PDA

View Full Version : A devastating accident with the Kel-Tec KSG



Drache
08-14-2014, 09:33 AM
An attorney in Virginia preparing a lawsuit that they will likely file against Kel-Tec and ProMag Industries.

It appears that their client was shooting a Kel-Tec KSG equipped with a ProMag "Archangel" polymer forward grip when tragedy occurred.

Keep in mind the KSG is a bullpup 12 gauge, with a total length of only 26 inches.

"The properly installed forward grip slid off the gun rail while the user was ksgpumping the gun, resulting in the user shooting off part of his hand," the attorney wrote on a lawyers-only site.

The attorney was seeking advice and technical experts for the lawsuit. A friend saw the post and sent it to me.

A contact wound with a 12 gauge is devastating. There's no coming back from something like that.

The attorney cites the compact nature of the KSG, and the fact there is nothing on the rail to "prevent the grip from sliding off."

They also noted alleged problems with the forward grip: "Nothing but a polymer nipple secures this grip to the rail -- this nipple partially sheared off during first use."

My thoughts on the KSG are mixed.

I think it's an intriguing design, but it suffers from Kel-Tec's poor quality control.

Some KSGs run like sewing machines, but some shooters have complained about serious, potentially fight-stopping FTEs and FTFs with their KSGs. The model I shot functioned flawlessly, however it was not nearly as smooth as other pump guns.

The polymer rail on the pump concerns me too.

And then there's the price, an MSRP of $990, which equates to about two 870s.

If you shoot one, please be careful.

http://thegunwriter.blogs.heraldtribune.com/17484/a-devastating-accident-with-the-kel-tec-ksg/

Ok I admit that the rail could have some form of stopper to stop a vertical grip from sliding forward and off... but I don't think I have EVER heard of an AR that had this happen. Simply put, the vertical grip wasn't installed properly if it came off....

Drache
08-14-2014, 09:36 AM
I also found this article as well:



Pump Gun Problem: Kel Tec KSG Rail Ruptures

Earlier today, commenter C Young posted the following the following comment underneath RF’s Kel-Tec KSG review. We contacted him for photos.

“The lower rail of the forend where a foregrip is recommended is PLASTIC unlike the upper rail which is metal. Within the first 10 shots using a sig sauer stoplight foregrip, the lower rail shattered, fragmented, and broke off. Very very disappointed. Otherwise, the gun shoots great.” Thus the photo above with two more after the jump. As someone trying to return something once said a very long time ago, caveat emptor.

http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Kel-Tec-KSG-broken-rail-courtesy-c-young.jpg

http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/KSG-broken-rail-courtesy-c-young.jpg

http://truthaboutguns-zippykid.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Kel-Tec-KSG-broken-rail-teeth-courtesy-c-young.jpg

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/02/daniel-zimmerman/pump-gun-problem-kel-tec-ksg-rail-ruptures/

lone-wolf
08-14-2014, 09:41 AM
But plastic is tougher than steel now-a-days :rolleyes:

Strewth
08-14-2014, 09:43 AM
Ok I admit that the rail could have some form of stopper to stop a vertical grip from sliding forward and off... but I don't think I have EVER heard of an AR that had this happen. Simply put, the vertical grip wasn't installed properly if it came off....

Tend to agree from the info posted; I'd be looking to the grip, not the shotgun?

Drache
08-14-2014, 09:44 AM
Tend to agree from the info posted; I'd be looking to the grip, not the shotgun?

Well the second article does show a problem with the rail breaking. So if the rail broke in the first article which allowed the grip to slide all the way forward and off....

Who knows....

webster
08-14-2014, 10:07 AM
Ok, I have to ask, what was the guy doing pulling that trigger when his hand slid off the front of the gun?! That sounds like an operator headspace issue to me. Yes, the part may have failed, but if you had your head screwed on straight it should have ended there. I understand people want to run their guns hard and fast, but doing that before you're fully familiar with it is a bad idea.

There may be something I'm missing here, but if I suddenly found myself supporting the full weight of a gun with just my back hand, I'd stop and see what was going on before firing off the next round.

Drache
08-14-2014, 10:44 AM
Ok, I have to ask, what was the guy doing pulling that trigger when his hand slid off the front of the gun?! That sounds like an operator headspace issue to me. Yes, the part may have failed, but if you had your head screwed on straight it should have ended there. I understand people want to run their guns hard and fast, but doing that before you're fully familiar with it is a bad idea.

There may be something I'm missing here, but if I suddenly found myself supporting the full weight of a gun with just my back hand, I'd stop and see what was going on before firing off the next round.

Or he slammed the pump home which started a chain reaction of pulling the shotgun slightly forward enough (not pulling it enough to his shoulder) that he started squeezing the trigger and then the grip broke up which left his hand in front of the shotgun just as the trigger was pulled. Something like this could never happen with any other shotgun except a bullpup. A freak accident yes but very well might also be shoddy workmanship of the shotgun and/or the grip.

webster
08-14-2014, 11:13 AM
Or he slammed the pump home which started a chain reaction of pulling the shotgun slightly forward enough (not pulling it enough to his shoulder) that he started squeezing the trigger and then the grip broke up which left his hand in front of the shotgun just as the trigger was pulled. Something like this could never happen with any other shotgun except a bullpup. A freak accident yes but very well might also be shoddy workmanship of the shotgun and/or the grip.

I hadn't considered that. Definitely a possibility, although a small one. To your point in bold, I would say any compact shotgun, not just bullpups, could experience this sort of incident. I'm thinking of the Norinco 870 clones in particular. My arms are definitely capable of reaching past the muzzle on many "carbine-length" firearms. The guy's lawyer sounds like he is trying to blame the accident on the length of the gun, which just irks me.

For the record, I'm not defending Kel-Tec. They have certainly let slide their share of QC mishaps from what I've seen. Hopefully more details become available soon.

Drache
08-14-2014, 11:14 AM
I hadn't considered that. Definitely a possibility, although a small one. To your point in bold, I would say any compact shotgun, not just bullpups, could experience this sort of incident. I'm thinking of the Norinco 870 clones in particular. My arms are definitely capable of reaching past the muzzle on many "carbine-length" firearms. The guy's lawyer sounds like he is trying to blame the accident on the length of the gun, which just irks me.

For the record, I'm not defending Kel-Tec. They have certainly let slide their share of QC mishaps from what I've seen. Hopefully more details become available soon.

Yers I hadnt thought of the 14" shotguns.

I agree that the lawyer using the length bugs me. That shouldn't matter.

Bad quality though is a valid excuse.

Rory McCanuck
08-14-2014, 11:54 AM
... but I don't think I have EVER heard of an AR that had this happen.
But you aren't slamming an action back- and fore-wards with it on an AR.

I can quite easily see how it happened.
Buddy gets a new toy and is excited to test it out.
Loads it up and goes "full operator" on it.
Handle/rail fails, left hand flies in front of the muzzle.
Either the trigger finger hasn't got the "don't fire" message yet, or it automatically contracts to help hold up the shotgun that is now slipping out of control.

x0ra
08-14-2014, 12:01 PM
Yers I hadnt thought of the 14" shotguns.

I agree that the lawyer using the length bugs me. That shouldn't matter.

Bad quality though is a valid excuse.
Don't forget that it happened in the US, AFAIR, short barreled shotgun, below 16", are NFA restricted.

Foxer
08-14-2014, 02:23 PM
Yeah, i could see it happening pretty easily.

JustBen
08-14-2014, 06:46 PM
I can quite easily see how it happened.
Buddy gets a new toy and is excited to test it out.
Loads it up and goes "full operator" on it.
Handle/rail fails, left hand flies in front of the muzzle.
Either the trigger finger hasn't got the "don't fire" message yet, or it automatically contracts to help hold up the shotgun that is now slipping out of control.

Never go full operator.

Malus
08-14-2014, 06:54 PM
Sh*t happens. My KSG runs flawlessly (so far/knock on wood), but I have to admit, I don't go "full operator" with it. I save that for the semi's......

bettercallsaul
08-14-2014, 09:26 PM
Sure am glad I have a metal Mossberg.

WESCAN
08-14-2014, 09:51 PM
Keltec polymer, in my opinion is crap.

This shotgun is really cool, but the way the action bars are secured to the plastic fore end is dumbass.

At least the way they chose to do it is.

JustBen
08-15-2014, 05:09 AM
Keltec polymer, in my opinion is crap.

This shotgun is really cool, but the way the action bars are secured to the plastic fore end is dumbass.

At least the way they chose to do it is.

I agree. This shotgun was intended to be run very hard, but it's not built to take the level of abuse that some people are going to throw at it.

Omkaar
10-06-2014, 09:52 PM
I think I'm gonna go inspect my forward grip.
I love loading up both tube and doing a full dump, would hate to have the grip come loose during one of those sessions.

Wendell
10-07-2014, 10:42 AM
"Not guilty, I said, you've got the wrong man. Nothing touched the trigger but the Devil's right hand."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW5E8noEbn4