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View Full Version : * Cz958 Review, Accuracy, and Status *



TV-PressPass
03-11-2015, 04:46 PM
Because CGN is silly, they have to wait. ;) GOC gets first look. Video should be live in five...

I've had one of these in the safe and on the range for the past few weeks. Wolverine has it back now. Here's some pretty pictures and derpy words about it...


http://youtu.be/px8t8YSEt5w

The 958 weighs in at 6 lbs 11 oz in its factory configuration with an empty magazine. By the time I'd put optics and some more ergonomic furniture on mine I was up to 9 lbs 11 oz. Using a Timney Trigger scale I got a consistent pull just over 6lbs with a bit of creep to it. The rifle ships with a full 19 inch non-chromelined barrel. No restricted variants of the 958 are currently planned. The non-chromed barrel is both a blessing and a curse, as it produces better accuracy, but will require more detailed cleaning after shooting corrosive surplus ammunition. Wolverine has made it very clear that a chrome lined barrel isn't part of the initial offering, and could be several years off. Apparently the back-orders are quite deep in Czech Republic, and that additional process will certainly affect the retail price. Currently Wolverine is expecting the 958 to be under $1000, but likely higher than the original 858s, which at one point had a $600 price tag.
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8581/16753744102_5b7d9df865_z.jpg (https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8581/16753744102_b71405716f_k.jpg)
(Click for big, is the rule on all these photos)

What's Different?

This new rifle is a joint project between Wolverine Supplies in Virden Manitoba and Česká zbrojovka in the city of Uherský Brod, Czech Republic. With two major additions, they've improved the rifle and tailored its design to Canadian law.

The biggest addition is a complete top rail that removes the old dust cover, ejection port, and rear sight block. Now, instead of a massive ejection port and exposed bolt, the 958 has a flattop optics rail and a more traditional ejection. The interior of the rail acts as an extra large brass deflector.

The second addition is a scalloped space around the trigger guard. This newly manufactured receiver has an improved finish, and is deeply narrowed around the trigger guard. This does improve the ergonomics for the shooter. Magazines are easier to remove, and your finger has a natural indexing point that is off the trigger. But it also serves a deeper purpose to make sure that the Cz958 can never suffer the same fate as the Cz858. We'll come back to that when we talk about classification.

Some smaller things that are kind of neat: the finish is now a nice sharp black finish, and the reciever is now squared off. That means when you attach an aftermarket stock you're not getting the slope you used to.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7634/16135151303_53c40c7047_z.jpg (https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7634/16135151303_38f51c2161_k.jpg)

Over several range trips, I shot groups from a bench at 100 yards, and allowed the barrel to cool between shots. I used four and five shot groups, and did some quick calculation using the-long-family.com's Group Size Statistical Analysis (http://www.the-long-family.com/group_size_analysis.htm). This system uses a simple model and produces an average based on multiple groups with varying numbers of shots. So although I only had a single box of Hornaday Z-Max compared to several hundred rounds of Polish surplus, the group sizes can be compared based on a 100,000 shot statistical model.

I went in to the comparison expecting Hornaday's Z-Max ammunition to be the best shooter. After all, it is the most expensive, and one of the only ballistic tip options for the caliber. But I was shocked to find the Polish surplus rounds routinely outperformed every other type of ammunition.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7627/16134748553_6d67375464_z.jpg (https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7627/16134748553_10f58cce84_k.jpg)

What's underneath that dust cover?

I'm glad you asked Jimmy...
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7283/16754778445_d512cd4a85_z.jpg (https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7283/16754778445_885ce34ef7_k.jpg)

For anyone too lazy to watch the video... As of writing, and to the best of my knowledge, the Cz958 has yet to receive an FRT after at least seven months of inspection. Of course, I cannot say for certain, because that database is not available to the public, and the lab is not exactly a "call and chat" operation.

Because I know some one who wandered over from another site is probably about to overheat their keyboard in an race to tell me how bad and wrong I was to take this gun outdoors and shoot it, lets do a little thought experiment together...



1. We can recognize that this rifle is based of the Sa.58 platform. Whether you call it a Cz858, Vz58, FSN, Sa.58 etc, I can see the shared gas system, magazines etc.

2. We can look in at the Criminal Code's prohibited weapons order, and see that none of the models and names above are listed. So this rifle isn't 12(4) or 12(5)

3. We can run a dowel down the barrel, and measure where it hits the bolt face. This rifle has a full 19 inch barrel. So I know it is not restricted due to barrel length.

4. We can hold the trigger down, and watch as only one round is fired. We know that this is not an a 12(2) automatic rifle.

5. Now the definition of 12(3) converted automatics has been a problem in the past. I have only a base level understanding of automatic fire, but I know that it requires an extra sear and an extra disconnecter in my trigger pack, and an extra setting on my safety. I can see that my safety only has two settings, stop and go. I can also see that the areas where one might try to fit an additional sear and disconnecter are scalloped away. So even if I had the parts, had the will, and had the machining skill to reshape the receiver to accept those components, I would just end up putting holes in the gun.

Now here's the kicker...


"Firearms are classified under the Criminal Code and its supporting regulations. As such the RCMP does not have the authority to classify firearms. However, in order to fulfill its statutory role of registering firearms, the RCMP must form an opinion as to the classification of a firearm if the classification is not explicitly set out in the Criminal Code and its supporting regulations. This expert technical opinion is captured in the FRT."



-RCMP Briefing Note to Public Safety Minister Steven Blaney


The firearm I was given met all the requirements laid out in the criminal code to be non-restricted.

So whats keeping Wolverine from importing en masse? Watch the video you lazy git! Or don't, and instead read on...

Canadian Border Services does refer to the FRT when processing the import of firearms. They can hold a shipment and request that technical opinion, even though these rifles do not need to be registered. As a result, we & Wolverine are kept waiting while the RCMP takes months doing what took me 5 minutes.

There will be a short musical break (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ2RmFcxoDs), and then I'll be back to take questions...

TV-PressPass
03-11-2015, 04:53 PM
Fun Fact: I die a little inside everytime I hear myself try to say Česká zbrojovka

Petamocto
03-11-2015, 04:58 PM
I guess the first questions that come to mind are what sorts of rifles do you feel are compatible in the category, and is this better or worse than them in which way? That leads to whether or not you would buy one if in were NR or Restricted, based on what else is out there for sale.

As for the name, that's why people call it CZ.

lone-wolf
03-11-2015, 05:03 PM
TVPP, rear sight, peep? Why not at the rear?
Also, is it really useable with the straight stock and the low mounted sights?

TV-PressPass
03-11-2015, 05:23 PM
Or live in fifty minutes. Fricken youtube. :mad1:


I guess the first questions that come to mind are what sorts of rifles do you feel are compatible in the category, and is this better or worse than them in which way? That leads to whether or not you would buy one if in were NR or Restricted, based on what else is out there for sale.

Do you want the option for .223 or short barrels? Then go for a CSA Vz58.

Do you have a weird penchant for rare and funny looking guns? Try to buy an FSN!

Do you like things Soviet style? Stick with the regular 858 when bill C42 passes, and don't expect anyone to ever import one again.

But if you like optics, and a 7.62x39 rifle that's good to go. I'd take the 958. Now that's depending on price of course. If wolverine jumps it up to $1500 I can build something similar with a worse height over bore out of a CSA.


TVPP, rear sight, peep? Why not at the rear?
Also, is it really useable with the straight stock and the low mounted sights?

It's a V slot. And if you put it at the rear it's too close! For a similar effect try bringing your handgun sights right up to your eye. You need a little distance for things to line up!

But bonus: you could mount like an LPA rear ghost ring and that would work. The rail is low enough that you have options.

For your second question, do you mean irons or optics? I probably wouldn't use irons with the cheek riser stock, but the factory setup felt fine.

BrotherRockeye
03-11-2015, 05:39 PM
2 things...

I want one...

and when I try to watch the vid it says it was removed by the user...


oh and thanks for the live link to the long family sight

cobrajr122
03-11-2015, 05:42 PM
Its not removed, its processing. Depending on the length it could take a while, YT is slow :P

ReignCzech
03-11-2015, 06:02 PM
Right on, excellent write up, thanks for this...

so first thing is, is when and where are the barrel trunnion assembly to receiver jig, trunnion torque screws or rivets, internal trigger mech parts kits ( if different than cz/vz/csa 58/858) and receivers with receiver covers, blue prints/ schematics and the czech technical order armourers manuals are coming?
you know so the entirety of the nation can switch their thousands of $ of cz/vz 58/858's over to the 958 mod1 retrofit compliance NR RCMP fudd classification bypass.

many of us are more than capable of building their own switch over 958.
anyone else can follow the book and try or of course wolverine, perhaps others as well, will have the service available at costs.

I don't know how anyone else thinks, however for myself I like the iron sights or the 58/858's we have as well as the co-witness side mount/ scope/posp we have already as setups. this 958 doesn't have a rear iron sight on this model anyways.

guess building a jig to fit these will be a side service as well.

GunsNotPuns
03-11-2015, 06:36 PM
Good review. I'm kind of happy that I can't get this because if I tried to bring home another rifle right now and got caught my heart would be carved out of my chest :cool1:

Edit: Video still unavailable.

Fredo
03-11-2015, 06:49 PM
Terrible review.

Now... I want one bad! and I'm currently broke lol

Thanks for sharing!

Mark-II
03-11-2015, 07:50 PM
I was hoping that, since they let one out, that it was the beginning of a big release announcement

kennymo
03-11-2015, 08:44 PM
I was hoping that, since they let one out, that it was the beginning of a big release announcement

Nonononono, let them wait until I have $900 or so kicking around....

BrotherRockeye
03-11-2015, 08:56 PM
Good review. I'm kind of happy that I can't get this because if I tried to bring home another rifle right now and got caught my heart would be carved out of my chest :cool1:

Edit: Video still unavailable.

it's not unavailable,
its processing. Depending on the length it could take a while, YT is slow :P :)


Nonononono, let them wait until I have $900 or so kicking around....

I just sold one of my Mini14's :)

TV-PressPass
03-11-2015, 09:30 PM
Gawd. Damn. That took way too long! I guess sometimes that encoding can take up to 8 hours to process *blech*

Here she is! Looks like the HD is still encoding. Didn't realize this was a full 2 gigs to upload!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=px8t8YSEt5w

coastal
03-11-2015, 10:13 PM
Good video. ;) Thanks!

Canada_Phil
03-12-2015, 06:36 AM
Thanks.

This helps confirm that the gun for me is actually a VZ58, which I will buy as soon as its confirmed that the CZ/Wolverine FlusterCluck of their own making has not tainted the entire 58 "family" product line.

6MT
03-12-2015, 06:57 AM
I'm definately in for one! Thanks for the look!

kennymo
03-12-2015, 08:10 AM
Thanks.

This helps confirm that the gun for me is actually a VZ58, which I will buy as soon as its confirmed that the CZ/Wolverine FlusterCluck of their own making has not tainted the entire 58 "family" product line.

It hasn't, otherwise the first batch of imports wouldn't still be non restricted...

Mark-II
03-12-2015, 08:16 AM
I'm still waffling between this and an x39 AR upper, in truth. The upper would be cheaper, and probably more comfortable/ergonomic, especially with the increased LOP over the stock CZ.

Only thing I don't like about the VZ58 is that all of them seem to come with AR stocks, making them into the original fugly stick

Canada_Phil
03-12-2015, 08:31 AM
It hasn't, otherwise the first batch of imports wouldn't still be non restricted...

I honestly don't think that proves anything since they were all Non-Restricted originally.

I would surmise that the whole reason this has gone on for sooooooo long is that the RCMP has been going over their entire file on the SA58 line going back 20 years and...
- getting as many versions of said line as possible for testing and inspection.
- comparing every square mm. of various versions, against the post-2007?? Receivers that started this whole fiasco.
- developing a strategy where they can LUMP the ENTIRE 58 family into a recommendation for Government where they can now refer to whole line as "SA58 and "VARIANTS""

You know... ie: AK and "Variants" AR and "Variants".

A catch all phrase like that can doom what could very well have been called the best rifle going on the Canadian market... And I would ONLY blame CZ and Wolverine for that... If that in fact comes to pass.

kennymo
03-12-2015, 08:40 AM
I honestly don't think that proves anything since they were all Non-Restricted originally.

I would surmise that the whole reason this has gone on for sooooooo long is that the RCMP has been going over their entire file on the SA58 line going back 20 years and...
- getting as many versions of said line as possible for testing and inspection.
- comparing every square mm. of various versions, against the post-2007?? Receivers that started this whole fiasco.
- developing a strategy where they can LUMP the ENTIRE 58 family into a recommendation for Government where they can now refer to whole line as "SA58 and "VARIANTS""

You know... ie: AK and "Variants" AR and "Variants".

A catch all phrase like that can doom what could very well have been called the best rifle going on the Canadian market... And I would ONLY blame CZ and Wolverine for that... If that in fact comes to pass.

So, you're basing everything on a wild shot in the dark guess instead of reading up on what's actually happened/happening?
We know that top brass at the RCMP want basically all semi automatic centre fires gone or restricted, as well as 'tactical' rimfire rifles and all 50 BMG rifles, their hit list from a few years back was leaked just over a year ago. But what they want and what they can legally do are two very different things. That's why they were petitioning the government with their list....all we have to worry about is the Liberals or NDP coming to power, and hopefully the final version of C-42 will alleviate some of that issue.

Canada_Phil
03-12-2015, 08:52 AM
My "wild shot in the dark" is my opinion... And I also partly base it on the fact that it is now also next to impossible to find any retailer stocking the CSA VZ58... And I dont mean an internet seller!

And if there is a so called "hit list", CZ knowingly made it EASY for the RCMP to go at them, and F. it up for everyone.

kennymo
03-12-2015, 08:54 AM
My "wild shot in the dark" is my opinion... And I also partly base it on the fact that it is now also next to impossible to find any retailer stocking the CSA VZ58... And I dont mean an internet seller!

And if there is a so called "hit list", CZ knowingly made it EASY for the RCMP to go at them, and F. it up for everyone.

Uh huh.

Canada_Phil
03-12-2015, 10:06 AM
I'm still waffling between this and an x39 AR upper, in truth. The upper would be cheaper, and probably more comfortable/ergonomic, especially with the increased LOP over the stock CZ.

Only thing I don't like about the VZ58 is that all of them seem to come with AR stocks, making them into the original fugly stick

Yeah... Its made worse due to the angle of the back of the VZ58 putting the "slant to it"... Somebody out there must have a simple shim or spacer piece that would flatten that out? (i have not look deeply into it yet). From my point of view, the FLAT back receiver is the only "new" feature that the 958 gets right.

Here is a possible "odd-ball" 7.62 choice with a full length aluminum upper rail for you to consider (I am)...

The Ruger Mini 30 placed into an Archangel Sparta stock.

superbad
03-12-2015, 10:17 AM
i like it but at 3 moa it will never touch 3 gun, however it will make a good boar rifle. I hear sask and alberta will have a bad infestation this year.

Doug_M
03-12-2015, 10:38 AM
I would surmise that the whole reason this has gone on for sooooooo long is that the RCMP has been going over their entire file on the SA58 line going back 20 years and...
- getting as many versions of said line as possible for testing and inspection.
- comparing every square mm. of various versions, against the post-2007?? Receivers that started this whole fiasco.
- developing a strategy where they can LUMP the ENTIRE 58 family into a recommendation for Government where they can now refer to whole line as "SA58 and "VARIANTS""

In August the government introduced regulations whereby one year after a firearm has been issued an FRT it can never be changed, except by the government (not RCMP) itself through OIC. Ergo no SA58 variant that is current non-restricted or restricted can be classified as prohibited by the RCMP even, and let me be clear hear, even if the RCMP determined that it was a converted auto. So the older models that weren't prohibited in March 2014 can NEVER be prohibited by the RCMP. And if the 958 is given a non-restricted FRT say (I'm making this date up) June 2015, then by June 2016 it can also never be prohibited by the RCMP.

Doug_M
03-12-2015, 10:39 AM
I'm still waffling between this and an x39 AR upper, in truth. The upper would be cheaper, and probably more comfortable/ergonomic, especially with the increased LOP over the stock CZ.

Don't you need a special lower too as the magwell is very different? Ergo a whole new rifle not just the upper?

Weekend Gunslingers
03-12-2015, 11:24 AM
Nice Review - TVPP

TV-PressPass
03-12-2015, 11:27 AM
Fun Fact: Everytime I hear that Spanish guitar in the first 4 seconds I laugh like an idiot.

Canada_Phil
03-12-2015, 11:41 AM
In August the government introduced regulations whereby one year after a firearm has been issued an FRT it can never be changed, except by the government (not RCMP) itself through OIC. Ergo no SA58 variant that is current non-restricted or restricted can be classified as prohibited by the RCMP even, and let me be clear hear, even if the RCMP determined that it was a converted auto. So the older models that weren't prohibited in March 2014 can NEVER be prohibited by the RCMP. And if the 958 is given a non-restricted FRT say (I'm making this date up) June 2015, then by June 2016 it can also never be prohibited by the RCMP.

Thanks, I get what the Government is trying to do going forward, and I hope anyone who has a model that uses a receiver than was truly purposefully designed as a "new" receiver for Semi-Auto action only (like the Century Arms & CSA stuff) has nothing to worry about.

Based on all the topics I have been reading through at CGN, the RCMP appears to be building a case where they believe CZ KNOWINGLY began using surplus former Czech military FULL AUTO 58 receivers at a later date, which would be in direct contravention of Cdn. reg's. This type of receiver could never have "passed" under the original FRT inspection approvals many, many, years ago.

How does anyone feel that any 858's that may be deemed to be former full auto 58's will get a pass from the Government?? This is NOT what the measures introduced by the Government intend to do. Otherwise, NONE of the reg's of the Firearms act can be taken seriously, and that would mean that ANY former full auto receiver would have to be given a pass?

Canada_Phil
03-12-2015, 11:54 AM
Bahahaha...

This is kind of surreal. I just at this very moment got an automated email from AL Flaherty's saying the CSA58 is back in stock!! Just 1 though!! As much as a want to call and buy it, Im going to wait until this whole mess is sorted.

BrotherRockeye
03-12-2015, 12:01 PM
Fun Fact: Everytime I hear that Spanish guitar in the first 4 seconds I laugh like an idiot.


good to know I'm not alone...I even replayed it for my daughter! ;D

Doug_M
03-12-2015, 12:04 PM
How does anyone feel that any 858's that may be deemed to be former full auto 58's will get a pass from the Government?? This is NOT what the measures introduced by the Government intend to do. Otherwise, NONE of the reg's of the Firearms act can be taken seriously, and that would mean that ANY former full auto receiver would have to be given a pass?

Although I play one on TV, I'm not a lawyer. But the regulation introduced last summer is indeed precisely designed to do just that. That is to say they intended it to prevent the RCMP from changing a rifle's class EVEN if they mistakenly gave a converted auto a non-restricted FRT.

That does not mean just any former full auto gets a pass. It is all about time frame, one year from initial FRT to fix their mistakes otherwise it stands as is full stop.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Canada_Phil
03-12-2015, 12:17 PM
Yes, I get that Doug.

But the whole premise assumes that the receiver design in question is the SAME one approved in the original FRT. I get and fully agree with the idea that a gun should be given an inspection process, and if approved, should be good to go for all law abiding consumers without fear.

But what occurred with CZ at some later point is murky at best. This is a very delicate issue, and the Government needs to tread carefully. (Btw... I have no idea what the Swiss Arms issue is really about and DON'T care).

I'm just a guy who wants to get a VZ58. But I don't want to lose $1,000.

kennymo
03-12-2015, 12:28 PM
Thanks, I get what the Government is trying to do going forward, and I hope anyone who has a model that uses a receiver than was truly purposefully designed as a "new" receiver for Semi-Auto action only (like the Century Arms & CSA stuff) has nothing to worry about.

Based on all the topics I have been reading through at CGN, the RCMP appears to be building a case where they believe CZ KNOWINGLY began using surplus former Czech military FULL AUTO 58 receivers at a later date, which would be in direct contravention of Cdn. reg's. This type of receiver could never have "passed" under the original FRT inspection approvals many, many, years ago.

How does anyone feel that any 858's that may be deemed to be former full auto 58's will get a pass from the Government?? This is NOT what the measures introduced by the Government intend to do. Otherwise, NONE of the reg's of the Firearms act can be taken seriously, and that would mean that ANY former full auto receiver would have to be given a pass?

From my understanding of what Wolverine has been posting (and everyone else's opinion on CGN should be taken with a grain of salt the size of a cinder block) there is no issue with using a military receiver to produce these guns. PROVIDED that they were never previously assembled into fully automatic rifles. From early on it was known that these receivers were coming from parts over runs for the Czech government (and whoever else might be using these), then milled or welded so that the full auto parts will not fit inside. What the RCMP has claimed is that they have proof that at least some of the later production was built on receivers stripped off previously assembled rifles, which is where the BS 'converted auto' designation comes from. And AFAIK they still have yet to discuss just how they figured this out...

Mark-II
03-12-2015, 12:36 PM
Here is a possible "odd-ball" 7.62 choice with a full length aluminum upper rail for you to consider (I am)...

The Ruger Mini 30 placed into an Archangel Sparta stock.

I thought that the Mini 30 is not recommended to be run with corrosive primed ammo, though, or even steel case stuff?


Don't you need a special lower too as the magwell is very different? Ergo a whole new rifle not just the upper?

There are some that are special, and use AK mags, but from all I've read ones like NEA, Windham, Armalite - all use Stanag mags, modified to feed x39

Same goes for XCR - I shot a fellows x39 XCR last year. Nice rifle, but more than I want to spend on a fun gun

Canada_Phil
03-12-2015, 12:38 PM
Yeah... Therein lies part of the problem. It makes your head spin just trying to understand it.

Guess we will just have to wait for some kind of written report drafted by the RCMP for this all to be made clear.

6MT
03-12-2015, 01:07 PM
Fun Fact: Everytime I hear that Spanish guitar in the first 4 seconds I laugh like an idiot.

I hear a small violin every time certain posters post.

Canada_Phil
03-12-2015, 01:07 PM
I thought that the Mini 30 is not recommended to be run with corrosive primed ammo, though, or even steel case stuff?


Yes... It could be hit or miss. Some buyers report ZERO issue with surplus while others have issues. But, I found a very detailed YouTube vid of a pissed off user who got to the bottom of the problem... It turned out to be a poorly machined bolt face in his (sort of a "volcano" bump in the centre around the firing pin opening which caused issues with the primer). After a little time spent carefully filing down the bolt face flat, the Mini30 ran flawlessly with Surplus.

But geez Ruger! That should have been good to go right out of the box!! I don't have the link right now, but will try to find again later. EDIT: I think it was this one....
https://youtube.com/watch?v=yM9AOf0gzsc

Come to think of it, the Ruger in 7.62 would be the perfect direct comparison to a 958. Just under $1,000 for a Mini30, but about $1,250 with the Sparta stock which gives it a large upper aluminum rail area. Maybe worth considering and comparing if your whole reason for liking the 958 is the rail. The real Ruger mag's are EXPENSIVE though!

harbl_the_cat
03-12-2015, 01:09 PM
Where are you shooting, TVPP?

Also liked for Firebirds :P

Mark-II
03-12-2015, 02:51 PM
How is the Ruger for ease of cleaning out the gas system. Admitedly I've not looked at them in a detailed way, but I got the impression that one isn't supposed to disassemble them regularly ("self cleaning" gas system and such).

I admit that for me the ease of cleaning is a biggy. That's mostly why I have a few thousand rounds of x39 and have not shot an SKS in 3 years ;)

I figure that with an AR I can lube it with Ballistol, which compounds with water, then just hose the whole thing out under the hot water tap.

Still, the CZ is interesting, and that sometimes is all that it takes.

JustBen
03-12-2015, 03:21 PM
I'm not sold on it. I really wanted a chrome lined barrel.

But at least you could mount a real scope on this one. To be honest, I expected better accuracy. Is the dust cover / rail shifting at all? How did it hold zero when you took the cover off?

kennymo
03-12-2015, 03:34 PM
I'm not sold on it. I really wanted a chrome lined barrel.

But at least you could mount a real scope on this one. To be honest, I expected better accuracy. Is the dust cover / rail shifting at all? How did it hold zero when you took the cover off?

How was the accuracy on the 858's? I don't recall the ones I shot to have been much better.

Canada_Phil
03-12-2015, 03:45 PM
How is the Ruger for ease of cleaning out the gas system.

I couldn't tell you, as I DON'T own a Ruger... Yet?

Its just also another one that I have been thinking of getting. But since 7.62 seems to be rapidly becoming my "favourite" calibre, I could easily see myself getting a Mini30 one day... If for no other reason than just poop's n' giggles. :)

I do think a Ruger in a Sparta stock does have serious funky factor though.

JustBen
03-12-2015, 04:48 PM
How was the accuracy on the 858's? I don't recall the ones I shot to have been much better.

About the same... But I figured that to be a function of the lack of optics.

Canada_Phil
03-12-2015, 04:55 PM
I just think that if someone was serious about hunting with 7.62, they would probably be better off with something like the Zastava M85 mini-Mauser at $599.

kennymo
03-12-2015, 05:27 PM
I just think that if someone was serious about hunting with 7.62, they would probably be better off with something like the Zastava M85 mini-Mauser at $599.

Yeah, I strongly prefer a bolt for hunting, and if you're going that route, you may as well get a 35 Whelen and to heck with the 7.62x39. :) I would like a 858/958 as a 'for the sheer helluvit' gun. Also to piss off a Liberal....

Canada_Phil
03-12-2015, 07:37 PM
There are some that are special, and use AK mags, but from all I've read ones like NEA, Windham, Armalite -

Hey... Funny. You mentioned it and YouTube delivered. There is a brand new very detailed video review of the Windham AR in 7.62 on the "Team Sootch" channel.

That guy makes really makes excellent, informative reviews. I have to admit that Windham in 7.62 has really peaked my interest now!

Damn!

Hahaha.

Doug_M
03-13-2015, 04:59 AM
Hey... Funny. You mentioned it and YouTube delivered. There is a brand new very detailed video review of the Windham AR in 7.62 on the "Team Sootch" channel.

That guy makes really makes excellent, informative reviews. I have to admit that Windham in 7.62 has really peaked my interest now!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zPHac8Vvi4

Canada_Phil
03-13-2015, 07:08 AM
Thanks Doug!

I didn't have the link handy at the time I posted that. If some of you have never seen the "Sootch" reviews before and like his presentation style, you can search through his recent reviews and you will also find s detailed one on the US version of the VZ58 (to bring it back to something more related to the 958 topic for a comparison). I think it was the Century Arms version if I recall correctly.

EDIT:(another 15 min. One) here...

https://youtube.com/watch?v=J33CQILPPjs

Mark-II
03-13-2015, 10:58 PM
If Windham uppers became available I'd go that route. I just don't want to buy another complete AR. It's modular, so why not take advantage of that, I say.

Grizz Axxemann
03-14-2015, 12:45 AM
Hey TVPP, I noticed the 958 top covers bolt on. There's really no way to get the 958 looking more like the 858, is there?

Canada_Phil
03-16-2015, 06:43 AM
Hey TVPP, I noticed the 958 top covers bolt on. There's really no way to get the 958 looking more like the 858, is there?

Its looks that way to me, which is why I have decided against this and am just waiting for this fiasco to be sorted so that I can instead get a VZ58 from CSA without fear of losing $1,000.

TV-PressPass
03-16-2015, 09:35 AM
Hey TVPP, I noticed the 958 top covers bolt on. There's really no way to get the 958 looking more like the 858, is there?

Nope, if you take a look under the hood, there's no sight block or anything there.

http://i.imgur.com/LbqwcUS.jpg


Its looks that way to me, which is why I have decided against this and am just waiting for this fiasco to be sorted so that I can instead get a VZ58 from CSA without fear of losing $1,000.

Because you think the RCMP might reclassify this too 12 years down the road? I'm pretty sure the current mess has been a headache for them too, and I doubt their keen to repeat it. If they're going to pull some BS out of their butts to try and control this, they'll do it now during the inspection process.

Canada_Phil
03-16-2015, 09:55 AM
Nope, if you take a look under the hood, there's no sight block or anything there.

http://i.imgur.com/LbqwcUS.jpg



Because you think the RCMP might reclassify this too 12 years down the road? I'm pretty sure the current mess has been a headache for them too, and I doubt their keen to repeat it. If they're going to pull some BS out of their butts to try and control this, they'll do it now during the inspection process.

Nope...

It is for the very simple fact that they took a very brilliantly designed tried and tested VZ58 with a no tool, very easy take down, and enormous open bolt area that I can drive a truck through (no stove pipes or fail to eject jams in that thing!!) and created something that is inferior to the original IMO.

Added to that is that the ability to charge directly from Stripper Clip is now gone, along with definately no chrome barrel and the answer for me is the VZ58... As you yourself stated at the start if your piece. I had been very intetested in seeing the 958 wondering if it might be the one I want. Your piece helped to confirm for ME, that it is not... So thanks.

Im just waiting to ensure the entire line has not been tainted before I plunk down a $1,000. As nothing is certain with this... C42 or not.

Grizz Axxemann
03-16-2015, 11:27 PM
Nope, if you take a look under the hood, there's no sight block or anything there.


Ugh. That does not bode well for me. I had my 858 dressed up with the NEA cantilever setup and ended up not liking it after a couple of years (granted, I didn't shoot it at all last year) so I'd much prefer something with irons already built in.

Weekend Gunslingers
08-04-2015, 04:07 PM
any new info on these being available?

kennymo
08-04-2015, 05:58 PM
Latest I can dig up from Wolverine is they've been at the lab since sometime in June....awaiting FRT #. Lab techs probably desperately taping Popsicle sticks to it hoping it'll go bang on top of an AR lower.... (Yes, that is a real thing....)

Mark-II
08-04-2015, 06:25 PM
Ugh... The gun has neither auto sear nor place to stick one. Pass it.

Any esoteric workaround beyond that means it's neither easy nor reliable nor repeatable to make it burst.

kennymo
08-04-2015, 06:30 PM
I was actually wondering about these myself on Friday. The 858 is cool and all, glad they're back where they belong, but having a top rail on the receiver is cat's a$$. I'd still like to get one, unless the low dollar sinks the deal. Not sure how we compare to the Czechs dollar wise right now.