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  1. #61
    Senior Member Waterloomike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckbuster View Post
    Which one did you pick up?
    Ruger American Predator.


    It doesn't look like much and the stock is cheap. The front part of the left side of the free floating area touches the barrel. Common i'm told. And you have to pad the comb to see into your scope. So the pita part is true. But you should be impressed with the accuracy once you've dealt with the fiddly parts.

    I love mine. Especially the price. Good glass is important.
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  2. #62
    Senior Member chuckbuster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterloomike View Post
    Ruger American Predator.


    It doesn't look like much and the stock is cheap. The front part of the left side of the free floating area touches the barrel. Common i'm told. And you have to pad the comb to see into your scope. So the pita part is true. But you should be impressed with the accuracy once you've dealt with the fiddly parts.

    I love mine. Especially the price. Good glass is important.
    I have an American in .308, and it is also very accurate. I thought of one in Creedmoor for my daughter, but I think it is only available in the Predator model. And, I figure she wouldn't be fond of the colour or heavy barrel. Since I like my .308, I thought a Predator or an ordinary American would also work for me, but neither is available in Creedmoor for southpaws. Ruger does make a very impressive looking southpaw Creedmoor in the Hawkeye for almost 3X the cost though!
    Magua took the hatchet to colour with blood...It is still bright.

  3. #63
    Senior Member Waterloomike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckbuster View Post
    I have an American in .308, and it is also very accurate. I thought of one in Creedmoor for my daughter, but I think it is only available in the Predator model. And, I figure she wouldn't be fond of the colour or heavy barrel. Since I like my .308, I thought a Predator or an ordinary American would also work for me, but neither is available in Creedmoor for southpaws. Ruger does make a very impressive looking southpaw Creedmoor in the Hawkeye for almost 3X the cost though!
    3x! Daumn! You could buy the Precision for that.
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  4. #64
    Senior Member shootist1873's Avatar
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    The whole concept of the 6.5 Creedmoor has been admitted to be about target accuracy at long range, and totally disregards the artillery-like rainbow trajectory at 700 and 1000 yards, and the pitiful remaining ballistic energy.

    That being the case, you do have to wonder why it exists at all, since it merely mimics the nearly identical ballistic performance of the elderly 6.5 x 55 Swedish.

    The 6.5 Creedmoor merely offers the same performance in a shorter case. I fail to see why that shorter case and rifle action would matter at all for target shooting.

    Also, I can not see the point of simply duplicating the performance of the 6.5 X 55 Swedish in a new package at all, if the objective was about advancing the science of long-range shooting.

    It seems as if it is yet another example of how new is perceived as better, even when it offers no improvement on the past.
    Last edited by shootist1873; 08-12-2017 at 01:46 PM.

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  6. #65
    Senior Member Waterloomike's Avatar
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    I'll have deep emotional scars after this.

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  7. #66
    Senior Member shootist1873's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waterloomike View Post
    I'll have deep emotional scars after this.


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  9. #67
    Always against the grain Booletsnotreactwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shootist1873 View Post
    you do have to wonder why it exists at all, since it merely mimics the nearly identical ballistic performance of the elderly 6.5 x 55 Swedish.

    The 6.5 Creedmoor merely offers the same performance in a shorter case. I fail to see why that shorter case and rifle action would matter at all for target shooting.

    Also, I can not see the point of simply duplicating the performance of the 6.5 X 55 Swedish in a new package at all, if the objective was about advancing the science of long-range shooting.

    It seems as if it is yet another example of how new is perceived as better, even when it offers no improvement on the past.

    It wasn't about advancing the science of long range shooting or even to get the best possible performance, it was about filling a niche. Something that could excel at long range without being a wildcat or some obscure caliber nobody has bullets, brass or bolt heads for. The niche of an affordable cartridge that could still go to long range, that you could shoot by reloading or buying off the shelf without breaking the bank, all around good terminal performance, availability of rifles cambered in it, reloading components, bullets, brass, etc...

    There's plenty of cartridges that are even better in terms of exterior ballistics to the 6.5 but they aren't commonly available and neither are the rifles that shoot them. 6.5 being based of the .308 case meant it was plug and play to get AR10 manufactures to start chambering in it. Right now you could get an affordable/commonly available AR10 is 6.5 where both the rifle and cartridge will have the precision to get out to 800 yards.


    Had the 6.5 not been the 6.5 and based off something exotic (even while being better) it might not have taken off and might only be some odd ball cartridge some custom bolt rifle maker has rifles in/sells the ammo/reloading components as well.

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  11. #68
    Senior Member shootist1873's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booletsnotreactwell View Post
    It wasn't about advancing the science of long range shooting or even to get the best possible performance, it was about filling a niche. Something that could excel at long range without being a wildcat or some obscure caliber nobody has bullets, brass or bolt heads for. The niche of an affordable cartridge that could still go to long range, that you could shoot by reloading or buying off the shelf without breaking the bank, all around good terminal performance, availability of rifles cambered in it, reloading components, bullets, brass, etc...

    There's plenty of cartridges that are even better in terms of exterior ballistics to the 6.5 but they aren't commonly available and neither are the rifles that shoot them. 6.5 being based of the .308 case meant it was plug and play to get AR10 manufactures to start chambering in it. Right now you could get an affordable/commonly available AR10 is 6.5 where both the rifle and cartridge will have the precision to get out to 800 yards.


    Had the 6.5 not been the 6.5 and based off something exotic (even while being better) it might not have taken off and might only be some odd ball cartridge some custom bolt rifle maker has rifles in/sells the ammo/reloading components as well.
    If the goal is "precision" rifle shooting at the extreme range of 800 yards, why would anyone use a semi-automatic action like the AR-10? Only a well-tuned bolt action is really suitable to achieve reasonable accuracy for this type of shooting at 800 yards, or 1000 yards as previously mentioned.

    Since the 6.5 X 55 Swedish achieves the same ballistics easily, simply chambering a new bolt action for it would make more sense than launching a new cartridge that simply mimics it in a short case.

    And, since a bolt action is the way to go for long range shooting, why bother with the 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 X 55 Swedish, .308 Winchester, or .30-06 at all?

    There are plenty of better factory rounds available for the task.

  12. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by shootist1873 View Post
    The whole concept of the 6.5 Creedmoor has been admitted to be about target accuracy at long range, and totally disregards the artillery-like rainbow trajectory at 700 and 1000 yards, and the pitiful remaining ballistic energy.

    That being the case, you do have to wonder why it exists at all, since it merely mimics the nearly identical ballistic performance of the elderly 6.5 x 55 Swedish.

    The 6.5 Creedmoor merely offers the same performance in a shorter case. I fail to see why that shorter case and rifle action would matter at all for target shooting.

    Also, I can not see the point of simply duplicating the performance of the 6.5 X 55 Swedish in a new package at all, if the objective was about advancing the science of long-range shooting.

    It seems as if it is yet another example of how new is perceived as better, even when it offers no improvement on the past.
    You should say the same about the 375 Ruger. You'll get banned from a forum or two.

  13. #70
    Always against the grain Booletsnotreactwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shootist1873 View Post
    If the goal is "precision" rifle shooting at the extreme range of 800 yards, why would anyone use a semi-automatic action like the AR-10? Only a well-tuned bolt action is really suitable to achieve reasonable accuracy for this type of shooting at 800 yards, or 1000 yards as previously mentioned.

    Since the 6.5 X 55 Swedish achieves the same ballistics easily, simply chambering a new bolt action for it would make more sense than launching a new cartridge that simply mimics it in a short case.
    Man you're just not getting it are you, you're responding to straw arguments from words that jump out at you and missing the actual argument.

    Nobody who is shooting competitions is using an AR10 if they can use bolt rifles, never implied that so I don't know where you got that from. I'm saying that the fact that there's AR10's available in it are a byproduct of the fact that it didn't take much modifications to get them to run in 6.5 vs other cartridges where it would have meant major modifications and retooling, so it wouldn't have happened. Since it's easier to get guns to be chambered in it manufactures chamber guns in it which means more guns, which means more popularization and more availability. If AR10 guys, etc are popularizing the cartridge you shoot, there's gonna be more of it for the bolt guys, ammo makers will make match ammo, reloading supplies, cases, etc...


    Here let's re-read a post from page #2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Booletsnotreactwell View Post
    I think part of the 6.5 Creedmoor design was that they wanted stuff to be commonly available and require the least amount of modifications at the OEM level. There's all sorts of semi-auto rifles that can fire 6.5 now using .308 bolt heads, using the 06 long action would have limited availability and potentially never have taken off as a result.

    The reason it was based off the .308 and not some exotic cartridge is because the infrastructure was already set up for it, taking advantage of that lead to it's popularity. If it was some weird cartridge that was 100% proprietary less makers would take a swing at it and it wouldn't be commonly available.




    Quote Originally Posted by shootist1873 View Post
    And, since a bolt action is the way to go for long range shooting, why bother with the 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 X 55 Swedish, .308 Winchester, or .30-06 at all?

    There are plenty of better factory rounds available for the task.
    Same reason why most people don't shoot .338 Lapua Mag or .50 BMG even if it's better. They don't wanna spend 5 grand on a rifle, they don't want a rifle that's 20lbs, they don't wanna spend $5 a shot, they shoot long range precision yet still in the 500-800m band and an intermediate long range cartridge like that offers the best balance.

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