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short1
01-26-2015, 06:27 PM
I was recently thinking about Greece's situation and how they have recently elected a new government that scares a few people.

From what I read, it sounds like Greece has been run by an NDP style government for many years that overspent. And then they got a "conservative" style government in that made them feel the pain. Now they want (and got) the NDP back.

It's funny when people say that can never happen here. The national NDP support hovers around 30% in Canada according to the "polls". The CPC around 35%. It's only our "first past the post" electoral system and how it discounts local concentrations that keeps the NDP in 2nd or 3rd place.

Here in BC we had a provincial election a couple years ago. The "popular vote" (how many people actually voted for each party) was around NDP 29% and Libs 34%. But the Libs were declared "landslide winners" Due to the electoral system. But really only 5% separated them from the "losers". If only 1 or 2 people out of 10 who voted that day, Who may have been waffling anyways, had changed their vote, The NDP would have been the victor.

Some parties are considered fringe because they cant get a good number of seats in the government, But that doesn't mean a significant number of people around you aren't voting for them.

Petamocto
01-26-2015, 06:51 PM
We won't be a true democracy until we start doing referendum-style voting on individual issues.

Until then, omnibus-style parties are extremely fallible, because people have to sacrifice some priorities.

Carguy2550
01-26-2015, 07:42 PM
:agree:

Until things like party discipline go the way of the dodo bird we are screwed. The main problem I see is that Canadians don't understand that politicians are supposed to mind the store and wait until they are told by us what they should do. That is how government by representation works.

short1
01-26-2015, 08:12 PM
As mentioned, we had an election in 2013 and the BC Liberals won. Shortly after, they introduced the HST which caused a big stir in the public. People hated it, Businesses loved it. BC is one of the few (only?) provinces to have a "citizens initiated referendum" whereas if a person or group gets enough petition signatures on an issue the government is required to consider having a voters referendum on the issue. They did, HST lost, They canned it. But there was a lot of uproar about the process from those who so treasure the governments unfettered ability to Tax at Will. Don't wan't to become like California, they say, where every tax hike has to go to vote "progress is held back".

In the greater Vancouver area, Voters are being asked again to vote for a sales tax increase to fund public transit (purportedly). Too bad we don't get to vote on our Property tax rates !. After too many parties saying "vote for me ! I will reduce X tax" and then getting in to power and declaring their true intentions, What is the public to do.

Edward Teach
01-26-2015, 11:25 PM
You don't want a true democracy. Who wants to live under the specter of having the terms of how they live their lives dictated by a cadre of turdeau psychophants or AGW true believers?
A republic is a better system, with rule of law and a Constitution that (hopefully) keeps the unwashed from running amok.

L33CHW33D
01-27-2015, 02:55 PM
A strong confederacy is even better, where regions can choose their own terms and the federal government exists only to provide internatioanl diplomacy and defense and to support a common currency, that way if a region such as the GTA wants to limit their civil rights they can, but then those living in PEI or Alberta or wherever else aren't forced into it.

I do love the idea of voting on every issue, it'd have to be an electronic voting system otherwise I can't see it entirely feasible, and you'd probably have low vote counts, so education would be key. And the beauty of it is that if you don't like where you live and how its governed (high social programs vs high civil right, etc.) you can move to a place that suits your ideas better. Which is sort of a little bit like what you can do now but you're stuck with all the same BS Toronto and her "new-generation" dictates to the rest of the country regardless if you like it or not.

Foxer
01-27-2015, 07:02 PM
I was recently thinking about Greece's situation and how they have recently elected a new government that scares a few people.

From what I read, it sounds like Greece has been run by an NDP style government for many years that overspent. And then they got a "conservative" style government in that made them feel the pain. Now they want (and got) the NDP back.

It's funny when people say that can never happen here. The national NDP support hovers around 30% in Canada according to the "polls". The CPC around 35%. It's only our "first past the post" electoral system and how it discounts local concentrations that keeps the NDP in 2nd or 3rd place.

Here in BC we had a provincial election a couple years ago. The "popular vote" (how many people actually voted for each party) was around NDP 29% and Libs 34%. But the Libs were declared "landslide winners" Due to the electoral system. But really only 5% separated them from the "losers". If only 1 or 2 people out of 10 who voted that day, Who may have been waffling anyways, had changed their vote, The NDP would have been the victor.

Some parties are considered fringe because they cant get a good number of seats in the government, But that doesn't mean a significant number of people around you aren't voting for them.

well... the ndp are actually at an all time pre-election high of about 21 percent right now and usually are closer to 18. In the last election they did the best they've ever done by a huge margin, and still didn't come close to forming gov't.

Which isn't to say it COULDN'T happen. But on the whole, it's not really an immediate threat. Mind you - don't say that to angry tom. :)

Foxer
01-27-2015, 07:06 PM
We won't be a true democracy until we start doing referendum-style voting on individual issues.


Well, aside from the fact that the LAST thing we want to be is a true democracy - I question whether or not hoping that the same people who couldn't decide on good politicians who would do the right thing will somehow be able to make good decisions on what the right thing is themselves isn't perhaps a tad optimistic. The people who brought you trudeau and chretien aren't likely to bring you any better choices if asked about issues directly i suspect.