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Drache
04-06-2012, 10:03 AM
Simply put, after calling up the CFP and asking if one has been submitted to them to test and figure out if it's prohibited or not, I was told they had one submitted to them awhile back and they would email me their findings.


The product known as the SSAR-15 Slide Fire manufactured by Slide Fire Solutions, falls under the ambit of the Regulations appended to The Criminal Code Part III, Section 84 - PART 4, Prohibited Devices, paragraph 1.

"Any electrical or mechanical device that is designed or adapted to operate the trigger mechanism of a semi automatic firearm for the purpose of causing the firearm to discharge cartridges in rapid succession".

The Slide Fire device is a "prohibited device". For this reason you do not see the SSAR-15 Slide Fire manufactured by Slide Fire Solutions offered for sale in Canada.

Hope this helps.

William Etter

William (Bill) Etter
Senior Firearms Technologist
Specialized Firearms Support Services
Firearms Investigative & Enforcement Services Directorate
RCMP - CFP
Policing Support Services

613-993-6684

So I fired back a reply just to see if they'll clarify why it falls under that ruling if it doesn't effect the trigger mechanism and if it doesn't have any mechanical workings.

cyclone
04-11-2012, 03:36 PM
"Any electrical or mechanical device that is designed or adapted to operate the trigger mechanism of a semi automatic firearm for the purpose of causing the firearm to discharge cartridges in rapid succession".

That in no way applies to the slide-fire stock....:(

Drache
04-11-2012, 04:39 PM
That in no way applies to the slide-fire stock....:(

Sadly you're right but they get to make the rules until one of us becomes rich enough to fight it in court :(

mouthpiece
06-08-2012, 07:43 AM
To fight this an analysis is needed, but who will decide if Etter is correct? By the RCMP declaring the deice prohibited none can be legally imported to test, all imports will be seized, then a hearing before the Customs board would be heard on the nature of the item. But that ruling will not determine if the item is within the law or still subject to a criminal code charge upon importation.

The BIG problem is there is no method to challenge the decisions of police aside from a criminal court disagreeing with their interpretations. There is no body for the purpose of determining whether a deice is prohibited.

OutdoorPursuitsCanada
06-08-2012, 08:13 AM
You can appeal seized prohibted devices through Canada customs (CBSA) up to two times - but most likely will get nowhere.

Drache
06-08-2012, 08:25 AM
To fight this an analysis is needed, but who will decide if Etter is correct? By the RCMP declaring the deice prohibited none can be legally imported to test, all imports will be seized, then a hearing before the Customs board would be heard on the nature of the item. But that ruling will not determine if the item is within the law or still subject to a criminal code charge upon importation.

The BIG problem is there is no method to challenge the decisions of police aside from a criminal court disagreeing with their interpretations. There is no body for the purpose of determining whether a deice is prohibited.

Technically just because the RCMP states it's prohibited doesnt mean the CBSA states it is. There are a number of slidefire stocks in Canada already because of this reason. Granted this might have changed lately though.

jrcbecher
06-09-2012, 04:57 PM
Sad! So what happened to not guilty until foumd guilty in a court of law, we are fast becoming a police state with NO due process. The RCMP the CFO"S and local police are crossing the line daily and there aim is for the most part the sport shooter and sport man who tries to fill his freezer every fall rather than the street gang or B/E thief .Its time the police work the streets and go after the fences and dope dealers .pimps and gangs with guns and earn the respect of the sport shooter again.

hillbillyr
06-09-2012, 06:32 PM
It is not a police state, it is an oligarchy of unelected bureaucrats wrestling power away from our elected representatives the same as in the USA. This was started decades ago and I believe is starting to reach it's crescendo. The police, with the exception of high level bureaucrats within the police are not at fault. I recently had a conversation with a detachment supervisor about just how hamstrung they are trying to work within our current system. It is much, much worse than even I had imagined. Police on the streets are only as effective as the system they work within, when shooters themselves start agreeing with the insanity that are our laws, how can anyone expect a police officer to disagree?

The problem is in the mirror figuratively speaking, unless people open thier eyes and minds it will get worse, much, much worse.

jrcbecher
06-09-2012, 11:12 PM
I can look in a mirror and I was not the problem its a two way mirror as I see it the police have a very serious attitude they have to take the lawful guys first. They get some headlines then call in the army like in Mexico to clean up the drug and gangs that has been beyond their level of competence.The gangs should of been first as their record is much worse than mine as a gun owner but the risk was to great. Don't it make you feel safe.PS CFO'S defies an act of Parliament ques we know why this cop sleeps on his tummy aka bad back cant stand up for anything

hillbillyr
06-10-2012, 09:40 AM
I wasn't referring to you looking on the mirror but the vast majority of Canadians and more specifically Canadian gun owners who actually believe our current system prevents criminals from getting guns and keeps our streets safe. They love the nanny system and want it to stay because many of them feel special that the government "allows" or "trusts" them to have a gun. To bad they don't realize it is a ruse, the government does not trust them at all, in fact the government has set up the system specifically to target them all the while knowing no one is made safer. In fact everyone is made less safe because of gun laws. It is a proven fact.

I believe other wise law abiding people are unfairly and unjustly targeted specifically because it improves conviction rates. Criminals know the system and how not to incriminate themselves and how to capitalize on the smallest of police infringements on thier rights or procedure, things an other wise law abiding person would never possibly know. The police use the same tactics on both criminal and otherwise non criminal but the otherwise honest people and gun owners fall into the traps the criminals do not.

Then we get to the crown, there things can take on a decidedly malevolent slant full of personal and political agenda's.

Certain CFO's need to be removed, but can they be? I doubt it.

chronicelite
03-10-2013, 04:16 PM
Any update on this? Is it still illegal to purchase, import and/or POSSESS a slide fire stock? Would I get in big trouble if I had one of these on my rifle?

Haywire1
03-10-2013, 04:28 PM
Any update on this? Is it still illegal to purchase, import and/or POSSESS a slide fire stock? Would I get in big trouble if I had one of these on my rifle?

afraid so, it is still illegal to do any of the above. at the moment, this is pretty far down on the list of things to fight I believe. Scrapping the CFO's. removing mag limits, and ATT's being near the top.

lone-wolf
03-10-2013, 04:30 PM
afraid so, it is still illegal to do any of the above. at the moment, this is pretty far down on the list of things to fight I believe. Scrapping the CFO's. removing mag limits, and ATT's being near the top.

ATTs probably be easiest, considering the minority conservatives tried to pass a bill to kill it.
The only thing that has changed since then is they now have a majority.

YukonLeftie
03-10-2013, 06:11 PM
ATTs probably be easiest, considering the minority conservatives tried to pass a bill to kill it.
The only thing that has changed since then is they now have a majority.

And no apparent incentive to do it.

Strewth
03-11-2013, 12:17 AM
^I'm going to wait until after CFO Wyatt's hash has been settled before offering any disparaging remarks....we've got the CPC for a couple more years, mid-term is when I'd like to see some more positive change in the Firearms Act, so not too much hay can be made about it come election time by the opposition.
Tom Mulcair: "A year ago, ATT's were scrapped and....and...well, it was bad. Trust me, I'm the NDP."

Maybe Wyatt will be the impetuous needed to "Form a committee to investigate the feasibility of downsizing the CFOs..." and that will be the item given to firearms owners before the next election? Baby steps...

YukonLeftie
03-11-2013, 01:19 PM
I point out that it was not baby steps that gort us here - it literally was the sweeping actions of a PM who, for better or worse, was ballsy and/or commited enough to declare martial law to deal with terrorists. Sorry, but I have *never* seen harper or any in his cabinet have anything remotely close to that level of commitment. (Note - I'm not praising s***head senior; but I am observing that in the face of a confirmed violent internal threat, he acted - and put a sudden stop to said violence. And, for all the griping we do - none of us would go blowing up innocents to make our point. The FQ psychos did. )

Strewth
03-11-2013, 03:03 PM
Slidefire stocks have a spring in them; a mechanical device.

Drache
03-11-2013, 03:53 PM
Slidefire stocks have a spring in them; a mechanical device.

No they don't. That's why they are NOT a mechanical device accord to the BATF.

Mikthaniel
03-11-2013, 04:00 PM
Internals of a slidefire stock...

http://www.tjgeneralstore.com/slidecnvkit775yyu8.jpg

blaxsun
03-11-2013, 04:02 PM
Any update on this? Is it still illegal to purchase, import and/or POSSESS a slide fire stock? Would I get in big trouble if I had one of these on my rifle?

I guess there's only one way to find out, right? ;)

Mikthaniel
03-11-2013, 04:09 PM
Nice video here, the spring internals are for a specific conversion kit.

The regular kit has no spring, is just a hollow shaft, your foregrip arm becomes the spring...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTSNscULt28

Strewth
03-11-2013, 04:43 PM
No they don't. That's why they are NOT a mechanical device accord to the BATF.

I know, I just wanted to get back on topic:)

ReignCzech
03-11-2013, 04:45 PM
In no way does the stock operate the trigger mechanism.
( regardless of RCMP, and Gov't beaurocratic interpretation/control/micromanaging of the law, B.S. )
It is a bump-fire assisting stock, nothing more.
The user's trigger finger is the device that makes and breaks contact/control of the trigger, never can a user trigger finger be categorized as a prohibited device.

The stock is fun ( with a 30, 60, 100 rnd mag, expensive however for the "thrill" it assists in giving ), but for a 5 or 10 rnd magazine bump fire burst, it really isn't much use, other than the feel and action it assist's in mimicking for the user.
The stock is sloppy on a mil-spec buffer tube, in all directions.
Not much use/ accuracy with a scope.
Not much use/ accuracy with iron sights.
minimal use/ accuracy with a hologhraphic sight, (i.e. eotech )
user's POA changes with each bump fire, able to get a beaten zone/ cone of fire on a target ( fig 11, fig 12 etc. ) and user has to utilize their fore-end hand for control, which is a bit odd to the senses.

Mikthaniel
03-11-2013, 05:04 PM
And it's REALLY hard to get the timing right for a 3-shot burst fire mode... LOL

Drache
03-11-2013, 05:13 PM
The stock is sloppy on a mil-spec buffer tube, in all directions.

never had any play at all that I noticed. They are made for mil-spec stocks and state not to be used with commercial tubes.


Not much use/ accuracy with a scope.

no fully automatic rifle does....


Not much use/ accuracy with iron sights.

Not too bad although with a nice RDS it was ok.

ReignCzech
03-22-2013, 10:45 AM
never had any play at all that I noticed. They are made for mil-spec stocks and state not to be used with commercial tubes.

the gen1 slidefire I wrote of is sloppy on the mil-spec diameter buffer tube. both gen1 and gen2 slide-fire stocks won't fit on the larger diameter commercial tube, without modification.
I have not used a gen2 slidefire stock, however a fair amount of reports and writings of it indicate they are looser fitting than the gen1.



no fully automatic rifle does....
Really? I've fired extensively ( certainly many others have also) with multiple full automatic rifles, smg's and mg's with magnified sights, magnified hollowgraphic/RDS's, and scopes with relatively high rating of and far greater accuracy than what a user with an AR and or AK rifle with the slide-fire stock affixed, can/could achieve.



Not too bad although with a nice RDS it was ok.
I can agree with this statement, yet at close ranges only, beyond 25m range the MPI was all over and off the fig11's and fig12's. at 50m @ less than half the rounds on target, at 100m low fractional hits on target.

Found when used with a dedicated .22lr upper, the results were improved, yet beyond 25m it was as useless as with 5.56/.223, and 7.62x39 uppers on the AR.

I will have to admit, it's fun to shoot with, rather odd to accustomed to using the forehand for control, spray and pray, with surefire 60 rnd mags, 100 rnd beta c drum mags, and the 150 round armatac drums, for the few seconds of thrill.