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Foxer
09-28-2014, 03:37 PM
Mulroney says Trudeau to blame for Meech failure
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CTV.ca News Staff
Published Wednesday, September 5, 2007 10:12PM EDT

Former prime minister Brian Mulroney directly and bitterly blames Pierre Trudeau for his greatest political defeat: the failure of the Meech Lake Accord that recognized Quebec as a distinct society.
In a CTV documentary to be broadcast Sunday -- and in his soon-to-be-released memoirs -- Mulroney recounts how Trudeau used a personal vendetta to turn the public against an Accord that was supported almost entirely by the political class.


"(Trudeau) called me a weakling, he called us cowards, he called the premiers snivelers," Mulroney told Lloyd Robertson, CTV's chief news anchor and senior news editor.
"You name it, it was all there, it was a vicious personal attack."
The Meech Lake Accord was a set of failed Constitutional amendments hammered out by Mulroney and the 10 premiers, including Quebec's Robert Bourassa, in 1987. The Accord was designed to persuade Quebec to endorse the Canada Act.
Mulroney had hoped to upstage Trudeau, who had failed to persuade Quebec to sign onto the 1981 Constitution after months of debate with the premiers. And it was clear in the interview that the failure of the Accord still troubles Mulroney deeply after 14 years out of office.
Mulroney accuses Trudeau of being jealous of his success in bringing Quebec onside, which is why he said Trudeau and his political followers torpedoed the Accord. He said this view is even supported by one of Trudeau's inner circle.

"One of his cabinet ministers, Francis Fox, said 'Look, the only reason for this, is that Pierre Trudeau doesn't want Brian Mulroney to succeed where he has failed'," Mulroney said.
The Accord died in June 1990, when Newfoundland and Manitoba failed to approve it. The fiasco of Meech ended up generating a sense of disappointment toward the federal system and led many Quebecers to reconsider separation.

"He had the option of being helpful, or being destructive -- and he chose the destructive course," said Mulroney.

While vigorously defending his achievements, Mulroney also dug into Trudeau's past, including the flamboyant former prime minister's refusal as a young man to fight in the Second World War.
"This is a man who questioned the Allies and when the Jews were being sacrificed and when the great extermination program was on -- he was marching around Outremont here on the other side of the issue," said Mulroney.
"He's entitled to make that kind of decision. But it doesn't qualify him for any position of moral leadership in our society."
Mulroney's comments echoed those by critics who blasted Trudeau for riding around rural Quebec on a motorcycle during World War II while wearing a 19th-century German army helmet.
In the 2006 book "Young Trudeau," the authors pored over the young Trudeau's private papers and revealed that the future federalist once plotted to take Quebec out of Canada and embraced francophone nationalism -- while shrugging off reports of Nazi atrocities as British propaganda.
Authors Max and Monique Nemni say Trudeau's attitudes can be attributed to the influence of his upbringing and the norms and mores of the day. But nevertheless, it shocked many to learn of the ideals and influences embraced by the 1930s and early 1940s-era Trudeau.
The two-hour special, Triumph & Treachery: The Brian Mulroney Story, will make its television premiere Sunday, Sept. 9, 2007 at 7 p.m. (check local listings) on CTV.

2014 All rights reserved.
Bell Media Television
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Read more: http://www.ctvnews.ca/mulroney-says-trudeau-to-blame-for-meech-failure-1.255159#ixzz3EeGme7UK

Foxer
09-28-2014, 03:40 PM
"He had the option of being helpful, or being destructive -- and he chose the destructive course," said Mulroney
Oh that's got to hurt! :)

Not a horrible time for us for Trudo to get some negative media, even if it's the senior

Forbes/Hutton
09-28-2014, 04:31 PM
While daddy was a Nazi sympathizer, shiny pony's setting a pattern of supporting Muslim extremists for himself.

Billythreefeathers
09-28-2014, 04:33 PM
Oh that's got to hurt! :)

Not a horrible time for us for Trudo to get some negative media, even if it's the senior

senior or junior, it's all good.

My biggest axe to grind with Senior was/is the NEP, so many friends and relatives loss just about everything when it torpedoed the economy in the '80s.

I owned virtually nothing but the cloths on my back at the time but the hurt still runs deep.

conger
09-28-2014, 06:27 PM
senior or junior, it's all good.

My biggest axe to grind with Senior was/is the NEP, so many friends and relatives loss just about everything when it torpedoed the economy in the '80s.

I owned virtually nothing but the cloths on my back at the time but the hurt still runs deep.
Bingo. And we set still hate him 3 decades later.

Haywire1
09-28-2014, 07:17 PM
Yeah, unfortunately the crappy legacy he left we are still trying to sort out and get rid of.

soulchaser
09-28-2014, 08:13 PM
The article is seven years old.

Haywire1
09-28-2014, 08:16 PM
Yep, and our feelings havnt changed a bit. Kind of says it all eh?

oilman28
09-28-2014, 09:14 PM
I never met anyone who thought PET was a great or even good Prime minister till I went out to Ontario for the first time a few years ago. The general consensus was that stealing money from the west was justified to keep the rest of the country going.....

stevesummit
09-29-2014, 07:51 AM
I never met anyone who thought PET was a great or even good Prime minister till I went out to Ontario for the first time a few years ago. The general consensus was that stealing money from the west was justified to keep the rest of the country going.....


There are many that still feel that way

Foxer
09-29-2014, 07:55 AM
The article is seven years old.

HA! - i didn't even catch that! my software usually only finds current stories, i have no idea how it popped up that old of an article. :) It must have been on one of their current pages for SOME reason.

atr
09-29-2014, 10:44 PM
Mulrooney has been publically critical of Harper so I write him off .

Shalimar
10-01-2014, 09:45 AM
I'd take PT over JT anyday.. at least he had a backbone and was honest despite doing some really dumb things (all politicians do sadly). That said he also in this context was facing Mulroney whom is one of the most hated PM's ever.. so:

Too bad we can't put them both in a ring for our entertainment!... but hey maybe we can get JT to do it! :evil1:

conger
10-01-2014, 10:36 AM
I'd take PT over JT anyday.. at least he had a backbone and was honest despite doing some really dumb things (all politicians do sadly). That said he also in this context was facing Mulroney whom is one of the most hated PM's ever.. so:

Too bad we can't put them both in a ring for our entertainment!... but hey maybe we can get JT to do it! :evil1:
One of the things that scares me the most about JT is his spinelessness. He isn't a true leader of people. He is a puppet whose strings are pulled from behind the curtain.

Shalimar
10-01-2014, 12:45 PM
One of the things that scares me the most about JT is his spinelessness. He isn't a true leader of people. He is a puppet whose strings are pulled from behind the curtain.

^^^^^

this in spades.. (unlike his dad whom had a backbone)

it's a seriously dangerous prospect IMO to say the least.. and I for one do NOT want to test that idea!

Billythreefeathers
10-01-2014, 01:05 PM
I'd take PT over JT anyday.. at least he had a backbone and was honest despite doing some really dumb things (all politicians do sadly). That said he also in this context was facing Mulroney whom is one of the most hated PM's ever.. so:

Too bad we can't put them both in a ring for our entertainment!... but hey maybe we can get JT to do it! :evil1:

if we could open the books on PET I think you would not want him either,, BUT If I have to choose I'll choose JT, because there's a good chance we can send him packing before he gets to really screw Canadians over.

conger
10-01-2014, 01:46 PM
What I find hard to believe is Justin's fan base. I call them fans because these people act like he's some kind of movie star. They don't look at the substance of anything he has to offer. I thought we Canadians were smarter than that. But it seems the world is getting dumber and it's painful to watch.

Shalimar
10-01-2014, 05:53 PM
if we could open the books on PET I think you would not want him either,, BUT If I have to choose I'll choose JT, because there's a good chance we can send him packing before he gets to really screw Canadians over.

Even w/o opening the books.. at least with PT it was not a cloud of BS.. and stupidity unlike JT.. yes JT might be sent packing.. but what if that does not happen (UGH).


So therefore it IMO at least would be better to have that which is honest despite not agreeing with him than having even the possibility of the flip flopping tard aka jt

(and remember. I'm not a "conservative" per se LOL)

Shalimar
10-01-2014, 05:55 PM
What I find hard to believe is Justin's fan base. I call them fans because these people act like he's some kind of movie star. They don't look at the substance of anything he has to offer. I thought we Canadians were smarter than that. But it seems the world is getting dumber and it's painful to watch.


This says it all:




Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe.

Frank Zappa

Swampdonkey
10-01-2014, 07:24 PM
What are the actual reasons Mulroney is so hated?

conger
10-01-2014, 07:27 PM
What are the actual reasons Mulroney is so hated?
He gave us the gst. Plus some painful economic measures to get interest rates down.

Swampdonkey
10-01-2014, 07:34 PM
Didn't taxation actually increase under Cretien and Martin, though?

Billythreefeathers
10-01-2014, 07:38 PM
What are the actual reasons Mulroney is so hated?

brown paper bags filled with consulting fees

in the end he (and the Progressive Conservatives) were no different then Cretans LPC

conger
10-01-2014, 07:42 PM
Yup. Trudeau Sr put the country in the economic state it was in. Mulroney did things to try to fix it. Liberals after him did what liberals do. Tax and spend. As a westerner, I didn't hate Mulroney, but I sure have a dislike for Trudeau, like most Albertan's in my age bracket.

Foxer
10-01-2014, 10:50 PM
Yup. Trudeau Sr put the country in the economic state it was in. Mulroney did things to try to fix it. Liberals after him did what liberals do. Tax and spend. As a westerner, I didn't hate Mulroney, but I sure have a dislike for Trudeau, like most Albertan's in my age bracket.

It actually gets hard to track the actual tax implications of the Chretien gov't. IN some respects he reduced taxes - income tax actually went down a bit under chretien/martin. However other taxes were kept artificially high. For example, there was no reduction in tax for UI - yet they radically reduced UI benefits. The net result is that they took 60 BILLION dollars and then some from the UI savings contingency fund and put it into general revenue. Well - what do you call it when you give less benefits then spend the surplus money on stuff other than what the money was raised for? He also cut back radically on provincial transfers - I think funding for Canada Medical (which originally started at 50 percent provincial and 50 percent federal) dropped to 15 percent federal and 85 percent provincial. Yet the taxes stayed where they were. Which meant that provinces had to raise taxes or run deficits or make cuts.

It goes on of course.

Mulroney did 3 major things to kill off our deficit. First - he ended the structural deficit. In other words - he brought in as much money as he spent in services most years. So we stopped going into debt just to provide our services every year like we did under the libs. Of course - there was already interest to be paid on the original debt he inherited from the libs, and he could NOT cover that during his term, so debt increased overall but mostly from interest (interest rates were cripplingly high at the time).

The second thing he did was the GST. It made us more competative, and overall helped significantly to fight the deficit.

And the third thing he did was the Free trade deal with the US. Combined with the GST (which american companies no longer had to pay, vs the old hidden taxes), this increased our trade with the us ten-fold - putting massive money into our economy and radically increasing gov't revenues.

The 4th thing that happened is that the world economy stabalized and interest rates started to fall. By the time mulroney got ousted, interest rates were a fraction of what they were. This obviously greatly reduced the interest payments on the debt, and made it possible to actually pay that interest and still have a surplus. If rates had stayed the same, the libs would have run deficits.

Mulroney was not a great man. He was a slimy guy pocketing money he shouldn't have just like chretien was, And he ignored the needs and wants of the west in pretty much the same fashion. BUT - it was HE and NOT the libs that did the work necessary to actually bring us back into surplus, combined with downloading costs to the provinces by the libs.

Shalimar
10-02-2014, 11:28 AM
What are the actual reasons Mulroney is so hated?

There are many various reasons.. much the same as all other PM's... but Mulroney and PT are probably the poster child so to speak for that.

As for a reason.. ramming through the NAFTA agreement was a huge one when most of the country did not want it. (Same as the Lib's rammed through c-68 when they knew most of the country was against it)


Also note.. that is also why Queen Eliz IMO deserves a kick in the ass... since she was the only one with the authority to tell him NO.. and she refused to get involved.. So having her involved at all in our politics IMO is a waste)

Foxer
10-02-2014, 12:19 PM
There are many various reasons.. much the same as all other PM's... but Mulroney and PT are probably the poster child so to speak for that.

As for a reason.. ramming through the NAFTA agreement was a huge one when most of the country did not want it. (Same as the Lib's rammed through c-68 when they knew most of the country was against it)


Also note.. that is also why Queen Eliz IMO deserves a kick in the ass... since she was the only one with the authority to tell him NO.. and she refused to get involved.. So having her involved at all in our politics IMO is a waste)
That's a complete load of horsehockey (with the exception of the first sentance).

The free trade agreement was not 'rammed thru' and in fact was popular enough in most of the country. And rightly so as we can see - it produced a crapload of jobs in canada and radically reduced our deficit. There were a small group of naysayers and industry protectionists who didn't get it and couldn't understand (or feared for their own jobs) who complalined. You don't hear anyone with half a brain walking around now saying 'darn that free trade deal' so it wouldn't explain why people didn't like him now. Hell - chretien campaigned on removing or radically renegotiating it - then kept it as is. People didn't freak out on him.

As to the queen... I can't even believe you said that. Surly to heaven you don't need that explained to you. C'mon man.

Mulrony was disliked because he was seen as corrupt (which he probably was) and in the west because he agressively kept the west out of the halls of power, which is what lead to the whole reform thing. (remember - their slogan was 'the west wants in).

Compounding this was his failures at meech and charelottown. These were very divisive and seen as 'unnecessary' by many, and left a bad taste in many people's mouths.

Corruption, arrogance, etc - same as chretien in many ways but chretien was a little more clever and a little more 'charming' in the east. There's a lot of people who like mulroney, there's those who like chretien. But for the most part that kind of corruption never makes people feel particularly warm to a prime minister.

Shalimar
10-02-2014, 12:54 PM
That's a complete load of horsehockey (with the exception of the first sentance).

The free trade agreement was not 'rammed thru' and in fact was popular enough in most of the country. And rightly so as we can see - it produced a crapload of jobs in canada and radically reduced our deficit. There were a small group of naysayers and industry protectionists who didn't get it and couldn't understand (or feared for their own jobs) who complalined. You don't hear anyone with half a brain walking around now saying 'darn that free trade deal' so it wouldn't explain why people didn't like him now. Hell - chretien campaigned on removing or radically renegotiating it - then kept it as is. People didn't freak out on him.

As to the queen... I can't even believe you said that. Surly to heaven you don't need that explained to you. C'mon man.

Mulrony was disliked because he was seen as corrupt (which he probably was) and in the west because he agressively kept the west out of the halls of power, which is what lead to the whole reform thing. (remember - their slogan was 'the west wants in).

Compounding this was his failures at meech and charelottown. These were very divisive and seen as 'unnecessary' by many, and left a bad taste in many people's mouths.

Corruption, arrogance, etc - same as chretien in many ways but chretien was a little more clever and a little more 'charming' in the east. There's a lot of people who like mulroney, there's those who like chretien. But for the most part that kind of corruption never makes people feel particularly warm to a prime minister.


Sorry foxer but it is not. All of the polls done at that time showed the majority of ppl did not want NAFTA.. therefore yes it was in essence rammed through despite the desires of the citizens. That did not make him many friends to say the least and pissed off far more than most would ever think.. also note his duck and run after that.. same as mcsquinty pulled here in bantario

as for cretien... UGH.. he's a putz

harbl_the_cat
10-02-2014, 04:48 PM
Mulroney sold most of Canada's 660 tonnes of gold when gold was $300/oz. The Bank of Canada has 3 tonnes of gold today.

I sure hope there isn't a financial crisis in the next 5 years.

conger
10-03-2014, 08:48 AM
There was also the stink about the Airbus purchase. The bidding process was shady and there were rumors of bribes being taken. Nothing was ever proven though.
A funny thing about that story. I don't know if any of the old vets like myself are on here but at that time I was serving in the forces. Before Canada purchased the Airbuses, when used a fleet of old Boeing 707s. They were in service way past their time and the air frames were tired and worn out. The military complained about their reliability a lot and for years. But the govt was not planning a big purchase. Then a plane load of politicians and senior bureaucrats were using one of the jets for some big convention in the states. When then touched down in Minneapolis, the nose gear collapsed and scared the crap out of them. Only some minor injuries but nothing serious.
Shortly after that, Canada purchased the 5 Airbuses.

Billythreefeathers
10-03-2014, 09:35 AM
There was also the stink about the Airbus purchase. The bidding process was shady and there were rumors of bribes being taken. Nothing was ever proven though.
A funny thing about that story. I don't know if any of the old vets like myself are on here but at that time I was serving in the forces. Before Canada purchased the Airbuses, when used a fleet of old Boeing 707s. They were in service way past their time and the air frames were tired and worn out. The military complained about their reliability a lot and for years. But the govt was not planning a big purchase. Then a plane load of politicians and senior bureaucrats were using one of the jets for some big convention in the states. When then touched down in Minneapolis, the nose gear collapsed and scared the crap out of them. Only some minor injuries but nothing serious.
Shortly after that, Canada purchased the 5 Airbuses.

Conger,, remember that 707 landing very well,, we were in Fort Knox for 10 days doing M-1 training on the first generation US simulators,, the hurk that was suppose to pick us up had to make a midair diversion to Minn to pick up a number of passengers,, then made several other flights to deliver and retrieve parts for the plane. We were stuck in FN for another week, best deployment ever ;)

I believe Mulrony did finial admit to an income tax oversight of 300K as a consulting fee taken one day after he left office,,

conger
10-03-2014, 09:52 AM
Interesting how quick those planes got replaced when the political class started worrying about their own butts flying in them.

Hmrdwn
10-07-2014, 08:10 AM
There was also the stink about the Airbus purchase. The bidding process was shady and there were rumors of bribes being taken. Nothing was ever proven though.


Tell that to Karlheinz Schreiber, if you can find out which jail he's in.

http://www.citynews.ca/2007/11/14/brian-mulroney-karlheinz-schreiber-case-chronology/?__federated=1

conger
10-07-2014, 08:28 AM
Tell that to Karlheinz Schreiber, if you can find out which jail he's in.

http://www.citynews.ca/2007/11/14/brian-mulroney-karlheinz-schreiber-case-chronology/?__federated=1
Holy crap, I almost forgot about him. When things started looking shady, the Mulroney political machine sure turned on him.