Do I need a range membership?

[Canuck 4393]

Hi all sorry if this is a dumb question but hey I'm a newb, So I'm wondering if I need to have a range membership to buy a pistol? I'm on three different waiting lists one that I guy I work with has been on for like two and a half years!! The other only has intake in November. So I'm wanting to have a pistol when I'm able to go use it not wait another x amount of time. Thanks


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[awndray]

Short legal answer: no, you don't. Complex CFO answer: yes, you do.

Enjoy these frustrating reads:

http://www.gunownersofcanada.ca/showthread.php?19087-Buying-First-Handgun-no-ATT-yet
http://www.gunownersofcanada.ca/showthread.php?14909-Alberta-Specific-Laws
http://www.gunownersofcanada.ca/showthread.php?20531-ATT-Question

[Canuck 4393]

Hey man thanks, good thing I have nothing else to do this afternoon I'll bet there is a lot of reading there


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[blacksmithden]

The best thing to do is call up the CFO's office and ask. They change their own internal policies (aka- make up the law as they go along) with no notice to anyone. Tell them that you're going to be getting one, but there's a wait list...whatever. Can I still buy one now while I'm waiting to get into xyz-club ?

[Canuck 4393]

That's probably the best way to go, no guessing


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[Drache]

What province are you in? That is the easiest way to tell

[Waynetheman]

In Bc you can just join silvercore while you wait. It's not a range but it IS a "club"

[Hornychief]

I live on the border of Alberta and Saskatchewan. Great little dirt ball called Lloyd. When I asked I was told I had to be part of my local piston club to make my life easier with restricted because as big brother sees is why do you purchase restricted firearm and be unable to legally shoot it at the range. The part that sucks in your position is the long wait

[3MTA3]

When you buy a restricted firearm in Ontario, the retailer will typically ask you what club you belong to. You can answer with the club you intend to join. The transfer may or may not be questioned. Silvercore method has been used in Ontario but I think that method is dead ended now You will get a variety of answers on this subject, but in Ontario, for most people, for the time being, you need to join a club to get a restricted firearm for practical purposes, and to join a club and attend a "ATT course" in order to use it at the club. There are a few exceptions, but for the most part this is the case. Some ranges might even demand that you have evidence of training beyond the basic RPAL and ATT course before you can participate in events(even non competitive)- but that is a separate issue.

In the future if the provincial CFO has their way I doubt you will be able to use a range on your own,- you will be required to shoot under a trained RSO at specified time- but that is just conjecture based on interactions with them.

[Steveo9mm]

Welcome to the convoluted world of gun ownership.

[BigRhino]

I myself have gone the silvercore route and its been fine for 4 years now. I am also on wait lists and have been for 2 years. Its kind of bull**** that a guy has to wait that long but thems the breaks I guess.

[Edenchef]

Welcome to the convoluted world of gun hating bureaucrats and their arbitrary regulations.

Corrected for you.

Cheers!

[bettercallsaul]

I think it depends on the store, and what province it is in. I bought a restricted gun from a gun store on the east coast with the intention of having them ship it to me after I get my range membership, they said no need, they can mail to to me legally. Not sure why, I just said "okay great". It might have been because I was in the process of getting the membership.

[bradzilla]

I was thinking of going that route too. (ordering online) . Figured it might be easier to have shipped to my door than run into any issues. Im applying for my memberships right now (trying two different ranges.. see how that pans out) . I just want my first restricted so I can get used to it. What I mean by that is the cleaning/care of it, teardown and rebuild (field strip I believe its called?..) Safe handling. Just familiarizing myself with it first.

If you were buying out of the message boards on here, and the seller agreed to come to your place for the sale, its the same as being mailed correct? no ATT needed, until you intend to take it to your range.

[awndray]

Just because it's coming from a dealer doesn't mean the CFO will accept the transfer. When you make the purchase, whether from a store or from an individual, the seller will initiate a transfer of the restricted firearm. You must then call the CFO to complete the transfer. Regardless of whether it's a retail sale or a private sale, the CFO will ask you for the purpose of the firearm and which club you're a member of. If you're in the process of becoming a member, say so. They probably will, but it doesn't necessarily mean they'll approve it. It sucks that it has to be this way, but that's how the Ontario CFO operates.

As for a seller delivering it to you, he or she will need to obtain an ATT. You will not.

[bradzilla]

Just because it's coming from a dealer doesn't mean the CFO will accept the transfer. When you make the purchase, whether from a store or from an individual, the seller will initiate a transfer of the restricted firearm. You must then call the CFO to complete the transfer. Regardless of whether it's a retail sale or a private sale, the CFO will ask you for the purpose of the firearm and which club you're a member of. If you're in the process of becoming a member, say so. They probably will, but it doesn't necessarily mean they'll approve it. It sucks that it has to be this way, but that's how the Ontario CFO operates.

As for a seller delivering it to you, he or she will need to obtain an ATT. You will not.

So what happens then if they deny it?

[awndray]

You're guess is as good as mine.

[bradzilla]

You're guess is as good as mine.

No where to return it..lol... cant sell it.... probably they'll make you jump through hoops for it..lol

[Edenchef]

No where to return it..lol... cant sell it.... probably they'll make you jump through hoops for it..lol

Welcome to our world of stupid, arbitrary, bureaucratic "laws", used to support their personal disarmament agenda. All enacted under the name of regulations, subject to change with the wind, phase of the moon, whatever floats their boat today.

Cheers!

[speedloader]

If your in alberta you will need a range membership associate or full and most ranges
will do an associate for 1/4 of the cost or the CFO simply will not do the transfer
and will just sit on it until you or the retailer inquires what the hold up is
but most retailers know that and will help as best they can to sell you your firearm

heres the other kicker if your membership is not renewed to said range or any other
and they still list you owning a restricted, as ranges have to report
when your membership is up or changed
they will not let you renew your rpal or ATT until you have proven member ship
hereby making you an instant criminal
as you must have a reason for buying or owning a restricted firearm
target shooting is the usual so ......
all have said this is not law but I have personally been subject to this
when purchasing, and a buddy who went to renew his license as well

welcome to the Game , you will never here anyone say it made any kind of sense

[westwayshooter]

In BC, you are required to have a club membership to purchase a restricted firearm and maintain that membership for as long as you own it. You would be surprised how many people get a membership in a club, let it lapse after a year and then, after their RPAL and LTATT are up for renewal, scramble to try to get a new membership. With the caps on membership and new membership requirements at most of the clubs around the lower mainland, they are hard pressed to get one. We do not anticipate any new memberships being available this year at our club.

[Old Dragoon]

Hello,

I'm a newbie to GOC, but not to the world of gun ownership in Canada.

Here in Alberta, the CFO won't process a restricted weapons purchase without having your club membership on file for the current year.

The justification, as has been mentioned, is that you will be registering it for target-shooting.

Those long waiting lists are alarming. Here, the closer clubs (50 km or less) all seem to be closed for membership.

The others (which all seem to be exactly 100km for me), not a problem so far.

Just a long drive.

[6MT]

West of Edmonton, there is CHAS and Wildwood. If you want a restricted firearm, you'll need a range membership for an ATT.

Those two clubs above, have no waiting period. You pay and you're a member. At CHAS, you will need to take a range safety course. No biggy.

[Edenchef]

Minor correction 6MT, you have to pass a "range orientation" at CHAS. It may be completed online.

Cheers!

[Wendell]

During this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UyspD_CmAY) debate in the House, a government member stated that - should C-42 become law - there will no longer be any requirement to belong to an approved shooting club or range.

Published to YouTube on May 26, 2015 by Battle Beaver (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5hTwOopmFmqDlPfxL0s_jw)
This video is the 3rd and FINAL Reading on May 25th 2015. Bill C-42, "Common Sense Firearms Licensing Act" in Federal Parliament during HoC Sitting No. 216 on May 25, 2015.
Next step for this Bill is to be sent to the Senate, and it should be made law by the end of June 2015.
Source of video:
http://parlvu.parl.gc.ca/parlvu/Conte... (http://parlvu.parl.gc.ca/parlvu/ContentEntityDetailView.aspx?contententityid=13013&date=20150525&lang=en)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UyspD_CmAY

[RobertMcC]

Nova Scotia they will not allow the transfer to go thru, if you do not have a current membership to a gun club.

[RangeBob]

During this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UyspD_CmAY) debate in the House, a government member stated that - should C-42 become law - there will no longer be any requirement to belong to an approved shooting club or range.


Are you sure?
I heard an MP say that if Bill C42 becomes law that there will no longer be any requirement to belong to an approved shooting range to transport a firearm there.
I did not hear an MP say that if Bill C42 becomes law that there will no longer be any requirement for a target shooter to belong to an approved shooting range to renew an RPAL.
I did not hear an MP say that if Bill C42 becomes law that there will no longer be any requirement for a target shooter to belong to an approved shooting range to purchase a restricted firearm.


John Barlow (con, alberta)

As a result of an authorization to transport being made a condition of a restricted licence, some people have asked whether it would be a requirement of getting a licence to be a member in good standing of a shooting club or shooting range. The clear answer to this is no. There would be no requirement in law for individuals to maintain a membership at a gun range in order to transport their restricted firearms.

May 25, 2015
http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Pub=Hansard&Doc=216&Parl=41&Ses=2 &Language=E&Mode=1

Admittedly, politicians are not usually accurate in their statements, but that's what he said.


I have heard a lawyer say that that there has never been any requirement for a target shooter to belong to an approved shooting range to renew an RPAL or to purchase a restricted firearm.

[Mil Specs]

You may purchase a restricted as a collector with no range membership. However this has it's own set of problems that accompany it . You must provide a letter with your application for collectors status for each firearm stating what makes it a collectible piece . This is easy enough , Back when i bought my first collector revolver everything was hand written as i didn't have a computer. Every five years the CFO/CFP held up my renewal until all the letters were re-submitted for my collector firearms. It turned out to be far easier and more fun just to join a range and shoot them .

[Edenchef]

Short legal answer: no, you don't. Complex CFO answer: yes, you do.

As put so succinctly by Awndray, at the beginning of this thread.

And this is so much the problem, today, in Canada. Bureaucrats making up "law" as they see fit, by way of regulation and they were not elected or accountable to the people or the elected representatives of this country.

Cheers!

[Wendell]

...that's what he said...

What I heard:


"...There would be no requirement in law for individuals to maintain a membership at a gun range in order to transport their restricted firearms."

Maybe that isn't what he meant.


...I have heard a lawyer say that that there has never been any requirement for a target shooter to belong to an approved shooting range to renew an RPAL or to purchase a restricted firearm.

The law requires the CFO to evaluate whether the restricted firearm(s) are actually being used for the stated purpose; if the stated purpose is "target shooting", the individual must be prepared to prove to the CFO his/her participation in target shooting. As we all know, the CFP has required the respective CFOs to require membership in at least one approved shooting club, but, in the case of a bonafide target shooter - as (Saint John) Jon Gould's court case proved - membership in an approved shooting club isn't actually required by law.

P.S.: I can't find a transcript of the Gould case...do any of you have a link to it?

[Wendell]

P.S.: I can't find a transcript of the Gould case...do any of you have a link to it?

Here it is:

Gould v. New Brunswick (Chief Firearms), 2008 NBPC 24 (CanLII)
<http://canlii.ca/t/1x0m6>
retrieved on 2015-05-31 (https://www.canlii.org/en/nb/nbpc/doc/2008/2008nbpc24/2008nbpc24.html?autocompleteStr=2008NBPC24&autocompletePos=1)