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View Full Version : Why do manual safeties make things so difficult?



Hardhead
07-29-2015, 09:22 PM
Another newbie question...

I remember when I was taking the PAL course, I found it strange and frustrating that on many guns, if the safety was on, you couldn't open the action. At that time, it was mostly bolt-action rifles that I found that. Now that I have my first pistol, it's the same again: with the safety on, you can't pull back the slide.

Why is that? I'd prefer to leave the safety on all the time, except when I'm about to fire it. Why do I have to take it off safety before I can check if it's loaded?

- Ron

kennymo
07-29-2015, 09:28 PM
Buy a different pistol? None of mine have a safety at all. Rifles too, depends on design. Many can be opened with the safety on, many have a three position lever that allows you to open the bolt with the safety on. I personally don't think it's a big deal, but I really don't like safties at all. The only ones I ever use are on shotguns while in the blind. Point the gun in a safe direction (which you should be doing anyway), flick it off and check the chamber. No worries.

lone-wolf
07-29-2015, 09:32 PM
On the xbolt, if the safety is on there is a button that pops up on the bolt handle you have to manipulate when opening the action.
Seems over engineered for lawyers but kind of neat.

Generally you can either blame lawyers or just plain poor design for bad safeties.

Rory McCanuck
07-29-2015, 09:49 PM
That X-Bolt dealio is kinda cool.
I like the mauser 3 position safety that'll let you cycle things while on safe.
The half-cock notch on a Marlin or Winchester lever gun is my favourite. Better be careful unloading before getting in the truck ;)

Steveo9mm
07-29-2015, 10:31 PM
My trigger finger is the saftey. I hate manual saftey. Its either off all the time or im using a gun without one like a glock.

FALover
07-30-2015, 12:50 AM
My Beretta 92's safety must be an anomaly. It just flicks up for safe, down for fire and never makes anything difficult.

hercster
07-30-2015, 01:24 AM
I don't see the thumb safety to be at all difficult. With the 1911 it's a quick sweep that becomes second nature either way. My Tanfoglios allow the safety to be operated at any time as do the CZ's where applicable and others including an FNP I owned. For me the safety is also a natural index point for my strong thumb and is part of my grip. All my guns have external safeties and they all follow the up for safe and down for off convention. A mix might create some confusion in the automatic brain but not for long with a practised shooter. Some don't like the grip safety either. It has never been a problem for me from day one and I wouldn't even consider having it pinned.

Hardhead
07-30-2015, 07:10 AM
I just thought of a possible answer for myself, as to why so many guns are like that.

The striker and firing pin mechanisms are in the bolt or slide. If the manual safety involves a firing-pin block, then something is going to have come up out of the receiver and engage something in the bolt/slide. That will prevent the bolt/slide from moving.

Not a problem for the Beretta 92, with its slide-mounted safety.

50 B.M.G.
07-30-2015, 09:54 AM
My trigger finger is the saftey. I hate manual saftey. Its either off all the time or im using a gun without one like a glock.

My safety is the grey matter that keeps my ears from slamming together. This endangered grey matter controls the trigger finger along with many other functions.
My thinking is that if a safety mechanism is too complicated for the user, maybe they should have a stick rather than a gun.

Mark-II
07-30-2015, 10:40 AM
Well, if your pistol is a 1911 the safety is for carrying it cocked and locked. If it's on then it's assumed that youve already loaded and readied the gun.

For bolt action rifles I read somewhere that it's to prevent the bolt coming open and possibly falling out of a slung rifle being carried through brush and the like. Also keeps crud out of the action by keeping it closed.

As above, though - I don't use safeties. Either the gun is loaded and about to be fired, or it is unloaded. If I'm in a situation where a gun must be rendered safe, the ammunition is removed and the action is unlocked.

If I hunted it would be the same - I'd rather the animal hear me racking the action and bolt, than carry a rifle with one up the spout. That did happen to me once, actually. boo hoo ;)

kennymo
07-30-2015, 10:45 AM
I just can't bring myself to trust most safties. An Uncle and a couple close buddies have had close calls with them, both through defect and negligence in thinking that the safety is on. (The last guy is a moron, I will never, ever go hunting with. Who the hell checks to see if the safety is on by pulling the trigger?). The only devices I have any faith in at all are the half cock and the transfer bar safety. Anything else, that gun gets pointed in a safe direction at all times until I'm damn sure it's unloaded and double checked. For hunting purposes, if I'm carrying a bolt action the handle is kept out of battery until I'm ready to shoot. If I'm slinging it on the shoulder, the chamber is empty.

FlyingHigh
08-23-2015, 11:34 AM
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/z2rIbMAp1Hk/maxresdefault.jpg

RobertMcC
08-23-2015, 11:45 AM
I never use safeties..

My mauser the safety wont go on with the scope on, It has a position I can cycle the action tho.

The Mosin I don't have a safety ( Unless I manually drop the cocking piece )

The Cooey no safety, only de cock it.

My single action no safety, just position of the hammer.

My Single shot shotgun, no safety just hammer position.

My 1911s are the only one I use the safety, when shooting matches I have a loaded gun.

Then again I dont trust no mechanical safety but my own.

Steveo9mm
08-23-2015, 01:23 PM
My safety is the grey matter that keeps my ears from slamming together. This endangered grey matter controls the trigger finger along with many other functions.
My thinking is that if a safety mechanism is too complicated for the user, maybe they should have a stick rather than a gun.

Who the hell said it was to complicated. heres a stick for you

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtf1/v/t1.0-9/11873628_401361626741185_5013540874661411591_n.jpg ?oh=51d7d98c0978790c3e08d3264bc427ab&oe=568435C6

ScottNT
08-23-2015, 01:33 PM
Is all part of running the gun. On my 1911 I dont even know that im switching it off, just memory.

CLW .45
08-25-2015, 11:08 AM
I just can't bring myself to trust most safties. An Uncle and a couple close buddies have had close calls with them, both through defect and negligence in thinking that the safety is on. (The last guy is a moron, I will never, ever go hunting with. Who the hell checks to see if the safety is on by pulling the trigger?). The only devices I have any faith in at all are the half cock and the transfer bar safety. Anything else, that gun gets pointed in a safe direction at all times until I'm damn sure it's unloaded and double checked. For hunting purposes, if I'm carrying a bolt action the handle is kept out of battery until I'm ready to shoot. If I'm slinging it on the shoulder, the chamber is empty.

Please, tell us that you DON'T consider the half cock, transfer bar, or having checked that it is unloaded to be an excuse to NOT point that gun "in a safe direction at all times."

kennymo
08-25-2015, 11:16 AM
Please, tell us that you DON'T consider the half cock, transfer bar, or having checked that it is unloaded to be an excuse to NOT point that gun "in a safe direction at all times."

Don't be ridiculous. They're just the only ones I bother using at all so far as carrying with a round in the chamber goes....

CLW .45
08-25-2015, 12:09 PM
Don't be ridiculous. They're just the only ones I bother using at all so far as carrying with a round in the chamber goes....

Thanks for clarifying that.

Your bolded statement was worrisome.