PDA

View Full Version : Best bang for your buck AR



Prairie Dog
05-16-2012, 01:11 PM
As the title suggests, what is, in your opinion, the best AR? Colt, Noveske, LMT, Bushmaster, Rock River etc? (just to name a few) Or dollar for dollar, pound for pound is it the lowly Norinco? Or do you have to build your own? A lower from ABC, upper from XYZ, barrel and other components from the ACME catalogue.

Opinions are bound to be many and varied and I'd like to hear yours.

jdman
05-16-2012, 01:17 PM
Id go with NEA.....................


Ok no i am joking....Nothing wrong with a nork. I have a 14.5 that i have had for 3-4 years, not a single issue with it at all....ever....

Is money no object? If not you are prolly a bit of a snob, and would never buy a Chinese rifle. :P

I have started building a second AR, i have put exactly 215$,(100$ for lower, 50$ for LPK, 65$ for an A2 stock assby.) and have a complete brand new lower, built to my liking.

So it is hard to say, time will tell if i can build a better rifle then nork can for cheaper. Once i build the upper i will let you know. :P

lone-wolf
05-16-2012, 01:38 PM
I'm building mine. The upper at least. Eventually.

mlehto
05-16-2012, 01:49 PM
Accuracy wise my Remington R15 shoots better than a lot of my bolt actions!

If you don't mind the camo, its a hell of a deal, at $1100.

50calshooter
05-16-2012, 02:56 PM
Tough question, totally depends on how much you wanna spend....


The value brands these days are the Norinco's, the basic LMT's and CORE15's, I didnt say NEA because IMO they still have some work to do before I'd recommend their rifle to anyone.

jwirecom109
05-16-2012, 03:16 PM
Entry level LMT is my suggestion

jdman
05-16-2012, 03:20 PM
Entry level LMT is my suggestion

Have you seen Blaxsuns thread on the BBL he picked up from Questar, on CGN? :O

50calshooter
05-16-2012, 03:39 PM
Have you seen Blaxsuns thread on the BBL he picked up from Questar, on CGN? :O



Im banned what was the jist of it?

jdman
05-16-2012, 04:11 PM
you are banned???

Anyways..... he bought a "new" 13.5 inch LMT 308 BBL, it came with rust, scratched, as well as some serious gouges inside the BBL. He was basically told to pound sand, no refund for you. He started numerous threads, that all magically kept getting deleted/moved to Questars area where they would delete/lock them. They told him sorry it can go back to LMT for warranty, which will take till the end of the year at best to get it back, and siince they were a one off deal, iirc 50 made, there would be no replacement.
Questar admitted they took pics b4 sending it, and said it was "consistent" with other BBL's they have had.

After much boycotting, slagging them, he was eventually given a refund......

Redhouse
05-16-2012, 10:17 PM
$700 - Norc - haven't owned one. Would not be scared to, feedback is generally good.

<$1100 - I own a Core15 basic gas model. Fit & finish is super tight and crisp. Comes w no rear site. Remington as mentioned above are usually touted as good shooters. DPMS rifles can be had under 1000 new, the flash hiders are welded on and there haven't been many reports on their shootability yet. Used, you can get several brands in this range including Armalite, for example.

$1500 - mix n match, can have just about any configuration you want, can spend well into the $3000+ range for a factory rifle.

BuckingFastard
05-17-2012, 10:16 AM
Entry level LMT is my suggestion
X2
And I've seen jay's threads, IMO lmt isn't at fault, the cosmetics on the outside of the barrel were obviously done in careless shipping and handling before it got to blaxsun. The gouges in the chrome lining? well it's hard to say what happened there but it should of been caught at the factory and then at the distributor. I've seen in the past where lmt stepped up to plate and made right on their product, 50cal can vouche for that. Questar dropped the ball, glad they gave a refund in the end but left a bitter taste in a lot of people mouths.

harbl_the_cat
05-17-2012, 10:38 AM
The 3 Norc CQ's I've had have been generally good, even though the first one I bought was one of the early batch ones being sold for $900 and the paint job on it really sucked.

Machining and finishing on them leaves a little to be desired but I think is purely cosmetic. Shooting prone with a cheap airsoft bipod, I can get 1" at 100 yards, 3" at 200 - I think the gun can do better and it's all on me.

Prairie Dog
05-17-2012, 10:45 PM
I knew there was one other that I wanted to mention, kinda sorta new kid on the block. STI.

http://www.stiguns.com/products/guns/rifles/

Redhouse
05-17-2012, 11:01 PM
Yeah, Phoenix has them on the wall for $1500 iirc. There's almost no feedback on them, at least in Canada....I don't know if they are just new to us, or if they are overall new to the AR15 game.

I looked one over when I was shopping, and still learning what I was looking at....if I went back and had a look now, I'd have a much better idea of what I was looking at, and could form an opinion. My expectation is that a) offshore b) probably decent quality, like the STI pistol range. That is not an opinion, just a guess.

jwirecom109
05-18-2012, 09:12 AM
I know that Jackamo bought a Questar AR-15 its held up very well, and shoots great.

Too bad that it seems like that was a one time thing.

As for the LMT issue with Jay (blaxsun). You can't judge one rifle for the entire line, jeez if we only every got one chance to get something right, well I know i'd be screwed :D

boomboy
05-18-2012, 05:28 PM
Daniel Defence m4's seem to be rock solid at least from what I've read. They'd be what my hard earned dollars would be buying right now if I didn't have other priorities.

CORE15 Shooter
11-06-2012, 10:36 AM
CORE 15.
Bought the rifle, toured the factory and got the T shirt! Nice guys and high tech CNC manufacturing/QC.

Satain
11-06-2012, 02:51 PM
CORE 15.
Bought the rifle, toured the factory and got the T shirt! Nice guys and high tech CNC manufacturing/QC.
Agree but D&D is a nice life time purchase too. Lotz of great stuff in country now day's. The best thing I can say is do your research & see what works for you best. As these rifles are like lego's. ;)
Plus 50Cal I think Questar is buying up LMT defect's and sells them to us as preminum spare part's. I too got burned from Questar after waiting 6 months and paying a preminum for it to I might add, then I got a nicely used bolt.

Ric O'Shea
11-24-2012, 08:15 PM
Have you seen Blaxsuns thread on the BBL he picked up from Questar, on CGN? :O

Actually I PM'ed him about that before I bought my LMT. The situation was looked after to his satisfaction. I love my LMT!

Youngfreshtoodeath
03-16-2013, 04:57 AM
Best AR?
Tough one... Noveske and knights would have to fight that one out.

mg4201
03-16-2013, 11:53 AM
Best bang for the buck has to be norinco cq series. best overall, I think thats a personal choice.

Epoxy7
03-19-2013, 03:13 AM
Tough question, totally depends on how much you wanna spend....


The value brands these days are the Norinco's, the basic LMT's and CORE15's, I didnt say NEA because IMO they still have some work to do before I'd recommend their rifle to anyone.

Have to agree with this.

I'd add a basic Armalite in there and a basic Stag. I consider the Stag a well known but often overlooked AR15.

The NEA will be decent in a few years. The new free float handguard is what was expected when the rifle was released. Which really sucks for those with the first version as it will be instantly devalued when the new ones come out. This probably won't happen for another few months or so. They still need to change the lower to 7075. They've gone to a milspec buffer tube so that's a plus. In a few years the NEA rifle will be something I would consider. That being said while the customer service seems to be good by all reports (too many reports frankly of people requiring this) I'm still not real fond of the sales tactics or company propaganda techniques. It's sort of like giving a used car salesman the benefit of the doubt. But when it's a good product and reports are favourable it would be something worth considering. They aren't there yet in my opinion.

Epoxy7
03-19-2013, 03:18 AM
Have you seen Blaxsuns thread on the BBL he picked up from Questar, on CGN? :O

Yet the LMT mrp and LMT MWS rifles I own are beautiful. I recommend going SS barrels for these to take full advantage of their potential.

Blaxsun's experience seems to be an isolated (yet no doubt very annoying) case. My experience has been great.

Sadosubliminal
03-19-2013, 07:52 AM
Daniel Defence m4's seem to be rock solid at least from what I've read. They'd be what my hard earned dollars would be buying right now if I didn't have other priorities.

X2 I don't yet own an AR, but for my budget, this is where I would look first based on what I've been told and what I've read.

Strewth
03-19-2013, 08:46 AM
X2 I don't yet own an AR, but for my budget, this is where I would look first based on what I've been told and what I've read.

x3 I don't have one yet either, but budget and customer satisfaction point me this way....although Dlask has something cooking....

Prairie Dog
03-19-2013, 10:33 AM
Since starting this thread I purchased a DPMS Oracle and complete .22 upper. I have been quite pleased with this set up despite the poor reviews that it gets on the US forums. The rifle has functioned flawlessly and the .22 upper is quite possibly the most accurate semi auto rimfire that I have owned.

John_in_BC
03-19-2013, 03:33 PM
Prairie Dog, now you have me rethinking!!! dammit! I was just set to buy a Windham Weaponry AR over the DPMS Oracle. I was thinking of the Oracle, but the WW has a heavy barrel and the rail on the gas block is the same height as the main upper rail. the barrel to me is worth the $250 price difference, but now you have me second guessing!

50calshooter
03-19-2013, 07:12 PM
Have to agree with this.

I'd add a basic Armalite in there and a basic Stag. I consider the Stag a well known but often overlooked AR15.

The NEA will be decent in a few years. The new free float handguard is what was expected when the rifle was released. Which really sucks for those with the first version as it will be instantly devalued when the new ones come out. This probably won't happen for another few months or so. They still need to change the lower to 7075. They've gone to a milspec buffer tube so that's a plus. In a few years the NEA rifle will be something I would consider. That being said while the customer service seems to be good by all reports (too many reports frankly of people requiring this) I'm still not real fond of the sales tactics or company propaganda techniques. It's sort of like giving a used car salesman the benefit of the doubt. But when it's a good product and reports are favourable it would be something worth considering. They aren't there yet in my opinion.


I'd like to offer an update on that statement I made nearly a year ago with regards to the NEA rifle...

A buddy of mine bought one late last year and I got a chance to examine it up close. I have to say, it's actually come a long way since the very first one I held way back when they first came out. The machining was better and all the past issues seem to have been worked out. The BCG was properly staked, proper weight mil-spec trigger and like I said, the overall finish was a lot nicer. For my buddy and the other NEA owners out there, the guns have been running solid. Even into the new year, the newer rifles I've seen/handled I experienced the same findings, it appears that they've come full circle and are now starting to produce on a more consistent level. Quite honestly, I'm very impressed with what NEA has accomplished over the past year.

As of about two months ago, and after some long discussions with the NEA owners, I've decided that I'm going to carry the NEA rifle line at RDSC. Based on what I'm seeing, I have no more reasons or concerns that would make me steer clear of their rifles. Based on current production, the NEA rifle offers solid bang for the buck, for an entry level gun. Anything that's going to be on my shelves, for sale in my building, has got to pass my expectations of what I want to see in a rifle, I refuse to sell crap. So again, based on what I've seen with NEA, not only their guns but their continued growth as a company, my opinion has changed.

I've actually decided to run an NEA gun on the range as a rental, that way we can really back up the rifle with some real world abuse. The NEA line is something that I will continue to keep my eye on.

BuckingFastard
03-19-2013, 08:07 PM
I'd like to offer an update on that statement I made nearly a year ago with regards to the NEA rifle...

A buddy of mine bought one late last year and I got a chance to examine it up close. I have to say, it's actually come a long way since the very first one I held way back when they first came out. The machining was better and all the past issues seem to have been worked out. The BCG was properly staked, proper weight mil-spec trigger and like I said, the overall finish was a lot nicer. For my buddy and the other NEA owners out there, the guns have been running solid. Even into the new year, the newer rifles I've seen/handled I experienced the same findings, it appears that they've come full circle and are now starting to produce on a more consistent level. Quite honestly, I'm very impressed with what NEA has accomplished over the past year.

As of about two months ago, and after some long discussions with the NEA owners, I've decided that I'm going to carry the NEA rifle line at RDSC. Based on what I'm seeing, I have no more reasons or concerns that would make me steer clear of their rifles. Based on current production, the NEA rifle offers solid bang for the buck, for an entry level gun. Anything that's going to be on my shelves, for sale in my building, has got to pass my expectations of what I want to see in a rifle, I refuse to sell crap. So again, based on what I've seen with NEA, not only their guns but their continued growth as a company, my opinion has changed.

I've actually decided to run an NEA gun on the range as a rental, that way we can really back up the rifle with some real world abuse. The NEA line is something that I will continue to keep my eye on.

So their not par with the norinco's anymore :pot:

John_in_BC
03-19-2013, 09:10 PM
50cal, Im on the hunt for an inexpensive AR, M4 style, have you got a link to your site or ??

50calshooter
03-19-2013, 09:22 PM
50cal, Im on the hunt for an inexpensive AR, M4 style, have you got a link to your site or ??

www.rdshootingcentre.ca, sorry no online inventory yet, our facility is still under construction. Late spring grand open is what we're working towards.

But feel free to email me, I can work with you directly to get you what you're looking for... derek@rdshootingcentre.ca

John_in_BC
03-19-2013, 10:50 PM
done

EaZ8
03-20-2013, 08:25 PM
a freinds just tried to buy a NEA and was told the backorder is now pushing closer to the 1 year mark.

check out rainer arms. $330 for a matched upper and lower, $100 LPK, $160 rail $250 barrel, gas tube and block $50 then $200 NiB BCG... done....and a nice setup.

lone-wolf
03-20-2013, 08:31 PM
Where can you get rainer arms in canada?

jwirecom109
03-20-2013, 08:43 PM
One shot tactical

EaZ8
03-20-2013, 08:44 PM
i emailed them directly and was told that one shot was getting them in very soon.
after checking one shots light... yup... theya re on there. but "coming soon"
i hope they bring in a 16" barrel in 556 or wyld... ive got a upper just waiting for it.

so ide guess within 4 weeks they should be good to order.

lone-wolf
03-20-2013, 08:47 PM
Would be nicer @ the rainier arm's website price, but $340 seems good.

Crane Guy
03-20-2013, 10:49 PM
My personal opinion on the best ARís would be LWRC, Knights, pre-ban LMT, Sabre Defense, PWS or HK in no particular order. Iím not a fan of any ďVĒ series Daniel Defense ARís but that new Mk18 that they just released would be on this list. Iíve owned one of the first Daniel Defense ARís that got into the country and really regret selling it. The reason why I didnít say Noveske is because they use a Vltor upper. (Yes, Iím one of those guys lol)

The best bang for your buck AR would only be a Stag. Thereís absolutely no hate towards other manufacturers, this is all just my opinion. Very few manufacturers can cater to everybodyís taste so a base model Stag for just under $1300 (Arms East) would be perfect for anyone to add personal accessories to. If thatís still out of your price range, I would say to wait a bit longer and save up. Donít settle for something that will make you question your decision over and over again. Iíve gone through (not a lot but...) enough buying and selling of ARís to share this info. Re-sale value is one of the main reasons why I chose to buy any firearm. Buy once, buy right - in the end, cheap is expensive

blaxsun
03-21-2013, 03:26 PM
^ x1 Stag.

Epoxy7
03-23-2013, 04:32 PM
I'd like to offer an update on that statement I made nearly a year ago with regards to the NEA rifle...

A buddy of mine bought one late last year and I got a chance to examine it up close. I have to say, it's actually come a long way since the very first one I held way back when they first came out. The machining was better and all the past issues seem to have been worked out. The BCG was properly staked, proper weight mil-spec trigger and like I said, the overall finish was a lot nicer. For my buddy and the other NEA owners out there, the guns have been running solid. Even into the new year, the newer rifles I've seen/handled I experienced the same findings, it appears that they've come full circle and are now starting to produce on a more consistent level. Quite honestly, I'm very impressed with what NEA has accomplished over the past year.

As of about two months ago, and after some long discussions with the NEA owners, I've decided that I'm going to carry the NEA rifle line at RDSC. Based on what I'm seeing, I have no more reasons or concerns that would make me steer clear of their rifles. Based on current production, the NEA rifle offers solid bang for the buck, for an entry level gun. Anything that's going to be on my shelves, for sale in my building, has got to pass my expectations of what I want to see in a rifle, I refuse to sell crap. So again, based on what I've seen with NEA, not only their guns but their continued growth as a company, my opinion has changed.

I've actually decided to run an NEA gun on the range as a rental, that way we can really back up the rifle with some real world abuse. The NEA line is something that I will continue to keep my eye on.

I would only sell ones with the new handguard. It looks significantly better and those buying the old one will find their rifles instantly devalued once the new ones are for sale.

I could see selling them now as a low budget AR. There's been enough time for them to get things right. That being said after all the BS on another site with them the price better be very good. The trust for the dealers is there just not with NEA in terms of how they present the product or deal with criticism. Once they get the lower to 7075 they will be a real contender providing everything keeps going well.

3MTA3
03-24-2013, 07:22 AM
Norc CQ-A

mg4201
03-24-2013, 11:07 AM
I would only sell ones with the new handguard. It looks significantly better and those buying the old one will find their rifles instantly devalued once the new ones are for sale.

I could see selling them now as a low budget AR. There's been enough time for them to get things right. That being said after all the BS on another site with them the price better be very good. The trust for the dealers is there just not with NEA in terms of how they present the product or deal with criticism. Once they get the lower to 7075 they will be a real contender providing everything keeps going well.

Do you think they have figured out how to drill holes on size yet?

doubletap78
03-26-2013, 01:13 AM
I picked up a rock River for my first ar, which wasn't a bad choice. But the problem is that all the money I poured into it I will never see anything close to it back. But would I buy it again. Probably not since the availability of AR's ismuch more is possible nowadays

jwirecom109
03-26-2013, 06:06 AM
But the problem is that all the money I poured into it I will never see anything close to it back.

Isn't that the truth, between the AR as it came, the upgrades, mags (pre-craziness) and optics that I have on it I'm into it for over 3k.
If I needed to sell it today it would be hard to get what I wanted for it.
But then again I'm not really looking to do that anytime soon.

Epoxy7
03-26-2013, 06:12 AM
Do you think they have figured out how to drill holes on size yet?

That was last week. Some old stock accidentally went out the door. It's new and improved yet again!!

All joking aside. Have to admit I wasn't up on the roll pin size issue. They do however seem to respond to problems quickly so hopefully it's already taken care of?

Until the new handguard is standard I wouldn't buy one. After Id take a look. But yes Id still do my homework first.

Camo tung
03-26-2013, 09:04 AM
Prairie Dog, now you have me rethinking!!! dammit! I was just set to buy a Windham Weaponry AR over the DPMS Oracle. I was thinking of the Oracle, but the WW has a heavy barrel and the rail on the gas block is the same height as the main upper rail. the barrel to me is worth the $250 price difference, but now you have me second guessing!

I can vouch for "dawg's Oracle...I have shot it in both configurations, .223 & .22 and was very impressed. Good fit between upper and lowers in each case, no FTF in either config. The .22 upper is a semi-bull and amazingly accurate. He's no slouch at 100 yds with the .223 upper either! I read all of the poo-poo reviews on many U.S. boards and in the end picked up a DPMS Panther TAC-2 from P&D and am VERY happy with it. WW was going to be my second choice.

Having the opportunity to try a manufacturer's product out first-hand convinced me. That and the fact that my life doesn't depend on my choice of manufacturer, it's a range toy.

Prairie Dog
03-26-2013, 12:22 PM
Thanks CT, you just happened to catch me on a good day. :)

blaxsun
03-26-2013, 07:24 PM
Shouldn't the thread title just be changed to 'Norc'? ;)

3MTA3
04-06-2013, 03:02 PM
Shouldn't the thread title just be changed to 'Norc'? ;)

hellyeah

walperstyle
04-26-2013, 01:00 AM
Friends of mine down south (Marine corp dudes) kept badgering me to get an AR15/M4 variant. So I went and took my restricted just lately, however, due to the laws here in Canada regarding Restricted (pretty much requiring you keep them at the range, or your house, and you don't dare discharge anywhere its not authorized)... I think instead of purchasing a ar15, I'm going to get a RA XCR-M in .308

Why? Its non-restricted, and I can go to some family who own a few sections of land be perfectly legal to shoot, as well as hunt. I don't think our laws make sense at all... but being on the right side of them is getting to be more important with age.

But yeah, I wish I lived in Arizona. Grain of salt with everything eh boys? haha.

Epoxy7
04-27-2013, 06:02 AM
Friends of mine down south (Marine corp dudes) kept badgering me to get an AR15/M4 variant. So I went and took my restricted just lately, however, due to the laws here in Canada regarding Restricted (pretty much requiring you keep them at the range, or your house, and you don't dare discharge anywhere its not authorized)... I think instead of purchasing a ar15, I'm going to get a RA XCR-M in .308

Why? Its non-restricted, and I can go to some family who own a few sections of land be perfectly legal to shoot, as well as hunt. I don't think our laws make sense at all... but being on the right side of them is getting to be more important with age.

But yeah, I wish I lived in Arizona. Grain of salt with everything eh boys? haha.

The fact the AR is restricted is ridiculous. A rifle that's extremely popular in the US for hunting, varminting and sport shooting was presented as having no sporting use?

I understand the none restricted status appeal of the XCR-M but you should realize they aren't light weight carbines. Bench and prone shooting is where most will feel most comfortable with the XCR-M. With a CL barrel and piston system you might be disapointed. The AR10 with a SS match barrel while also bigger and heavier will shoot .5 moa. So the performance is there.

Even though they are restricted the AR rifles are still worth owning. Get a mini14 target model and spent the rest on a nice AR!! Or get the XCR-M with plans to later add an AR.

Angryaires
04-27-2013, 11:04 AM
Never norinco!!! I had one and was the worst p.o.s. ever. It constantly jammed and I basically rebuilt it with parts from ATRS before it would work properly. I sold it and now have a adcore bear upper on a ATRS gen 4 lower. And it's a beautiful thing! You get what you pay for and if you want a bunch of headaches and hating the gun you buy go cheap. I will never buy another thing from china.

Satain
04-28-2013, 01:38 AM
:agree:
Adcor rocks but you didn't hear it from me :D

The fact the AR is restricted is ridiculous. A rifle that's extremely popular in the US for hunting, varminting and sport shooting was presented as having no sporting use?

I understand the none restricted status appeal of the XCR-M but you should realize they aren't light weight carbines. Bench and prone shooting is where most will feel most comfortable with the XCR-M. With a CL barrel and piston system you might be disapointed. The AR10 with a SS match barrel while also bigger and heavier will shoot .5 moa. So the performance is there.

Even though they are restricted the AR rifles are still worth owning. Get a mini14 target model and spent the rest on a nice AR!! Or get the XCR-M with plans to later add an AR.
Ya well its the RCMP's fault :tounge:
LoL!!!
Sorry had 2 jab you on that one ;)

ReignCzech
04-28-2013, 03:33 AM
best bang for your buck AR is these polymer and fiber reinforced 3D printed AR lowers, 25-35 bucks cost to print, and can last 1000 rnds. thats not even speaking of the aluminum, titanium or steel reinforced.
serial numbers??... sure # "this is my rifle, blow me, it is mine", registration??,... they can disappear in a camp fire out back....... :D
mags, and so much more, the same deal.

figure once canada gets flooded with these, the AR's will be on the chopping block to lose it's restricted status,!.

pointless for insignificant serial numbers and paperwork/database info, there will be little to no way to have control.

just wait,... the glock frames!

error.... system overload.... system over-ridden... system defunct.... system crash..... :D

figure soon the days will come when, here in/with the rather suppressed archaic thought and implementation of our rules/laws RCMP CFC will have to politely ask the population to conform to these, illogical, twisted broken acts, bills, and amendments, and/or finally agree to sit down and completely re-write the dinosaur logic written in the above aforementioned.

with 3D scanning, 3D printing, obviously autoCad, etc.etc.../ CNC and basic manual machining... goodbye with the gross canadian markup prices from retailers, the wait times,... you can scan, print, machine your own, after-all it is completely legal for each and every canadian to make their own, parts, accessories, and firearms!
You need a PAL to register a firearm...... hmmmmm.
perhaps commercially produced firearms, parts, accessories will become the antiques!, heh, heh.

What a beautiful sight... the corrosion of conformity.

Epoxy7
04-29-2013, 06:35 PM
:agree:
Adcor rocks but you didn't hear it from me :D

Ya well its the RCMP's fault :tounge:
LoL!!!
Sorry had 2 jab you on that one ;)

Fond of my ADCOR rifles as well.

RCMP fault? They didn't create the OIC or have the AR restricted by name. That was thanks to the politicians. What do you expect when you decide to have a committee involving a bunch of "stakeholders" with only the one group that's about to get screwed actually knowing anything about the topic? It was nice of them though to completely screw firearms owners over with C-68 and invite us to the raping so firearms owners could then be considered "consulted". I guess that was their idea of offering lube.