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Prairie Dog
09-30-2014, 11:49 PM
RCMP decision to drop fur hats over animal-rights concerns overruled by Tories

The Conservative government says it is overturning an RCMP decision to doff their muskrat hats in favour of more animal-friendly tuques.

Environment Minister Leona Aglukkaq told the House of Commons that the public safety minister is directing the Mounties to reverse the move.
RCMP-style muskrat winter hat

The RCMP recently wrote to an animal-rights group to say it had found a tuque that works well in very cold weather and would therefore begin buying them for officers.

The Association for the Protection of Fur Bearing Animals says muskrats are caught in body-gripping traps, which can leave them exposed to the elements, dehydration, starvation and predators before they die.

The association says a single fur hat like that traditionally worn by the RCMP requires at least three muskrat pelts.

Aglukkaq, who hails from Nunavut, is a staunch supporter of fur trappers.

The RCMP referred questions Tuesday to Public Safety Canada.

Interference?

Association spokesman Michael Howie heard the news with "a combination of shock and disgust."

"The RCMP made a decision based on facts, scientific testing and the collective attitudes of their members and the public," Howie said. "The government of Canada is clearly trying to pander to a dwindling industry and disregarding the rest of the country's views."

In the Commons, Conservative MP Robert Sopuck said the "egregious anti-fur decision by the RCMP" had threatened to devastate thousands of livelihoods.

"The fur trade is vital to the economy of many remote rural communities communities who often have few other economic options."

Howie said the majority of Canada's fur cultivation actually takes place on factory farms where hundreds of thousands of mink and fox are kept in tiny cages and slaughtered for their skin.

The association has launched an online petition demanding the government honour the RCMP's original decision.

"Interfering with what the public clearly believes in is what is disrespectful here," Howie said. "And right now, we are disgusted with our government."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/rcmp-decision-to-drop-fur-hats-over-animal-rights-concerns-overruled-by-tories-1.2782918?cmp=rss&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


The RCMP recently wrote to an animal-rights group to say it had found a tuque that works well in very cold weather and would therefore begin buying them for officers.

The new Cabelas catalogue is here! The new Cabelas catalogue is here!


"Interfering with what the public clearly believes in is what is disrespectful here," Howie said. "And right now, we are disgusted with our government."

Imagine my surprise....

Billythreefeathers
10-01-2014, 03:37 AM
fur hats overruled ,,

note to self (RCMP) next time check with the boss

OEM
10-01-2014, 07:51 AM
I shudder to think that they can even consider changing such an essential part of their makeup...their uniform, based on complaints from some organization like that. Is that what they're all about now?

Gaidheal
10-01-2014, 07:59 AM
It's funny one some level - the RCMP being over-ruled.

I hope it is foreshadowing things to come...

Camo tung
10-01-2014, 08:10 AM
All about the image and as we have seen, the image of the old, proud RCMP is long lost. Watchmen caps better suit the bad boy image of today.

Foxer
10-01-2014, 08:16 AM
I dunno about toques. I honestly would have had some trouble taking a peace officer seriously while i was staring at his pom-pom.

http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server400/711f1/products/67/images/341/ca2620_blk_dred__90297.1409029812.1280.1280.jpg?c= 2

kennymo
10-01-2014, 08:17 AM
If you have an RCMP buddy, a great prank is to advertise 'genuine RCMP fur hat' in the Buy and Sell with their cell phone number.

Fur is a fantastic renewable resource IMO, often a superior product to the latest and greatest synthetic too. You won't catch me turning in the rabbit fur winter hat.

Billythreefeathers
10-01-2014, 08:38 AM
can't wait for the first day of snow shoveling,, muskrat hat on stand by,, ;)

Shalimar
10-01-2014, 09:41 AM
I dunno about toques. I honestly would have had some trouble taking a peace officer seriously while i was staring at his pom-pom.

http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server400/711f1/products/67/images/341/ca2620_blk_dred__90297.1409029812.1280.1280.jpg?c= 2

/me dies laughing @ that mental image!!!! Priceless one Foxer :Beer time:

Prairie Dog
10-01-2014, 10:46 AM
Licence and registration please.

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo106/sigp226rfan/Coyote_Fur_Mountain_Man_Hat_Full_Co_zpscf549ddc.jp g

http://www.furhatworld.com/coyote-fur-mountain-man-hat-full-coyote-pelt-p-331.html

blacksmithden
10-01-2014, 11:27 AM
fur hats overruled ,,

note to self (RCMP) next time check with the boss

Im disgusted that so many in the upper ranks seem to have forgotten that they do have an elected boss, and that they are still nothing more than employees when it boils right down to it. The organization is not theirs to run and do with as they please......and this idiot who went public and whined about it....fire that arrogant P.O.S. right now.

Shalimar
10-01-2014, 12:37 PM
Licence and registration please.

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo106/sigp226rfan/Coyote_Fur_Mountain_Man_Hat_Full_Co_zpscf549ddc.jp g

http://www.furhatworld.com/coyote-fur-mountain-man-hat-full-coyote-pelt-p-331.html




LMAO Thanks for that laugh PD!!!! ;D

Shalimar
10-01-2014, 12:38 PM
Im disgusted that so many in the upper ranks seem to have forgotten that they do have an elected boss, and that they are still nothing more than employees when it boils right down to it. The organization is not theirs to run and do with as they please......and this idiot who went public and whined about it....fire that arrogant P.O.S. right now.

Meanwhile the CFO's make the rcmp farce look good :mad:

killer kane
10-01-2014, 05:34 PM
But the old fur hat couldn't be pulled over their faces, like a balaclava could, now you'd see their faces when they show up to steal your stuff.

ESnel
10-01-2014, 08:45 PM
If only the Swiss Arms/CZ858 ruling by the RCs was overturned rather then all this amnesty crap and convoluted rules as to taking them out shoot etc.

Foxer
10-01-2014, 10:55 PM
Well all i can say is thank god this is resolved, because without a doubt millinery concerns and related haberdashery are the biggest issues we face with the RCMP today.

Prairie Dog
10-01-2014, 10:57 PM
Well all i can say is thank god this is resolved, because without a doubt millinery concerns and related haberdashery are the biggest issues we face with the RCMP today.

Sarcasm? :)

Foxer
10-01-2014, 11:01 PM
Sarcasm? :)

Oh no, I genuinely feel that a quality modern peace force founded in community service and respect in keeping with peel's rules begins and ends with choosing the correct head covering. Now that that issue is put to bed, I'm sure we'll see improvements in officer-civilian relations.

Ok - THAT was sarcasm :)

Forbes/Hutton
10-01-2014, 11:03 PM
How is it that the RCMP will give in to a couple of hundred enviro-kooks but doesn't care what millions of gun owners think?

Anyway, time for them to move the yellow stripe to the back of the uniform.

Prairie Dog
10-01-2014, 11:04 PM
How is it that the RCMP will give in to a couple of hundred enviro-kooks but doesn't care what millions of gun owners think?



Good point. Public perception?

Foxer
10-01-2014, 11:05 PM
How is it that the RCMP will give in to a couple of hundred enviro-kooks but doesn't care what millions of gun owners think?

Check out their terror watch lists. They think the enviro-freaks are actually dangerous. They know we're not.

Gunexpert007
10-01-2014, 11:10 PM
How is it that the RCMP will give in to a couple of hundred enviro-kooks but doesn't care what millions of gun owners think?

Anyway, time for them to move the yellow stripe to the back of the uniform.

It is because the RCMP drank the Alan Rock Kool-Aid long ago ......and believe as Alan Rock does , that only the police and military should have firearms in Canada.......

L33CHW33D
10-02-2014, 07:55 AM
Licence and registration please.

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo106/sigp226rfan/Coyote_Fur_Mountain_Man_Hat_Full_Co_zpscf549ddc.jp g

http://www.furhatworld.com/coyote-fur-mountain-man-hat-full-coyote-pelt-p-331.html

Oh goodness can you imagine? We would indeed have the most ferocious looking police officers on the planet. Screw military and special forces.

THE RCMP
"We'll eat you!"

Foxer
10-02-2014, 07:59 AM
Oh goodness can you imagine? We would indeed have the most ferocious looking police officers on the planet. Screw military and special forces.

THE RCMP
"We'll eat you!"

LOL - love it :)

It COULD be quite an intimidation factor. "See this hat I'm wearing? HE was speeding too. "

Gunexpert007
10-02-2014, 10:41 AM
Oh goodness can you imagine? We would indeed have the most ferocious looking police officers on the planet. Screw military and special forces.

THE RCMP
"We'll eat you!"

Lol....no doubt the RCMP would love that hat......they like dressing up in costumes and parading around in public , it is all part of the RCMP fantasy world.....:cool1:

Shalimar
10-02-2014, 10:55 AM
Oh no, I genuinely feel that a quality modern peace force founded in community service and respect in keeping with peel's rules begins and ends with choosing the correct head covering. Now that that issue is put to bed, I'm sure we'll see improvements in officer-civilian relations.

Ok - THAT was sarcasm :)

LOL You should post that to their FB page :evil1:

Shalimar
10-02-2014, 10:56 AM
How is it that the RCMP will give in to a couple of hundred enviro-kooks but doesn't care what millions of gun owners think?

Anyway, time for them to move the yellow stripe to the back of the uniform.

They are "politically correct" and some such crap.. we are not apparently :mad1:

Shalimar
10-02-2014, 10:58 AM
LOL - love it :)

It COULD be quite an intimidation factor. "See this hat I'm wearing? HE was speeding too. "


Oh goodness can you imagine? We would indeed have the most ferocious looking police officers on the planet. Screw military and special forces.

THE RCMP
"We'll eat you!"

Priceless!!!!

:la:

ilikemoose
10-03-2014, 10:00 AM
If ever I ask myself why the RCMP seem incapable of meaningful change, I will try and remember that they can't even change a piece of seasonal headgear without causing controversy, outrage and indignant public debate.

When politicians, interest groups and the general public get so much input on something as simple as headwear how can anything meaningful improve?

pveezy
10-04-2014, 04:29 PM
I guarantee you that most of the officers who are not in an arctic environment would rather wear a regular toque with RCMP branding than the giant fur hat. Ditching the fur hat was more likely to do with cost savings and what the officers wanted, not any political reason.

The RCMP needs to get with the 21st century in their uniforms. They still have motorcycle officers wearing wool britches like the 1800s horsemen.

Haywire1
10-04-2014, 04:32 PM
They need to get into the 21st century with more than their uniforms. their ethics, standards of behaviour and how they deal with their own is needed more than a fancy new hat imho

gilmore tuttle
10-04-2014, 08:40 PM
They need to get into the 21st century with more than their uniforms. their ethics, standards of behaviour and how they deal with their own is needed more than a fancy new hat imho

Their standard of behavior? Can you be more specific? Is it in regard to their general treatment of certain groups? How have you measured this on a nationwide basis?

Haywire1
10-04-2014, 11:45 PM
Standards of behavior seems like a pretty obvious statement. Standard- a level, behaviour- how one acts.

Now as I said previously the RCMP are a national symbol, as well as a national police force and right or wrong are held to a higher expectation. IE we expect them to act in a respectful, responsible manner that symbolizes all we cherish about Canada and represents us in a good light.

There are 24,700 members according to the RCMP's own stats. That number has stayed somewhat constant over the last 10 years. Now according to their dicipline records, which can be found online, I am not doing all the work for you gilmore, they averaged roughly 88 cases a year of serious disciplinary charges. For example using a cruiser to engage in sex with prostitutes, deal drugs etc. The last year of posted data is 2012-2013 which rose to 104. That isnt counting minor offenses by the way. They also had 43 cases held over from 2011-2012 yet to deal with. Not to bad on the surface, roughly .30-.17 percent of the force facing dicipline. However, looking at the individual cases reveals sex with prostitutes, teen runaways, "looking at disturbing pornography on the cruisers computer", and in one completely abhorrent case, the molestation of a 9 year old girl. While the actual numbers are low, what they consist of is troubling. Now add in the fact there is currently 336 cases of sexual harassment facing the RCMP. A call to a friend who works in hr reveals approximately 10% of sexual harassment cases are actually reported or acted on. Basic math, and relying on the knowledge of someone who deals with those kinds of things for a living, we can estimate the number of actual sexual harassment cases at 3000. Add in the 147 "serious" cases for a total of 3147. Now the percentage of dicipline cases (inferred and confirmed) goes up to 12%.

So now we take the fact that a mindboggling 12% of the force by the numbers are an issue, and keeping that in mind we look at other things such as the pillaging of High River(under investigation but to many first hand accounts to ignore), the useless and irresponsible reclassification of the swiss arms and the cz (theoretically doubling the total number of criminals overnight), a more and more aggressive response to civilians (over reactions to minor things), and slower response times (taken from their own reports amd from talking with people in different areas) it would be my opinion that their standard of behaviour (remember gilmore, the level or benchmark of how one presents themselves) to be in need of improvement.
I think when you have child molestation, sex with underage teens, and sexual harassment cases totalling roughly 12% of your workforce, my statement about morals is rather obvious (that total doesnt include the multiple cases of perjury or falsification of evidence by the way).

As far as dealing with their own, out of 88 cases they held over 43, which means that in 2011-2012 they dealt with 45 cases. Or roughly .86 per week Canada wide. Most of those were handed 3-7 day suspensions. Show me another workforce where that would be acceptable. Now I have tried to explain both the terminology as I have used it, as well as how the information was obtained. Keeping in mind that it is my personal opinion, which I do not have justify one damned bit to anyone, I say the rcmp need to work on their standard of behavior, their morals, and how they deal with each other.

Is that specific enough for you? Now that I have addressed all your questions, if you should so choose to defend the RCMP, do so by refuting each one of my points with facts, and provide your sources, rather than your previous pattern of dropping a couple one liner questions. I am not Wikipedia, so actually make statements this time please. And considering I used the RCMP's own publicly available statistics for the majority of my points your stats and figures should prove interesting.

Gunexpert007
10-05-2014, 06:50 AM
Standards of behavior seems like a pretty obvious statement. Standard- a level, behaviour- how one acts.

Now as I said previously the RCMP are a national symbol, as well as a national police force and right or wrong are held to a higher expectation. IE we expect them to act in a respectful, responsible manner that symbolizes all we cherish about Canada and represents us in a good light.

There are 24,700 members according to the RCMP's own stats. That number has stayed somewhat constant over the last 10 years. Now according to their dicipline records, which can be found online, I am not doing all the work for you gilmore, they averaged roughly 88 cases a year of serious disciplinary charges. For example using a cruiser to engage in sex with prostitutes, deal drugs etc. The last year of posted data is 2012-2013 which rose to 104. That isnt counting minor offenses by the way. They also had 43 cases held over from 2011-2012 yet to deal with. Not to bad on the surface, roughly .30-.17 percent of the force facing dicipline. However, looking at the individual cases reveals sex with prostitutes, teen runaways, "looking at disturbing pornography on the cruisers computer", and in one completely abhorrent case, the molestation of a 9 year old girl. While the actual numbers are low, what they consist of is troubling. Now add in the fact there is currently 336 cases of sexual harassment facing the RCMP. A call to a friend who works in hr reveals approximately 10% of sexual harassment cases are actually reported or acted on. Basic math, and relying on the knowledge of someone who deals with those kinds of things for a living, we can estimate the number of actual sexual harassment cases at 3000. Add in the 147 "serious" cases for a total of 3147. Now the percentage of dicipline cases (inferred and confirmed) goes up to 12%.

So now we take the fact that a mindboggling 12% of the force by the numbers are an issue, and keeping that in mind we look at other things such as the pillaging of High River(under investigation but to many first hand accounts to ignore), the useless and irresponsible reclassification of the swiss arms and the cz (theoretically doubling the total number of criminals overnight), a more and more aggressive response to civilians (over reactions to minor things), and slower response times (taken from their own reports amd from talking with people in different areas) it would be my opinion that their standard of behaviour (remember gilmore, the level or benchmark of how one presents themselves) to be in need of improvement.
I think when you have child molestation, sex with underage teens, and sexual harassment cases totalling roughly 12% of your workforce, my statement about morals is rather obvious (that total doesnt include the multiple cases of perjury or falsification of evidence by the way).

As far as dealing with their own, out of 88 cases they held over 43, which means that in 2011-2012 they dealt with 45 cases. Or roughly .86 per week Canada wide. Most of those were handed 3-7 day suspensions. Show me another workforce where that would be acceptable. Now I have tried to explain both the terminology as I have used it, as well as how the information was obtained. Keeping in mind that it is my personal opinion, which I do not have justify one damned bit to anyone, I say the rcmp need to work on their standard of behavior, their morals, and how they deal with each other.

Is that specific enough for you? Now that I have addressed all your questions, if you should so choose to defend the RCMP, do so by refuting each one of my points with facts, and provide your sources, rather than your previous pattern of dropping a couple one liner questions. I am not Wikipedia, so actually make statements this time please. And considering I used the RCMP's own publicly available statistics for the majority of my points your stats and figures should prove interesting.

Interesting post.......and those acts of misconduct do not even include those cases handled at detachment and district level where the RCMP Officer is simply transferred , rather than pursue time consuming misconduct charges against said Officer . So many issues are covered up by both management , and front line RCMP staff , that it is impossiable to find how many problem Officers that the RCMP currently employs ........12 percent would just be the tip of the iceberg ; the actual number of criminal and civil acts being committed by RCMP members would be much higher , but they are never reported , or make it onto paper......as many in the RCMP prefer to look the other way rather than tarish the image of the force.....

Shalimar
10-05-2014, 10:09 AM
Interesting post.......and those acts of misconduct do not even include those cases handled at detachment and district level where the RCMP Officer is simply transferred , rather than pursue time consuming misconduct charges against said Officer . So many issues are covered up by both management , and front line RCMP staff , that it is impossiable to find how many problem Officers that the RCMP currently employs ........12 percent would just be the tip of the iceberg ; the actual number of criminal and civil acts being committed by RCMP members would be much higher , but they are never reported , or make it onto paper......as many in the RCMP prefer to look the other way rather than tarish the image of the force.....

A big problem for many police forces sadly... but there are thankfully a few that do their duty like that one female officer in the sex in cell case (sorry I don't recall her name). The "blue wall" is sadly all too prevalent in many cases where as it really should not exist at all. They work for us and we entrust them with authority granted by us. Hence why being held to a higher standard is what is supposed to happen.. but obviously does not anymore for the most part. :(

Gunexpert007
10-05-2014, 10:26 AM
A big problem for many police forces sadly... but there are thankfully a few that do their duty like that one female officer in the sex in cell case (sorry I don't recall her name). The "blue wall" is sadly all too prevalent in many cases where as it really should not exist at all. They work for us and we entrust them with authority granted by us. Hence why being held to a higher standard is what is supposed to happen.. but obviously does not anymore for the most part. :(

The female RCMP Officer who came forward with the information about Cpl. Brown and his merry band of sexual perverts was Cpl. Kelly Butler ; maybe they should make her Commissioner of the RCMP so she could clean up the RCMP.....she seems to be an ethical and honest RCMP Officer.......

Shalimar
10-06-2014, 10:30 AM
The female RCMP Officer who came forward with the information about Cpl. Brown and his merry band of sexual perverts was Cpl. Kelly Butler ; maybe they should make her Commissioner of the RCMP so she could clean up the RCMP.....she seems to be an ethical and honest RCMP Officer.......

Thnx for the info.. must be gettin old here.. can't remember names! lol

As for Cpl. Kelly Butler.. my hats off to her to say the least! It's nice to see for a change to say the least and given her actions and upholding her oath I would be all in favor of her being in charge of ethics etc (whatever the official title is.. assuming there is even such a thing in the rcmp anymore of course).. or if not in charge at least assigned to that area. We need to foster the good ones IMO.. before they vanish like others before them.

Lee Enfield
10-06-2014, 11:05 AM
The rcmp has around 19,000 sworn members with around 28,000 employed. We should not factor in the employees when calculating the miscreants.

We know they lie about miscreants, years ago they were found to have lied about the number of sworn members charged/convicted of DUI. If they lie about that bet they lie about everything, after all it's all about the image, LOL

Haywire1
10-06-2014, 12:46 PM
Gunexpert, that wasnt point 12 (.12) that was 12%.......
And lee, the stats the rcmp provide are for members and civvies