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short1
02-12-2015, 04:40 PM
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awndray
02-12-2015, 05:09 PM
Short answer: the moment you open the package.

More on the subject:


16. An individual may ship a firearm by posting it only if
(a) the firearm is a non-restricted firearm, restricted firearm or prohibited handgun;
(b) the destination is within Canada; and
(c) the firearm is posted using the most secure means of transmission by post that is offered by the Canada Post Corporation that includes the requirement to obtain a signature on delivery.
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-98-209/FullText.html


International destinations: Under no circumstances can Firearms be mailed as defined by the Firearms Act: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-98-209/FullText.html (http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/sor-98-209/FullText.html)(Section 16 - non-contract) or http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-98-210/FullText.html (Section 15 - contract).

Canada: Please contact the Canadian Firearms Centre at cfc-cafc.gc.ca (http://www.cfc-cafc.gc.ca/) or by calling 1-800-731-4000 to determine whether it is permissible to ship your firearms.

When it is determined permissible to ship firearms, they must be shipped as follows:




Customer Type


Service To Be Used



Non-contract customer
Regular Parcel with Signature option.


Contract customer
Expedited Parcel with the Proof of Age (18 or 19) option using EST. VisitSection 4.3.2 Mail addressed to children of Policies (https://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/manual/PGpolicies-e.asp#1427879) for an age of majority by province or territory listing.



There cannot be any ammunition in the firearm or in the package. Bullets, cartridges and other ammunition are dangerous goods and cannot be mailed. These items fall under Class 1 (Explosives) of the CanadianTransportation of Dangerous Goods Act and Regulations (http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/tdg/safety-menu.htm).

Customers who wish to ship firearms must:


unload the firearms
attach a secure locking device to the firearms
lock the firearms in a sturdy, non-transparent container, and
remove the bolt or bolt carrier from any automatic firearms (if removable).

Firearms cannot be shipped via air and cannot have any markings on the outside of the packaging. The customer is solely responsible for meeting all Canadian Firearms Centre regulations.



NOTE:
For more packaging tips, refer to Section 3.2.1 Suggestions for how to package and wrap items of ABCs of Mailing (https://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/manual/PGabcmail-e.asp#1510084).




https://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/manual/PGnonmail-e.asp#1389620

Edenchef
02-12-2015, 05:27 PM
I'm just in the middle of that right now. Answer from Alberta CFO " once the package is in your hands, since you know what is inside, it is now outside of the Canada Post Exemption". This means if it arrives at your door in the hands of a CP Employee not a problem; if you miss the delivery and have to pick it up at the post office, you need to have an ATT to legally transport it from the post office to home.

Cheers!

short1
02-12-2015, 05:48 PM
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Petamocto
02-12-2015, 06:46 PM
I appreciate your dedication to not wanting to break any laws whatsoever, but at the same time a rational person has to weigh the risk of how likely something is really going to happen.

Is going 101 km/h against the law in a 100? Yes, absolutely. Nobody would question that you are literally breaking the law. However, what is the probability for you getting pulled over, and given a ticket? 0.00000001? What about 105 km/h? Still against the law, but the risk of getting noticed gets slightly higher. What about 110 km/h, 120 km/h, or 140 km/h? Breaking the law is breaking the law, but if you pass a cop at 140 km/h in a 100 km/h zone, you have now basically crossed the threshold of having a 99% probability of the flashing lights coming on, and you getting pulled over.

What you are talking about, with a closed package being delivered to your home, and having someone else sign for it, is the equivalent of going 101 km/h. If that package remains closed, it is extremely improbable that any over-zealous police officer would ever stumble upon such a circumstance, let alone force the package to be opened and place your wife in a position of unlawful storage.

In order for you to get to the equivalent of going 140 km/h, your wife would have to open the package, find any ways to get the case open and trigger lock off, then start waving the gun around at neighbours. That would be the way to get to a 99% probability of you getting in trouble.

I'm not encouraging anyone to break the law here, nor am I offering legal advice. But if a discreet box arrives at 3pm and your wife signs for it, and leaves it on your counter for you to open when you get home at 5pm, I can not think of a single case in Canadian precedent law when someone has been "busted" for that.

Edenchef
02-12-2015, 06:58 PM
From a purely technical legal standpoint, the only person that can legally open the package is the person that it is addressed to. For the police to open it, they would legally require a warrant; if they opened it without a proper legal warrant, a good lawyer would have any charges from this tossed right out of court. Your wife or anyone else in the house can very easily claim that they have absolutely no idea about the contents as long as it is not opened. Watch the police try and prove that they knew what the contents were in front of a judge. JMHO

Cheers!

short1
02-12-2015, 09:49 PM
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Petamocto
02-12-2015, 10:07 PM
As I wrote, I would never recommend that anyone break any laws, but I don't think the kinds of questions you're asking have ever resulted in a charge or conviction in Canada, regardless of how wonky our laws may be.

awndray
02-13-2015, 06:17 AM
My Wife is home one day a week, And may be out when the postie arrives. So I may get the tag on the door and then be forced to retrieve the package at the post office/7-11 . I'd better get a ATT for that so I can receive it from the non-RPAL min wage employee who has been responsible for it all day LOL.
For all you and Canada Post know, you're picking up a snow globe. You go to the post office. You sign the cute little electronic notepad. You go home. You enjoy your latest purchase.

I'm not suggesting you break any laws. I'm just saying, you're picking up a nondescript package at the post office.

P.S. I don't want to get involved in your personal life, you better make sure your spouse knows about your hobby. It could turn ugly.

TheCenturion
02-13-2015, 06:23 AM
I am not a lawyer, but my lay opinion would be:
If you come home to a CP pickup slip, are you going to call the CFO for a STATT for a 'mysterious package?' "Yeah, it might be that Browning I ordered, or it might be that t-shirt I ordered that says 'Firearms owners do it by cocking the hammer, dyslexic firearms owners do it by hammering the cock' but I want to make sure I'm being legal, just in case."

Given that the laws specifically say the package cannot have exterior markings, and some companies even ship under different names so nobody sees the return address as 'So and So Firearms and Outdoor Gear,' you get a pickup slip, you pick up your package, you take it home, you open it, hey, it's your pistol. Now you need an ATT to take it anywhere else.

livewire0129
02-13-2015, 06:30 AM
I've purchased many restricted and non-restricted firearms from online dealers using canada post, both new and surplus, and none have ever had a trigger lock. Either that rule doesn't apply to dealers, or it's not enforced.

awndray
02-13-2015, 06:36 AM
That's a different topic. The trigger lock issue has been discussed at length. There's a thread in here somewhere.

livewire0129
02-13-2015, 07:23 AM
That's a different topic. The trigger lock issue has been discussed at length. There's a thread in here somewhere.


link?

Mark-II
02-13-2015, 07:41 AM
And yet, no one has ever seen blood in the streets when a dealer ships a handgun without trigger lock and an honest citizen fails to get a STATT to pick up some package at a post office that they in advance do not even know is their gun...

Edenchef
02-13-2015, 09:36 AM
And yet, no one has ever seen blood in the streets when a dealer ships a handgun without trigger lock and an honest citizen fails to get a STATT to pick up some package at a post office that they in advance do not even know is their gun...

But, think of the poor bureaucrats at the CFP, missing out on their opportunity to harass and control your life with their stupid little slips of paper, all at the taxpayers expense. I wonder, has anyone done an estimate of the cost to the taxpayers of these STATT's? One of their(CFP's) little regulatory harassment's of gun owners, with absolutely zero safety benefit to the public. The true cost of these harassment regulations might be a great little study to present to parliament, especially when they are looking at "austerity measures" or more justification of C-42?

Cheers!

awndray
02-13-2015, 09:46 AM
link?

http://gunownersofcanada.ca/search.php

Mark-II
02-13-2015, 09:48 AM
But, think of the poor bureaucrats at the CFP, missing out on their opportunity to harass and control your life with their stupid little slips of paper, all at the taxpayers expense.

Cheers!


You brought a crocodile tear to my eye :(