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94sahara
06-18-2012, 11:51 AM
Long-gun registry includes hundreds of misclassified handguns
Patrick Cain, Global News : Monday, June 18, 2012 12:00 PM
Read it on Global News: Global News | Long-gun registry includes hundreds of misclassified handguns

The long gun registry, ordered destroyed by a bill passed in April,appears to contain hundreds of misclassified handguns, a Global News investigation shows. If the records are destroyed, owners of those handguns could face serious legal consequences despite having properly registered their weapons.

Searching one part of the long gun registry, Global News found 361 handguns and three automatic weapons, in nine provinces and the Northwest Territories, that are classified as if they were mainstream rifles or shotguns.

The 361 handguns include a Colt .45 registered in Halifax, a .38 Special on the island of Montreal, a .357 Magnum in Edmonton and a Luger in the Fraser Valley. In all cases the misidentified guns should be classified as “restricted” or “prohibited” but are instead incorrectly identified as “non-restricted.” (See the full list of misclassified handguns below.)

"This is another reason not to destroy the data,” said Opposition justice critic Françoise Boivin. “If the data that's destroyed includes restricted and prohibited weapons, that's a serious public safety risk. A rush to delete the data is going to have all sorts of unintended consequences. This just underscores how reckless the Conservative plan is."

But the government says the errors underscore how unreliable the registry was in the first place.

“The data in the wasteful and ineffective former long-gun registry is inaccurate and incomplete. It became more so over time. These problems you have identified show just how useless a tool it was for law-enforcement,” said Mike Mueller, a spokesman for public safety minister Vic Toews.

A redacted copy of the national firearms database, including the doomed long gun data, was released to Global News under access-to-information laws in May.


HOW THE SYSTEM WORKS

Until April, Canada’s firearm registration system tracked three types of firearms:

Non-restricted weapons are shotguns and rifles normally used by hunters and farmers. The database tracking these weapons, which legislation passed in April has ordered destroyed, is referred to as the “long-gun registry”.

Restricted weapons mostly covers handguns with barrels over a given length.

Prohibited weapons is a confusing term – a better one might be ‘strictly regulated.’ This category includes handguns with barrels under a given length and a small number of legally owned automatic weapons.

Restricted and prohibited weapons will continue to be registered. Owners of any type of firearm must still be licenced.


The requirement to register rifles and shotguns, introduced in the 1990s, led to many years of bitter controversy. Most of the misclassified weapons were registered early in the life of the registry, in the early 2000s.

“There was a significant cleanup of the records in the time after the RCMP took the registry over (in 2006),” OPP Supt. Chris Wyatt explained.

In April, legislation passed that removed the requirement to register most long guns, and ordered the destruction of the long gun registry. However, handguns and some rifles are still required to be registered. If the government goes ahead and destroys the long gun registry, as required by Bill C-19 then the erroneously included handgun records would also be deleted unless they are reclassified.

But outside of Quebec, while the long gun registry has not yet actually been deleted, police no longer have access to it.

Global News provided the RCMP with a list of the misclassified weapons on Friday.

The owners of the misclassified handguns may have done their paperwork correctly at some point in the past. However, with the registration data destroyed, they could face serious legal problems if they’re found in possession of an unregistered restricted weapon, Ottawa lawyer Solomon Friedman explains:

“It will now be an unregistered but restricted firearm. The default situation for that individual is that they are now committing a criminal offence. In this case the police could lay a charge, and you would have to argue that out in court. I think these owners are in jeopardy.”

In some circumstances, an offence of this kind can land the gun’s owner a mandatory minimum three-year prison sentence.

In addition to the handguns, the copy of the registry obtained shows three improperly categorized automatic weapons.

Two individuals, one in Scarborough and the other in Edmonton, own 1/3-scale .22-calibre replicas of a Gatling gun, a 19th-century machine gun fired by turning a hand crank. The weapons, made by Utah-based Furr Arms, can cost as much as US$18,000. They come with a 60-round magazine.

“The (weapon) is an automatic firearm and thus a prohibited firearm in Canada,” RCMP Sgt. Greg Cox confirmed in an e-mail. (Despite the terminology, prohibited weapons are not necessarily illegal, but they are very strictly regulated.)

A third person, in the Calgary area, owns a Lewis gun, a First-World War-era machine gun firing .303 rifle ammunition from a revolving drum. It should also be listed as a prohibited weapon.

The Quebec portion of the long gun registry has been ordered to be preserved by a court order, as federal and provincial lawyers argue in court about whether Quebec should be allowed to use the data as the basis of a provincial long gun registry. Seventy-eight of the misclassified handguns Global found are in Quebec.

The long gun registry outside Quebec has not yet actually been deleted, though police no longer have access to it.


Read it on Global News: Global News | Long-gun registry includes hundreds of misclassified handguns
http://www.globalnews.ca/interactive/120614handguns/

jwirecom109
06-18-2012, 11:55 AM
shows how effective and properly the information was handled in the first place.

But when it all boils down its the owners of the firearms that will take the heat for the government's mistake.

Hopefully they can get them registered with no issues, and if they didn't have a prohib license before they will be able to get one for their firearms.

I guess we will see how it boils down in the end.

chaoz2001
06-18-2012, 12:24 PM
Any owner of those weapons that are not classified correctly would still have their registration certificates. This is just a reminder to everyone to make sure their paperwork is correct.

Aedomon
06-18-2012, 01:29 PM
This is just a reminder to everyone to make sure their paperwork is correct.

Agreed, but speaking from experience, having them fix something on their end that was mislabeled in the system and on a registration certificate can be a timely and aggravating process. In example, I own a Mossberg bolt-action 20g shotgun, and filled the registration information out correctly...when my reg certificate finally arrived, this shotgun was labelled as a Hinge-Action. While it took about six months to get the information straightened out, I never did receive my updated certificate...for that matter, I never received one for the Norinco NP15 I purchased last year, either, after calling in 5 or 6 times and it being "re-issued".

jrcbecher
06-18-2012, 01:32 PM
Did I read this right I did it right they screw it up and I am the bad guy subject to penalty

Haywire1
06-18-2012, 03:28 PM
Pretty much it in a nutshell. Welcome to the nanny state.

blacksmithden
06-18-2012, 08:06 PM
Yes....the people who were responsible for the long gun registry didn't have a clue when it came to guns, and the whole thing is a salad in a blender. We all knew that. Now...how many long guns or sitting in the restricted/prohib list when they should be non-restricted....oh..they conveniently left that information out, didn't they. Drill holes in the hard drives containing the records and sell the computers !

hillbillyr
06-18-2012, 08:20 PM
Yes....the people who were responsible for the long gun registry didn't have a clue when it came to guns, and the whole thing is a salad in a blender. We all knew that. Now...how many long guns or sitting in the restricted/prohib list when they should be non-restricted....oh..they conveniently left that information out, didn't they. Drill holes in the hard drives containing the records and sell the computers !

Burn it all

davy crockett
06-18-2012, 09:03 PM
Who gives a **** if a firearm is registered or not? These people are fools.

Is the owner licensed (or better yet, skip the license, just not prohibited from possessing due to criminal history)? If so take your registration and stuff it. Period.

I'm with hillbillyr, burn it all.

RobSmith
06-18-2012, 09:05 PM
A gun is a gun is a gun.


Who gives a **** if a firearm is registered or not? These people are fools.

Is the owner licensed (or better yet, skip the license, just not prohibited from possessing due to criminal history)? If so take your registration and stuff it. Period.

I'm with hillbillyr, burn it all.

blacksmithden
06-18-2012, 10:53 PM
Who gives a **** if a firearm is registered or not? These people are fools.

Is the owner licensed (or better yet, skip the license, just not prohibited from possessing due to criminal history)? If so take your registration and stuff it. Period.

I'm with hillbillyr, burn it all.

That sums it up pretty well.

C Broad Arrow
06-19-2012, 05:23 AM
A gun is a gun is a gun.



Burn it all

The whole licensing and classification scheme is a farce. It was designed to end gun ownership, on that we can all agree. A gun is a gun is a gun and the only way to end this nonsense, the double speak from those like Blair and the other half-wits that are running the assylm, is to burn is all down.

How many useless affirmative action types are employed by the CFC? If there is one it is too many. Fire them all. Save taxpayer dollars and allow hard working law abiding Canadians the ability to begin to save for their golden years.

If the omnibus crime bill is the master piece it is touted to be then lets get smart about gun control and get rid of all licensing and registration - including handguns - and let the system take care of the offenders.

I am sick and tired of the talking heads telling me what is best for my family. Most these guys - politicians, chiefs of police, security experts- do not have a friggin clue.

They never worked a day in their lives, created anything of value, worked the land, or grew a crop let alone a set of balls...but they have developed a knack for stealing money out of my pocket and yours and funding these ridiculous programs.

The so-called professor at Ry Hi (Ryerson use to be called Ry Hi as in Ryerson Highschool ... and for good reason 30 years ago because their methodologies in reseach and academic standards were lacking). But if you are a whiney feminist, suddenly you are the poster child for Rock and McLellan and the tax-payer money just pours in. Did they earn it? No... they stole it. Did they do anything worthwhile with it? No. The fact that we are scrapping a $2billion project tells you the answer.

Let's get rid of the whole gd gun control system. That is what was promised by the CPC in the run up to a majority government starting back in 2004.

Let's finish the job and move on to more important issues. Why should I have to register something that I am legally able to own just because some stuffed suit thinks they can make a career out of it. There is no statistical evidence that registration has done anything to fight or reduce crime. The Chiefs of Police could not even fabricate evidence to back their position, and that should tell you something given the kind of crap produced at trial that have sent innocent men to jail. In addtion, why should I be able to own one type of property and you cannot just because I bought it before a certain date?

In the pre 1934 registry days all you had to do was know a chief or cop, be a white of British decent and you could get a "Form 76", which would let you carry a handgun or possess anything you like. In those days coal companies and the CPR could own machine guns - BARS - as a tool for settling labour disputes. The 1934 handgun registry came about primarily because the powers that be - otherwise known as the "Family Compact" in Ontario and Quebec did not want communists starting a revolution and they believed that gun control was the way to ensure that the only ones that were in control and had guns were the ruling class of the day.

All gun control is a racist, and prejudicial policy because it is arbitrary. We should be writing and meeting with our MP's as frequently now as we were before C19 so that the pressure is kept up and that they know they have to act or risk losing support in the next election...one that will see the NDP take a slice of Ontario away from them if the Liberals fail to regenerate themselves.

Time for those who represent us in Parliament and in our lobby groups to man up, grow a pair of balls and get the job done.

Prairie Dog
06-19-2012, 08:34 AM
How did Global obtain this information?

RobSmith
06-19-2012, 08:38 AM
Probably lifted out of that Ottawa newspaper's website the info was posted on some years ago.


How did Global obtain this information?

52TulaSKS
06-19-2012, 08:55 AM
How did Global obtain this information?

From the story: "A redacted copy of the national firearms database, including the doomed long gun data, was released to Global News under access-to-information laws in May."

harbl_the_cat
06-19-2012, 01:42 PM
My friend and I are both software engineers and we went through the list.

The data is SO sloppy, I don't know how you could possibly build any kind of system that could make use of that data without using a LOT of monstrous hacks. This is the kind of work you'd expect from a high school student learning how to program, not a multi-billion dollar enterprise application. Then again, what would you expect from a government contract?

RobSmith
06-19-2012, 01:53 PM
It was designed that way. The whole point of it all was to give jobs to people. A 15 year old kid could have designed safeguards to prevent misclassification in a couple of hours, but that wasn't the idea. The overall idea was to keep a couple hundred of the good people in Miramichi employed <somehow> once fishing went the way of the Dodo bird in the area. The thing is by now most then likely you have 2nd generation employees for whom working the CFC is all they know.


My friend and I are both software engineers and we went through the list.

The data is SO sloppy, I don't know how you could possibly build any kind of system that could make use of that data without using a LOT of monstrous hacks. This is the kind of work you'd expect from a high school student learning how to program, not a multi-billion dollar enterprise application. Then again, what would you expect from a government contract?

harbl_the_cat
06-19-2012, 02:02 PM
It was designed that way. The whole point of it all was to give jobs to people. A 15 year old kid could have designed safeguards to prevent misclassification in a couple of hours, but that wasn't the idea. The overall idea was to keep a couple hundred of the good people in Miramichi employed <somehow> once fishing went the way of the Dodo bird in the area. The thing is by now most then likely you have 2nd generation employees for whom working the CFC is all they know.

I've always heard about how the gun registry data is not admissible in court. I can see why.

If this data was commingled with the current data in the restricted registry (which I can all but guarantee you, it is), I can guarantee you that data is also inadmissible in court, or any defence lawyer who doesn't attack it's credibility is an idiot.

I have my professional engineering designation.

I should log a complaint with the national engineering association that the gun registry is a public safety hazard, because a software system with data this corrupt is a blatant violation of engineering principals and actually does present a risk to public safety. That's my professional opinion.

RobSmith
06-19-2012, 02:09 PM
Well technically it <was> designed and implemented by CGI ... The current version anyway. A "reputable" firm...


I've always heard about how the gun registry data is not admissible in court. I can see why.

If this data was commingled with the current data in the restricted registry (which I can all but guarantee you, it is), I can guarantee you that data is also inadmissible in court, or any defence lawyer who doesn't attack it's credibility is an idiot.

I have my professional engineering designation.

I should log a complaint with the national engineering association that the gun registry is a public safety hazard, because a software system with data this corrupt is a blatant violation of engineering principals and actually does present a risk to public safety. That's my professional opinion.

harbl_the_cat
06-19-2012, 02:10 PM
Man... this is hilarious...

Ever hear of a SMITCH & WESSON 13-Mar chambered in S&W 357 MAGNUM?

How about a UNKNOWN PISTAL? I'm sure the 2 of those are absolute killing machines.

Perhaps a SMITH WESSON UNKNOWN in CALIBRE?

Good lesson here folks.

If there is EVER another attempt to make a registry, put as many typo's and spelling mistakes in your application forms as possible... of course, none of us will have any guns to register at that point, right?

harbl_the_cat
06-19-2012, 02:11 PM
Well technically it <was> designed and implemented by CGI ... The current version anyway. A "reputable" firm...

I've worked with CGI in the past - I wasn't impressed.

RobSmith
06-19-2012, 02:14 PM
They run the computer system where I work. Let's just say it ain't exactly reliable, on a good day .... ;)


I've worked with CGI in the past - I wasn't impressed.

harbl_the_cat
06-19-2012, 02:16 PM
They run the computer system where I work. Let's just say it ain't exactly reliable, on a good day .... ;)

CGI has a LOT of government contracts, especially with the military.

I'm sure there's a very cozy relationship between the Ottawa ole' boys club and senior management there.

94sahara
06-19-2012, 02:17 PM
Don't forget about all the soldering guns and staple guns that people have registered, I'm guessing they're misclassified too.


Cdn-Firearms Digest Monday, April 8 2002 Volume 04 : Number 671
Subject: Column: Ottawa hot under collar over soldering gun

PUBLICATION: Windsor Star
DATE: 2002.04.04
EDITION: Final
SECTION: EDITORIAL
PAGE: A6
COLUMN: LORNE GUNTER
BYLINE: Lorne Gunter
SOURCE: Edmonton Journal
ILLUSTRATION: LORNE GUNTER
NOTE: EDITOR'S NOTE: Lorne Gunter is an Edmonton Journal columnist. He appears Thursdays.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ottawa hot under collar over soldering gun
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Stop, I've got a soldering gun and I'm not afraid to use it!

To be honest, I don't own a soldering gun. If I did, as with most power tools, I wouldn't have a clue what to do with it.

But Brian Buckley has a soldering gun. I imagine he's pretty handy with it, too.

Buckley owns an auto body shop in Oak Lake, Man., a community of about 500 along the TransCanada highway between Virden and Brandon.

Buckley is also a recreational gun owner opposed to Ottawa's firearms registry.

He has a valid licence to possess firearms. As required by the Firearms Act, more than a year ago he went to all the trouble and expense of registering himself as an owner of firearms.

He filled out the complicated and intrusive licensing forms, submitted his life to scrutiny by federal bureaucrats and police and did so within the deadline stipulated in the law.

He didn't want to, but he complied anyway with the legal requirement that all Canadians who wish to own firearms obtain a possession licence from Ottawa.

In other words, he put himself through all the hoops imposed by the Canadian Firearms Program to certify that he is fit to own guns.

But when around Christmas, Buckley received in the mail the forms for registering his guns (gun owners had until the end of 2000 to register themselves and to the end of this year to register their guns), he decided to have a bit of fun with the federal Liberals and their gun registry.

He decided to see whether he could register his Black & Decker heat gun and his Weller soldering gun, neither of which is obviously a firearm.

Heck, I own neither power tools nor firearms and even I know a soldering gun isn't a firearm.

I guess if a robber had a long enough extension cord, he could take his soldering gun to a convenience store and threaten to give the clerk a nasty burn if he/she didn't fork over the contents of the till. Or perhaps a robber could plug one in at a bank and then menacingly warn the tellers, "Hey, when this baby warms up in about 15 or 20 minutes, I'm gonna hold this place up like you won't believe!"

Buckley's registration certificate is hilarious. On the line that reads "Make:" it declares "Black & Decker/Weller."

"Type: HEATGUN/SOLDERING GUN."

"Action: 110 VOLT AC."

It's very clear that human beings are not processing registration applications.

Processed by computer

The forms are, apparently, being received and scanned into a computer. If they contain information on specific guns the computer has been programmed to reject, one presumes the application is denied. (But we can only presume that, the whole system is such a mess, it's entirely possible prohibited weapons are making it past this system, too.)

About a year ago, senior officers inside the RCMP admitted to Alliance MP Garry <Breitkreuz> that the Mounties had been ordered by the Department of Justice Canada to stop verifying the information on registration forms and just push through whatever came in. Buckley's soldering-gun registration proves that is exactly what's happening.

If the registry cannot even kick back an application to register hardware, how could it possibly detect a fraudulent application to register a machine gun as a hunting rifle or a short-barrelled, concealed pistol as a legal handgun?

The answer is, it can't. The registration of guns is a sham. It is based entirely on the honour system. Whatever you tell it you own, that is what it registers. The only rejections are likely of applications that contain honest mistakes, not deliberate misinformation.

Criminals aren't going to register -- honourably -- their sawed-off shotguns and machine pistols, their oversized magazines and the Saturday Night Specials they buy from smugglers.

In just the last year, the central registry has lost track of nearly 40,000 licensed owners, issued duplicate licences to at least 1,000 more, printed out hundreds of licences with the wrong names or photos on them and sent 57 registration certificates to one owner for the 16 guns in his possession -- and those are just the cases known to <Breitkreuz>.

Buckley's act of insolence has made a mockery of the Canadian Firearms Program and of Justice Canada and they are not amused.

While the Criminal Code makes it an offence to use false information to register a gun, that provision was designed to keep criminals from lying to obtain a licence and to prevent prohibited weapons from remaining in circulation. Yet, Justice Canada has asked the RCMP to see whether Buckley can be charged.

Nothing Buckley claimed on his application was false. He did not mislead. The fault is entirely with the registry's slapdash methods.

But having been shown to have no clothes, the emperor is now enraged. Apparently, it is as great an offence to ridicule the federal government as it is to commit a heist with a gun.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To see a copy of the registration certificate, please go here (http://www.garrybreitkreuz.com/publications/SolderingGunRegistrationCertificate.pdf).

http://www.rfcsask.ca/cfd04674.html#Solderingiron

jwirecom109
06-20-2012, 08:15 AM
A Global News investigation has found dozens more misclassified firearms which might be deleted with the long gun registry.

Yesterday, Global News reported finding 361 handguns and three automatic weapons classified as if they were mainstream rifles or shotguns, which, all other things being equal, means that their data will be deleted.

Since that story appeared, we have found more than 120 weapons in the firearms registry which aren't classified at all. They include 33 handguns - prohibited or restricted weapons, depending on barrel length - and 12 automatic weapons, which may or may not have been converted to semi-automatic fire.

"(Under Bill C-19) If there is a record relating to a firearm that is not prohibited or restricted, it needs to be destroyed," Ottawa lawyer Solomon Friedman explains. "I think what this highlights more than anything is the level of inaccuracy in the registry in the first place: that you can have a Glock there in the data that has no class."

However, after being provided with the erroneous data, The RCMP now says it will investigate and correct any errors before deleting the long gun data base.

"The records pointed out by Global News had been flagged for follow up. Such records would not be destroyed if, after verification, they turn out to actually be restricted or prohibited firearms," said Greg Cox, a media relations officer with the force. This is in addition to an on-going process to clean up the registry prior to deletion.

"The deletion of this data is a complex process, which includes sorting records of restricted and prohibited firearms from those of non-restricted firearms, so that the restricted and prohibited records are not destroyed. In some cases, owners of restricted and prohibited firearms have erroneously registered them as non-restricted. The CFP has ongoing data quality control procedures to find and flag these errors by firearm owners, and correct them."

Read it on Global News: Global News | Misclassified weapons total passes 400


The new batch of firearms include two home-made Sten guns - simply designed British sub-machine guns produced in large numbers during the Second World War - 15 revolvers and 18 semi-automatic handguns. There is also an Austrian-made sub-machine gun described as 'experimental'.

Automatic weapons and converted automatic weapons are both classed as prohibited weapons. (Legally, firearms in Canada must be categorized as non-restricted, restricted or prohibited. Bill C-19, possed into law in April, requires officials to delete information on firearms which are not classified as restricted or prohibited. These ‘non-restricted’ categorized weapons are form what is typically referred to as the long gun registry.)

The new discoveries bring the total of restricted and prohibited weapons in line to be erroneously deleted with the long gun registry to 407.

Part of the root of the problem lay in the design of the registry, argues John Evers of the Canadian Shooting Sports Association:

"They wrote software which made it possible to make a simple mouse-click error. The system allowed you to register a handgun as non-restricted. Any good software engineer would have made sure that can't happen - that once you select 'handgun' you can't select 'non-restricted,' but the system let them do it."

"We were not all that co-operative,” Evers says of some gun owners’ response to the registry process. “I know several people who put down everything as unknown - unknown make, unknown serial number, because the law said that if you made an error, you were liable for those errors. So to be safe, they said they didn't know. A lot of my guns are 'unknown make/unknown model' as a protest against what they are trying to do."

A redacted copy of the national firearms database, including the doomed long gun data, was released to Global News under access-to-information laws in May.

"These facts should give the government of so called 'law and order' serious reasons to review those facts very carefully before destroying all data from the long gun registry," said Opposition justice critic Françoise Boivin. "First to protect all good law abiding Canadian citizens who registered their guns and second in the name of basic public security."

Public Safety Minister Vic Toews said the new findings are another reason the registry needed to be scrapped.

"This is further proof that the long-gun registry’s data is inaccurate and that the registry itself is wasteful and ineffective," said Toews
"We will ensure that law-abiding firearms owners do not pay for any administrative mistakes committed by Firearms Centre bureaucracy."



The long gun registry outside Quebec has not yet actually been deleted, though police no longer have access to it.

Read it on Global News: Global News | Misclassified weapons total passes 400


Hopefully they see that this is a reason to get rid of all the registry, included restricted and prohib

harbl_the_cat
06-20-2012, 09:18 AM
Hopefully they see that this is a reason to get rid of all the registry, included restricted and prohib

I'm glad someone pointed it out that what "any good software engineer" would do.

What's the link to that article, jwire?

CSC
06-20-2012, 07:36 PM
Well first of all, just because you have a registration certificate saying your gun is non restricted does not mean you are off the hook when the police find it and determine it is in fact prohibited. Secondly most misregistered guns were registered by the owner so the police could also ad uttering a false statement to the charges. And finally if the registry is so useful why where these obviously wrong entries allowed to sit untouched for more than a decade? Seems more like an argument to get rid of the registry rather than keep it.

shredder
06-24-2012, 03:21 PM
Another government phuckup.

Why am I not surprised?:smash:

I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but I can't help but wonder if this is some last-ditch attempt to save the LGR outside Quebec. I suppose it's possible that LGR proponents will use these mis-classifications in a court case to save the LGR by saying "hey, we need the LGR data or else ALL the mis-classified firearms data will be lost". I doubt that would save it, but the anti's are grasping at straws.

silver
06-24-2012, 07:13 PM
It is stupid, and again another waste of more taxpayers money, my opinion on it is this, All my paper work is in order, all my certificates say what they are supposed to restricted or non restricted, so if they messed up and lost my information or filed it in there system wrong,
How the hell should I be held responsable for there screw up when i have no idea if they did or did not screw up my information?... I am waiting for the other shoe to drop , because they simply will have no idea who has what and what they lost and we could very well see them say, Oh hey fellow canadians we are realy sorry but it seems we have made an error (or 50 or so) and we have lost some important data so we are issuing a Re-Regestry and all restricted and prohib firearms must be Re-Regesterd by (unknowen) date.
And then threten us wil fines and confiscation and jail time if we dont comply.
Im sorry but the whole thing has been a mis managed sham from the start and a huge money sucking black hole and in all honesty the whole thing should be flushed.

Jim
07-02-2012, 08:59 AM
If you plan to burn, please throw the rest of the Liberals and Wendy in to. Oh yeah and don't foreget Mul-careless who plans to bring it back.