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View Full Version : Lever 30/30 & sinking projectiles?



Shakeyjake
11-22-2013, 06:05 PM
So on Sunday I want to go for one last walk through the bush to chase up a deer. If I at least see one I'll call it a successful day.....it's been a rough year. It'll be close range in the bush and love the Winchester Model 94 as it's light, fast and enjoyable to carry. The last time I used the rifle was for bear, sitting in a stand with one in the chamber hammer down watching the big critters run around the place. I went out about 15 evenings or so, so I did a lot of loading & unloading of rounds. After a while I started noticing some of the projectiles sinking deeper into the case. I've noticed this in both my Federal & Win factory ammo. I wonder if I'll start experiencing pressure issues? Anybody else have this happen? Weak crimp maybe? I don't really want to toss the rounds but a couple of them are pretty deep so a few will have to go I guess.

Rory McCanuck
11-22-2013, 08:17 PM
Bullet set-back is a bad thing. How bad depends.
Have they set back 0.020" or 1/2"? If it's just a bit, I wouldn't worry, if you can measure the difference with a tape measure, I'd be concerned. Do you know anyone that reloads? They could reseat the bullets and crimp them easily enough.
You're bang on with the '94 though, easy to carry, and points like your finger. That old round nose bullet seems to work pretty well, too.

blacksmithden
11-22-2013, 10:36 PM
I've still got my first gun...Winchester 94 in 30-30...and I've never had an issue with collapsing cartridges. I've had more than a few with the tip of the bullet beat to crap from repeated loading and unloading, but never a sinking bullet issue. I wonder if they've started making the brass thinner to save money and it's just not able to hold the bullet in place ? Anyway...If you happen to be around Edmonton, I've got a bullet pulling hammer that would move them back into position, and a factory crimp die to redo the crimp.

Shakeyjake
11-22-2013, 10:37 PM
Bullet set-back is a bad thing. How bad depends.
Have they set back 0.020" or 1/2"? If it's just a bit, I wouldn't worry, if you can measure the difference with a tape measure, I'd be concerned. Do you know anyone that reloads? They could reseat the bullets and crimp them easily enough.
You're bang on with the '94 though, easy to carry, and points like your finger. That old round nose bullet seems to work pretty well, too.

They're noticeable by eye (comparing to untouched rounds in the box) and others are quite obviously sunk in. So I guess that rules out a tape measure I reload but don't have dies for 30/30.
I've got a Dillon 550 and usually use it for loading pistol stuff, turning it into a single stage for 270, 308 and other calibers where precision is desired.
Tomorrow I'm getting some Hornady Leverolution stuff, test at the range, walk Sunday and chase some whitetails.

Shakeyjake
11-22-2013, 10:52 PM
I've still got my first gun...Winchester 94 in 30-30...and I've never had an issue with collapsing cartridges. I've had more than a few with the tip of the bullet beat to crap from repeated loading and unloading, but never a sinking bullet issue. I wonder if they've started making the brass thinner to save money and it's just not able to hold the bullet in place ? Anyway...If you happen to be around Edmonton, I've got a bullet pulling hammer that would move them back into position, and a factory crimp die to redo the crimp.

Everything's going to he!! here in MB (for a pole climber anyway...and I'm not a stripper)and I'd love to be in AB! Every holiday we take out there I shed a tear as I see the land I love disappear in the rearview mirror.
I've got a pulling hammer but the reseating is an issue. Only dies close I have are for 308.
I guess I could try tapping the bullet hammer and go from there?

A corrupted individual
11-23-2013, 12:10 PM
I've still got my first gun...Winchester 94 in 30-30...and I've never had an issue with collapsing cartridges. I've had more than a few with the tip of the bullet beat to crap from repeated loading and unloading, but never a sinking bullet issue. I wonder if they've started making the brass thinner to save money and it's just not able to hold the bullet in place ? Anyway...If you happen to be around Edmonton, I've got a bullet pulling hammer that would move them back into position, and a factory crimp die to redo the crimp.

Not a new thing, I have a 30-30 cartridge from the 1980s that the whole bullet is pretty much inside the case. I'll post a pic soon.

Rory McCanuck
11-23-2013, 12:20 PM
Lengthen them with the kinetic puller, and re-seat them with your .308 die.
30-30 brass should go in with no problem???
You might even be able to crimp with your .308 die, with some patient experimentation.
You might be able to get the 30-30s in deep enough?

Ideally, the brass should have the bullets pulled, at least the neck resized, and then the bullet seated and crimped.
That way, neck tension is really holding the bullet like it should, not using a crimp as a band-aid.
More consistent neck tension should also improve accuracy.

A corrupted individual
11-25-2013, 11:25 AM
http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t538/Luke_J_Morrison/IMG_0557_zps63f56e43.jpg (http://s1312.photobucket.com/user/Luke_J_Morrison/media/IMG_0557_zps63f56e43.jpg.html)

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t538/Luke_J_Morrison/IMG_0556_zps90e0adc8.jpg (http://s1312.photobucket.com/user/Luke_J_Morrison/media/IMG_0556_zps90e0adc8.jpg.html)

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t538/Luke_J_Morrison/IMG_0555_zpsf5596e46.jpg (http://s1312.photobucket.com/user/Luke_J_Morrison/media/IMG_0555_zpsf5596e46.jpg.html)

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t538/Luke_J_Morrison/IMG_0554_zpsa7823c3c.jpg (http://s1312.photobucket.com/user/Luke_J_Morrison/media/IMG_0554_zpsa7823c3c.jpg.html)

Rory McCanuck
11-25-2013, 12:02 PM
^^^^
Interesting, I have some Imperial brass that after resizing, the bullet falls into the neck.
Thickness is correct, it's just the age/springback in the brass. Annealing them would likely fix it, but I haven't collected enough of them to make it worthwhile yet.

Satain
11-25-2013, 12:55 PM
http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t538/Luke_J_Morrison/IMG_0557_zps63f56e43.jpg (http://s1312.photobucket.com/user/Luke_J_Morrison/media/IMG_0557_zps63f56e43.jpg.html)

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t538/Luke_J_Morrison/IMG_0556_zps90e0adc8.jpg (http://s1312.photobucket.com/user/Luke_J_Morrison/media/IMG_0556_zps90e0adc8.jpg.html)

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t538/Luke_J_Morrison/IMG_0555_zpsf5596e46.jpg (http://s1312.photobucket.com/user/Luke_J_Morrison/media/IMG_0555_zpsf5596e46.jpg.html)

http://i1312.photobucket.com/albums/t538/Luke_J_Morrison/IMG_0554_zpsa7823c3c.jpg (http://s1312.photobucket.com/user/Luke_J_Morrison/media/IMG_0554_zpsa7823c3c.jpg.html)
Something is not right here at all. Time to get some chamber sizing checked. I would also load up an empty case with just the bullet and check to make sure it's nothing mechanical.

A corrupted individual
11-25-2013, 04:55 PM
Something is not right here at all. Time to get some chamber sizing checked. I would also load up an empty case with just the bullet and check to make sure it's nothing mechanical.

I've never put this cartridge in a rifle, when my grandfather died I inherited his model 94 and a box of Winchester ammo came with it, this was in the box of winchester ammo.

Rory McCanuck
11-25-2013, 07:44 PM
Some of the old ammunition had a second crimp, at the base of the bullet to prevent exactly that.
Can't find the pic I was thinking of, I think it was a 577/450, but this one shows the same idea.
http://img355.imageshack.us/img355/976/saberhstrr2.jpg

Satain
11-25-2013, 11:14 PM
I've never put this cartridge in a rifle, when my grandfather died I inherited his model 94 and a box of Winchester ammo came with it, this was in the box of winchester ammo.
WoW!
I wouldn't use that ammo then. I would take the bullets off and resize then slap some new powder in before I shot that ammo again.

A corrupted individual
11-27-2013, 12:00 PM
WoW!
I wouldn't use that ammo then. I would take the bullets off and resize then slap some new powder in before I shot that ammo again.

Thats the only imperial cartridge I have, the rest is Winchester and its very best. I'll keep that imperial cartridge just because its interesting lol