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View Full Version : Liberals set to unveil plan to court veteran vote



matty86suk
08-24-2015, 06:54 AM
Liberals set to unveil plan to court veteran vote

Hair-doo has a point here...

http://www.cbc.ca/m/news/topstories/canada-election-2015-liberals-set-to-unveil-plan-to-court-veteran-vote-1.3201268

kennymo
08-24-2015, 07:07 AM
The switch from lifetime pensions to a series of lump sum payments under the new veterans charter, which was conceived under Paul Martin's Liberals in 2005, is one of the biggest complaints among wounded soldiers.

Wait a second, aren't we b###hing about Conservatives here?

conger
08-24-2015, 07:16 AM
Wait a second, aren't we b###hing about Conservatives here?
We should never forget that it is typically Liberals that have screwed CF members and Veterans.

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Doug_M
08-24-2015, 07:22 AM
The Liberals taketh away and the Liberals giveth?

conger
08-24-2015, 07:28 AM
The Liberals taketh away and the Liberals giveth?
Still pissed about the "pension claw back"

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Claidemore
08-24-2015, 07:50 AM
The libs posted their pro-veteran ad on faysebook. So far, 1 person out of every 1000 who views it 'likes' it.

soulchaser
08-24-2015, 08:08 AM
The Liberals taketh away and the Liberals giveth?

The Liberals PROMISE to giveth to get your vote, then ignoreth their promises after they're elected..

conger
08-24-2015, 08:14 AM
The Liberals PROMISE to giveth to get your vote, then ignoreth their promises.
That sounds about right.

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Billythreefeathers
08-24-2015, 08:20 AM
there are good and bad points to both systems,, the one time pay out gives you all your claim up front so you can use the whole amount now,, the lifetime pension is often so small it's insulting

real life time pension example - a lifetime pension for hearing loss about $105 a month,, if he lives another 30 years he'll have received $37800

real life lump sum example - hearing loss lump sum $75000

different people are in different situations,,

the liberals have the worst track record for the treatment of VETs,, just ask any WW2 or Korean VET if you can find one

yes we had to scream and shout at the CPC,, but the difference they tend to listen

RangeBob
08-24-2015, 09:28 AM
there are good and bad points to both systems,, the one time pay out gives you all your claim up front so you can use the whole amount now,, the lifetime pension is often so small it's insulting

I thought the advantage to the one time payout was so that the wounded veteran could buy a single level bungalow (no stairs), equip the outside with wheelchair ramps, and make changes to the kitchens and bathrooms and doorways, to accommodate physical needs.
And the disadvantage is food, heat, electricity, ...

matty86suk
08-24-2015, 11:02 AM
I'd like to see an option. I figure the last thing you want to give a troopy that suffered physical and mental trauma is a lump sum and a kick out the door. At least in my opinion. But the stoker with bad knees and hearing loss sure, take the lump sum...case by case

Foxer
08-24-2015, 11:07 AM
well the bottom line is that even tho the libs will probably be worse to vetrans and military in general in the long term, the CPC really did drop the ball with that group at least from an optics point of view and a lot of military people who don't follow politics that much will look at it as a positive. Fantino just handled that whole portfolio badly and the CPC didn't get it's act together on the issues either. So they've left the door open.

Well see. Hopefully the military will look at the other comments justin makes (whip out our cf-18's) and will realize he's not their friend.

Billythreefeathers
08-24-2015, 12:22 PM
I'd like to see an option. I figure the last thing you want to give a troopy that suffered physical and mental trauma is a lump sum and a kick out the door. At least in my opinion. But the stoker with bad knees and hearing loss sure, take the lump sum...case by case

the pay outs are not part of any on going medical treatment for VETs ,, example you suffer a hearing loss $$$,,, plus you receive any required treatments or medical devices to help you through day to day living - i.e. hearing aids, batteries with either option. The same would apply to have modifications done to your house to make it more livable for you,, ramps, lifts,, etc,,

Fantino, as Minister was an insulting choice, but as I have said,, the Liberals were never on our side

Petamocto
08-24-2015, 02:05 PM
there are good and bad points to both systems,, the one time pay out gives you all your claim up front so you can use the whole amount now,, the lifetime pension is often so small it's insulting. real life time pension example - a lifetime pension for hearing loss about $105 a month,, if he lives another 30 years he'll have received $37800. real life lump sum example - hearing loss lump sum $75000


I get what you're saying, but I think your math is bad.

The lump sum formulas will usually be overtaken (and well overtaken) within a person's life, particularly if they're in their 20s when they apply.

Even if it's for something like a 10% pension that may have a cash payout of $30,000, in the old system that may have been $100/mo, which only requires 300 months to to catch up, or 25 years.

Obviously a 25 year old putting in a claim is probably going to live longer than 25 more years.

However, the math that needs to be done is based on inflation, how much less is that money going to be worth in 25 years if he's still getting $100 payments. I'm not sure if it's indexed for inflation (?)

The problem we all witnessed first-hand in big bases like Petawawa that saw a lot of these was that some troops just went out and bought brand new cars, which are obviously a terrible investment compared to something like a down payment on a house which not only with increase in value but avoid interest on a mortgage.

But who is going to look at a limbless soldier and say "I'm sorry, you can't spend your monty how you want, because it will be worth less inthe long run". If that guy wants a sportscar, let him have one.

The question I'm curious about is whether anything from the past decade would be undone. For example, if someone was given the lump sum $30,000 10% disability option recently because they didn't have a choice, if we go back to monthly payments, is the government going to start paying them again when they would have caught up on their monthly payments in 25 years?

Foxer
08-24-2015, 02:10 PM
The lump sum formulas will usually be overtaken (and well overtaken) within a person's life, particularly if they're in their 20s when they apply.

Even if it's for something like a 10% pension that may have a cash payout of $30,000, in the old system that may have been $100/mo, which only requires 300 months to to catch up, or 25 years.

Unless that money is invested in one form or another and earns interest. It could be as simple as some form of bank product or it could be a life annuity guaranteed to pay out at a certain rate. Or something more 'risky' but with higher reward like real estate or the like.

I always assumed that was the point - that it gave you a choice where you could either spend it on something you felt was a better investment or just put it in a life annuity and be guaranteed an income anyway. Or do something like buy a home or whatever seemed best.

matty86suk
08-24-2015, 02:17 PM
I'm hoping the next government doesn't cancel our new ships, it's embarrassing enough that a Chilean navy supply ship has been integrated into our fleet so we can meet our nato obligations....maybe I'll see these new ships before retirement, not holding my breath.

RobertMcC
08-24-2015, 02:30 PM
I'd like to see an option. I figure the last thing you want to give a troopy that suffered physical and mental trauma is a lump sum and a kick out the door. At least in my opinion. But the stoker with bad knees and hearing loss sure, take the lump sum...case by case

What I got...Took it more as a insult. Only monthly pension I get is my service pension. I'm lucky i'm still in voc rehab and under lost wage benefits.

I can only see the liberals lying to get votes and not do what they promised. I mean they ruined our military before.

TJSpeller
08-24-2015, 02:40 PM
Erin O'toole took over from Fantino ( I knew Fantino would turn out to be a disaster - that man is probably senile). O'Toole is a good guy, a straightfoward Canadian. I met him at the Pickering Gun Show. He's tried like hell to reverse the damage, but the media sure had a field day with it.