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  1. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Nah, doesn't happen to me. I just always get selected for "random" pat-downs. For some strange reason.

  2. The Following User Liked This Post By firemachine69

    Candychikita (02-17-2017)

  3. #12
    Senior Member Gunexpert007's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    This has been going on for quite some time as peoples rights and privacy is slowly being eroded in the name of national security . Many folks now have travel phones and laptops that they use for travel only ,which have very min. levels of info that can be accessed . George Orwells 1984 is slowly coming true......BIG BROTHER is watching....
    " Better To Fight For Something , Than Live For Nothing " ; " When In Doubt....ATTACK ".......Gen. George S. Patton Jr.

  4. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Here's the thing, when you cross a sovereign boundary, your goods have no rights. You might have the right to enter, but digital devices can be searched, just like cars and luggage for contraband (child porn, evidence of terrorism/sedition/espionage/industrial espionage, and controlled digital goods). Inside a country you are ok, but on the national borders, in order to exercise and maintain sovereignty, things are subject to search. Privacy doesn't exist. Best advice is to use a burner, or switch your sim. If a country cannot control the flow of people and goods in and out, it is no longer a country as it has lost its sovereignty - have a look at the EU for instance - how well are open borders working for them?

  5. The Following User Liked This Post By shootemup604

    Neil Burke (02-17-2017)

  6. #14
    The Gunsmithing Moderator blacksmithden's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    I live among the creatures of the night (Edmonton)
    Isn't it wonderful that the western world has finally reached the point where our biggest risk to our personal safety and freedom are the people we Putin charge to protect it.
    GOC moderator
    Dealer/co-founder/co-owner of Tundra Supply Ltd.
    The High River Gun Grab - NEVER FORGET !!!!
    Feb 26 2014 - Swiss Arms prohibition and ordered confiscation by the RCMP - NEVER FORGET !!!!!

  7. The Following 4 Users Like This Post By blacksmithden

    alberta guy (02-18-2017), GTW (02-18-2017), LB303 (02-17-2017), Scotlas (02-17-2017)

  8. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    451 steps from Sask.
    ^^ Blacksmithden - Ha, your first post with the 'typo' in it was more accurate.

  9. The Following 4 Users Like This Post By Swingerguy

    alberta guy (02-18-2017), firemachine69 (02-17-2017), Rory McCanuck (02-17-2017), VooDoo (02-17-2017)

  10. #16
    Senior Member Doug_M's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Nova Scotia
    This today from the state broadcaster:

    'How would you know what your rights are?': Secret policies govern cellphone searches at the Canadian border

    Customs agents can search your smartphone and laptop at the border, but the guidelines involved aren't public

    Canadian border agents don't need a warrant to search your phone or laptop, which fall under the Customs Act's broader definition of 'goods.' (Sean Gallup/Getty Images)
    When you travel to the U.S., customs agents can search your smartphone, laptop and other electronic devices at will a longtime policy that has attracted renewed scrutiny in light of President Donald Trump's controversial immigration ban.

    What you may not realize is Canadian customs agents can do the same.

    But unlike the U.S., the Canadian government has not made public its policies on how those searches are conducted or even revealed if formal policies exist at all.

    Legal experts say that lack of transparency makes it difficult for travellers to know their rights when a Canadian border agent asks to conduct a digital search.

    "The border is a place that makes people nervous. You are not inclined to assert your rights, if you even know what they are, which many people don't," says Rob Currie, a law professor at Dalhousie University and director of the Law & Technology Institute at the Schulich School of Law. "And in this case, how would you know what your rights are?"

    What is known is that the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) doesn't need a warrant to search your phone or laptop, which both fall under the Customs Act's broader definition of "goods."

    But how that search is conducted whether agents can compel you to turn over your password, say, or make a copy of the data on your device remains unclear.

    The U.S. government, on the other hand, published its policy on electronic device searches in 2009.

    "I don't know if it's simply not available, not advertised or literally does not exist," says lawyer Micheal Vonn, policy director of the British Columbia Civil Liberties Association (BCCLA).

    "And I don't know that it would be to their benefit to put any of that in writing."

    CBSA did not respond to multiple requests for comment, including an emailed list of questions about its border search policies, such as how often electronic-device searches take place.

    'An invitation to abuse'

    In the absence of a formal policy, it's not clear:

    - How a Canadian customs officer decides to search a traveller's phone, laptop or electronic device, and how that search is conducted.
    - Under what circumstances data is copied or download from a device, how long the data is retained and with which agencies the data is shared.
    - How searches of electronic devices are tracked, if they are tracked at all.
    - If search-related decisions are made at the discretion of an officer rather than based on a formal policy it gives "a lot of latitude" to the front line, according to Vonn. "And when you're talking about people's rights, you must shape discretion. Not to do so is an invitation to abuse," she said.

    Lawyer Micheal Vonn believes Canadian border agents could download or copy all of the information on a device, if they wanted to. (Jonathan Hayward/Canadian Press)

    The U.S. Department of Homeland Security which includes Customs and Border Protection (CBP) and Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) conducted a review of its practices in 2009. It is available for anyone to access online.

    The review, known as a privacy impact assessment, outlines how U.S. customs agencies perform searches, what they do with the data copied from devices, how long the data is retained for, and the circumstances under which seized data can be shared with U.S. and international law enforcement agencies.

    The Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada says it has never received a similar privacy impact assessment from CBSA, according to spokesperson Tobi Cohen.

    'Interim guidelines' offer a glimpse

    Perhaps the closest thing to an official CBSA policy on device searches are internal interim guidelines dating from June 2015, obtained via access-to-information legislation and shared with the BCCLA by an unidentified source.

    At that time, CBSA told officers that "although there is no defined threshold for grounds to examine such devices, CBSA's current policy is that such examinations should not be conducted as a matter of routine."

    Officers could request passwords though not for information stored "remotely or online." And if a traveller refuses, the device could be detained for a forensic examination.

    "Could they copy it all and go through it all?" asks Vonn. "Yes. I have no understanding that there's any impediment to them doing it if they can get in."

    Currie, however, suspects that border agents would still need a warrant to perform a forensic search, but couldn't say for sure and the issue hasn't been tested in court.

    Most people don't have the incentive to mount a potentially costly and time-consuming legal challenge against the government's border-search policies, legal experts say. (CBSA)

    CBSA also recommended at the time that officers not arrest a traveller "solely for refusing to provide a password" pending the outcome of a highly publicized court case even though the agency believed "such actions appear to be legally supported." (The court case was resolved last August through a guilty plea and $500 fine, meaning some of these troublesome questions never played out in a judicial setting.)

    As a result, both Vonn and Currie say it's not clear whether CBSA still favours this recommendation.

    "We've been really urging people not to take this as the state of play," Vonn says.

    Who's going to challenge the government?

    There are a few reasons, according to legal experts, for the lack of clarity.

    One is that there has been a lack of constitutional challenges in Canada, which would have the potential to force CBSA to reveal more about its practices in court namely around compelling travellers to hand over their passwords and for the searches themselves, which are two separate issues, Currie says.

    Part of the problem is that most people don't have an incentive to launch a potentially costly and time-consuming legal challenge, says Vonn.

    "Who, in the ordinary spectrum of people who are just crossing the border because they need to for business, or they need to go to a conference, or they want to go shopping who's going to take that on? Almost nobody."

    Another reason is CBSA might argue that guidance governing electronic-device searches already exists albeit as decades-old law, written before smartphones and computers were commonplace, which has been re-interpreted to apply to present-day technology.

    Under this interpretation, the search of a phone is equivalent to the search of a suitcase, as both are "goods," even if one is capable of holding much more personal information.

    As a result, says Currie, CBSA's approach to searching electronic devices is "based around these very broad search powers that they have in the Customs Act most of which were written in the 70s and were not designed to accommodate the privacy interest in these devices."
    Call Ralph Goodale every week to Stop Bill C-71 >>> 1-306-585-2202
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  11. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    In the world of the "cloud" etc there's really no reason to cross the border with private digital information with you. Park it, and access it later from where-ever you are. The work around is stupidly simple with today's tech, and you'll break no laws or give border guards evidence of you breaking laws.

    About 10 years ago a tunnel was located under 0 Ave in Aldergrove. The initial intelligence about it came off of a cellphone during a search. Basically the people harping about this are stupid and want protection from their own stupidity. If you are going to carry child porn, pictures of your criminal activity, documentation of illegal activity (like violent protesting, working without a visa, overstaying your visa, or abusing our healthcare system) you plan to do in the country/our country you are entering, etc on your cellphone, you deserve to go to jail. Its about as dumb as me drilling out the rivets on my magazines, building a FA firearm, videoing myself shooting it in a national park at a protected species, and posting it on here.

    No borders and no controls is globalist or post-national/post-state idea.

  12. The Following User Liked This Post By shootemup604

    Edward Teach (02-17-2017)

  13. #18
    Token Female Moderator Candychikita's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Fraser Valley
    My phone and my cars have been raped going across the border. It's been happening at the border since at least 2006 for me

    Now I have a travel phone and walk across when I can.

  14. The Following 3 Users Like This Post By Candychikita

    awndray (02-17-2017), Edward Teach (02-17-2017), Likeaboss (02-17-2017)

  15. #19
    Pirate King Edward Teach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Here be dragons
    I don't keep sensitive data on any mobile device. It stays at home and if I need it, I access it via VPN or RDP.
    Know what the chain of command is? It's the chain I go get and beat you with 'til you understand who's in ruttin command here.

  16. The Following User Liked This Post By Edward Teach

    awndray (02-17-2017)

  17. #20
    Have gun, will travel. Forbes/Hutton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    If it's a business trip that's one thing.
    But if it's a vacation, why would you take a phone of laptop? 90% of stress in our world comes through on of the two.
    Remember: the opposite of "Far Right" is Far Wrong.

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