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Billythreefeathers
09-28-2014, 07:57 AM
Rex Murphy: The case for revoking the citizenship of Canadian terrorists


http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2014/09/27/rex-murphy-the-case-for-revoking-the-citizenship-of-canadian-terrorists/

Every label can be revoked. A pacifist moonlighting as a mercenary really cannot claim to be a pacifist. A vegetarian who delights in rump roast bathed in a pool of gravy really cannot claim, by virtue of an ornamental slice of turnip on the side, to be a vegetarian.
But there are categories far more serious than vegetarianism, and practices more profound even than pacifism, and I take citizenship to be one of those. Yet citizenship, too, is not transcendental and immutable. It can be lost.
So it may be useful to explore what might lead a polity, a nation, to revoke the citizenship status of one of its citizens — whether or not that citizenship was invested by birth or achieved by choice through immigration.
May we set out as an ultimate test case for Canadian citizenship, that of a hypothetical Citizen A whom we learn has bought an air ticket, travelled to another country, signed on with a terrorist organization, donned a black ski-mask, summoned a camera crew, taken a knife, and sliced off the head of Victim B. And to make the case fully explicit — though reality has not yet offered this so-specific example — Victim B also is a Canadian citizen.
Related
 Canadian government begins invalidating passports of citizens who have left to join extremist groups
 Overwhelming majority supports revoking citizenship for Canadians who commit treason: poll
 Canadian believed killed in attacks on ISIS whisked to Syria by jihadists before panicked family could stop him
Can we not take it that such actions and choices fully entitle Canadians, or their government, to say of Citizen A: “Buddy, you’re finished here. You’re no longer one of us. Your citizenship ended with the mask, the knife, the blood and the video.”
I am not arguing that this must be the case — but simply that there is a case for annulling citizenship in those circumstances. Some deeds are of such malignity, so charged with repulsion of the understandings that underpin commonality, that we — as Canadians, through our government — have a right, or more precisely should have a right, to deny citizenship to such an actor.
I don’t see these as in any way creating what the Liberal leader, Justin Trudeau, has dismissed as “two-tier” citizenship, or opening a path to such a concept. The “slippery slope” he alludes to does not apply here. For slippery-slope arguments usually proceed from trivial causes opening up wider more consequential breaches.
Joining a terrorist organization, backing jihad, participating in beheadings is not trivial — it lies at the very end of the feared continuum. It’s the lowest point of the moral valley.
As I noted at the outset, it is a commonplace of our times and previous times that various castes, positions, employments and membership routinely can be invalidated — via ostracism, exile or dismissal — by practices that outrage the defining characteristics of a given role or position.
It’s a strange world in which we have even to contemplate such exigencies, but it is a strange world we find ourselves in today
Priests are defrocked; medals from honour societies have been imperiously stripped from their holders; soldiers are court-marshalled and drummed out in disgrace; lawyers disbarred, judges swept from the bench, Senators tossed from caucuses, and even Presidents impeached.
The soldier who flees in combat and exposes his fellows to danger is seen as not worthy of being a solider. The judge who has oiled his palm with a bribe is seen as not worthy of being a judge. Treason and excommunication are long-standing responses to ultimate disfealties — and they are surely a kind of cancellation of status, one by the death penalty, the other by exclusion from the community of believers and the possibilities of salvation.
To my mind, these are all of an inferior enormity to the case of a citizen who abandons the country in which he was born, or to which he gave the oath of citizenship, who then pledges his fealty to a murderous band professing a murderous creed.
It’s a strange world in which we have even to contemplate such exigencies, but it is a strange world we find ourselves in today, in which nationals of the democracies willingly travel abroad to invest themselves in the orders of international terrorism, spit on their achieved citizenship, and threaten the safety of their onetime fellows in nationality.
The denial of passports is a stage toward the denial of citizenship. But the denial or witholding of passports is not a sufficient signal of the detestation a country and its people hold for those who so contemptuously forsake the gifts of loyalty and respect that a country rightfully commands from real citizens.

Petamocto
09-28-2014, 08:14 AM
My normal feeling is that I do not like dual citizenship, because I want someone to be loyal to Canada. We've already covered the Lebanon 2006 scenario when people who hadn't lived here or paid taxes for decades "used" Canada for selfish purposes to get out of there. No need to dwell on that. In those cases of dual citizenship, they would simply be stripped of a redundant citizenship, so they would revert by default to the other one.

What I am not sure of, though, is what happens if a person did not have dual citizenship? Can you strip a person's only citizenship? What happens to them, then? Are they just a citizen of Earth? I'm not an immigration lawyer and don't know the answer to this, but where would it stop? If we are going to strip an ISIS fighter's citizenship for killing someone overseas, why not strip all major criminals' citizenship? What then?

Billythreefeathers
09-28-2014, 08:49 AM
My normal feeling is that I do not like dual citizenship, because I want someone to be loyal to Canada. We've already covered the Lebanon 2006 scenario when people who hadn't lived here or paid taxes for decades "used" Canada for selfish purposes to get out of there. No need to dwell on that. In those cases of dual citizenship, they would simply be stripped of a redundant citizenship, so they would revert by default to the other one.

What I am not sure of, though, is what happens if a person did not have dual citizenship? Can you strip a person's only citizenship? What happens to them, then? Are they just a citizen of Earth? I'm not an immigration lawyer and don't know the answer to this, but where would it stop? If we are going to strip an ISIS fighter's citizenship for killing someone overseas, why not strip all major criminals' citizenship? What then?

I think the first thing is to strip the passport where the intent is to travel abroad to join one of these freedom fighting organizations, preventing them to leave the country
.
Secondly, if someone is outside of the country and is committing terrorist acts then they can stay out, burn your passport if you wish, or try to come back to Canada and our legal system can deal with them. If some of these people turn out to be 'duel' citizens then perhaps the revocation of the 'Canadian' citizenship will make them citizens just not Canadian citizens..

Why is Rex still at the CBC?

soulchaser
09-28-2014, 09:59 AM
I think the first thing is to strip the passport where the intent is to travel abroad to join one of these freedom fighting organizations, preventing them to leave the country
.
Secondly, if someone is outside of the country and is committing terrorist acts then they can stay out, burn your passport if you wish, or try to come back to Canada and our legal system can deal with them. If some of these people turn out to be 'duel' citizens then perhaps the revocation of the 'Canadian' citizenship will make them citizens just not Canadian citizens..

Why is Rex still at the CBC?

He's their token righty. When they are accused of being anti Consevative, they can point to Rex and claim they aren't.

UCSPanther
09-28-2014, 04:30 PM
In my books, if you are a foreign-born citizen, and you skip out to join an outlawed terror group or a hostile regime, especially to make war on our country, you have no home here.

Petamocto
09-28-2014, 05:02 PM
In my books, if you are a foreign-born citizen, and you skip out to join an outlawed terror group or a hostile regime, especially to make war on our country, you have no home here.

That's only one possible situation, though. What happens when a second generation Canadian is born here, gets his natural Canadian citizenship, and then swears Jihad against Canada and starts either killing people here or goes to Iraq/Syria to fight for them there, up to and including beheading western hostages?

Do we strip his citizenship then? He was born here and isn't a citizenship anywhere else. Where does it stop, then? Do we strip everyone convicted of a heinous crime of their citizenship? I think we'd be the only country to do so.

RangeBob
09-28-2014, 05:02 PM
Should we also do the opposite: a hypothetical Citizen X of Country Y whom we learn has bought an air ticket, travelled to another country, signed on with an anti-terrorist organization, donned a green hockey-mask, rescued a captured camera crew, taken a knife, and sliced out a chunk of roast pig;
be granted Canadian citizenship even though they still hold citizenship of Country Y ?