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View Full Version : JR Cox (The Shooting Edge) on the Swiss Arms Reclassification



Prairie Dog
02-28-2014, 04:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0Tuojj8ef8

Thoughts?

Chalk
02-28-2014, 04:16 PM
First thought. His transparency is upfront. Personally I believe he did well in explaining his side. He owned up to his actions but instead of merely apologizing he understands yes the damage is done. He is pushing forward to help with the situation. Good dude in my books.

DOA
02-28-2014, 04:21 PM
It's hard to fault someone for doing what they believe to be right. I find it hard to believe he thought things would go this far and he seems to be committed to helping the cause and sport.

Rory McCanuck
02-28-2014, 04:44 PM
"It was never my intention to cause such distress to the firearms community."
But you did.
I think his fate will depend on how all this turns out.
If everyone loses their guns, his name will be Mud.
If the sh**storm causes the re-writing of the Firearms Act, he'll be invited to walk on water at every gun club's BBQ fundraising party.

Stephen
02-28-2014, 04:47 PM
To hell with him

Strewth
02-28-2014, 04:47 PM
.....

I think I agree with Rory, but I'll never spend money there.

Stephen
02-28-2014, 04:48 PM
"It was never my intention to cause such distress to the firearms community."
But you did.
I think his fate will depend on how all this turns out.
If everyone loses their guns, his name will be Mud.
If the sh**storm causes the re-writing of the Firearms Act, he'll be invited to walk on water at every gun club's BBQ fundraising party.
F- that!

ReignCzech
02-28-2014, 04:48 PM
^^^

heh, heh, or perhaps the pig on spits roasting with the pole up his ass and apple in his mouth.

exmilitary
02-28-2014, 04:58 PM
^^^

heh, heh, or perhaps the pig on spits roasting with the pole up his ass and apple in his mouth.

Why waste an apple? ;)

wpdk
02-28-2014, 05:25 PM
Can someone help me understand the back-story? I am not successful in searching forum threads on my phone.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

Ben
02-28-2014, 05:37 PM
That f'in whimp disabled the comments.

'enough said.

I hope he loose his business over this.

Forbes/Hutton
02-28-2014, 05:45 PM
He didn't like that someone else was importing "his" guns and went crying to teacher. At best he would have screwed over innocent buyers who didn't know that they were buying from "the fake dealer". Instead he screwed over all the buyers, including his own customers due to his petty spite. This guy is like an ex-wife, and should be treated as such by the whole gun community.

superbrad
02-28-2014, 06:00 PM
Bs.... his sole motivation was greed.... nothing more nothing less.... a true firearms advocate wiuld never send a gun in for inspection.... PERIOD..... there is no excuse for what he did.....

And ya... I dont care if we win the fight.... it certainly won't be because he helped.... tse will never get a cent of my money abd I encourage others to boycott them as well... we need beyter than this.....

Also, all being said.... I am as fuddly as they come.... I own only wood and blued steel guns with exception of my m and p 9.... but I will advocate every law abiding citizens rights to own the fitearm of their choice....

Ne t thing is what?... I have to turn in my corvette because its capable of breaking the speed limit?



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superbrad
02-28-2014, 06:02 PM
Bs.... his sole motivation was greed.... nothing more nothing less.... a true firearms advocate wiuld never send a gun in for inspection.... PERIOD..... there is no excuse for what he did.....

And ya... I dont care if we win the fight.... it certainly won't be because he helped.... tse will never get a cent of my money and I encourage others to boycott them as well... we need better than this.....

Also, all being said.... I am as fuddly as they come.... I own only wood and blued steel guns with exception of my m and p 9.... but I will advocate every law abiding citizens rights to own the firearm of their choice....

Next thing is what?... I have to turn in my corvette because its capable of breaking the speed limit?



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harbl_the_cat
02-28-2014, 11:29 PM
I like JR and I think the timing of both the 858 and Swiss Arms reclassification goes to show unequivocally that the issue is with the RCMP and with the government, not just his actions.

I can and will vouch for what JR's saying in this video too. He personally donated several thousand dollars worth of products and services to my club for our charity fundraisers over the years and just last year, he personally donated $1500 worth or prizes and ammo to help me setup our youth shooting program.

I don't know all the owners at CSC very well I was a member there for a while, and they seem like nice enough guys. They turned me and a few of the other members of my club down when we asked for support though, but that's ok - most places we solicited for donations turned us down, too.

I do know JR and I know he genuinely cares about the shooting community.

Every year that I've been involved (8 years) - JR has donated a full membership (James, one of the owners at CSC did too, when he was still at TSE). THe membership is worth around $400 - $500 and it is ALWAYS the most highly valued prize, going to the person who raises the most money for the Children's Hospital), and on several occasions, he donated a lot of supplies and prizes.]

Prairie Dog
02-28-2014, 11:38 PM
Can someone help me understand the back-story? I am not successful in searching forum threads on my phone.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

http://tv-presspass.com/swiss-arms-in-canada-the-full-story/

Steveo9mm
02-28-2014, 11:50 PM
I think the rcmp used this incident as an excuse to trigger a full on banning of everything they have on their list.

Mad Hatter
02-28-2014, 11:56 PM
"It was never my intention to cause such distress to the firearms community."
But you did.
I think his fate will depend on how all this turns out.
If everyone loses their guns, his name will be Mud.
If the sh**storm causes the re-writing of the Firearms Act, he'll be invited to walk on water at every gun club's BBQ fundraising party.

Perhaps this whole incident will end up being the accidental catalyst that starts the ball rolling towards change. I think that this incident alone has brought more attention to the government on unjust gun laws than anything else up till now.

MasterChaud555
03-01-2014, 12:04 AM
I think we should stop shooting the messenger. I don't personally know JR but from what I understand, He did what any responsible gun owner would do when a firearm looks fishy. Report it to the authorities. He didn't know that this would've happened. I would've done the same thing. Stop blaming him. The man has character for admitting he screwed up. So get over it and move on. That's in the past. Instead look at what you can do to help resolve this situation. Write your MP's and donate to the NFA. I have and I'm sure JR has as well

Mad Hatter
03-01-2014, 12:10 AM
I like JR and I think the timing of both the 858 and Swiss Arms reclassification goes to show unequivocally that the issue is with the RCMP and with the government, not just his actions.



I don't think this one was reclassified. This was discussed several months ago. A recent shipment was simply found to have been made with converted full auto receivers. The sole importer decided to stop further importation and is working with the manufacturer on a new model to become available in the near future. Currently owned 858's are still legal.

Steveo9mm
03-01-2014, 12:14 AM
Currently owned 858's are still legal

am I missing something.... 2007 and up P-2 were just slapped on the prohibited list. forgive me im tired and things are becoming convoluted in my weak exhausted mind.

Camo tung
03-01-2014, 12:22 AM
am I missing something.... 2007 and up P-2 were just slapped on the prohibited list. forgive me im tired and things are becoming convoluted in my weak exhausted mind.

Now I'm confused too. 2005-2006 Tac 2P = ok, 2007 and up Tac 2P's as well as all of the Tac 2V's now prohib....no?

Mad Hatter
03-01-2014, 12:29 AM
858's don't meet the minimum "Scary Looking Factor" for prohibition.

Mad Hatter
03-01-2014, 12:45 AM
Just found this on CGOA. 858's are mentioned.

http://i768.photobucket.com/albums/xx328/myakey/ScreenShot2014-02-28at114011PM_zps91214b98.jpg

Camo tung
03-01-2014, 12:46 AM
858's don't meet the minimum "Scary Looking Factor" for prohibition.

I'm sure I read elsewhere on here that the determination for the Tac 2V's was that the receiver was a reworked VZ58 receiver and in their (CFC) opinion easily converted to full auto. No?

Mad Hatter
03-01-2014, 12:51 AM
Hell. Give anyone a file and an hour and they could convert almost any semi to full.

Camo tung
03-01-2014, 12:56 AM
Hell. Give anyone a file and an hour and they could convert almost any semi to full.

That's the part of this that really burns my ass. AS INSPECTED the rifles are all semi-auto, legal to purchase and own. Converting them to full auto is illegal. Why then all the fuss about "with a certain level of effort this rifle can be modified to full auto" coming from the CFC? That practice is illegal. Deal with each rifle found to be modified and quit assuming all other owners have intentions to make their arms illegal.

Not so nice to find out that despite all of the background checks I'm still deemed to be a risk of committing a crime and can't be trusted.

Steveo9mm
03-01-2014, 12:59 AM
Can I freeze mine in carbonite and hang it on the wall?

Mad Hatter
03-01-2014, 01:04 AM
Can I freeze mine in carbonite and hang it on the wall?

Then it would be classed as a "decommissioned variant". As decommissioned it's legal to own. But being a "variant", not so much. Gobbledeegook. Oh, speaking of which, there is NO legal definition of "variant". It is an RCMP buzz word when they can't find any other excuse.

Steveo9mm
03-01-2014, 01:10 AM
Then it would be classed as a "decommissioned variant". As decommissioned it's legal to own. But being a "variant", not so much. Gobbledeegook. Oh, speaking of which, there is NO legal definition of "variant". It is an RCMP buzz word when they can't find any other excuse.

what if i do a midnight drop off at a goodwill

Camo tung
03-01-2014, 01:31 AM
what if i do a midnight drop off at a goodwill

I'll PM ya my address! :bananna:

Grizz
03-01-2014, 01:40 AM
...


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Sabio
03-01-2014, 02:17 AM
He doesn't care. He wants to make money. He ratted on someone else for taking some of his cake and screwed us all. All $$$$ for him.

No forgiveness for him. He is trying to save face so he can continue to rake in the cash.

He is the enemy.

Et tu, Brute?

ilikemoose
03-01-2014, 02:23 AM
Judas.

Jim Zumbo.

Jr Cox.

Rory McCanuck
03-01-2014, 03:17 AM
^^^Good analogy.

Sabio
03-01-2014, 03:52 AM
I can't wait until J.R comes to Target Sports Again so I can Say Hello and thank him for all his hard work.

Maybe he will tell me who else he rat on.

I said hello the last time he showed up for Targets give me all your money sale. Kinda funny actually.

Forbes/Hutton
03-01-2014, 03:57 AM
I can't wait until J.R comes to Target Sports Again so I can Say Hello and thank him for all his hard work.

Maybe he will tell me who else he rat on.

I said hello the last time he showed up for Targets give me all your money sale. Kinda funny actually.

Ask him where he found a bus with tires big enough to roll over 1,800 people at one time.

speedloader
03-01-2014, 07:13 AM
Jr on a daily basis provides a greater service to the firearms industry then anyone
He runs a Safe facility that allows any one who wants to try shooting first time or experienced to go safley with instruction
and shoot ,Most people then go on to get their licensee and join our community because they had a chance to dispel the BS myths first hand
he is also a former Canadian military sniper who's whole business philosophy is everyone should have the right to own firearms

Now what we need to do is get behind him on this and stop this absolute stomping of our rights

Ben
03-01-2014, 07:19 AM
Jr on a daily basis provides a greater service to the firearms industry then anyone
He runs a Safe facility that allows any one who wants to try shooting first time or experienced to go safley with instruction
and shoot ,Most people then go on to get their licensee and join our community because they had a chance to dispel the BS myths first hand
he is also a former Canadian military sniper who's whole business philosophy is everyone should have the right to own firearms

Now what we need to do is get behind him on this and stop this absolute stomping of our rights

You've GOT to be kidding right?

JR knew exactly what he was doing. He knew exactly what would happen once he opened that file with the RCMP.

speedloader
03-01-2014, 07:49 AM
the fact that he made this video and told the truth should tell you something
he stood up for what he thought was right even though he owns 10 of those rifles personally and stands to loose alot
business or otherwise they just needed an excuse

and if you watch the news from yesterday showing them tossing an old lady down on the ground and cuffing her
because she was standing up for what she believed in same thing they are out of control
and we all need to stand up

Code-Red
03-01-2014, 09:10 AM
Why are you guys bothering with this right now? Stay on track, the focus is RCMP and getting the CPC to at best repeal C-68, at worst overturn these classifications.

Leave the witch hunt until AFTER the dust has settled.

TV-PressPass
03-01-2014, 09:56 AM
"Comments are disabled for this video."

Really? What a surprise!

Ben
03-01-2014, 10:28 AM
"Comments are disabled for this video."

Really? What a surprise!

I really want to know why he disabled them.

leibermuster
03-01-2014, 10:52 AM
I want a Swiss Arms....

444shooter
03-01-2014, 10:55 AM
The problem right now is the RCMP. They are just looking for any excuse to ban firearms.

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CSC
03-01-2014, 11:22 AM
Jr on a daily basis provides a greater service to the firearms industry then anyone
He runs a Safe facility that allows any one who wants to try shooting first time or experienced to go safley with instruction
and shoot ,Most people then go on to get their licensee and join our community because they had a chance to dispel the BS myths first hand
he is also a former Canadian military sniper who's whole business philosophy is everyone should have the right to own firearms

Now what we need to do is get behind him on this and stop this absolute stomping of our rights

Did he tell you he was a former sniper? Because he never was.

When the full story of this fiasco is revealed you might just change your mind about his benefit to shooters.

In the mean time I recommend pushing your politicians to change the Firearm Act. It is absolutely without logic or clarity. This entire fiasco should never have been allowed to happen. That it did shows just how badly drafted and managed the act is.

Grizz
03-01-2014, 11:55 AM
----
When the full story of this fiasco is revealed you might just change your mind about his benefit to shooters.
----

Please educate me as I am not fully versed on what happened.

It seems like he was obligated to report it as a business owner and the RCMP are using this to promote their agenda all while creating a civil war within the gun community.

Seems like ALOT of us are reacting exactly like they want. We've lost focus on the end game to repel C-68 and are now apparently willing to allow the Liberal party to retake command like whiny children who didn't get their way. Whats worse is that we are now eating one of our own because if it!!!! Why should he risk going to jail and loosing his business......

Again if I am wrong, please feel free to fill in the blanks as for now it seems like we need to grow up, disperse the anti smoke screen and keep our focus on C-68.



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Edenchef
03-01-2014, 12:19 PM
Jr on a daily basis provides a greater service to the firearms industry then anyone
He runs a Safe facility that allows any one who wants to try shooting first time or experienced to go safley with instruction
and shoot ,Most people then go on to get their licensee and join our community because they had a chance to dispel the BS myths first hand
he is also a former Canadian military sniper who's whole business philosophy is everyone should have the right to own firearms

Now what we need to do is get behind him on this and stop this absolute stomping of our rights

I have a question. I know nothing about 12.X endorsements on a PAL, but I was under the impression that this only allows someone to possess these "prohibited" class firearms. Is there and endorsement that actually allows someone owning one of these to take it out to a range and shoot them? I didn't think there was. When JR showed up at a group shoot. With not just one.....but three 12.X "prohibs" to shoot; I got a little uncomfortable. Was this legal or just him being a greedy, pompous ass and putting all of us there at risk? What's the saying about "people in glass houses?" Not a very good first impression of the man. JMHO

Cheers!

Haywire1
03-01-2014, 02:41 PM
AFAIK if a business holds a prohib licence, then the business is allowed to bring them to the range.

Prairie Dog
03-01-2014, 02:46 PM
Another inequality of the Firearms Act. A business can use prohibs but an individual can't.

CSC
03-01-2014, 06:33 PM
----
When the full story of this fiasco is revealed you might just change your mind about his benefit to shooters.
----

Please educate me as I am not fully versed on what happened.

It seems like he was obligated to report it as a business owner and the RCMP are using this to promote their agenda all while creating a civil war within the gun community.

Seems like ALOT of us are reacting exactly like they want. We've lost focus on the end game to repel C-68 and are now apparently willing to allow the Liberal party to retake command like whiny children who didn't get their way. Whats worse is that we are now eating one of our own because if it!!!! Why should he risk going to jail and loosing his business......

Again if I am wrong, please feel free to fill in the blanks as for now it seems like we need to grow up, disperse the anti smoke screen and keep our focus on C-68.



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I am not sure whether you are asking for info or not. Here is the back story with documentation http://www.theshootingcentre.com/sans-overview
At this point it seems almost impossible to believe that Cox did not know the rifles were the same. In time we will also be posting proof of this. So what was the rationale behind turning in a gun he knew to be identical to his own? Why was the gun turned into the RCMP before he received an answer to his emailed request for details from Swiss Arms as to its legitimacy? He also objected to the Swiss Arms letter stating the guns were the same after he received it and still insisted he was right and they were wrong.
Even now in his last CBC interview he is insisting that our guns have a different receiver than his. Yet the RCMP in no uncertain terms have concluded that he misled them in 2001 and that his guns were in fact just the same as all the other PE90s in Switzerland. How much evidence needs to be presented before people can see that his motives were anything but legitimate.

Ben
03-01-2014, 08:09 PM
I am not sure whether you are asking for info or not. Here is the back story with documentation http://www.theshootingcentre.com/sans-overview
At this point it seems almost impossible to believe that Cox did not know the rifles were the same. In time we will also be posting proof of this. So what was the rationale behind turning in a gun he knew to be identical to his own? Why was the gun turned into the RCMP before he received an answer to his emailed request for details from Swiss Arms as to its legitimacy? He also objected to the Swiss Arms letter stating the guns were the same after he received it and still insisted he was right and they were wrong.
Even now in his last CBC interview he is insisting that our guns have a different receiver than his. Yet the RCMP in no uncertain terms have concluded that he misled them in 2001 and that his guns were in fact just the same as all the other PE90s in Switzerland. How much evidence needs to be presented before people can see that his motives were anything but legitimate.

Thanks for clearing the air, again, CSC.

Sabio
03-01-2014, 08:46 PM
At this point it seems almost impossible to believe that Cox did not know the rifles were the same. In time we will also be posting proof of this. So what was the rationale behind turning in a gun he knew to be identical to his own? Why was the gun turned into the RCMP before he received an answer to his emailed request for details from Swiss Arms as to its legitimacy? He also objected to the Swiss Arms letter stating the guns were the same after he received it and still insisted he was right and they were wrong.
Even now in his last CBC interview he is insisting that our guns have a different receiver than his. Yet the RCMP in no uncertain terms have concluded that he misled them in 2001 and that his guns were in fact just the same as all the other PE90s in Switzerland. How much evidence needs to be presented before people can see that his motives were anything but legitimate.


Looks like J.R better take a long Vacation to Croatia....or some other non-extradition country...Dubai maybe?

Grizz
03-01-2014, 09:14 PM
Thanks for clearing the air, again, CSC.

Actually, I asked them to "clear the air....again."


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Ben
03-02-2014, 06:42 AM
Actually, I asked them to "clear the air....again."


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I know.

Their link was posted up in another thread, but since it's theirs and they took the time to come in and instead of just copy-pasting it again, wrote another quick note on it, deserves another Thank You.

They've been VERY clear about it on CGN from the start as well.

awndray
03-02-2014, 07:52 AM
You guys are all focusing your anger toward the wrong debate. All of you who are posting in this thread should be writing letters to the PM, the Conservatives, the MP's the media and to everyone who hasn't yet heard of all of this.

mavrik9
03-02-2014, 09:54 AM
You guys are all focusing your anger toward the wrong debate. All of you who are posting in this thread should be writing letters to the PM, the Conservatives, the MP's the media and to everyone who hasn't yet heard of all of this.

I agree with awndray, regardless of what J.R. may or may not have caused we need to stand together and focus on the real issue. We need to continue to work together and keep pressure on the Harper govt. about C-68 and the out of control RCMP.

Ben
03-02-2014, 11:31 AM
You guys are all focusing your anger toward the wrong debate. All of you who are posting in this thread should be writing letters to the PM, the Conservatives, the MP's the media and to everyone who hasn't yet heard of all of this.

Who says that we haven't already dozen of emails and letters already?

JR is part of the problem and should be discussed openly so that everyone is aware as to who kick started this sh!tshow.

As of last night members were posting and asking how this all started so as far as I'm concerned, there's no misdirection of "anger" as you put it.

ilikemoose
03-02-2014, 02:31 PM
In the states, Jim Zumbo, Jerry Tsai, and Dan Cooper got ran out of the firearms industry for far les than what JR Cox did.

Foxer
03-02-2014, 05:36 PM
I like JR and I think the timing of both the 858 and Swiss Arms reclassification goes to show unequivocally that the issue is with the RCMP and with the government, not just his actions.

I can and will vouch for what JR's saying in this video too. He personally donated several thousand dollars worth of products and services to my club for our charity fundraisers over the years and just last year, he personally donated $1500 worth or prizes and ammo to help me setup our youth shooting program.


If Mother Theresa committed murder, it'd still be murder. He did this thing. Perhaps he shouldn't be run completely out of business, but there HAS to be a price for this kind of horrible behavior.


You guys are all focusing your anger toward the wrong debate. All of you who are posting in this thread should be writing letters to the PM, the Conservatives, the MP's the media and to everyone who hasn't yet heard of all of this.

Probably true. All efforts at this time should be directed at our problem - either we win this or lose, and the benefits of winning would be huge and the consequences of losing would be horrible. If you've written a dozen letters, write a dozen more. That is our problem right at this second.

But. There should be a reckoning once we're done. This man did something horrible for greed and envy. Despite any good works of the past, he is CLEARLY not a friend to gun owners when push comes to shove. We'll have to deal with that eventually.

leibermuster
03-02-2014, 10:48 PM
I am not sure whether you are asking for info or not. Here is the back story with documentation http://www.theshootingcentre.com/sans-overview
At this point it seems almost impossible to believe that Cox did not know the rifles were the same. In time we will also be posting proof of this. So what was the rationale behind turning in a gun he knew to be identical to his own? Why was the gun turned into the RCMP before he received an answer to his emailed request for details from Swiss Arms as to its legitimacy? He also objected to the Swiss Arms letter stating the guns were the same after he received it and still insisted he was right and they were wrong.
Even now in his last CBC interview he is insisting that our guns have a different receiver than his. Yet the RCMP in no uncertain terms have concluded that he misled them in 2001 and that his guns were in fact just the same as all the other PE90s in Switzerland. How much evidence needs to be presented before people can see that his motives were anything but legitimate.


Could it be he was just stupid and could not tell the difference?

leibermuster
03-02-2014, 10:52 PM
In the states, Jim Zumbo, Jerry Tsai, and Dan Cooper got ran out of the firearms industry for far les than what JR Cox did.

Yeah really, this is true...

But shouldn't we be running a lot more business out to dry, like say R' Nichols, Bass pro, Sail, those companies all are guilty of cow towing to the anti-gun crowds to save face? How many stores have I seen open up in the last 5 years just to make a quick buck and have been very slow to support NFA and other firearm orgs out there again?

Westicle
03-03-2014, 06:51 AM
Could it be he was just stupid and could not tell the difference?

jr cox is the expert of swiss arms in canada..... he probably had never seen a swiss arms built on a semi auto reciever till he saw the csc one's. according to the backstory all the guns he provided from his own collection where made on converted full auto recievers.

mechanic1908
03-03-2014, 07:35 AM
I wouldn't know jr Cox from a hole in the ground as I've never spent a cent in his establishment.
And after this I never will.
I also find it hard to believe he was in the military, at any level, because one of the things Drilled into you is "its all about the team".
No way do you ever "roll over" on your team. That's exactly what he did by screwing the entire firearms community.
I'm out, please continue writing letters and sending e-mails, I am.

CSC
03-03-2014, 06:25 PM
jr cox is the expert of swiss arms in canada..... he probably had never seen a swiss arms built on a semi auto reciever till he saw the csc one's. according to the backstory all the guns he provided from his own collection where made on converted full auto recievers.

Please don't take this as a measure of support for him but I am certain that SAN never sent any C/A receivers to Canada. It is possible that there are a few guns with right receiver rails with auto sear cut out floating around (I have seen a few), but I think these were just assembled with the wrong part and were never completed as F/A guns, therefore never C/A. JR's level of experience is suspect, as is his subjectivity in assessing the guns in question without a doubt. For anyone with any experience in how SAN assembles rifles, it is common place to see different markings in different places all of the time. It is also not uncommon to see slight manufacturing variances lot to lot. To me, and I don't claim to be the expert JR thinks he is, SAN uses the parts they have available at the time the rifles are built. These small variations don't change the model of rifle, and they don't make them C/A.

Forbes/Hutton
03-03-2014, 06:49 PM
Yeah really, this is true...

But shouldn't we be running a lot more business out to dry, like say R' Nichols, Bass pro, Sail, those companies all are guilty of cow towing to the anti-gun crowds to save face? How many stores have I seen open up in the last 5 years just to make a quick buck and have been very slow to support NFA and other firearm orgs out there again?

Those companies charge too much, or won't sell to you, a lowly civilian, have lousy service and staff, so they just screw you around.

What JR did was F@@k his own customers and other gun-owners. Don't forget, it's not just about possibly loosing the gun or the money paid for it, some owners may not get the word and could face criminal charges under the FA as a result of his actions.

Jarlath
03-04-2014, 08:56 AM
AFAIK if a business holds a prohib licence, then the business is allowed to bring them to the range.

Sure it can. How does that help anyone else except a business?

Haywire1
03-04-2014, 09:01 AM
i was answering a question regarding tse bringing real auto's to the range. never said it helped anyone.

Sabio
03-07-2014, 02:19 AM
J.P put some Drivel up on gun nutz. Lame attempt to save face.

He said call him anything but Greedy. LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The only reason he is in this is to make money and lots of it.

He bought Target Sports not to improve the store. He bought it to rake in the cash ripping off 1000's of Asians who want to shoot guns. That is not racist. That is the truth.
They are booked all day long with rentals. They don;t care about the retail side.

They have 5 guys at the counter all taking care of the renters paying crazy fees. You can stand there 20 minutes wanting to buy a gun and they won;t even look at you.
All the stuff on the wall is for show. That is why they don't advertise on gun nutz like other dealers. J.Q makes so much money he does not have to have specials or post deals.

J.R IS Greedy.

My name is Sebastian J.R. I called you Greedy.

Ben
03-07-2014, 05:12 AM
J.P put some Drivel up on gun nutz. Lame attempt to save face.

He said call him anything but Greedy. LOL HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The only reason he is in this is to make money and lots of it.

He bought Target Sports not to improve the store. He bought it to rake in the cash ripping off 1000's of Asians who want to shoot guns. That is not racist. That is the truth.
They are booked all day long with rentals. They don;t care about the retail side.

They have 5 guys at the counter all taking care of the renters paying crazy fees. You can stand there 20 minutes wanting to buy a gun and they won;t even look at you.
All the stuff on the wall is for show. That is why they don't advertise on gun nutz like other dealers. J.Q makes so much money he does not have to have specials or post deals.

J.R IS Greedy.

My name is Sebastian J.R. I called you Greedy.

Humm...

Is it J.P, J.Q. or J.R ;)

Sabio
03-07-2014, 12:37 PM
Humm...

Is it J.P, J.Q. or J.R ;)

Exactly. Who cares. :)

riderrick
03-07-2014, 02:05 PM
neither of those ex business partners will ever see another dime from me. i was in a group buy on aimpoint t-1 mirco from csc been temped to sell the thing since the beginning of this fiasco. 2 babies whining about each other. should atleast donate profits derived from the sale of san rifles

Ben
03-07-2014, 05:56 PM
neither of those ex business partners will ever see another dime from me. i was in a group buy on aimpoint t-1 mirco from csc been temped to sell the thing since the beginning of this fiasco. 2 babies whining about each other. should atleast donate profits derived from the sale of san rifles

How in god's green earth is CSC remotely responsible for this?

cybershooters
03-21-2014, 04:42 PM
Please don't take this as a measure of support for him but I am certain that SAN never sent any C/A receivers to Canada.

It's academic whether they're CA, that only really matters for grandfathering purposes. He says the receiver of the gun he got in on consignment had the auto sear slot, which means it's a prohibited automatic firearm. On that RCMP and him agree. On everything else however...

cybershooters
03-21-2014, 04:50 PM
How in god's green earth is CSC remotely responsible for this?

Because they apparently imported automatic firearms, and the receiver picture I've seen of a CQB, ESF72702 also shows a TSE import stamp, which I think is probably what set JR off, it's got an auto sear slot and looks like he imported it.

That bit I kind of get frankly, but that's the bit that everyone is criticising him for.

But what CSC is saying is also true.

Forbes/Hutton
03-21-2014, 06:23 PM
What's the "R" stand for?

It's bugging me now that I realized the "J" is for Judas.

CSC
03-25-2014, 10:00 PM
Because they apparently imported automatic firearms, and the receiver picture I've seen of a CQB, ESF72702 also shows a TSE import stamp, which I think is probably what set JR off, it's got an auto sear slot and looks like he imported it.

That bit I kind of get frankly, but that's the bit that everyone is criticising him for.

But what CSC is saying is also true.

No we did not and even JR has reluctantly conceded that fact. We imported used rifles that he felt lacked the correct "lineage". He was wrong. You can conclude he was either not the expert he considered himself to be or that he had some ulterior motive but the end result was he forced the RCMP to look closely at the SAN rifles and they confirmed that they were all PE90s and to them variants of the SG550.

CSC
03-25-2014, 10:02 PM
It's academic whether they're CA, that only really matters for grandfathering purposes. He says the receiver of the gun he got in on consignment had the auto sear slot, which means it's a prohibited automatic firearm. On that RCMP and him agree. On everything else however...
Actually the RCMP disagreed with him. If you read Etter's email he states the CSC gun was a purpose built semi auto.

Mad Hatter
03-25-2014, 10:25 PM
Actually the RCMP disagreed with him. If you read Etter's email he states the CSC gun was a purpose built semi auto.

I missed that letter...

Foxer
03-25-2014, 10:42 PM
What's the "R" stand for?

It's bugging me know that I realized the "J" is for Judas.
reclassified I'd say

CSC
03-26-2014, 01:30 PM
I missed that letter...

http://www.theshootingcentre.com/sans-overview

I have tried to update with all pertinent documents that I can find. If anyone has anything else I would be happy to post it on the site.

cybershooters
04-22-2014, 02:20 PM
No we did not and even JR has reluctantly conceded that fact. We imported used rifles that he felt lacked the correct "lineage". He was wrong. You can conclude he was either not the expert he considered himself to be or that he had some ulterior motive but the end result was he forced the RCMP to look closely at the SAN rifles and they confirmed that they were all PE90s and to them variants of the SG550.

I honestly don't follow your logic, on your website it says the spec of the rifles is "proprietary and closely held" and then in this thread you say that you think Swiss Arms happens to use whatever parts they have lying around - and also that you imported "used rifles".

So which is it, random parts, proprietary parts or used parts? Can't be all three. And on that basis how could you be unaware that they were prohibited firearms under section 83 of the regulations? I mean, something that even vaguely looks like an AK gets classed as an AK, let alone something that is identical or nearly identical.

The impression I get is everyone else involved is trying to point the finger at JR (who clearly is the main responsible party) and not have the finger pointed at them in any way.

What is the reason why the agent for importing these firearms changed so many times? After all, JR was still importing them even after FN Sports and then MD Charleton took over. Possibly a totally innocent reason, but now it looks to an outside observer as though possibly they knew it was a questionable enterprise and they handed it off to someone else.

I'll be completely honest and say that as soon as I saw my Swiss Arms rifle, I knew it was a SG550 and I just assumed that RCMP had either made a mistake or had some logic known only to themselves as to why they were legal. As the FRT isn't public, I had no idea that they had been verified as an SG540 - if I had, I would never have bought one.

Possibly the other importers never checked the FRT either but I find that a little hard to believe.

So now I'm thinking that a lot of other stuff has been verified incorrectly and RCMP still haven't figured it out and that is bad news for gun owners and the gun industry in Canada if that view becomes widespread.

I could sit here all day listing guns that could be say, variants of the XM231S or the AR-10 or the Steyr SPP or the Benelli M1 Super 90, etc. which are listed as restricted or non-restricted in the FRT.

Long story short, I'm not buying anything ever again that is even remotely questionable from a legal standpoint. From now on, I'm going by what it says in the regulations and what I think that means, not what a verifier has told RCMP they think it means.

And the #1 thing I'm going to say to my MP is that the FRT should be made public so we, the gun owning public, can see what something has been verified as before we buy it. That is something they can do quite easily and if verifications are subject to closer scrutiny, then verifications I suspect will be a lot more accurate...

And anyone who disagrees with me - I suggest you look up the Swiss Arms Classic Green Sniper in the FRT and see what it says about that.

Beltfed
04-26-2014, 09:12 AM
When it all boils down an argument could be made that every firearm out there is a derivative or variant of a prohibited weapon. The vague wording of the firearms act is by design, allowing the authors and the RCMP to capture via banning as many firearms as they can going forward.

Strewth
04-26-2014, 10:29 AM
^100% agree. It would be amazing if this was tackled before the election, as it's relevant to the current fiasco and highlights how horribly written these laws are.
Not holding my breath, but one can hope.

CSC
05-01-2014, 11:07 AM
I honestly don't follow your logic, on your website it says the spec of the rifles is "proprietary and closely held" and then in this thread you say that you think Swiss Arms happens to use whatever parts they have lying around - and also that you imported "used rifles".

So which is it, random parts, proprietary parts or used parts? Can't be all three. And on that basis how could you be unaware that they were prohibited firearms under section 83 of the regulations? I mean, something that even vaguely looks like an AK gets classed as an AK, let alone something that is identical or nearly identical.

If you read the documents again I think it is pretty clear. JR and SAN had originally suggested that their rifles were somehow proprietary in order to satisfy the RCMP FRT description. We asked that SAN refurbish ours to meet this standard. Since SAN is the original manufacturer it seems pretty consistent that a used rifle made by them could be refurbished to meet the specs of another rifle. The comments concerning cutouts in right rails is purely speculation on my part to explain the existence of these rails in some random guns ( but none of the guns I imported).
The FRT clearly lists the Classic Green as "AKA" PE90. A PE90 is not an SG550. So clearly it is not listed as prohibited under section 83. Your opinion to the contrary. Furthermore the Mossberg 715 is clearly a restricted rifle based on the same premise you apply here. It looks like an AR15 which makes it as much of a variant as the AP74. Are you suggesting that any distributors cease importation even though the RCMP have issued a non restricted FRT?


The impression I get is everyone else involved is trying to point the finger at JR (who clearly is the main responsible party) and not have the finger pointed at them in any way.
Apparently you feel some responsibility for not reporting the gun to the RCMP when you first obtained one. Below you clearly state that you knew it was an SG550!


What is the reason why the agent for importing these firearms changed so many times? After all, JR was still importing them even after FN Sports and then MD Charleton took over. Possibly a totally innocent reason, but now it looks to an outside observer as though possibly they knew it was a questionable enterprise and they handed it off to someone else.
It may look like that to you, but in fact distribution of products often changes hands over time. In fact during the same time period TSE stopped distributing RUAG, and FN Sports stopped distributing SIG Sauer. Are those lines similarly questionable?


I'll be completely honest and say that as soon as I saw my Swiss Arms rifle, I knew it was a SG550 and I just assumed that RCMP had either made a mistake or had some logic known only to themselves as to why they were legal. As the FRT isn't public, I had no idea that they had been verified as an SG540 - if I had, I would never have bought one.

Possibly the other importers never checked the FRT either but I find that a little hard to believe.

So again by your logic you should have contacted the RCMP immediately? After all it appears that you "knew" the gun was prohibited. Also FWIW the guns were not verified as SG540s they were listed as variants of them. And they are in fact variants although rather distant cousins.


So now I'm thinking that a lot of other stuff has been verified incorrectly and RCMP still haven't figured it out and that is bad news for gun owners and the gun industry in Canada if that view becomes widespread.

I could sit here all day listing guns that could be say, variants of the XM231S or the AR-10 or the Steyr SPP or the Benelli M1 Super 90, etc. which are listed as restricted or non-restricted in the FRT.

Long story short, I'm not buying anything ever again that is even remotely questionable from a legal standpoint. From now on, I'm going by what it says in the regulations and what I think that means, not what a verifier has told RCMP they think it means.

And the #1 thing I'm going to say to my MP is that the FRT should be made public so we, the gun owning public, can see what something has been verified as before we buy it. That is something they can do quite easily and if verifications are subject to closer scrutiny, then verifications I suspect will be a lot more accurate...

And anyone who disagrees with me - I suggest you look up the Swiss Arms Classic Green Sniper in the FRT and see what it says about that.

I think if you review the list of prohibited firearms and the span of the variants listed you might consider not owning any firearms then. How many people realize that the Benelli Super Black Eagle is sort of prohibited? Since a 22 that looks sort of like a restricted rifle or a prohibited rifle is also considered restricted or prohibited, regardless of action type, what 22 rifle is safe? Who decides what features constitute similarity?
Talking to your MP about the specific issues of the firearms act is the only course of action. We need to bring the light of day onto one of the most poorly drafted laws in Canadian history.