PDA

View Full Version : Garage storage



vblimits
03-22-2014, 09:11 PM
hey guys i am just getting my first gun in years. got me a gun safe. now i don't really have a good place in my house. so my plan is to build a room in my 2 car garage plywood walls good heavy door 2 deadbolts gun safe in the room. no is this legal or what?

-Ian

harbl_the_cat
03-22-2014, 09:24 PM
Maybe it's legal, maybe it's not. No one knows and these days the way the RCMP are randomly interpreting regulations and making up new ones, there's no way to say for sure.

I called my lawyer (and suggest you do the same) but he said as long as you can clearly demonstrate being in compliance with the regulations concerning safe storage, attached or detached garage storage is fine (yes, I know that contradicts what everyone says about detached garages).

He also said to take as many pictures and itemize how exactly you store what and where - because if it came to court, that just might save your bass.

Sorry that's not much help, but again, I'd say ask a lawyer who practices in firearms law.

blacksmithden
03-22-2014, 09:57 PM
You don't need to build a room around the safe for it to be legal. If your guns are locked up in said safe and said safe is inside your residence, including the garage, you're legal.

Edenchef
03-22-2014, 10:49 PM
But just in case the LEO's want to try and break you by laying frivolous charges......I recommend $95/year legal defence insurance. It's nice to have a level playing field, these days.

Cheers!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

BrotherRockeye
03-22-2014, 11:21 PM
you know there's something wrong when you need insurance against the police...

Edenchef
03-22-2014, 11:34 PM
I totally agree, but we have all seen it happen, before. I do think that since this(insurance) has become available, there have been fewer, frivolous lawsuits. I think this has been a great way that the gun owners community have fought back, as a unit, against unfair manipulation of the legal system by LEO's. Anybody got numbers on this?

Cheers!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

vblimits
03-22-2014, 11:34 PM
Thanks guys, i know its a bit stupid with the RCMP and the like the way they are. and that was as good an answer as i was expecting to get :). i am building the room 8 foot by 8 foot, its going to be my "gun room", reloading, storage, smithing room. i have 2 young kids so it will also help keep them safe as it will be that much harder to get at ANYTHING gun related (i am going to teach them dont worry just like my family did for me years ago), but it will keep them safe when i am not looking (as well as the safe).
no in said room how should i store the components to be well above the law? i was thinking of build a plywood cuberd for the powder/primers (with a lock) would that be enough to be "Safe".

thanks for the speedy reply, once the weather here gets a bit nicer i am going to start building my little room :)

-Ian

harbl_the_cat when you say lots of pictures what exacly do you mean? just of everything as i store it? as in open the safe take picture of the guns, with trigger locks on them and the ammo in a locked box bolts removed all that kind of thing just so i can show how i store them?

Edenchef yea i was planing on getting that "insurance". i miss shooting so much but all this "bull$hit" almost makes me not want anything to do with it.

Steveo9mm
03-23-2014, 06:37 AM
Just sit all the rcmp down and make them watch all of civil advantages videos....

BrotherRockeye
03-23-2014, 08:36 AM
there are regs on the sight some place vblimits...you need an explosives sticker on your "wooden" storage container, bla bla bla...;D

Claidemore
03-23-2014, 09:23 AM
Read this: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-209/page-1.html

vblimits
03-23-2014, 02:35 PM
thanks guys :), i am having problems finding the "suggested" ammo/component storage thread that BrotherRockeye mentioned. any suggestions as were to look?

thanks

-Ian

Tactical72
03-23-2014, 03:41 PM
I believe ammo is covered in the explosives act. I'm not sure about storage, but it does list maximum allowable quantities.

CF_Smith
03-23-2014, 05:29 PM
I believe ammo is covered in the explosives act. I'm not sure about storage, but it does list maximum allowable quantities.

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/PDF/E-17.pdf

the word Ammunition is not once mentioned. I did a quick search and there doesn't appear to be any laws on storage to ammunition, the only mention being the firearm cannot be stored easily accessible to the ammunition. Which is shady as F@#$. That being said, I'm no lawyer, but I think anything with a lock on it would suffice.

vblimits
03-23-2014, 05:55 PM
i was just about to post the same thing as you CF_Smith, man this getting frustrating, i think when i am done ill post some links to the regs if i ever find them..
i did find this

http://firearmslaw.ca/gun-law-resources/firearms-legislation/explosives-act/

vblimits
03-23-2014, 05:56 PM
it would seem they call it a Safty Cart
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2013-211/page-63.html#s-190

vblimits
03-23-2014, 06:19 PM
ok making progress here.
Explosives act 2013 page 196 smokeless powder black powder and percussion caps
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/PDF/SOR-2013-211.pdf

ok wow they dont make this easy to fallow like really
its seems we can store ALOT of smokeless in your detached like 25kg in its original container. and less then 10kg of black. section 301 so thats good for me lol never going to have that much

heres a note that i find strange.
304.2(f)
"nothing other then small arms cartridges may be stored with the propellant powder, percussion caps or black powder cartouches;" that sounds to me like you CANT store it in your gun safe with your guns.
304.2(e) states all shelfs must be made from wood or painted metal
finely
304.2(l) a sign that displays the words "danger -- fire hazard/risque d'incendie" in letters at least 10cm high and that prohibits smoking using letters, or a symbol, at least 10cm high must be posted on the storage unit in a clearly visible location."

well there we have it.

also must be locked if unlocked is to be "attended", also you havto keep primers/caps, powder, and loaded carts separated by a shelf or wood barrier (section 304.2(g))

303 states the max quantity of propellant in a detached storage unit to be 75kg, no my garage is detached would that mean i can store 75kg? (i know thats total as in all loaded rounds and powder in kegs)

ok last edit
page 195 section 297 to 304 is what you need to read and understand for storing ammo and its components

vblimits
03-23-2014, 06:38 PM
well they define a storage unit as
“storage unit” means a building, structure,
place or container in which * explosives are
stored and that is not licensed. However, it
does not include a dwelling or any struc-
ture, place or container in a dwelling.

somehow that doesn't help me decide if a detached garage is a storage unit or not lol

BrotherRockeye
03-23-2014, 06:54 PM
that was easy, no?
welcome to the world of a Canadian firearms owner, where knowing the law is harder than complying with it and changes depending on who reads it :)

I have a wooden cabinet with wooden shelves and brass hardware with an orange explosives sticker on it...
It's full and I'm happy...

Haywire1
03-23-2014, 07:25 PM
the storage unit(building, structure,
place or container in which * explosives are
stored and that is not licensed.) basically applies to demolition contractors etc, not home re-loaders.

vblimits
03-23-2014, 08:51 PM
the storage unit(building, structure,
place or container in which * explosives are
stored and that is not licensed.) basically applies to demolition contractors etc, not home re-loaders.
i disagree with this,

Unlicensed user 298. A user who does not hold a licence
must store their propellant powder, percus-
sion caps and black powder cartouches in a
dwelling or a * storage unit and ensure that
the requirements of sections 299 to 304 are
met.
page 195 of http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/PDF/SOR-2013-211.pdf

and so my question is this, would my detached garage count as part of my dwelling or could i call it a storage unit?
also i know you guys are just like me, so who SHOULD i ask for a should be 100% correct answer on this?

Haywire1
03-23-2014, 09:10 PM
quite honestly, every person I know that reloads usually has a room in the basement, that they keep the powder, primers etc in on shelves. Noone that I know of has ever gone to this much effort. I get trying to find out, I am just saying noone that I know of has bothered, or had and issue legally speaking( charged, inspected etc) including a couple that had fire damage from wild fires and had the fire dept in their houses. again, just an fyi and maybe some of the heavy reloaders will chime in. I would suspect the person to contact would be a lawyer tbh

vblimits
03-23-2014, 09:53 PM
yea i have a bad habit of over analysing things. but i also dont what to have any problems LOL. i likely would never have 25kg, but still dont want a problem lol

-Ian

Strewth
03-23-2014, 10:14 PM
Wooden box, brass (non-ferrous) fittings so there's no "danger" of an errant spark.
From the CSSA page:
http://www.cdnshootingsports.org/legal_info_for_reloaders.html

Makes sense, but still. Sigh.

vblimits
03-23-2014, 10:51 PM
aa now thanks Strewth, but now i need to know if my insurance wont freak out over powder lol. I JUST WANT TO SHOOT. like really this is stupid.
lol
thanks though guys vary helpful.

ill upload some pictures in the next few mounths when i get her built.

Mad Hatter
03-23-2014, 10:59 PM
you know there's something wrong when you need insurance against the police...

I need insurance: To own my guns. To own my house. To drive my car. To have a business. To have health care. To get a loan. To have a mortgage. To hire employees. For personal injury. In case I die. To do work for other businesses.

Yes. There's most definitely something wrong.

BrotherRockeye
03-24-2014, 08:34 AM
off topic yes...fueled by the duck in the fedora...definitely.

...more than most forms of insurance, mortgage insurance is a complete rip off. The policy value decreases as you pay in. Whoever thought that one up was a genius ripoff artist of the highest order...kudos.

Strewth
03-24-2014, 11:18 AM
aa now thanks Strewth, but now i need to know if my insurance wont freak out over powder lol. I JUST WANT TO SHOOT. like really this is stupid.
lol
thanks though guys vary helpful.

ill upload some pictures in the next few mounths when i get her built.

Most insurance places don't freak about reloading equipment, if yours does, find another. And really they shouldn't, smokeless powder is far less spectacular than blackpowder as an incendiary/explosive/thingy that makes fire quick.

vblimits
03-24-2014, 05:27 PM
smokeless powder is far less spectacular than black powder as an incendiary/explosive/thingy that makes fire quick.
yep i agree with you 100% but we know they likely don't lol they hear gun powder or anything like it and they think boom were we think oo pretty colors

@BrotherRockeye my mortgage insurance stays the same value till i change it then my rate changes (or you can just leave it at the starting value and if needed get it all)

-Ian

BrotherRockeye
03-24-2014, 06:47 PM
More specifically then, mortgage "life" insurance...where co owners are insured for the balance of the mortgage in the event of the others death...

vblimits
03-24-2014, 06:54 PM
yep thats exacly what i am talking about, we did get a quate from the other type and i said there must be some one less fu$ked in the head so i found another..

bccanadian
04-12-2014, 02:15 AM
Another definite source of info would be to contact the NFA. I'm sure they have researched this from every angle and if they aren't sure, they will tell you it's "just and opinion".