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awndray
12-10-2014, 09:40 AM
Ontario’s auditor general is sounding the alarm about the province’s ballooning debt in her annual report, warning that it continues to grow faster than the province’s economy.

In her 600-page annual report released Tuesday, Bonnie Lysyk cautioned that despite Ontario’s work to eliminate its deficit, the province’s rising net debt — the difference between its liabilities and its total assets — could have a number of negative implications for its finances in the future.

Ontario’s majority Liberal government has pledged to eliminate its $12.5-billion deficit by 2017-18. But by that year, the province’s net debt will have soared to $325 billion — more than double the $156.6 billion a decade ago, Lysyk’s report estimated.

“To put this in perspective, to eliminate Ontario’s 2017-18 estimated net debt, every man, woman and child in Ontario would need to contribute $23,000 to the provincial coffers,” Lysyk said in her report.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/12/09/ontario-auditor-general-sounds-alarm-over-provinces-growing-debt-325-billion-by-2018/


Ontario government programs that we examined didn’t always provide value for money or deliver services as effectively as the public has the right to expect, Auditor General Bonnie Lysyk said following the release today of her 2014 Annual Report.

“Both of these two issues were at the heart of the 12 value-for-money audit reports we prepared this year,” she said after tabling the 600-page Annual Report, her second since becoming Auditor General in 2013.

In some areas, taxpayers did not get value for money from the large amounts of public money spent. In other cases, services were not delivered as effectively as Ontarians have a right to expect.”

Among the findings in this year’s Annual Report:

Although nearly $2 billion was spent to install new “smart” electricity meters across the province, the government’s stated objectives of reducing power demand at peak times and eliminating the need for new sources of power are not being met.
The Alternative Financing and Procurement (AFP) approach used by Infrastructure Ontario assumed that the public sector would not have been able to successfully deliver 74 infrastructure projects on time and on budget. Specifically, Infrastructure Ontario’s AFP approach assumes that the risks of cost overruns and delays are about five times higher when the public sector manages infrastructure projects. The AFP approach assumed that it would be reasonable for taxpayers to incur an estimated $8 billion more (including $6.5 billion in higher financing costs) to have this work done by the private sector on time and on budget.
The Provincial Nominee Program lacks effective controls to mitigate the risk that people who are not qualified for the immigration program are nonetheless being admitted, and provincial officials didn’t always report attempted immigration fraud to federal authorities or law enforcement.
Infrastructure Ontario’s Loans Program made a higher-risk loan of $216 million to a subsidiary of the MaRS Discovery District, a not-for-profit organization, but the ultimate costs and benefits of this loan are unclear.
The Financial Services Commission of Ontario needs to better address the growing level of underfunding in defined-benefit pension plans in Ontario to better protect the 2.8 million members of these plans.
The Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services needs to improve its supervision of, and rehabilitation programs for, adult offenders serving their sentences in the community to reduce the risk to the public and lower the reoffend rate.
The Ministry of Education needs to do significantly more to reduce the incidence of serious occurrences at licensed daycares by strengthening inspection processes and related enforcement actions.
The province has not inspected 45% of residences for people with developmental disabilities since at least 2010, creating risks. Wait lists are high, and provincial funding to homes is based on an outdated funding model rather than the needs of individuals.
Fourteen years after a Commission of Inquiry that followed the Walkerton drinking-water tragedy recommended adoption of source-water protection plans, Ontario still does not have many of the plans in place, nor timelines for implementing the policies recommended in the plans.
The Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care lacks good information to monitor whether its Immunization Program operates in a cost-effective manner. For example, the Ministry does not track information on the total costs of delivering the program; nor does it have a reliable system for tracking immunization records.
The Ontario Energy Board needs to do more to verify the information submitted by gas utilities in their applications for rate increases. The Board should more fully assess the different approaches gas utilities use to recover their costs because this has a direct impact on the rates charged to consumers.
There is no co-ordinated system for Palliative Care services in Ontario. The Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care needs to gather more information on the services available across the province, as well as about the costs of services, patients’ needs and what mix of services would best serve those needs in a cost-effective way.

http://www.auditor.on.ca/en/reports_en.htm

blacksmithden
12-10-2014, 09:58 AM
I got about half way through and decided that it was just better to stop reading rather than finish it and feel angry and sick all day. I just cant figure out what its going to take to get Ontarioians to burn down Queens park.I mean, really....if this was 100 years ago, half the politicians would be homeless and wearing feathers while the rest would be running for their lives. I guess the power will have to go off and the food stores go empty before the liberals really have anything to fear.

Waterloomike
12-10-2014, 10:44 AM
In ontario, stupid is the new smart.

Kane63
12-10-2014, 11:18 AM
I heard all this on the radio this morning. Ruined my drive in. I have a similar sentiment to BSD, just where is the boiling point? I thought the place should have been burnt down while Dalton was still around. I still can't believe these POS have a majority!

L33CHW33D
12-10-2014, 11:41 AM
When I finished school a year and a half ago I applied at I think 20 hospitals, 1/2 in BC, one or two in Nova Scotia (no offence but glad that didn't work out either), and the rest in Alberta but not a single one was in Ontario. :GJ And that's where I'm originally from. Mother wasn't happy but my bank account and my "internal happiness meter" was. I'm so glad I got out of there as when I did, it was the best thing that my wife and I could have done was move here to Southern Alberta.

stevesummit
12-10-2014, 11:57 AM
Everyone that lives there and accepts this is to blame The "eyes wide shut" syndrome is hitting hard .

It's funy cause after the last storm we had me and the wife were at her xmas party and there was a couple guys there from Ontario and they were bitching about how poor the roads were and that in Ontario they would never let the roads be that bad . So I just had to mention that this could be some of why they were here to work and also why when it comes to the bottom line we are better off on our debt overall . They disputed the fact and tried to come back with Ontario is the Center of the world and we revolve around it .

Waterloomike
12-10-2014, 12:04 PM
Everyone that lives there and accepts this is to blame The "eyes wide shut" syndrome is hitting hard .

It's funy cause after the last storm we had me and the wife were at her xmas party and there was a couple guys there from Ontario and they were bitching about how poor the roads were and that in Ontario they would never let the roads be that bad . So I just had to mention that this could be some of why they were here to work and also why when it comes to the bottom line we are better off on our debt overall . They disputed the fact and tried to come back with Ontario is the Center of the world and we revolve around it .

The libs have wasted far more than enough to maintain the roads. Every city and municipal government in the province, just about, is as wasteful as the provincial gov.

Here in waterloo, the cost to service the debt is $62 million a year. And that does not include the new ion lrt project.

They have all, quite iterally, lost their effin minds.

awndray
12-10-2014, 12:47 PM
$162+M here in Ottawa, and growing with our LRT project. Ugh

Waterloomike
12-10-2014, 01:18 PM
$162+M here in Ottawa, and growing with our LRT project. Ugh

This is Ottawa's 2nd kick at the can with the lrt. If you go over where the riverside hospital used to be, you can see the berms they built.

I hear the sens may be moving down to lebreton flats. That's good.

awndray
12-10-2014, 01:23 PM
Indeed. I'm sure Ottawa will find a way to mucked it up. Again.

stevesummit
12-10-2014, 02:23 PM
So I'll ask this of the more savy politics guys on here , what has to be done to get them to see the road they are stuck up to the axels on and get things turned onto a better road ? In my house we plan on an average amount of money , not including overtime and base our expenses off of this formula.

Edenchef
12-10-2014, 02:36 PM
As far as I figure it. They are working on the theory that if you stick you head far enough up your a_s; eventually you see daylight.

And now they are going to create the Ontario Pension Plan.....see......we can mismanage even more of your money, for you.

Cheers!

Waterloomike
12-10-2014, 02:39 PM
So I'll ask this of the more savy politics guys on here , what has to be done to get them to see the road they are stuck up to the axels on and get things turned onto a better road ? In my house we plan on an average amount of money , not including overtime and base our expenses off of this formula.

As long as they can vote themselves money, they can do anything they want, no matter how stupid and irresponsible it is.

There has to be consequences for lack of accountability that hurt them bad, and there has to be clear limit on their power.

Edenchef
12-10-2014, 03:10 PM
As long as they can vote themselves money, they can do anything they want, no matter how stupid and irresponsible it is.

There has to be consequences for lack of accountability that hurt them bad, and there has to be clear limit on their power.

And there it is! Does anyone believe that these as__ats will go hungry or lose their fat pensions; while the mere plebs are begging, because the province is bankrupt? They spend our money like drunken sailors and then nothing happens to them, personally. No jail time, No hardship, nothing. They go right on enjoying the "good" life; while the masses suffer. This is just wrong on so many levels. Where is a "Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch" when it could really do some good. JMHO

Cheers!

harbl_the_cat
12-10-2014, 03:21 PM
It's ok... Alberta can Ontario them out... oh wait...

Stevebot-7
12-10-2014, 03:37 PM
Well, in one respect they're keeping their word, they are eliminating that 12.5 billion dollar debt...by feeding it and letting it grow out of proportions.

There needs to be consequences for spending too much money. I could go out and max my visa cards, buy some sweet guns, eat $100 steaks every night and $200 a glass scotch, maybe pick up some chicks...and then my line of credit would be cut off, not only that but I would be on the hook for repaying that money. Repo men would come to take back the things I bought with borrowed money.

Now, I know it's kinda counterproductive for the construction companies to roll back in and tear up a road, or dismantle a building to salvage the materials, but there needs to be some measure in place to ensure that politicians and bureaucrats can't run wild with no consequences. If they are living on borrowed money, the lenders should have rights to demand compensation.

Edward Teach
12-10-2014, 04:43 PM
there needs to be some measure in place to ensure that politicians and bureaucrats can't run wild with no consequences.

It's called a gallows.

Edenchef
12-10-2014, 04:45 PM
Or a guillotine. Just let them eat that cake.

Cheers!

Waterloomike
12-10-2014, 04:53 PM
Or a guillotine. Just let them eat that cake.

Cheers!

Too nice.

let them eat what they feed us.

Petamocto
12-10-2014, 06:17 PM
The worst part is that it was all made very public that a certain party was already screwing up the provinces finances during the last election, yet us stupid voters gave them a majority to accelerate the downward momentum.

We get the government we want and deserve.

Foxer
12-10-2014, 07:00 PM
So I'll ask this of the more savy politics guys on here , what has to be done to get them to see the road they are stuck up to the axels on and get things turned onto a better road ? In my house we plan on an average amount of money , not including overtime and base our expenses off of this formula.

Steve, they are in the game to stay in power. As long as they are more likely to stay in power by doing this they will even if it destroys the province.

The problem is that the union workers are afraid that if the gov't stops spending this way they'll be out of a job. And that's causing them to turn out in record numbers and vote - which is what kept the libs in power. The people who are financially dependant on the current overspending will continue to support the gov't EVEN IF they actually understand that in the long run it'll hurt everyone.

And the libs won't turn away from it as long as it keeps them in power. Even if THEY know it'll hurt everyone.

When the people of ontario are willing to turn out in sufficient numbers to overcome the union idiots and pay the price to get things back under control and punish the libs ... then it stops. Sadly - by the time that happens the pain needed to put things right may be quite severe.

Foxer
12-10-2014, 07:01 PM
The worst part is that it was all made very public that a certain party was already screwing up the provinces finances during the last election, yet us stupid voters gave them a majority to accelerate the downward momentum.

We get the government we want and deserve.

True. Ontario should have turned out en masse to correct the problem but they didn't. And hudak managed to scare the gov't workers so badly that they did.

Now they have a problem.

OEM
12-12-2014, 12:13 AM
The libs have wasted far more than enough to maintain the roads. Every city and municipal government in the province, just about, is as wasteful as the provincial gov.

Here in waterloo, the cost to service the debt is $62 million a year. And that does not include the new ion lrt project.

They have all, quite iterally, lost their effin minds.

I thought that Pereira guy in Hamilton was doing pretty good.


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OEM
12-12-2014, 12:14 AM
True. Ontario should have turned out en masse to correct the problem but they didn't. And PUBLIC SECTOR UNIONS INCLUDING THE POLICE managed to scare the gov't workers so badly that they did.

Now they have a problem.

Fixed it for you.


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Foxer
12-12-2014, 12:39 AM
Fixed it for you.


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You fixed it for me, they fixed it for Wynne, but I don't know if anyone can fix it for ontario.

OEM
12-12-2014, 12:43 AM
You fixed it for me, they fixed it for Wynne, but I don't know if anyone can fix it for ontario.

Hahaha! Well said! As the saying goes, as they sow, so shall they reap.


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Waterloomike
12-12-2014, 03:43 AM
I thought that Pereira guy in Hamilton was doing pretty good.


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Unknown.

But if it is, I don't think it's in the majority.

OEM
12-12-2014, 08:49 AM
Unknown.

But if it is, I don't think it's in the majority.

Look him up. I remember reading a report of how he turned the city of Hamilton's debts around. I think they're just about the only municipality in Canada that's NOT in the red, or at least trending that way. The point is, it can be done. But it takes political will and tough decisions. It was interesting how he did it and how he handled the public sector unions. Obviously there are critics, but IMO, all one has to do is look at almost every other municipality to see how badly they're run. At least his style is working.

conger
12-12-2014, 12:52 PM
After watching this disaster unfold in Ontario, all I can say is glad I don't live there and I feel bad for the people that do. I have a lot of relatives that live in the Kingston and Ottawa areas. It's like watching an economic train wreck.

Edenchef
12-12-2014, 03:16 PM
You fixed it for me, they fixed it for Wynne, but I don't know if anyone can fix it for ontario.

How about a WMD dropped on TO to start.

Cheers!

Waterloomike
12-12-2014, 04:27 PM
How about a WMD dropped on TO to start.

Cheers!

Toronto is a WMD.

Foxer
12-12-2014, 06:59 PM
Toronto is a WMD.

weapon of mass dumbassery?

Edenchef
12-12-2014, 07:50 PM
^^^^^^:owned:

Cheers!

Waterloomike
12-20-2014, 03:56 AM
Ontario's debt rating was just downgraded by fitch from AA to AA-.

RangeBob
12-20-2014, 04:44 AM
Ontario's debt rating was just downgraded by fitch from AA to AA-.

Right after the election, June 13 2014, "Fitch Ratings has a negative outlook on its AA rating".
-- http://business.financialpost.com/2014/06/13/ontario-election-2014-debt-downgrade/

Waterloomike
12-20-2014, 05:11 AM
Right after the election, June 13 2014, "Fitch Ratings has a negative outlook on its AA rating".
-- http://business.financialpost.com/2014/06/13/ontario-election-2014-debt-downgrade/

They eternally go from really bad to even worse, but still find excuses to extort and spend more money.

This well is going dry.

They couldn't manage whats on the floor of a chicken coop.

Lee Enfield
12-20-2014, 09:30 AM
Everyone that lives there and accepts this is to blame The "eyes wide shut" syndrome is hitting hard .

It's funy cause after the last storm we had me and the wife were at her xmas party and there was a couple guys there from Ontario and they were bitching about how poor the roads were and that in Ontario they would never let the roads be that bad . So I just had to mention that this could be some of why they were here to work and also why when it comes to the bottom line we are better off on our debt overall . They disputed the fact and tried to come back with Ontario is the Center of the world and we revolve around it .

The guys from Ontario had it wrong, Ontario is not the Center of the world but it is the Center of the toilet bowl and someone just pulled the lever.

Edenchef
12-20-2014, 12:20 PM
The guys from Ontario had it wrong, Ontario is not the Center of the world but it is the Center of the toilet bowl and someone just pulled the lever.

The center of the (s) wo(i) rld as we know it.

Cheers

Edward Teach
12-20-2014, 06:18 PM
How about a WMD dropped on TO to start.

Cheers!

I say we take off eh? and nuke the entire site from orbit.

Waterloomike
12-20-2014, 06:29 PM
I say we take off eh? and nuke the entire site from orbit.

That's why we can't have nice things.

BruceW
12-22-2014, 09:03 AM
Wasn't Wynn's actual platform during the election to continue throwing money away at an escalating pace and get federal transfer payments to bail them out?

With the left wing pc's apparently firmly ahold of Alberta's chequebook we'll soon be in much worse shape than Ont.

Come on maritimes, you're the last hope to keep the rest of us in the lifestyle's our politicians have become acustomed to, haha.

conger
12-22-2014, 11:56 AM
Wasn't Wynn's actual platform during the election to continue throwing money away at an escalating pace and get federal transfer payments to bail them out?

With the left wing pc's apparently firmly ahold of Alberta's chequebook we'll soon be in much worse shape than Ont.

Come on maritimes, you're the last hope to keep the rest of us in the lifestyle's our politicians have become acustomed to, haha.
The problem with the eastern provinces is they don't want on develop their natural gas resources by fracking.
The liberals say they want more study. It might harm the ground water.
Couple of problems with that thinking. Ground water table rarely goes 300' below ground. Hydraulic fracturing takes place at a mile underground and deeper. One has nothing to do with the other.
Alberta, BC and many parts of the US have been fracking for nearly 70 years. Saskatchewan has now joined in. Our water is clean and our air is clear.
How much longer does it need to be studied.
NFLD started developing their oil a few years ago. Now they are a "HAVE" province. The people like jobs and money.
So...... New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Quebec and Ontario. What the hell are you waiting for? Time to stop being parasites on the rest of the country.