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View Full Version : New Long Range Rifle: Mossberg MVP Varmint VS. Remington 700



Huge_midget
02-08-2015, 10:43 AM
I am looking for a new long range bolt action rifle, something around the range of $800 - $1200 all in, scope and bipod.

The calibre i was thinking was an .308 win.
I am looking for mostly a range rifle, but it wouldn't be an issue if i decided to go hunting.

The problem comes when i am looking into the rifle itself. I am finding it a little hard to choose between the Mossberg MVP and Remington 700. As far as reliability goes form what i read, the Remington wins hands down but again it may be due to the fact there is way more of them out there. The Mossberg seems to be having some mixed reviews out there.

What are your thoughts on this guys?

zulu
02-08-2015, 11:08 AM
I would go remington. Might be hard though to fit "all in" with that budget. Do you already have an optic in mind?

Petamocto
02-08-2015, 11:14 AM
Remington hasn't exactly been getting a lot of stellar press lately, either.

Why limit your choice to only those two brands? Why not Tikka T3? Why not Weatherby? Browning?

Here's a Weatherby Vanguard combo for under $1k before tax:

http://www.cabelas.ca/product/47124/weatherby-vanguard-s2-synthetic-combo-bolt-action-rifle

Don't buy anything before you go to a store and hold all these things in your hand.

Rory McCanuck
02-08-2015, 12:30 PM
I'd have a good look at Savage.

stevesummit
02-08-2015, 12:32 PM
Well I would look past both and start picking up peices for a custom and plan out a budget for build

Petamocto
02-08-2015, 12:33 PM
I'd have a good look at Savage.

Out of curiosity, why would you mention that brand among the others that he is mentioning? Yes they have the Model 12 which is on par, but 90% of Savages sold are budget entry-level ones by people who want to buy the cheapest thing possible. I don't think this guy wants that.

lone-wolf
02-08-2015, 01:16 PM
The only budget savage to me is the axis, which still shoots and includes a trigger that hasn't been recalled enmasse.
I still have a hard time considering mossberg anything but a low grade company that sells on gimmicks.

Foxer
02-08-2015, 01:26 PM
The older 700's were just amazing - my dad still has his trusty ole '89 special edition (300 weatherby) and that puppy is just a joy to shoot, and remarkably accurate. I haven't heard as many good things said about the current ones.

Perhaps you should look at tika as well? I haven't owned one but i've shot a few and my buddy's was exceptional for the money.

Petamocto
02-08-2015, 01:41 PM
...I still have a hard time considering Mossberg anything but a low grade company that sells on gimmicks.

What do you mean by that, the stanag/AR mag thing? That's an awesome feature, not a gimmick.

zulu
02-08-2015, 02:27 PM
Nothing wrong with savages. In all honesty OP I'd buy the optic first and make sure it gets the large section of the budget then look at what rifle.

lone-wolf
02-08-2015, 02:43 PM
What do you mean by that, the stanag/AR mag thing? That's an awesome feature, not a gimmick.

The way they had to mod the bolt to work is not confidence inspiring, considering other companies did it with the normal rem700 bolt.
But I'm thinking more of their ridiculously huge muzzle brakes on .22s, shotguns with a chainsaw handles, lever actions with AR stocks, and that crappy ar style .22

stevesummit
02-08-2015, 02:44 PM
Out of curiosity, why would you mention that brand among the others that he is mentioning? Yes they have the Model 12 which is on par, but 90% of Savages sold are budget entry-level ones by people who want to buy the cheapest thing possible. I don't think this guy wants that.

And you think a mossberg is a high quality rifle ?

Rory McCanuck
02-08-2015, 02:54 PM
What do you mean by that, the stanag/AR mag thing? That's an awesome feature, not a gimmick.
Seriously? Have you paid attention to anything Mossberg has made in the last several years?
Most of what they have produced has been slightly (and I'm being generous there) ridiculous.
http://www.mossberg.com/assets/scripts/timthumb.php?w=625&zc=0&src=http://www.mossberg.com/sites/default/files/1329327678/%2341026_464SPX_30-30_SUPPRESSOR.png

http://www.mossberg.com/assets/scripts/timthumb.php?w=625&zc=0&src=http://www.mossberg.com/sites/default/files/1421367767/BLAZE_10Rd_GreenDot.png

http://texasgunblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Tactical-Shotgun-Magazine.jpg

http://r3.officer.com/files/base/image/OFCR/2009/03/16x9/640x360/muzzlebrakeplinksterrifles_10051095.jpg

I don't know of anyone over the age of 25 that has any use for a Mossberg other than as a tomato stake.


Remington...well they used to make really good rifles. I haven't any experience with the newer ones.
I'm still mad at them for what they did to Marlin.

Precision/Long Range shooting tends to be an incremental business. You bolt stuff on and change stuff out to see what suits your needs. By the time you've finally got everything to wear you want it, your barrel is shot out. With a Savage, you then buy a vice and wrench and change the barrel.
Plus, there's the fact that they just plain shoot.

kennymo
02-08-2015, 02:56 PM
Gonna have to put Savage above the Mossberg too. They're a helluva accurate budget gun, toss the Axis (which for all my hate is accurate) and you've got a fairly solid lineup. I imagine you're looking for a heavy barrel with the long range talk? A Remington or Savage varmint model would probably be a good start.

Petamocto
02-08-2015, 03:08 PM
Rory, we're talking about the MVP Varmint here, not other models Mossberg has made.

That's why I'm asking about the gimmicks. The MVP Varmint is very well made and positively reviewed. Do they make other stuff that's crap? Absolutely, but the MVP isn't, and the stanag/AR mags are a huge benefit. I'm going from an MVP to a CZ527, and although I know much of the rifle's quality will be better, I will miss the Beowolf mag a great deal.

kennymo
02-08-2015, 03:13 PM
Rory, we're talking about the MVP Varmint here, not other models Mossberg has made.

That's why I'm asking about the gimmicks. The MVP Varmint is very well made and positively reviewed. Do they make other stuff that's crap? Absolutely, but the MVP isn't, and the stanag/AR mags are a huge benefit. I'm going from an MVP to a CZ527, and although I know much of the rifle's quality will be better, I will miss the Beowolf mag a great deal.

Yet you're all too willing to throw the other brands under the bus because they make a handful of low budget options.....;)

lone-wolf
02-08-2015, 03:18 PM
The OP is talking .308 and the mvp, and I'm not sure what style magazines that takes, or whether there is a option for more than 5rds.

Petamocto
02-08-2015, 03:21 PM
Yet you're all too willing to throw the other brands under the bus because they make a handful of low budget options.....;)

I'm not pushing the Mossberg, either. I'm saying he should look at brands like Tikka, Weatherby, and Browning.

I'll definitely throw Savage under the bus though, mister! :p Yes they have some non-cheap models, but as Wesley Snipes once said "You can put syrup on sh!t, it still ain't pancakes".

lone-wolf
02-08-2015, 03:27 PM
This really also depends what and how you're going to hunt.
A 24"+ heavy barrel monstrosity might not be the ideal hunting rifle.
Compromise with a lighter weight barrel
Or a shorter heavy barrel

kennymo
02-08-2015, 03:49 PM
Remington's SPS Police model might be something to look at. Around $800, but it's got a really nice Hogue stock, available in .308 (perfect for target and game up to moose sized) and the barrel is a short heavy profile. Should be rigid enough for good target shooting, but maneuverable enough in a tree stand or hiking through the woods. Might run a little tight on your glass budget though....

FlyingHigh
02-08-2015, 05:24 PM
S

I don't know of anyone over the age of 25 that has any use for a Mossberg other than as a tomato stake.


I'll be 26 in a week, does that count?

While I agree that Mossberg has made some stupid crap I will say this:

I will happily put my Maverick 88 and/or 590A1 up against any other make and model of pump action shotgun on the market, any day, anywhere and in any conditions.


But those are shotguns. The OP is asking about rifles. My opinion is this: Your entire budget is pretty much what you should be spending on entry level glass for your rifle, assuming long range is 600m+. If 300m is long range to you, never mind then. :)

When I was looking at a precision rifle, I bought a Stevens 200 and the plan was to keep the action and then rechamber it, put in a different trigger, barrel and stock. That would be a 1000 yard gun for around $1000 not including glass.

I haven't got around to the build and likely won't for quite some time, but it's an option you could consider...if you can find a Stevens 200 anywhere...

Huge_midget
02-08-2015, 06:38 PM
I would go remington. Might be hard though to fit "all in" with that budget. Do you already have an optic in mind?

was thinking a leopold, $200

Huge_midget
02-08-2015, 06:39 PM
I would go remington. Might be hard though to fit "all in" with that budget. Do you already have an optic in mind?

I was thinking a leopold, i forget the model but its approximately $200ish

Huge_midget
02-08-2015, 06:45 PM
The OP is talking .308 and the mvp, and I'm not sure what style magazines that takes, or whether there is a option for more than 5rds.

Thats correct sir, i could care less if it holds more than 3 with the ridiculous magazine max laws we have here...

Huge_midget
02-08-2015, 06:46 PM
Seriously? Have you paid attention to anything Mossberg has made in the last several years?
Most of what they have produced has been slightly (and I'm being generous there) ridiculous.
http://www.mossberg.com/assets/scripts/timthumb.php?w=625&zc=0&src=http://www.mossberg.com/sites/default/files/1329327678/%2341026_464SPX_30-30_SUPPRESSOR.png

http://www.mossberg.com/assets/scripts/timthumb.php?w=625&zc=0&src=http://www.mossberg.com/sites/default/files/1421367767/BLAZE_10Rd_GreenDot.png

http://texasgunblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Tactical-Shotgun-Magazine.jpg

http://r3.officer.com/files/base/image/OFCR/2009/03/16x9/640x360/muzzlebrakeplinksterrifles_10051095.jpg

I don't know of anyone over the age of 25 that has any use for a Mossberg other than as a tomato stake.


Remington...well they used to make really good rifles. I haven't any experience with the newer ones.
I'm still mad at them for what they did to Marlin.

Precision/Long Range shooting tends to be an incremental business. You bolt stuff on and change stuff out to see what suits your needs. By the time you've finally got everything to wear you want it, your barrel is shot out. With a Savage, you then buy a vice and wrench and change the barrel.
Plus, there's the fact that they just plain shoot.

THE CHAINSAW PUMP looks absolutely redonculious lol

lone-wolf
02-08-2015, 06:46 PM
I'm guessing if you get a $200 anything scope, you're going to be looking to upgrade soon after shooting it.

Huge_midget
02-08-2015, 06:46 PM
Well I would look past both and start picking up peices for a custom and plan out a budget for build

would a $1200 budget allow for a custom build?

kennymo
02-08-2015, 07:01 PM
THE CHAINSAW PUMP looks absolutely redonculious lol

Only until you hold one in your hands......then it feels ridiculous too...

zulu
02-08-2015, 07:01 PM
Was it a leupold riflemen?
What is the range are are planning on target shooting up to?

Huge_midget
02-08-2015, 07:07 PM
Was it a leupold riflemen?
What is the range are are planning on target shooting up to?

it's about 300 but planning on getting out to gods country and hopefully finding something twice the length

6MT
02-08-2015, 07:13 PM
Should be a custom build. IMHO.

Petamocto
02-08-2015, 07:21 PM
The guy has said he wants to stay around $1000 including a scope, and multiple people are recommending custom builds.

"Hey guys, do you think I should pick a Honda Accord or Ford Fusion because I'd like to keep it to about $30,000?" "For what you're looking for I think an Audi S7 or Porsche 911 is a better car".

kennymo
02-08-2015, 07:35 PM
The guy has said he wants to stay around $1000 including a scope, and multiple people are recommending custom builds.

"Hey guys, do you think I should pick a Honda Accord or Ford Fusion because I'd like to keep it to about $30,000?" "For what you're looking for I think an Audi S7 or Porsche 911 is a better car".

Haha, this... Shop around for a factory varmint or tactical gun in .308. Something with a heavy barrel, MVP, Savage and Remington SPS at the lower end. The SPS police model or various tactical models from Savage or Remington may also fit your bill. Go to a gun shop and hold them before you make a decision if possible. Then spend every last penny you can on glass. $200 probably won't cut it if you want to really stretch that rifle out, though 300 and 400 yards certainly isn't out of the question at that point. Best of luck!

zulu
02-08-2015, 07:45 PM
it's about 300 but planning on getting out to gods country and hopefully finding something twice the length

600 meters eh, a scope with a bullet drop reticle or target turrets is going to be your friend. Id recommend going with turrets. The cheapest that still get the job done that I know of is from frontier firearms. http://frontierfirearms.ca/optics/falcon-4-14x44-b-metric.html That will leave you with 700$ left over and you could get a remmy sps for that. Like another said a Stevens has potential for building on.

Huge_midget
02-08-2015, 07:47 PM
too bad we don't have a place around Toronto to actually take some shots see how the guns feel before spending the cash

6MT
02-08-2015, 09:32 PM
Doesn't Norinco make cheap rifles that do everything for less than 1k? Yeah....that's it...Norinco!

Petamocto
02-08-2015, 09:38 PM
I don't think he's asking for the perfect rifle, and I'm pretty sure he knows he can't get top of the line on his budget.

He's asking for advice on the best way he can spend the money he's got.

Satain
02-08-2015, 10:19 PM
Steer clear of Mossberg. They just don't have the qc there yet. Either there alright or they suck. I would give them another year or 2.

FlyingHigh
02-09-2015, 09:16 AM
The guy has said he wants to stay around $1000 including a scope, and multiple people are recommending custom builds.

"Hey guys, do you think I should pick a Honda Accord or Ford Fusion because I'd like to keep it to about $30,000?" "For what you're looking for I think an Audi S7 or Porsche 911 is a better car".

Find a Stevens 200 - $250

Then go to MysticPrecision.com:

McGowan Barrel - $375
Timney Trigger - $150
Choate stock - $325

$1100 for a custom rifle that will hit out to 1000 yards.

add on the $200 scope he says he was looking at (which honestly, he'll be upgrading in short order) and you're still under $1500 taxes etc all in.

But honestly...300m isn't long range and I'm far from being an expert marksman, casual plinkster is more like it. But my hunting rifle is zeroed at 200m. 600m is just starting stretch the legs of long range. I've hit a moose size target at 750m with my 7mm Rem Mag and a 3-9x40mm scope.

For those ranges, the OP could seriously buy a cheap Savage Axis, drop a $300 Bushnell scope on it and call it a day.

But between the MVP and the Remington 700...I'd go Rem 700 all day long.

kennymo
02-09-2015, 09:44 AM
^^ believe it or not Cabelas just sold the used Stevens 200 I traded in for $400....just saying. Gave me more than I paid for it brand new for trade in value too, I can't believe THAT turned out to be the only firearm I ever bought that appreciated in value... We're still starting out way over the high end of the budget there, and there's still the cost of putting everything together, whether paying someone to do it or buying a few tools to get the job done.
He wants to maybe stretch it out as far as 600 yards, a factory varmint rifle will be capable of that. Better off saving a couple bucks and investing more into glass IMO.

FlyingHigh
02-09-2015, 10:12 AM
$400 for a Stevens 200!? Wow...I know they stopped making them but wow...I paid $225 new for the one I have in the cabinet.

But yes, like I said for the ranges he wants to shoot, any cheap rifle will do it. I agree with investing the lion's share of the money into the glass.

kennymo
02-09-2015, 10:23 AM
Yeah, I couldn't believe it. Paid just over $200 on sale brand new five or six years ago. Sold for $275 and put it and a small cash amount on a 35 Whelen :). It was an unfair trade methinks.

http://i1328.photobucket.com/albums/w534/kennymo81/Mobile%20Uploads/5501BB27-945A-4A5B-99A5-33D061574F3F_zpshwr3idko.jpg (http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/kennymo81/media/Mobile%20Uploads/5501BB27-945A-4A5B-99A5-33D061574F3F_zpshwr3idko.jpg.html)

3MTA3
02-09-2015, 03:14 PM
Stevens is the budget Savage... and the 200 is well, Excellent, fix the trigger, add a Boyds or stiffen the standard stock and it is hard to beat. Savage rifles really shine in the accuracy dept, the axis rifle with the accutrigger that I have shoots under a inch. The Weaver scope on it is quite good enough for hunting, gets you out and setup while you save up for a good scope and a stock. Mag sucks though. Best part is after the rebate only cost $400 with tax. That deal is over now though, and the dollar is not going to help.

zulu
02-10-2015, 11:19 PM
M.poe has what your looking for in the market right now and for $700

short1
02-11-2015, 12:36 AM
---

CDNBear
02-20-2015, 10:29 AM
You should see what Mistic Precision has to say about the axis. ... looked like it passed the test .

CDNBear
02-20-2015, 10:32 AM
You know what Savage said to Remington. ...I don't recall.

Petamocto
02-20-2015, 10:36 AM
Stevens is the budget Savage...

Which is saying a lot, since Savage isn't exactly Cooper to start with.

Savage having a cheaper model is like no-name Kraft Dinner.

kennymo
02-20-2015, 11:26 AM
Anyone had their hands on a Rem 783 ? I Read some good and bad.

Supposedly accurate enough. I handled one out of curiousity, and it seems better put together than the 770's (though they shot well too). All in all, it's still a fairly rough around the edges budget rifle but probably much improved over it's predecessor.


Which is saying a lot, since Savage isn't exactly Cooper to start with.

Savage having a cheaper model is like no-name Kraft Dinner.

I can't wait until you see a Savage outshoot that fancy CZ... My Stevens 200 would've given it a run for it's money with $80 glass and the Rifle Basix trigger upgrade. ;). 3/4" or less at 100 yards with the cheap Winchester white box and a pencil barrel...

Petamocto
02-20-2015, 11:48 AM
...I can't wait until you see a Savage outshoot that fancy CZ... My Stevens 200 would've given it a run for it's money with $80 glass and the Rifle Basix trigger upgrade. ;). 3/4" or less at 100 yards with the cheap Winchester white box and a pencil barrel...

Come on, let a man have some fun. If people can have Glock bashing threads, I can make fun of Savage (and especially Stevens), too.

As for your Stevens taking the Pepsi challenge against my new CZ, that sounds like a bet, mister!

kennymo
02-20-2015, 11:52 AM
Come on, let a man have some fun. If people can have Glock bashing threads, I can make fun of Savage (and especially Stevens), too.

As for your Stevens taking the Pepsi challenge against my new CZ, that sounds like a bet, mister!

Well I traded that one, so we're going to have to switch to 35 Whelen vs. 223. Biggest hole contest :).

DOA
02-20-2015, 12:05 PM
I was In a similar position a little over a year ago. I was advised yo pick up a donor action for a custom build and planed on it. Then I found a Savage 111 Long Range Hunter for $6xx in the calibre I wanted so I bought it planning to changing the barrel but it shoots sub MOA at 300m and I've made hits much farther. I'm still going the custom route but now I can hone my skills until this barrel burns through and save some cash.

My point to this is that if you want to stay on a budget, budget shop! That and Savage is awesome. I'm going to buy an MVP on day though, I have too many mags for it!

Hornychief
02-21-2015, 10:37 PM
If you are only going out to 300 with it then you really can't not go wrong with little savage axis. Reasons because they are cheap, sub moa accuracy. Yeah the stock is crap but put it into Boyds stock for a less than a few hundred and you are left with enough for decent glass. Plus when you feel confident and saved up some more cash you can build it up into proper long range rig. Just look on some us sites with axis build. You will be surprised

Petamocto
02-22-2015, 07:03 AM
Well I traded that one, so we're going to have to switch to 35 Whelen vs. 223. Biggest hole contest :).

Not exactly fair, since my CZ is so awesome that even 10 round groups are going to leave a hole on paper measuring .223"

Huge_midget
03-07-2015, 04:19 PM
:D:D:D

Huge_midget
03-07-2015, 04:20 PM
I think the decision has been made gentleman
http://aimtowardsenemy.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Remington-700-SPS-Tactical-Right1.jpg
(this isn't mine but thats where I would like to take it)
Remington 700 SPS Tactical. It seemed to cover my requirements pretty well and the deals around on it still leave me enough for some good glass.

You guys are awesome. Thanks for the help