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View Full Version : PM's address was weak



Gaidheal
10-22-2014, 06:24 PM
This was not a time to say neener neener we're not scared of you.

This was an opportunity to say **** ***: we know who you are, we know where you are and we're coming for you. Surrender is no longer an option.

Maybe there *is* no hope for us.

Strangeday
10-22-2014, 06:55 PM
he was briefed by Paulson....how could it be anything but weak

conger
10-22-2014, 06:55 PM
It was fine.

Gaidheal
10-22-2014, 07:23 PM
It wasn't 'fine'. It was pablum. P.T. Barnum how no idea how right he was...

We are under attack from within - that requires more than a stiff upper lip and drivel.

Despite the low IQ of those who attacked - so far - this week, I'm not sure you understand the full extent of what we are up against.

the PM's address surely does not give any credence to it. So far we have seen the actions of two of the 90 on the oh-shit list... not including the driver of the car the media mentioned but hasn't followed up on. Who is he? what are his intentions?

Why is he still breathing?

What will I be angry about tomorrow?

Petamocto
10-22-2014, 07:24 PM
It was fine.

Concur that it was not weak.

It may not have been an 11/10 bravado super speech, but it wasn't weak.

One does not have to think in black or white, but if there was a fence in the middle between the two, this one would fall on the side of strong before weak.

Not being super-hard-core does not automatically make it weak.

awndray
10-22-2014, 07:27 PM
There's nothing weak about it, IMO. There's only so much the man can say at this time. There is still a lot unfolding.

lone-wolf
10-22-2014, 07:29 PM
Not being super-hard-core does not automatically make it weak.

A speech done right:


http://vimeo.com/82074066

Rory McCanuck
10-22-2014, 07:43 PM
What would a "strong" response be?
"We're gonna nuke you, your family and anyone that looks like you back to the stone age"?
Might be satisfying, but not real practical.

Strewth
10-22-2014, 07:54 PM
I liked it. He doesn't need to tip our hand on possible repercussions. He primarily honoured the valiant dead, and recognized the first responders.

conger
10-22-2014, 07:58 PM
What would a "strong" response be?
"We're gonna nuke you, your family and anyone that looks like you back to the stone age"?
Might be satisfying, but not real practical.
I agree with what you said. We aren't learning anything of the second car as Gaidheal is so worked up over, because it is likely being down played. Intel is at work doing what they do. We will probably learn some more in a few days. It seemed the Primeminister was working hard at controlling his emotions.

Tactical72
10-22-2014, 08:04 PM
I feel it was a good speech. With a couple calculated pauses at key moments, it would have been more powerful though IMO.

webster
10-22-2014, 08:26 PM
This was not a time to say neener neener we're not scared of you.

This was an opportunity to say **** ***: we know who you are, we know where you are and we're coming for you. Surrender is no longer an option.

Maybe there *is* no hope for us.

"They will have no safe haven."

Not enough for you?

Gaidheal
10-22-2014, 08:38 PM
So it's good to speak from a weak position to fool the dummies into thinking nothing is being done?

I will acquiesce so no one's feelings get hurt.

Gaidheal
10-22-2014, 08:40 PM
"They will have no safe haven."

Not enough for you?

We'll see. Any other soldier dies this week (or any other week) by another one of these f#ckers on a watch list and all bets are off. It will be the ultimate proof, won't it?

Gaidheal
10-22-2014, 08:42 PM
Might also be a good idea to start giving the troops ammo.

Before Petamocto loses a nut, that's been common knowledge since the face-off at Oka.

soulchaser
10-22-2014, 09:49 PM
It was a hell of a lot better than Trudeau's sunshine, lollipops and rainbows response.

Even after 2 attacks on Canadian soil in three days he STILL refuses to call it terrorism.

"These criminals want us to forget ourselves. We must remember ourselves"

"We must remember Canada is a peace loving country."

We are well and truly screwed if this clown gets anywhere near the Prime Ministers chair.

Mulcair's wasn't much better.

Both here:
http://www.680news.com/2014/10/22/raw-opposition-leaders-on-fatal-shooting-in-ottawa/

Rory McCanuck
10-22-2014, 10:20 PM
Actually, I thought Mulcair did well. My opinion of him hasn't changed any, but he said the right things and I almost believe him.

Turd the Twooth blathered for twice as long, and said nothing.
Anything he did say, I don't believe, other than the bit about him loving Islam.

TedNugent
10-22-2014, 10:26 PM
We'll see. Any other soldier dies this week (or any other week) by another one of these f#ckers on a watch list and all bets are off. It will be the ultimate proof, won't it?

Be hard to stop someone from committing acts like this and the previous attack on the soldiers, as the attackers are cowardly and not afraid to die. I'd say that's almost impossible for any government to stop outright.

TedNugent
10-22-2014, 10:28 PM
It was a hell of a lot better than Trudeau's sunshine, lollipops and rainbows response.

Even after 2 attacks on Canadian soil in three days he STILL refuses to call it terrorism.

"These criminals want us to forget ourselves. We must remember ourselves"

"We must remember Canada is a peace loving country."

We are well and truly screwed if this clown gets anywhere near the Prime Ministers chair.

Mulcair's wasn't much better.

Both here:
http://www.680news.com/2014/10/22/raw-opposition-leaders-on-fatal-shooting-in-ottawa/

Is it just me or does Mulcair look like some form of the devil.
It's his eyes I think, if you blacked out his eyes as they do in some horror films, it would accentuate
what I'm seeing.

TedNugent
10-22-2014, 10:41 PM
So it's good to speak from a weak position to fool the dummies into thinking nothing is being done?

I will acquiesce so no one's feelings get hurt.

Nah, I just watched it. His voice almost broke many times during the speech. I think you should watch it again and pay more attention to not just his words, but how he spoke them.

OEM
10-22-2014, 11:51 PM
The PM's speech was excellent IMO. The right balance of compassion for the victims, scorn for the perpetrators and steely resolve for the future.

It was human and real. I'm proud to have him as our country's Leader. There was none of the false bravado of Obama and thank goodness none of the limp-wristed, two-faced, sissified trudeauism.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

conger
10-23-2014, 12:00 AM
The PM's speech was excellent IMO. The right balance of compassion for the victims, scorn for the perpetrators and steely resolve for the future.

It was human and real. I'm proud to have him as our country's Leader. There was none of the false bravado of Obama and thank goodness none of the limp-wristed, two-faced, sissified trudeauism.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Well said.

Billythreefeathers
10-23-2014, 11:32 AM
having listened to it last night and then reading it today,, it was well balanced,, the PM used the right words to describe these home grown terrorists.

BruceW
10-23-2014, 01:10 PM
The PM's speech was excellent IMO. The right balance of compassion for the victims, scorn for the perpetrators and steely resolve for the future.

It was human and real. I'm proud to have him as our country's Leader. There was none of the false bravado of Obama and thank goodness none of the limp-wristed, two-faced, sissified trudeauism.

Couldn't have said it better. I thought Mulcair did very well also. Jt on the other hand, well, that saying came to mind, "Quiet justin, adults are speaking".

Petamocto
10-23-2014, 06:08 PM
Before Petamocto loses a nut, that's been common knowledge since the face-off at Oka.

I appreciate your concern for my feelings, but you are incorrect.

Different situations are different, and generate different ROE and posture profiles. Threat levels go up and down, and with them the amount of defensive capability.

I don't understand why people feel it's okay to spoonfeed this information to others who are trying to hurt us, but make no mistake, this is not my opinion here, this is law for Canadian soldiers. Violating OpSec is tantamount to negligent treason because you are giving away secrets to those who could use it to do us harm.

At any given time, our alert state is not known by everyone. It might be known by some, but it certainly hasn't stayed the same every day since Oka. In my time serving, my readiness state has ranged from "Wow, I really couldn't do anything if I got attacked right now" to "I have a round in the chamber, the safety is off, and if that guy does anything I am going to kill him". But people throwing around the details willy-nilly of when we may be at those readiness levels is making us vulnerable and needs to stop.

Same thing with the complete idiot of a reporter yesterday who started talking about where the PM was being taken after the attack.

Sometimes the troops do have ammo, and sometimes we don't. Let's not tell the bad guys when, deal?

Gaidheal
10-23-2014, 07:03 PM
Better call the media - it was most of the conversation at work today... how disgusted everyone was that Canadian soldiers are unarmed.

conger
10-23-2014, 07:51 PM
Better call the media - it was most of the conversation at work today... how disgusted everyone was that Canadian soldiers are unarmed.
So what your point? You want to dump on our military? Not everyone has the training to engage in a tactical situation. I takes years of training to handle a situation such as what happened on parliament hill. To hand out weapons and ammunition to those who aren't is dangerous and irresponsible.

harbl_the_cat
10-24-2014, 11:14 AM
My fellow Canadians, for the second time this week there has been a brutal and violent attack on our soil. Today our thoughts and prayers are with the family and friends of Cpl. Nathan Cirillo of the Argyll and Sunderland Highlanders.

Cpl. Cirillo was killed today, murdered in cold blood, as he provided a ceremonial honour guard at Canada’s National War Memorial, that sacred place that pays tribute to those who gave their lives so that we can live in a free, democratic and safe society. Likewise our thoughts and prayers remain also with the family and friends of Warrant Officer Patrice Vincent who was killed earlier this week by an ISIL [Islamic State of Iraq and Levant] inspired terrorist.

Tonight we also pray for the speedy recovery of the others injured in these despicable attacks.

Fellow Canadians, in the days to come we will learn more about the terrorist and any accomplices he many have had. But this week’s events are a grim reminder that Canada is not immune to the types of terrorist attacks we have seen elsewhere around the world.

We are also reminded that attacks on our security personnel and on our institutions of governance are by their very nature attacks on our country, on our values, on our society, on us Canadians as a free and democratic people who embrace human dignity for all.

But let there be no misunderstanding: we will not be intimidated. Canada will never be intimidated. In fact, this will lead us to strengthen our resolve and redouble our efforts, and those of our national security agencies, to take all necessary steps to identify and counter threats and keep Canada safe here at home. Just as it will lead us to strengthen our resolve and redouble our efforts to work with our allies around the world and fight against the terrorist organizations who brutalize those in other countries with the hope of bringing their savagery to our shores.

They will have no safe haven.

Well, today has been, without question, a difficult day. I have every confidence that Canadians will pull together with the kind of firm solidarity that has seen our country through many challenges. Together, we will remain vigilante against those at home or abroad who wish to harm us.

For now, Laureen, Ben and Rachel and I join all Canadians in praying for those touched by today’s attack. May God bless them and keep our land glorious and free

Given that that was a few hours after a close call in an active shooting event, I would say he did a good job. He did look visibly rattled as he gave the speech, but he presented it well.

I've been giving a LOT of thought to the PM's speech actually. Again, I don't agree with all his points - especially about a foreign policy that involves foreign intervention with our "allies," but perhaps the most poignant thing he said - while very subtle, is VERY profound. The last line of his speech.

I don't think anyone but Stephen Harper would use the word "pray" 4 times in a speech and close with an petition to the God of our national anthem - the God of the Bible (not the Koran).

I don't think anyone should really be surprised that this happened and I've heard a lot of deluded talk from people wondering how or why it could happen. Our government has been waging wars of offense for 13 years against Islamic countries, so it should really come as no surprise that agents loyal to the "Islamic State" attack this country.

Now, right or wrong, this war is the Baby Boomer war.

Gen Xers and Millennials fought it and will be paying for it for the rest of their lives, but Baby Boomer politicians oversaw it (although Paul Martin was a Silent - Stephen Harper is Boomer).

Looking at the patterns of history - this is nothing new.

William Lyon Mackenzie King was from the Missionary Generation, which lead the Lost Generation and the Greatest generation through the Great Depression and World War 2.

Now what does this all mean?

I think this puts Romans 13:1-2 in greater context:


13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

I've written a lot lately about the coming Millennial rise - particularly about the growing angst and despair among younger Millennials. It is THIS angst and despair that, in it's extreme form, leads Canadian born citizens to CHOSE to perpetrate random acts of violence, fueled by anti-establishment sentiment (Islamic Jihad is a prime example of this).

To that point - I do see the point the PM is making with this statement:


We are also reminded that attacks on our security personnel and on our institutions of governance are by their very nature attacks on our country, on our values, on our society, on us Canadians as a free and democratic people who embrace human dignity for all.

The institutions of governance are the same Paul was talking about in Roman 13 - and if they were around 2000 years ago and are still here today, they will be around 20 years from now.

I don't know what those institutions will look like - but I DO know that it will be Gen X'ers and Millenials in charge.

To that end, I'm reminded of a quote from Mark Twain:


Loyalty to the country always. Loyalty to the government when it deserves it.

Canada is a great country. I might not think the government of this country as such, but the government is merely a reflection of what makes this country great: the people.

While my animosity towards the government stems from the fundamental difference of morals between those who chose this government (mainly, the Baby Boomer demographic) the patterns of history and Canada's democratic traditions make it clear that the time to change that WILL come.

In the meantime, there's no sense "rebelling against authority," as the time will come eventually when "authority" WILL actually reflect my morals. When that time comes, I pray I will have trained up those who come after me to come to that same realization.

Knowing this - this is why I pledge my loyalty to Canada, not as a geo-political entity, but as a system of people with established values (and laws) that recognize the supremacy of God and the rule of law.

That's what I took from the PM's address - which is why I don't think it was weak at all.

I think it was a good speech that restored much of my confidence in him as our nations leader.