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View Full Version : Canadians divided on how to help refugees - poll



soulchaser
09-04-2015, 02:35 PM
Fifty-four per cent of respondents said the government should take in more refugees, 63 per cent said individuals and community groups should sponsor more refugees, and 76 per cent said Canada should send professionals, such as doctors or soldiers, to help the migrants. Twenty-three per cent said the country should do nothing.

“I think what you see is a country that’s very divided on this issue more than public outcry may have anticipated,” said Shachi Kurl, senior vice-president of the Angus Reid Institute. While most Canadians agree on the need to do something, she said, there is no consensus about what specifically should be done.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/canadians-support-to-aid-refugees-in-europe-divided-along-partisan-lines/article26226231/

soulchaser
09-04-2015, 02:37 PM
Since the MSM are trying their damndest to make this an election issue i put it in the election forum.

Doug_M
09-04-2015, 02:37 PM
Link?

Edit: thanks

RobertMcC
09-04-2015, 02:38 PM
Help the people in our country first.

Swampdonkey
09-04-2015, 05:53 PM
Help the people in our country first.

And let them fix their own countries rather than flee and leech off ours.

Foxer
09-04-2015, 06:07 PM
And let them fix their own countries rather than flee and leech off ours.

Well in fairness they are fleeing a war. ANd specifically one where the other side is lopping the heads off of non believers and such. Would we have said the same to the jews in ww2? This isn't a case where they're just deciding they don't LIKE it there.

I think this is the kind of situation we have to step in a little. I'm sure there's lots of guys out there who could happily watch a man beat a woman near to death on the street and do nothing, but I'm just not one of those guys and i suspect most here aren't either if it came to it.

At the same time i think that means we send help - i don't think that bringing 25 thousand people whom we'll never keep track of over here right now is necessarily the best idea.

Swampdonkey
09-04-2015, 06:14 PM
We kind of did say that to the Jews in the relevant time, under a Liberal gov't.

Not only that, but we're kind of enablers. Known as being "easy", if you will.

Zinilin
09-04-2015, 06:36 PM
It might help the people in these areas if we carpet the place with 9mm Glocks, mags and ammo. Just add a plastic streamer and shovel them out the back of a C5 Galaxy.
Drop them everywhere, no plan, no organization, no arrangements, just Glocks from God. ("It's raining Glocks and mags")

Glock can produce about 80,000/week max. In 12 weeks there could be a million handguns in the area, in a year there would be 4 million.


This isn't a case where they're just deciding they don't LIKE it there.

It is a case where they are powerless because of the gun control measures that disarmed them and prepared them for victimization.

A Glock in every pot.

Oh, and on the Turkish boarder: "Here take this AR-15, here's 500 rounds, go back and fight for your home".

Edenchef
09-04-2015, 06:46 PM
Ok, ISIS is chasing these people out of their homeland, making them refugees; how about we just go make ISIS go away, no more refugee problem. Simple math, we either deal with ISIS now or have a much tougher time dealing with them later; but absolutely, we will have to deal with them at sometime.

Forbes/Hutton
09-04-2015, 06:58 PM
Ok, ISIS is chasing these people out of their homeland, making them refugees; how about we just go make ISIS go away, no more refugee problem. Simple math, we either deal with ISIS now or have a much tougher time dealing with them later; but absolutely, we will have to deal with them at sometime.

Truth.

Zinilin
09-04-2015, 07:01 PM
Ok, ISIS is chasing these people out of their homeland, making them refugees; how about we just go make ISIS go away, no more refugee problem. Simple math, we either deal with ISIS now or have a much tougher time dealing with them later; but absolutely, we will have to deal with them at sometime.

Wiping out ISIS is going to take the same resolve and strategy that was used by the Sri Lankans when they wiped out the Tamil Tigers.
1. Pick a spot, any spot, and call that the front.
2. As you move away from that spot search everyone and every place for firearms.
3. Kill anyone that resists in any way.
4. Leave no un-trusted firearms behind you.
5. Maintain an unbroken line.
6. Continue until you reach the sea.

It took the Sri Lankan two years from when they finally said 'we are going to wipe them out', until they were wiped out. In the end there were no arrests and no trials, they just killed them all. They shot the human shields until the human shields stopped working and fled or attacked their captors.
At the end they shot the Tamil Tiger leader in the forehead at point blank range, no surrender would be accepted. No apology to the world.

They ignored the UN and they ignored the media. They ignored the protest on the Gardner Expressway and on Parliament Hill.

They ended a 30 year terrorist occupation, and all the while the UN and the media pleaded them to have a cease-fire, make peace or negotiate. They didn't.
What government today has that type of resolve?

Forbes/Hutton
09-04-2015, 07:22 PM
Wiping out ISIS is going to take the same resolve and strategy that was used by the Sri Lankans when they wiped out the Tamil Tigers.
1. Pick a spot, any spot, and call that the front.
2. As you move away from that spot search everyone and every place for firearms.
3. Kill anyone that resists in any way.
4. Leave no un-trusted firearms behind you.
5. Maintain an unbroken line.
6. Continue until you reach the sea.

It took the Sri Lankan two years from when they finally said 'we are going to wipe them out', until they were wiped out. In the end there were no arrests and no trials, they just killed them all. They shot the human shields until the human shields stopped working and fled or attacked their captors.
At the end they shot the Tamil Tiger leader in the forehead at point blank range, no surrender would be accepted. No apology to the world.

They ignored the UN and they ignored the media. They ignored the protest on the Gardner Expressway and on Parliament Hill.

They ended a 30 year terrorist occupation, and all the while the UN and the media pleaded them to have a cease-fire, make peace or negotiate. They didn't.
What government today has that type of resolve?

ISIS are such fanatics it's easier than that.
1. Pick a spot.
2. Raise a 100 foot tall crucifix and a 100 foot tall star of David.
3. Wait in place and take on all comers.
4. Repeat step 3.
5. When things taper off put up a 100 foot billboard with a picture of mohammed riding a pig. Return to step 3.

Foxer
09-04-2015, 07:25 PM
It is a case where they are powerless because of the gun control measures that disarmed them and prepared them for victimization.Guns without training are useless. Giving them glocks would do nothing.

Taking a few thousand rifles over there and providing a little security while we train 'em up and help them organize might do a little good :) And we are doing that right now more or less. Perhaps a little more is in order. As to the refugees i doubt we can ask 10 year olds to go into battle, so someone's going to have to provide for their needs till they could go home. That's the kind of thing we can do.

Zinilin
09-04-2015, 07:30 PM
Guns without training are useless. Giving them glocks would do nothing.
You are wrong. There are multiple instances where untrained children have used simple firearms to kill attackers.

I'm not taking about a raising an army. I'm talking about people not being beaten on the street or dragged out of their house without first killing one or more of their attackers.

edit: Make the terrorist not feel safe on the street. Make the people uncontrollable.

Foxer
09-04-2015, 07:41 PM
You are wrong. There are multiple instances where untrained children have used simple firearms to kill attackers.
I am entirely right. There are a lot MORE instances where children have been killed by professionally trained soldiers :) The fact that once in a while a kid might get lucky does not mean they are a suitable force to pit against a well trained and equipped army. If you're going to try to argue that an untrained 10 year old is a match for a trained 25 year old fighter... I think you might want to give that a bit of thought first. :) And don't try to change the subject.


I'm not taking about a raising an army. Well then you're not talking seriously and there's really no point. What they're facing is an army. A large, funded and fairly well trained army with some pretty sophisticated gear. So get real. Kids aren't going to stand up to that for long. Untrained adults aren't going to stand up to that for long. Which is why these people are refugees in the first place.

This isn't 'terrorism' - this is a well trained experienced army that's organized and moving into these people's homes and slaughtering people by the tens of thousands.

Zinilin
09-04-2015, 07:44 PM
Current estimates place the number of ISIS fighters between 20,000 and 200,000. Most estimates are near 30,000. The UN estimates there are 3,000,000 (Three Million) refugees from the fighting.

If 10% of the refugees each killed one terrorist, it would be over.
If 1% of the people not running away each killed one terrorist, it would be over.

If the people had not been disarmed it would never have happened.

Not an army, just lean out the window, look over the wall, or under the napkin when serving tea.

Zinilin
09-04-2015, 07:50 PM
Kids aren't going to stand up to that for long.
No, they will not. Many will die. Freedom is not free. It is not about the individual.

If they want their country free of terror, give them the means to make a difference.
There are far more good than bad people over there, what is needed is good guys with guns. Any guns.

soulchaser
09-04-2015, 08:19 PM
Ok, ISIS is chasing these people out of their homeland, making them refugees; how about we just go make ISIS go away, no more refugee problem. Simple math, we either deal with ISIS now or have a much tougher time dealing with them later; but absolutely, we will have to deal with them at sometime.

ISIS AND Assad.

Foxer
09-04-2015, 09:59 PM
No, they will not. Many will die. Freedom is not free. It is not about the individual.

If they want their country free of terror, give them the means to make a difference.
There are far more good than bad people over there, what is needed is good guys with guns. Any guns.

Alright - so arm the 10 year olds and send 'em in without training in the name of freedom. I tell you what, we'll call that plan b :)

Zinilin
09-04-2015, 10:30 PM
Alright - so arm the 10 year olds and send 'em in without training in the name of freedom. I tell you what, we'll call that plan b :)

The problem with defeatist is that they pervert a situation with so much hypothetical negative exaggeration as to convince themselves that the only possible outcome is complete failure.

I do expect that there are a few people in the area that are not 10 years old.
Arming the people will improve the situation on the ground.

Foxer
09-04-2015, 10:34 PM
The problem with defeatist is that they pervert a situation with so much hypothetical negative exaggeration as to convince themselves that the only possible outcome is complete failure.

I do expect that there are a few people in the area that are not 10 years old.
Arming the people will improve the situation on the ground.
The problem with delusionalists is they imagine a scenario that couldn't possibly exist in any meaningful fashion and then present it as a plausible action plan. And your numbers specifically included not only people who are 10 and younger, but likely people who are 70 or older. Winners make real plans based on the real world and then execute them.

My proposal was a lot more real. Provide protection and sustenance for those unable to fight, provide training for those who are, provide defense until they can get their act together. Which is what the basic plan now is, we might just need to step it up a little.

Zinilin
09-04-2015, 11:09 PM
My proposal was a lot more real

The United Nations agrees with you, so you must be right.
http://www.sunnytripreports.com/new_york/photos/unitednations_gun.jpg
Arming the population is not a solution to tyranny.

Foxer
09-04-2015, 11:21 PM
The United Nations agrees with you, so you must be right.
http://www.sunnytripreports.com/new_york/photos/unitednations_gun.jpg
Arming the population is not a solution to tyranny.

Well there you go. That makes sense. :run:

Steveo9mm
09-05-2015, 01:16 AM
this world is hopeless. nobody is going to do a thing. i bet 5 years from now they will still be lobbing heads off. nothings changed since 911 but just spread further and gotten more ruthless. i want off this planet

http://i.imgur.com/QDAZDrI.jpg

soulchaser
09-05-2015, 12:12 PM
Here's a little fact you won't hear or read in the majority of the MSM:

over the last 35 years, Conservative governments have admitted more refugees than Liberal governments 511,206 to 442,933.

SteelCap
09-06-2015, 07:30 AM
Is it possible ISIS has planted its own within the refugees?

soulchaser
09-06-2015, 09:22 AM
Is it possible ISIS has planted its own within the refugees?

I would say it's not only possible but a guarantee.

That is why Trudeau and Mulcairs plan to just open the floodgates to 25,000 refugees to Canada is so dangerous.

Rory McCanuck
09-06-2015, 10:25 AM
A friend in Britain said that Cameron had come up with a good plan, on the hush hush.
First came out and said "No Refugees", but caved to public pressure and will now accept them.
The part that hasn't been trumpeted, is that these people will be from the refugee camps, mostly single-parent families, and will only be admitted after they have been checked out and proven to not be ISIS plants, extremists, or terrorists-in-waiting.
Seems like a sound plan to me.

TJSpeller
09-06-2015, 11:19 AM
I would say it's not only possible but a guarantee.

That is why Trudeau and Mulcairs plan to just open the floodgates to 25,000 refugees to Canada is so dangerous.

http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2015/09/01/islamic-state-terrorists-caught-crossing-into-europe-posing-as-refugees/

Five men have been arrested as they attempted to cross the Bulgarian-Macedonian border with decapitation videos and Islamic State propaganda on their phones. The terrorist suspects had been posing as refugees

And of course there is this:

http://quebec.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/09/05/des-autocollants-montrant-letat-islamique-a-repentigny--la-police-enquete_n_8093912.html?ncid=tweetlnkcahpmg00000011

"Quebec is Allah's territory"

If we must accept refugees, they should be:
-Yazidi
-Mandean
-Christian

And families. No single young men. None.

wolver
09-06-2015, 03:50 PM
Bring one, bring all. Canada's a huge country with unlimited resources. Natural and financial. Let's share.

IJ22
09-06-2015, 04:16 PM
Bring one, bring all. Canada's a huge country with unlimited resources. Natural and financial. Let's share.

The trouble is these migrants are a mix of invaders and refugees. How do we differentiate between those fleeing war, and those intent on bringing it? Until we can do that, lock the door.

Here are some of the 10 year olds who "washed up on the beach" in Greece:


https://youtu.be/FULPGw3maFs

Here's a real pick of the litter as well. Hey welcome to our country dude, what can we do for you to help better prepare you to slice our throats? Free housing? Medical care? Education? You got it! Just kill me last, ok?


https://youtu.be/7GEaaxtTQ_4

You sure about that come one come all sentiment? :)

wolver
09-06-2015, 04:31 PM
The trouble is these migrants are a mix of invaders and refugees. How do we differentiate between those fleeing war, and those intent on bringing it? Until we can do that, lock the door.
You sure about that come one come all sentiment? :)

Why should we start worrying about that now. That's what todays gov't brings in. Used to be hard working immigrants. Now all we seem to get are refugees. BTW :rolleyes:

TJSpeller
09-06-2015, 04:32 PM
If you have a bowl full of candy, and 5% are poison, do you grab a handful and pop them in your mouth?

wolver
09-06-2015, 04:36 PM
If you have a bowl full of candy, and 5% are poison, do you grab a handful and pop them in your mouth?

Of course not! Just 85% of them.