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View Full Version : July 23 2014 announcement is only an increased amnesty



mouthpiece
07-23-2014, 02:12 PM
The increased use allowed by the new amnesty is not the same as returning the CZ858 to pre FRT changes. More needs to be done and the class action continues.

Cozs
07-23-2014, 02:16 PM
Good.

Lets not forget that in 2 years the amnesty is gone and you lose these rifles.

JRW (QOR)
07-23-2014, 03:10 PM
They have come this far with the new changes, they wont be confiscating our SA/Cz. The new Act will fix it, and any further reclassifications by the RCMP.

RangeBob
07-23-2014, 03:27 PM
The new Act will fix it.
The proposal doesn't fix sales.
It hasn't brought the Swiss Arms Owners to the rights and privileges they had before the prohibition.

mouthpiece
07-23-2014, 03:30 PM
Correct there is still a long road ahead.

parrnan
07-24-2014, 05:00 PM
Hi.

I have a CZ 858 Tactical-2 V and I'm wondering where is written the manufactured year on the gun? I've been looking everywhere and I cannot find anything looking like 2005 or 2006 or 2007 etc.

Thanks !

parrnan
07-25-2014, 11:08 AM
Hi.

I have a CZ 858 Tactical-2 V and I'm wondering where is written the manufactured year on the gun? I've been looking everywhere and I cannot find anything looking like 2005 or 2006 or 2007 etc.

Thanks !

I guess I found it, on the left side of the sight block there is a weird mark followed by 09 so I guess it is a 2009... So it is a prohibited one. I hope that minister Blaney will find a permanent fix so we can keep our semi-auto only CZ858!

Here is few pictures of the rifle with it excessively extra long barrel...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/parrnan/VZ-58Crosseplieacutee.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/parrnan/media/VZ-58Crosseplieacutee.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/parrnan/VZ-58crosseouverte.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/parrnan/media/VZ-58crosseouverte.jpg.html)

Strewth
07-25-2014, 11:24 AM
I guess I found it, on the left side of the sight block there is a weird mark followed by 09 so I guess it is a 2009... So it is a prohibited one. I hope that minister Blaney will find a permanent fix so we can keep our semi-auto only CZ858!



Yes it's one of the affected ones, I believe we have a Sticky in the SA/CZ858 forum, or perhaps the Red Rifle forum?

I believe we will see more positive change with these rifles, but they need to be de-prohibited, which we have no legal provision for, yet.

Nice rifle! I think we have a couple photo threads that you could put your pic in as well:).

zoomer
07-25-2014, 01:34 PM
Remember to transport them as a prohibited class firearm.That is double locked with either a trigger lock or a locking cable through the action and inside a locked case that you can't see into when transporting to the range and back home again.

parrnan
07-27-2014, 06:20 PM
For those of you who wants to see the difference between a fully auto VZ58 and a CZ858 receiver here are some pictures. The only similar part is the "safe", all other parts have been altered and cannot be used.

SA CZ858 receiver
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/parrnan/CZ858Receiverwithtriggerassembly.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/parrnan/media/CZ858Receiverwithtriggerassembly.jpg.html)

FA VZ58 receiver
___ http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/parrnan/FAVZ58Receiverwithtriggerassembly.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/parrnan/media/FAVZ58Receiverwithtriggerassembly.jpg.html)

As you can see all parts (except the "safe") have been altered and two steel blocks have been welded into the CZ858 receiver making it impossible to convert into an hypothetical FA CZ858.

It is not simple and fast to perform that hypothetical transformation contrarily to what the RCMP is saying.. In fact, for law abiding citizens like us it impossible to do it.

That is why the CZ858 reclassification has to be reversed!

Gaidheal
07-28-2014, 03:20 AM
Same should be true for any converted FA. A semi is a semi regardless of how it got that way, and it is already illegal to convert to FA.

parrnan
07-28-2014, 08:56 AM
Same should be true for any converted FA. A semi is a semi regardless of how it got that way, and it is already illegal to convert to FA.

Indeed! So, for example, semi-auto AK47 should also be legal, restricted (based on barrel length) but legal. Is it what you mean?

Gaidheal
07-28-2014, 02:25 PM
Absolutely!

Although I might even suggest that barrel length is of no concern, but one step at a time. If I had to choose between those two fights, I'd leave barrel length for round two.

:)

:shoot:

parrnan
07-28-2014, 05:50 PM
Absolutely!

Although I might even suggest that barrel length is of no concern, but one step at a time. If I had to choose between those two fights, I'd leave barrel length for round two.

:)

:shoot:

I totally share your point of view. It is good to see that I'm not alone thinking this way.

Foxer
07-28-2014, 07:26 PM
The proposal doesn't fix sales.
It hasn't brought the Swiss Arms Owners to the rights and privileges they had before the prohibition.

Yes it does - it just says the permanent fix requires legislative changes and that will be happening in the fall. The amnesty doesn't solve anything, but it wasn't really supposed to - there's only so much you can do with regulation changes. It was just a show of good faith and to let guys use their guns for now.

CivilAdvantage
07-29-2014, 05:08 PM
Here's the text of an email I got from the Firearm Center in BC:
http://youtu.be/loJzAGu_n-E?list=UUcn7Oe7reBBP-aVhzaqTE0A

Strewth
07-29-2014, 07:40 PM
^:(.

Thank you for taking the time to make this video, and clarifying what, at least in BC, you feel is the proper course of action at this time.
This question will probably get it's own thread, but:
The PSM clearly stated the rifles could be used as before. Is this the CFO interpreting his statement as they wish?

Foxer
07-29-2014, 11:38 PM
The PSM clearly stated the rifles could be used as before. Is this the CFO interpreting his statement as they wish?

No, but they are not our only enemy.

The law would have been drawn up by bureaucrats, acting on his orders. I suspect that there was a 'slight misunderstanding' as to what he said and what they wrote, and he didn't realize that they'd been restricted to the range only. We should point this out to him.

You may recall - when the first draft of the bill to kill the gun registry was supposed to be tabled, they had to delay it for a week because they found out that when the bill was written an 'error' along the way had added some things which weren't supposed to be in there, and the whole run had to be pulped and re-done.

This happens. This is why we dont' like making large complex changes all at once.

x0ra
07-30-2014, 02:36 AM
The proposal doesn't fix sales.
It hasn't brought the Swiss Arms Owners to the rights and privileges they had before the prohibition.
AFAIU, it didn't. Nobody can go hunting or shooting on crown land with the previously non-restricted versions...

x0ra
07-30-2014, 02:38 AM
No, but they are not our only enemy.
CFOs are our enemies. They are the personification of the bureaucratic bs of the Firearm Act.

Haywire1
07-30-2014, 06:43 AM
Foxer never said they weren't. He simply stated they were not our only enemies.

Foxer
07-30-2014, 09:15 AM
CFOs are our enemies. They are the personification of the bureaucratic bs of the Firearm Act.

Yes, they are but as was mentioned what I was saying is they are not our ONLY enemies.

x0ra
07-30-2014, 10:40 AM
Yes, they are but as was mentioned what I was saying is they are not our ONLY enemies.
Fair point.

I'll blame this on the fact I missed the "only" due to remaining vapors of WD-40 and other gun cleaning chemical in my brain after cleaning a rifle :-)

Foxer
07-30-2014, 04:06 PM
I'll blame this on the fact I missed the "only" due to remaining vapors of WD-40 and other gun cleaning chemical in my brain after cleaning a rifle :-)

That'll happen. :) Also acceptable would have been "I switched to decaffeinated today".

CLW .45
08-01-2014, 11:41 AM
This was sent this morning


Steven

In reviewing the amnesty I have come to the following conclusion.

The order amending the order was written by persons who were not aware that unrestricted rifles are used in hunting and shooting activities far from clubs and shooting ranges approved under section 29.

That is the only explanation, short of gross incompetence, that would explain why you were told that section 1 (e) allows owners of these rifles to use them as they did before.

Section 1 (e) of the amended order restricts the owners to "use the firearm in target practice or at a target shooting competition, under the auspices of a shooting club or at shooting range approved under section 29."

That clearly does not allow the hunting and shooting activities in which these people engaged before the reclassification.

As hunting season will be upon us in short order, immediate steps should be taken to rectify this error.

I would appreciate the opportunity to review the new order to amend the amnesty prior to it being enacted, to ensure that it is properly written.

Thank you for your assistance in this manner.

parrnan
08-18-2014, 12:56 PM
Few minutes ago I received a letter from the Sureté du Québec (Quebec provincial police), from Quebec CFO Isabelle Boudreault in fact, informing me about the RCMP reclassification of CZ858 and Swiss Arms. The letter says that according Minister Blaney July 23th intervention the reclassified rifles can be used only in a firing range that accept prohibited guns. As there is not a single firing range that accept these guns in Quebec that means in reality that we can keep the guns until the end of the two years amnesty but we cannot do anything with them... That is not what Minister Blaney said in his July 23th press conference if I remember well. By the way my CZ858 was an unrestricted rfiles when I bought it, so to use it like before the RCMP reclassification should means to use it for hunting, which is what I've done before.

But, why the hell is the Sureté du Québec is spending their time and our money sending letters to every Quebec CZ858 and Swiss Arms owners (thanks to the bloody long guns registry abolished in Canada but obviously not in Quebec) for a wrong decision from the RCMP, a decision that should be permanently reversed this fall by a new bill from Minister Blaney? What a waste of our money!

Foxer
08-18-2014, 08:14 PM
But, why the hell is the Sureté du Québec is spending their time and our money sending letters to every Quebec CZ858 and Swiss Arms owners (thanks to the bloody long guns registry abolished in Canada but obviously not in Quebec) for a wrong decision from the RCMP, a decision that should be permanently reversed this fall by a new bill from Minister Blaney? What a waste of our money!

Well they don't REALLY like us you know.

parrnan
08-18-2014, 09:34 PM
Well they don't REALLY like us you know.

Yes I know, but it is not a reason to waste our money. The police is supposed to "serve and protect" honest citizens like us, instead of that they do everyting they can to antagonize us.

Foxer
08-18-2014, 10:04 PM
Yes I know, but it is not a reason to waste our money. The police is supposed to "serve and protect" honest citizens like us, instead of that they do everyting they can to antagonize us.

They might not see it that way.

I'm pretty sure that they think 'long term' everyone will be better off if they can wipe us out. ANd anything that makes us miserable contributes to that in their minds.

parrnan
08-19-2014, 08:49 AM
They might not see it that way.

I'm pretty sure that they think 'long term' everyone will be better off if they can wipe us out. ANd anything that makes us miserable contributes to that in their minds.

I guess you are right. The police obviously prefer an unarmed society. A society in which only them and the military have guns. I always tought that the police would like a fascist society and their actions do not get me wrong...

Considering them as "friends" would be a mistake I guess.

Foxer
08-19-2014, 09:11 AM
I guess you are right. The police obviously prefer an unarmed society. A society in which only them and the military have guns. I always tought that the police would like a fascist society and their actions do not get me wrong...

Considering them as "friends" would be a mistake I guess.
To a point. Many police officers get in for all the right reasons. I have 3 cousins serving and they're all pretty good guys. although the youngest once commented that he'd like to get transferred to traffic enforcement and the other two looked at each other and said "we'd rather have a sister who's a hooker". :)

But you need to understand a little psychology to realize how this can go in their minds. This is how it often progresses over a period of years."MY job is to protect the public. Gee, i sure notice that the public is difficult to protect if I can't control what's happening. The more control I have, the easier it is to protect the public. If I had complete control, I could protect the public much much better. My job is to control the public. "

Which is why they support less requirements for warrants, more 'no knock' searches, why they want the ability to read people's emails and such without warrant, etc etc etc. If they could do anything they wanted and could tell us to do anything they wanted - they could FINALLY keep us safe.

You will see the same theme in gov't's of all levels. I see it regularly.

It's a natural human thought process and like i say it can occur over many years (tho not always). There's variations and flavours but it comes back to essentially the same thing. And here's the thing to remember - IT STARTED OFF WITH THE HONEST DESIRE TO SERVE. These are rarely bad people who've taken over, theyr'e good people who lost their focus at some point.

And that is why you were taught that police would prefer a totalitarian state. It is the natural progression for those who want to serve unless they catch that early on. They will force us to do what they KNOW is right, because they want to serve. And the BEST way to serve is to provide for our every need themselves and not leave it up to us. That is, unfortunately, also the best way to enslave a man.

We just have to keep that in mind.

parrnan
08-19-2014, 10:27 AM
To a point. Many police officers get in for all the right reasons. I have 3 cousins serving and they're all pretty good guys. although the youngest once commented that he'd like to get transferred to traffic enforcement and the other two looked at each other and said "we'd rather have a sister who's a hooker". :)

But you need to understand a little psychology to realize how this can go in their minds. This is how it often progresses over a period of years."MY job is to protect the public. Gee, i sure notice that the public is difficult to protect if I can't control what's happening. The more control I have, the easier it is to protect the public. If I had complete control, I could protect the public much much better. My job is to control the public. "

Which is why they support less requirements for warrants, more 'no knock' searches, why they want the ability to read people's emails and such without warrant, etc etc etc. If they could do anything they wanted and could tell us to do anything they wanted - they could FINALLY keep us safe.

You will see the same theme in gov't's of all levels. I see it regularly.

It's a natural human thought process and like i say it can occur over many years (tho not always). There's variations and flavours but it comes back to essentially the same thing. And here's the thing to remember - IT STARTED OFF WITH THE HONEST DESIRE TO SERVE. These are rarely bad people who've taken over, theyr'e good people who lost their focus at some point.

And that is why you were taught that police would prefer a totalitarian state. It is the natural progression for those who want to serve unless they catch that early on. They will force us to do what they KNOW is right, because they want to serve. And the BEST way to serve is to provide for our every need themselves and not leave it up to us. That is, unfortunately, also the best way to enslave a man.

We just have to keep that in mind.

I guess you are right. But at the end of the day if they really end up thinking like that, like I said, they are definitively not our friends because for us freedom is sacred.

When you say "IT STARTED OFF WITH THE HONEST DESIRE TO SERVE" it remains me that well known expression "hell is paved with good intentions"...

Foxer
08-19-2014, 04:11 PM
When you say "IT STARTED OFF WITH THE HONEST DESIRE TO SERVE" it remains me that well known expression "hell is paved with good intentions"...

sadly yes, the two are intimately connected.

JRW (QOR)
08-21-2014, 08:57 AM
To a point. Many police officers get in for all the right reasons. I have 3 cousins serving and they're all pretty good guys. although the youngest once commented that he'd like to get transferred to traffic enforcement and the other two looked at each other and said "we'd rather have a sister who's a hooker". :)

But you need to understand a little psychology to realize how this can go in their minds. This is how it often progresses over a period of years."MY job is to protect the public. Gee, i sure notice that the public is difficult to protect if I can't control what's happening. The more control I have, the easier it is to protect the public. If I had complete control, I could protect the public much much better. My job is to control the public. "

Which is why they support less requirements for warrants, more 'no knock' searches, why they want the ability to read people's emails and such without warrant, etc etc etc. If they could do anything they wanted and could tell us to do anything they wanted - they could FINALLY keep us safe.

You will see the same theme in gov't's of all levels. I see it regularly.

It's a natural human thought process and like i say it can occur over many years (tho not always). There's variations and flavours but it comes back to essentially the same thing. And here's the thing to remember - IT STARTED OFF WITH THE HONEST DESIRE TO SERVE. These are rarely bad people who've taken over, theyr'e good people who lost their focus at some point.

And that is why you were taught that police would prefer a totalitarian state. It is the natural progression for those who want to serve unless they catch that early on. They will force us to do what they KNOW is right, because they want to serve. And the BEST way to serve is to provide for our every need themselves and not leave it up to us. That is, unfortunately, also the best way to enslave a man.

We just have to keep that in mind.

The desire for total control means they dont trust us. Years of catching people doing bad things precipitates that mindset. Hence everyone is thought of as a potential law breaker in waiting (My brother-in-law was OPP and you could hear it in his tone, now retired he's changed). The cops need to be reminded this is a free democracy. People are free to act as they wish, including illegally, which is a very small percent of the population. Their best approach to serving us is to respect our freedom and trust us.

JRW (QOR)
08-21-2014, 09:00 AM
Few minutes ago I received a letter from the Sureté du Québec (Quebec provincial police), from Quebec CFO Isabelle Boudreault in fact, informing me about the RCMP reclassification of CZ858 and Swiss Arms. The letter says that according Minister Blaney July 23th intervention the reclassified rifles can be used only in a firing range that accept prohibited guns. As there is not a single firing range that accept these guns in Quebec that means in reality that we can keep the guns until the end of the two years amnesty but we cannot do anything with them... That is not what Minister Blaney said in his July 23th press conference if I remember well. By the way my CZ858 was an unrestricted rfiles when I bought it, so to use it like before the RCMP reclassification should means to use it for hunting, which is what I've done before.

But, why the hell is the Sureté du Québec is spending their time and our money sending letters to every Quebec CZ858 and Swiss Arms owners (thanks to the bloody long guns registry abolished in Canada but obviously not in Quebec) for a wrong decision from the RCMP, a decision that should be permanently reversed this fall by a new bill from Minister Blaney? What a waste of our money!

Send the letter to Blaney's office. More reason to get rid of provincial CFOs.

Strewth
08-21-2014, 09:21 AM
Send the letter to Blaney's office. More reason to get rid of provincial CFOs.

Excellent idea; all gun owners in Quebec should do this. Simple and to the point.

parrnan
08-21-2014, 10:16 AM
Excellent idea; all gun owners in Quebec should do this. Simple and to the point.

Only those of us who own a CZ858 or a Swiss Arms have received that letter because as the infamous long gun registry is still active in Quebec they (the SQ) know exactly who own these now prohibited guns.

Strewth
08-21-2014, 10:18 AM
Only those of us who own a CZ858 or a Swiss Arms have received that letter because as the infamous long gun registry is still active in Quebec they (the SQ) know exactly who own these now prohibited guns.

Sorry you're right, I misspoke. All owners should send the letter in. Would still be close to one thousand letters, I assume.

parrnan
08-21-2014, 11:41 AM
Sorry you're right, I misspoke. All owners should send the letter in. Would still be close to one thousand letters, I assume.

Yes, one thousand it probably a good guess. Few minutes ago I've sent a copy of my letter to Minister Blaney.

I.C.R.
09-05-2014, 05:39 PM
so did anyone with a cz858 or sans rifle that lives outside quebec get a similar letter? or just Quebecers?
because I tell ya, if some asshat rcmp officer in quebec has the registry data regarding the firearms I own (in BC) , I think my next step is to hire a lawyer.
I don't own any of these reclassified firearms but I take extreme exception to the situation in quebec and if they have a copy of the complete registry in their computers, that is an invasion of my privacy plain and simple.
I think I'm going to contact the privacy commissioners office.
we need to broaden the scope of our complaints

parrnan
09-08-2014, 01:12 PM
so did anyone with a cz858 or sans rifle that lives outside quebec get a similar letter? or just Quebecers?
because I tell ya, if some asshat rcmp officer in quebec has the registry data regarding the firearms I own (in BC) , I think my next step is to hire a lawyer.
I don't own any of these reclassified firearms but I take extreme exception to the situation in quebec and if they have a copy of the complete registry in their computers, that is an invasion of my privacy plain and simple.
I think I'm going to contact the privacy commissioners office.
we need to broaden the scope of our complaints

As the Sureté du Québec (our provincial police) kept a copy of the long guns register's data when the federal gov discard it I assume that the SQ have that data for all canadians who own a firearm.

JRW (QOR)
09-08-2014, 06:51 PM
so did anyone with a cz858 or sans rifle that lives outside quebec get a similar letter? or just Quebecers?
because I tell ya, if some asshat rcmp officer in quebec has the registry data regarding the firearms I own (in BC) , I think my next step is to hire a lawyer.
I don't own any of these reclassified firearms but I take extreme exception to the situation in quebec and if they have a copy of the complete registry in their computers, that is an invasion of my privacy plain and simple.
I think I'm going to contact the privacy commissioners office.
we need to broaden the scope of our complaints

Court ruling on this should be soon, before end of the year IIRC.

parrnan
11-13-2014, 10:41 AM
We're November 13th and still waiting for a permanent solution for CZ858 and Swiss Arms owners... Is minister Blaney a liar ?

kennymo
11-13-2014, 10:55 AM
C42 is the answer. Has a date been set for the postponed second reading yet? Or did I miss the boat?

parrnan
11-14-2014, 02:18 PM
C42 is the answer. Has a date been set for the postponed second reading yet? Or did I miss the boat?

I guess that C42 is dead because they presented it on October 7th and since then not a word about it from Blaney...

Gaidheal
11-14-2014, 02:37 PM
There's another thread here that mentions later this month for the bill to be looked t again.

Might be dead, but doubt it. They need the votes!

Doug_M
11-14-2014, 03:49 PM
2nd reading will be on the 26th Nov apparently

kennymo
11-14-2014, 04:38 PM
I guess that C42 is dead because they presented it on October 7th and since then not a word about it from Blaney...

Hold up there captain negative! You guess wrong, a number of MP's have stated that it will still go through pre election, and I am seeing that Nov.26th date being batted around elsewhere, as well as above ^^^^^^.

JRW (QOR)
11-14-2014, 05:47 PM
I guess that C42 is dead because they presented it on October 7th and since then not a word about it from Blaney...

Gotta love the downers, always wrong. Nov 26th bud.

parrnan
11-15-2014, 10:53 AM
Gotta love the downers, always wrong. Nov 26th bud.

OK, so I'll wait. Anyway C42 is just a first step as it does not include a permanent solution for CZ858 and Swiss Arms owners. It will only help to avoid that in the future law abiding guns owners have to live what CZ858 and Swiss Arms owners actually live.

Doug_M
11-15-2014, 12:41 PM
OK, so I'll wait. Anyway C42 is just a first step as it does not include a permanent solution for CZ858 and Swiss Arms owners. It will only help to avoid that in the future law abiding guns owners have to live what CZ858 and Swiss Arms owners actually live.

No such thing as a permanent solution. Any majority government so motivated can undo/change what the previous one did. When the CPC use the new powers in C-42 to declare the CZ and SA non-restricted an NDP or Lib government can re-OIC them back to prohibited. If the CPC implemented the simplified classification system an NDP or Lib gov could scrap it. C-42 is as "permanent" as it gets.

parrnan
11-15-2014, 03:40 PM
No such thing as a permanent solution. Any majority government so motivated can undo/change what the previous one did. When the CPC use the new powers in C-42 to declare the CZ and SA non-restricted an NDP or Lib government can re-OIC them back to prohibited. If the CPC implemented the simplified classification system an NDP or Lib gov could scrap it. C-42 is as "permanent" as it gets.

We need a permanent solution for CZ and SA actual owners, anything less is not acceptable.

Doug_M
11-15-2014, 06:33 PM
We need a permanent solution for CZ and SA actual owners, anything less is not acceptable.
What is a permanent solution?

JRW (QOR)
11-17-2014, 03:58 PM
OK, so I'll wait. Anyway C42 is just a first step as it does not include a permanent solution for CZ858 and Swiss Arms owners. It will only help to avoid that in the future law abiding guns owners have to live what CZ858 and Swiss Arms owners actually live.

It does provide a perminent solution to the Cz and SA issue. It allows for a OiC to move them by name from prohib to non-rest or rest. That will come soon after Royal Ascent.

CLW .45
11-18-2014, 10:53 AM
What is a permanent solution?

Nothing is permanent.

However, the appropriate solution is repeal of the prohibited firearms classification.

Until that happens, every firearm is simply a prohib-in-waiting.