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Smokechecker
11-24-2013, 04:54 PM
Our strictly outdoor range is updating our range rules to allow pistols to be holstered, unloaded with the action closed while not standing directly on the firing line. A couple of guys are against this because they feel some people will display terror at the sight of a holstered pistol.

I need to find a list of ranges that allow holstered pistols in order to take this back to the board and present a case once and for all that guns are not to be feared.

Any help I can get would be appreciated.


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blacksmithden
11-24-2013, 07:22 PM
As far as I know, our range - Genesee - operated by the Canadian Historical Arms Society or CHAS for short doesn't have any rules about guns being in holsters. Maybe ask these alleged people to come forward and make their case...then ask them if they run at the sight of a cop with a gun in a holster as well....that is assuming these people actually exist and aren't just fiction made up by one or two people in order to get their way and divert blame from themselves.

Smokechecker
11-24-2013, 07:25 PM
Is this in Alta?


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armycat
11-24-2013, 07:34 PM
Medicine Hat Rifle and Revolver Club allows holsters. Most holster user are involved in IPSC, IDPA, or cowboy action. Firearms must be unloaded when not on the firing line, revolver cylinders must be completely empty and pistols must have empty chamber and no magazine. Holsters must be strong side, except for cowboy action which allows cross draw. Shoulder holsters are not permitted.

Smokechecker
11-24-2013, 07:37 PM
Medicine Hat Rifle and Revolver Club allows holsters. Most holster user are involved in IPSC, IDPA, or cowboy action. Firearms must be unloaded when not on the firing line, revolver cylinders must be completely empty and pistols must have empty chamber and no magazine. Holsters must be strong side, except for cowboy action which allows cross draw. Shoulder holsters are not permitted.

This is what I'm talkin' about!!!


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blacksmithden
11-24-2013, 11:02 PM
Is this in Alta?


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Yes...Edmonton area.

TPK
11-25-2013, 06:15 PM
If you want to draw and shoot from a holster at our club you must have training in doing so from what ever discipline you are associated with (CAS, IPSC, etc.). If you want to draw and shoot from a holster and are not part of a section such as CAS and IPSC where training is provided (and required before you can shoot this way), then you must attend a club sponsored "holster course" which gets you your basics. It isn't a matter of the fear of seeing someone with a holstered firearm that is the problem, it's due diligence on the part of the club to make sure people are safe. Those that have been trained to draw and shoot from a holster know that it isn't as simple and straight forward as most people think .. at least doing so safely isn't, it requires a little training. This was voted on by our club members, not dreamed up by the Executive. Members were seeing people with obviously no training at all strapping on holsters and trying to draw and shoot as fast the could .. My personal feeling is training is a requirement for drawing and shooting from a holster, call me a fud or what ever, if people don't learn the safe way, then they are learning the wrong way. Most clubs can not afford the liability of turning a blind eye to unsafe behavior.

SubVet49
11-25-2013, 06:25 PM
On Vancouver Island, there are several ranges that allow holstering of pistols and revolvers during cease fire sessions, of course after unloading, actions cleared and magazines out. Generally, these folks participate in shooting sports that utilize holsters, eg IPSC, IDPA, Cowboy Action, etc. Most of these have specific holster safety training given by the respective subsidiary clubs with the main club. I am not sure how they handle the general membership or the public.

blacksmithden
11-25-2013, 06:25 PM
If you want to draw and shoot from a holster at our club you must have training in doing so from what ever discipline you are associated with (CAS, IPSC, etc.). If you want to draw and shoot from a holster and are not part of a section such as CAS and IPSC where training is provided (and required before you can shoot this way), then you must attend a club sponsored "holster course" which gets you your basics. It isn't a matter of the fear of seeing someone with a holstered firearm that is the problem, it's due diligence on the part of the club to make sure people are safe. Those that have been trained to draw and shoot from a holster know that it isn't as simple and straight forward as most people think .. at least doing so safely isn't, it requires a little training. This was voted on by our club members, not dreamed up by the Executive. Members were seeing people with obviously no training at all strapping on holsters and trying to draw and shoot as fast the could .. My personal feeling is training is a requirement for drawing and shooting from a holster, call me a fud or what ever, if people don't learn the safe way, then they are learning the wrong way. Most clubs can not afford the liability of turning a blind eye to unsafe behavior.

Just to clarify...the OP isn't asking about rules on drawing and firing from a holster....just about walking around with a gun in a holster. Some people don't like to leave their stuff sitting on a bench when they change targets and what have you. Some people just like to walk around with a holster on because they can. To each his own.

mavrik9
11-25-2013, 07:43 PM
I understand the need for safety, as well as needing to know how to use your own gear properly, (get trained). But for the issue of fear of a holstered pistol? Why is that person at the range? Again it comes down to training and safety, maybe we need a beginners night once a month to help curb there fear by teaching respect. Knowledge is empowering.

Strewth
11-26-2013, 12:19 AM
I just checked our range rules on the new website, and they changed from holstered anywhere on the property to on the firing line! WTF! The safest place for control, theft, or damage is a holster! Plus it's the only place I can see how comfortable it is to walk around with different set-ups for action games.

Smokechecker
11-26-2013, 12:24 AM
I just checked our range rules on the new website, and they changed from holstered anywhere on the property to on the firing line! WTF! The safest place for control, theft, or damage is a holster! Plus it's the only place I can see how comfortable it is to walk around with different set-ups for action games.

What range is this?


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Strewth
11-26-2013, 02:14 AM
^Chilliwack Fish and Game. I've missed meetings here and there, but I didn't hear any rumblings about this. Not missing the next meeting (Dec. 11). I'd like to hear the reasoning behind the change.

Smokechecker
11-26-2013, 01:04 PM
Bring a mob with you and dominate that meeting!


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Strewth
11-27-2013, 12:02 PM
Heh. I thought about it, and I'm guessing the reason will be that we got "Action bays" installed through much pushing by our IDPA contingent. I'm going to bet there was some compromise demanded by the, um, more senior members of the executive. So IMO in a word, politics.
We have a (very nice) new website, I`ll post up there and see if I get an answer first...

Strewth
11-27-2013, 11:07 PM
Well, colour me embarrassed for jumping to conclusions, it would seem the wording was changed in our rule book, but the intent was to stay the same...holstered unloaded pistol OK on property...maybe I'll get the rule clarification named after me. "The strewth about holstering" has a nice ring.

Smokechecker
12-02-2013, 06:00 AM
Well, colour me embarrassed for jumping to conclusions, it would seem the wording was changed in our rule book, but the intent was to stay the same...holstered unloaded pistol OK on property...maybe I'll get the rule clarification named after me. "The strewth about holstering" has a nice ring.

Hahahaha. At least the executive didn't take that jump to asshatery.


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TPK
12-02-2013, 04:38 PM
Just to clarify...the OP isn't asking about rules on drawing and firing from a holster....just about walking around with a gun in a holster. Some people don't like to leave their stuff sitting on a bench when they change targets and what have you. Some people just like to walk around with a holster on because they can. To each his own.
In our club there is no such thing as "just walking around with a gun in a holster" .. at some point that firearm is coming out of the holster, if not to be shot, then at the very least when it's put away for the trip home. The rules apply to anyone and everyone that wants to wear a holstered firearm while on club property .. training is required.

Smokechecker
12-02-2013, 04:53 PM
In our club there is no such thing as "just walking around with a gun in a holster" .. at some point that firearm is coming out of the holster, if not to be shot, then at the very least when it's put away for the trip home. The rules apply to anyone and everyone that wants to wear a holstered firearm while on club property .. training is required.

Which club is this?


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bradofcanada
12-02-2013, 05:39 PM
Copied right off my clubs website :

Members and their guests MUST be holstered trained (IPSC/PPC/CDP/IDPA) before they are
permitted to engage in holstered firearms activities on any of our ranges.

Smokechecker
12-02-2013, 05:43 PM
Copied right off my clubs website :

Members and their guests MUST be holstered trained (IPSC/PPC/CDP/IDPA) before they are
permitted to engage in holstered firearms activities on any of our ranges.

Holstered firearm activities like....what? Those aforementioned??? cowboy action????


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bradofcanada
12-02-2013, 05:57 PM
ANY I do believe

Smokechecker
12-02-2013, 06:05 PM
So essentially no pistol owner, regardless of experience, is allowed to use a holster at your range (for plinking or otherwise) without first putting out a large sum of money at someone else's demand for a course.


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bradofcanada
12-02-2013, 06:20 PM
yup thats what it says ,you have to be holster trained

TPK
12-02-2013, 06:20 PM
Which club is this?


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That would be the Quesnel Rod and Gun Club

Smokechecker
12-02-2013, 06:53 PM
That would be the Quesnel Rod and Gun Club

Remind me to never go there.


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Mad Hatter
12-03-2013, 12:29 AM
Interesting read. IMHO, I don't see why anyone attending a range to shoot should not be allowed to carry their unloaded/magazineless firearm in a holster for the simple reason of keeping it safe and out of the way. There is obviously not going to be any drawing/firing so why training to do only this one thing - keep it safe on your person? I mean if I am at the range by myself and need to step away from my spot to use the men's room, I have to lock it, then lock it in it's case and perhaps even then take the case with me to the john. Stupid. Kind of CFO-ish.

Smokechecker
12-03-2013, 06:52 AM
Interesting read. IMHO, I don't see why anyone attending a range to shoot should not be allowed to carry their unloaded/magazineless firearm in a holster for the simple reason of keeping it safe and out of the way. There is obviously not going to be any drawing/firing so why training to do only this one thing - keep it safe on your person? I mean if I am at the range by myself and need to step away from my spot to use the men's room, I have to lock it, then lock it in it's case and perhaps even then take the case with me to the john. Stupid. Kind of CFO-ish.

This is exactly what two if our members demand; either leave the pistol on the bench unloaded & action open if you have to step away ( I don't think I need to explain the legal ramifications of leaving a restricted weapon unattended ) or lock it up in your vehicle.
This thinking is something Windy Wendy would cook up as a first step in gun control.

If we left a rifle ( non-restricted ) unattended and it went missing, we would get shit from the cops and they would fill out a report. The other.............,you fill in the blanks.

A prominent figure in protecting our gun rights is quoted as saying "Some folks need to lighten up and quit being overly controlling of others"..


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Fxsb
12-03-2013, 11:23 AM
"I need to find a list of ranges that allow holstered pistols in order to take this back to the board and present a case once and for all that guns are not to be feared."

Onoway, Sherwood Park, Grande Prairie, Bonneyville, Grande Cache

AFSS RO course states.
"The safest place for a handgun not being fired is in a holster"

armycat
12-03-2013, 06:35 PM
Medicine Hat Rifle and Revolver Club as well.

TPK
12-04-2013, 11:39 AM
Remind me to never go there.


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Why would you say that? It's an awesome club. It's run by it's members, not by the Executive. It was the membership that brought forth the concern of people using holsters that have no training in the use of a holster. It's the membership that decided a short free course would be offered to those that want to do this. Most of the people using a holster (as mentioned previously) have had training in their specific discipline (CAS, IPSC, etc.). So would you also not participate in any CAS or IPSC events because they insist on you having training to use a firearm with a holster??

TPK
12-04-2013, 11:50 AM
Interesting read. IMHO, I don't see why anyone attending a range to shoot should not be allowed to carry their unloaded/magazineless firearm in a holster for the simple reason of keeping it safe and out of the way. There is obviously not going to be any drawing/firing so why training to do only this one thing - keep it safe on your person? I mean if I am at the range by myself and need to step away from my spot to use the men's room, I have to lock it, then lock it in it's case and perhaps even then take the case with me to the john. Stupid. Kind of CFO-ish.

The problem is that eventually someone is going to decide to draw and fire from their holster (it likely will be done when no none is around to see) and at that point, wouldn't have been prudent for the club to have insisted on some sort of holster training?? With our club it's free and only takes a couple of hours. Peace of mind and due diligence.

People that believe they can let folks carry in a holster with the understanding that they are not allowed to draw and shoot from the holster are na´ve if they believe it isn't going to happen.

One more thing to consider is your clubs insurance. If there is an A.D. (accidental discharge) while a firearm is being holstered or un-holstered and someone is hurt ... your club is pretty much done for. You have turned a blind eye to people using holsters if you don't have some sort of training or competency requirement for those that are not already trained through disciplines such as CAS or IPSC. The FACT that disciplines that use holsters have requirements and training for doing so is "case in point" that it needs to be done.

Smokechecker
12-04-2013, 05:59 PM
Our range is so remote and hidden, no one brings IDPA, IPSC, PPC to it. A holster course would get laughed at due to the small number of pistol shooters we have with exclusion of the Cowboy Action Shooters.


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TPK
12-04-2013, 06:18 PM
Our range is so remote and hidden, no one brings IDPA, IPSC, PPC to it. A holster course would get laughed at due to the small number of pistol shooters we have with exclusion of the Cowboy Action Shooters.

OK, so you're part of small club where holsters aren't used .. or very infrequently used by a small CAS section. Why the contempt with clubs that are trying to avoid potential problems? If your club is that small and out of the way I can see no reason to be concerned leaving your firearm on the firing line while changing targets.

Smokechecker
12-04-2013, 06:50 PM
OK, so you're part of small club where holsters aren't used .. or very infrequently used by a small CAS section. Why the contempt with clubs that are trying to avoid potential problems? If your club is that small and out of the way I can see no reason to be concerned leaving your firearm on the firing line while changing targets.

Because there is the chance of people showing up out of nowhere. It does happen. As far as trying to avoid potential problems, remember what a particular political party once said "If it saves just one life...."?

I have never heard of a single negligent discharge from a holstered pistol by a civilian. EVER.


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Strewth
12-04-2013, 09:53 PM
I have never heard of a single negligent discharge from a holstered pistol by a civilian. EVER.


In Canada, or in Tex Grebner?

Smokechecker
12-04-2013, 10:06 PM
In Canada, or in Tex Grebner?

???


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Strewth
12-05-2013, 01:16 AM
???


Well, I think Tex was very generous to post his mistake on Youtube, and point out a problem that can occur with Serpa holsters. I's just that you said "ever" and I thought Mr. Grebner was a fairly famous example of what not to do...accidents happen, we're only human, and I still think a holster is the safest place for a handgun. Especially at a gun range.

Smokechecker
12-05-2013, 06:07 AM
Never heard of Tex Grebner. Will have to take a look.


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awndray
12-05-2013, 06:17 AM
Medicine Hat Rifle and Revolver Club allows holsters. Most holster user are involved in IPSC, IDPA, or cowboy action. Firearms must be unloaded when not on the firing line, revolver cylinders must be completely empty and pistols must have empty chamber and no magazine. Holsters must be strong side, except for cowboy action which allows cross draw. Shoulder holsters are not permitted.
This is what we have at our club as well, except for the cross-draw I believe. We've just implemented this as on last month after years of only being allowed to holster at the firing line. It was a nuisance to go to the washroom or just shoot the shit (pun not intended, lol) or walk to your car to get something. I'm glad we've made the change.

Smokechecker
12-05-2013, 06:25 AM
Just pulled up a couple "Tex" vids............... It is very sad his parents had to meet and reproduce. Grebner is about as smart as the Florida DEA agent who shot himself after trusting a fellow agent to clear his weapon.


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Smokechecker
12-10-2013, 10:20 PM
After stacking the meeting with their buddy's and false information, the anti-holster asshats got their way. People like this will ensure heavy restrictions on gun owners remain so long as those on the other side don't stand and be counted and turn out to meetings to let their vote count.


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Strewth
12-10-2013, 11:15 PM
Booo. Why would they do this? It's the kind of stuff that gets ranges shut down through lack of membership:(. I just can't fathom gun owners that are anti-holster.

Smokechecker
12-10-2013, 11:20 PM
These individuals are nothing but closet LIEberals, making policies based on emotion and passing it off as safety. Most of these old f***s don't even know the meaning of safety.


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Edenchef
12-10-2013, 11:21 PM
After stacking the meeting with their buddy's and false information, the anti-holster asshats got their way. People like this will ensure heavy restrictions on gun owners remain so long as those on the other side don't stand and be counted and turn out to meetings to let their vote count.


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Quick! Check, I think you have been infiltrated by anti agents.

Cheers!

Strewth
12-10-2013, 11:26 PM
These individuals are nothing but closet LIEberals, making policies based on emotion and passing it off as safety. Most of these old f***s don't even know the meaning of safety.


I am so happy we got some young-at-heart, and some young-in-body people willing to give up a bunch of their free time to be members of the executive at our club.

Smokechecker
12-10-2013, 11:29 PM
Time and time again I see the older generation try and keep a tight fist on the old way of doing things and has proven to be a detriment to organizations by not moving forward. This is where we are at!


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Haywire1
12-11-2013, 07:16 AM
While I understand this is an emotional topic for some people, I suggest easing up a bit. We have manyyoung at heart members, and some of the posts are pushing the line a bit in regards to comments about age. I am sure there are plenty of fudds around, however there are also plenty who are not. Carry on lads. Smokechecker I am sorry the motion failed.

BrotherRockeye
12-11-2013, 08:49 AM
Just another reason you won't find this hombre at "your" ranges...30+ years with a holster and I wouldn't be qualified to take a pee with an empty iron on my belt...nice.

It's just the tide of progress washing over the sand at the beach...it started with mandatory seat belt use and will lead to micro chipped mass transit from cubby hole to cubicle...people in general cannot be trusted with their own safety...especially if it fills the coffers of those at the top...

Makes me sad for my children...

Edenchef
12-11-2013, 11:29 AM
Just another reason you won't find this hombre at "your" ranges...30+ years with a holster and I wouldn't be qualified to take a pee with an empty iron on my belt...nice.

It's just the tide of progress washing over the sand at the beach...it started with mandatory seat belt use and will lead to micro chipped mass transit from cubby hole to cubicle...people in general cannot be trusted with their own safety...especially if it fills the coffers of those at the top...

Makes me sad for my children...

You nailed it, sir!

Cheers!

Smokechecker
12-11-2013, 10:17 PM
Just another reason you won't find this hombre at "your" ranges...30+ years with a holster and I wouldn't be qualified to take a pee with an empty iron on my belt...nice.

It's just the tide of progress washing over the sand at the beach...it started with mandatory seat belt use and will lead to micro chipped mass transit from cubby hole to cubicle...people in general cannot be trusted with their own safety...especially if it fills the coffers of those at the top...

Makes me sad for my children...

Sadly, one cannot call it progress. More like devolving. These fudds who out of sheer delusion listen to the left and with their last breath will doom generations to come with these twisted ideologies. If there is ever a time when guns get confiscated, then let it be the fudds who lose first because the don't deserve the right to be gun owners of Canada!


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BrotherRockeye
12-12-2013, 10:31 AM
It should have read progress

coldestcanuck
12-22-2013, 02:55 PM
abbotsford fish and game--holsters ok -no x draw-no shoulder or sob