wave the handguns around you'll be fine.

The RPAL is really just about the extra usage laws and storage requirements.

If I were you I'd take the hunter safety course, too. Even if you don't plan on hunting, it does teach extra things about firearm use and ownership that you don't get on the PAL courses.

"...and there's a rifle or shotgun..." That'd be if there's more than one firearm and 2 people in the blind both are assumed to be hunting. Mind you, Ontario's definition of 'hunting' covers just being there. A little CYA goes a long way.
"...RPAL is really just about the extra usage laws and..." Handling test and possession laws as well.
The whole thing is mostly about how much money you want to spend. Costs less to do the PAL(that you have to have to get the RPAL) and RPAL at the same time. Hunter's safety is mostly about the game laws and shooting safety in the field.

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Originally Posted by r5s78

Good to know! I don't vote Liberal, so I think I'm safe. :)

The difference in cost between the PAL/RPAL and the PAL/RPAL/OHEP is less than $100, whereas the OEHP is $190 on its own.

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Holy MoneyGrab Batman!
Is it $190 even with the other two courses?

I'd say take it, every extra bit of knowledge is a good thing, but for $200 I can see why people wouldn't.

Just to echo the others, the hunter safety course was put on after my PAL course. I wasn't going to go cause I had no interest at the time, but I decided to take it anyways.
Lucky I did, went deer hunting soon after and I was hooked.

Also to echo the above, it'd be extremely hard for anyone who pays attention to fail either PAL courses.
I assume they're still doing hands on with deactivated firearms, knowing how to safety check firearms you're unfamiliar with would be the most difficult part.
All I did was ask the instructor how to work the firearm first if I was unfamiliar with it. Where's the magazine release? There? Thank you.
They can't possibly expect you to know how every firearm works, but you are expected to handle everyone as if it was loaded. So keep the muzzle in a safe direction,
and your finger off the trigger.

When I did the course, It was 2 days NR, than last day was restricted. If you signed up for both.

Only thing with restricted, shorter the barrel, the easier it is to wave around. Only thing I could see someone failing for. Is sweeping someone with a muzzle. If you pass the NR, no reason why you should fail the Restricted.

My course experience. YMMV.

PAL was one saturday instruction, one Sunday morning handling, then the exam written and practical.

RPAL was the following Saturday instruction, one Sunday morning handling then the exam written and practical.

Instructor told those coming back for the second weekend to not send in our application until we finished both. That way would we check the appropriate box on the application for PAL if that's all we passed or both PAL and RPAL if we didn't. It also affected the fee we paid with the application.

So in short, too late, it is possible to pass only the PAL and still get the license. The other way not so much as the first level is a requisite for the second.

Rare but it happened in my class. One person couldn't handle the muzzle and kept pointing it outside of the safe direction promoted by the instructor all weekend long. I recall he said he would just continue bow hunting then.

FWIW.

Cheers.

Sent from my SM-G925W8 using Tapatalk

Also even if you don't intend to hunt, with a hunting license you can walk around the woods with a loaded rifle and plink poisonous mushrooms or whatever. So there's that. Safety first though, of course. Also if you go target shooting in the woods you don't have to worry about proving you're not hunting.

When my son took his Pal/RPal he was the only one who passed the RPal. A friend of mine was the examiner and said the failures were epic.

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Originally Posted by Rory McCanuck

Holy MoneyGrab Batman!
Is it $190 even with the other two courses?

I'd say take it, every extra bit of knowledge is a good thing, but for $200 I can see why people wouldn't.

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Rather than being around $600 for all three courses it works out to around $450 for all three courses if I sign up for them all at once.




*edited to change $cost of courses, I went back and looked again

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Originally Posted by Lee Enfield

When my son took his Pal/RPal he was the only one who passed the RPal. A friend of mine was the examiner and said the failures were epic.

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Did he give any indication as to what the students did wrong to fail?

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Originally Posted by r5s78

Rather than being around $600 for all three courses it works out to around $450 for all three courses if I sign up for them all at once.




*edited to change $cost of courses, I went back and looked again

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Whoah.....WHAT ???? How much are they charging if you just do the PAL and RPAL together ?!?! Either lunch had better be included, Im missing something, or that had better include both of you.

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Originally Posted by blacksmithden

Whoah.....WHAT ???? How much are they charging if you just do the PAL and RPAL together ?!?! Either lunch had better be included, Im missing something, or that had better include both of you.

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Sounds about right for Ontari-owe. IIRC it was 160-ish for my PAL, had to pass that before I could reserve a spot in the RPAL course, another 100-odd for my RPAL, plus another 100-ish for ammo, then the hunter's course I had to wait for one to come up, and it was somewhere in the mid/high 100's and it involved a 2 hours drive each way on a February day that ended up being a blizzard... add my range key and holster course, we're in the 800 ballpark. plus 350 a year

edit - they did feed us though, all of them
oh yeah I forgot the turkey course. Well at least that's gone now

My courses costed whatever it was to send the paperwork in. $80?

Ammo cost? They had you actually shoot?

Yes! That was the 2nd day of the restricted course. Instructor had soooo many different guns, I just had to buy some different calibers

My PAL/RPAL course was $100 each. $200 total. This was Ontario just over a decade ago.
Class had about 20 students, with primary instructor and assistant, and two testers (practical and written) who came in for three hours the last day.
All ammo was fake {plastic, snap caps, bullet&brass but no powder no primer and sometimes with an extra hole in the side of the brass in addition to the primer hole}. Firearms without firing pins where that was easy to do. No shooting.

Everyone has their own teaching style I guess. An assistant is good when the class is large. My restricted class, there were 12 of us with one instructor.
Demand is always high, and instructors are few and far between it seems. An artificial scarcity brought about by government meddling? At any rate, those of us that were functioning at a higher level allowed the others to have more face time in the shooting lanes, and it all worked out.

I did my course when I was 14. There was only one firearms course, so you could get it and the hunter safety course in one weekend. The instructor charged the lowest fee he was legally allowed to. All firearms were the same ones he used, probably with the firing pins removed.

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Originally Posted by blacksmithden

Whoah.....WHAT ???? How much are they charging if you just do the PAL and RPAL together ?!?! Either lunch had better be included, Im missing something, or that had better include both of you.

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These numbers include tax. I believe PAL and RPAL are $260 together (or $150 each on their own). My original numbers ($450 & $600) are a little rounded, but close enough for the point.

And yeah. Expensive.

My husband did his PAL/RPAL in Saskatchewan. It was a one day course and about $150, four years ago. The course I will be doing is one day for PAL, one day for RPAL and one day for OHEP.

They didn't say anything about food. ;)

Rather than going on memory I just dug up the information from their website.

The CFSC is $190.50. The CRFSC is $190.50 or $110.00 if having completed the CFSC within 30 days with same instructor. The OHEP course is $190.50 and does not list a discount if all three are signed up for at once, but the person I spoke with in person at the range said there is a package deal (which is where I got my original rough numbers).

Anyway ... I think I know what I'm going to do regarding the courses. :) The consensus I'm getting is that it would be worthwhile for me to do the OHEP as well as PAL/RPAL.

You said there may be a chance of you hunting. Do all three, you will be glad you did.

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Originally Posted by r5s78

Rather than going on memory I just dug up the information from their website.

The CFSC is $190.50. The CRFSC is $190.50 or $110.00 if having completed the CFSC within 30 days with same instructor. The OHEP course is $190.50 and does not list a discount if all three are signed up for at once, but the person I spoke with in person at the range said there is a package deal (which is where I got my original rough numbers).

Anyway ... I think I know what I'm going to do regarding the courses. :) The consensus I'm getting is that it would be worthwhile for me to do the OHEP as well as PAL/RPAL.

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Good choice. We did it the other way, out of ignorance. Never foresaw the need for an RPAL so just did the PAL. Needless to say a couple years later we were back doing the RPAL. Then a couple years later the OHEP. Glad you won't be repeating our mistake.

My wife and I did them both with no failures in the class but the instructor has in the past, during the RPAL, automatically failed someone, who inadvertently, pointed the handgun at or in the direction of a student, automatic fail, especially for someone who has not ever handled a handgun and tried to look for a safety and rolled it to the side to look, not noticing the barrel was pointed at the student next to them, automatic fail. It happens, I guess.

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Originally Posted by blacksmithden

Whoah.....WHAT ???? How much are they charging if you just do the PAL and RPAL together ?!?! Either lunch had better be included, Im missing something, or that had better include both of you.

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In Ontario its 170 for the PAL and 110 for the RPAL, and with 13% tax you get to around $317

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Originally Posted by DuhBoredShooter

In Ontario its 170 for the PAL and 110 for the RPAL, and with 13% tax you get to around $317

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Highway Robbery. It was 50$ each per course. I paid 100$ +15% Taxes so, 115$ for both my PAL and RPAL course.

"Highway" robbery is having to drive far in order to shoot your toys. I don't mind paying the 350/yr for a range that's 10 min away, and useable 24/7. Down in the OP's area I like the Silverdale range, but it's a 4 hour round trip for me, so there's a whole day shot :) plus the gas.

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Originally Posted by LB303

"Highway" robbery is having to drive far in order to shoot your toys. I don't mind paying the 350/yr for a range that's 10 min away, and useable 24/7. Down in the OP's area I like the Silverdale range, but it's a 4 hour round trip for me, so there's a whole day shot :) plus the gas.

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I have 3 ranges within 30mins of me. Member of 2 clubs and I'm only paying 225$ for both. Other is a free DNR one.

That sounds pretty good! The cost of the courses can be compared to the cost of a gun. Buy once cry once. The ongoing expenses are the thing to watch, whether ammo or range access. With all the new shooters that keep coming on line, and most existing clubs around here saying 'we're full' the supply & demand equation rules.

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Originally Posted by RobertMcC

Highway Robbery. It was 50$ each per course. I paid 100$ +15% Taxes so, 115$ for both my PAL and RPAL course.

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Well that's Ontario for ya

Oh its easy enough to fail! I was in a group with 6 younger fellas , yah Im 59, and one failed a written restricted .....and two failed hands on by committing safety infractions ...... they both pointed the gun at the instructor!!