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Lee Enfield
09-06-2015, 02:18 PM
Well we took the 858 to the range today, it has been too long since we warmed the barrel thanks to the stupidity of the rcmp.

It performed very well, and seemed happy to be out of the safe for a change.

Hope all on here have got theirs back from "Canmore" or the bottom of the lake and given them the range day they deserve.

Doug_M
09-06-2015, 02:55 PM
What no pics! :)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Gaidheal
09-06-2015, 02:58 PM
That's awesome.

Hope the same happens for all the rest of us with toys we are no longer allowed to use...

RangeBob
09-06-2015, 03:17 PM
I thought the CZ858's could always be taken to the range, at least since the latest amnesty, although perhaps not in Quebec.

Foxer
09-06-2015, 03:20 PM
I thought the CZ858's could always be taken to the range, at least since the latest amnesty, although perhaps not in Quebec.

Can't transport a prohib.

wolver
09-06-2015, 03:41 PM
Can't transport a prohib.

or shoot a prohib. rifle at most ranges.

RangeBob
09-06-2015, 03:42 PM
Can't transport a prohib.

The last amnesty specifically said you could transport the CZ858s to the range. (no permission to use them elsewhere such as hunting or crown land target shooting, and you had to store them as prohib, but you could transport them to a CFO approved range).

This one


Vol. 148, No. 17 — August 13, 2014



Registration

SOR/2014-182 July 23, 2014

CRIMINAL CODE

Order Amending the Order Declaring an Amnesty Period (2014)

P.C. 2014-881 July 22, 2014

His Excellency the Governor General in Council, on the recommendation of the Minister of Justice, pursuant to subsection 117.14(1) (see footnote a) of the Criminal Code (see footnote b), makes the annexed Order Amending the Order Declaring an Amnesty Period (2014).

ORDER AMENDING THE ORDER DECLARING AN AMNESTY PERIOD (2014)

AMENDMENT

1. Subsection 2(2) of the Order Declaring an Amnesty Period (2014) (see footnote 1) is amended by adding the following after paragraph (d):
(e) use the firearm in target practice or at a target shooting competition, under the auspices of a shooting club or shooting range that is approved under section 29 of the Firearms Act, and, for that purpose, transport the firearm in accordance with, (i) in the case of a firearm referred to in any of paragraphs 1(a), (b), (e), (h) and (k) to (o), the requirements set out in section 10 of the Storage, Display, Transportation and Handling of Firearms by Individuals Regulations or section 11 of the Storage, Display and Transportation of Firearms and Other Weapons by Businesses Regulations, as applicable, or
(ii) in the case of a firearm referred to in any of paragraphs 1(c), (d), (f), (g), (i) and (j), the requirements set out in section 11 of the Storage, Display, Transportation and Handling of Firearms by Individuals Regulations or section 12 of the Storage, Display and Transportation of Firearms and Other Weapons by Businesses Regulations, as applicable.


COMING INTO FORCE

2. This Order comes into force on the day on which it is registered.

REGULATORY IMPACT ANALYSIS STATEMENT

(This statement is not part of the Order.)

Issues

On February 26, 2014, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) determined the Ceská Zbrojovka 858 Tactical 2 and 4 rifles (the CZ858) and the Swiss Arms Classic Green rifles and its variants (the Swiss Arms), previously imported and sold in Canada as non-restricted and restricted firearms, are prohibited firearms pursuant to subsection 84(1) of the Criminal Code.

On March 13, 2014, an Order in Council (see footnote 2) (the Previous Order) was made to declare an amnesty period until March 14, 2016, to permit persons to do certain activities that otherwise would be an offence under the Criminal Code. The Previous Order permits the person to continue to possess, but not use, the affected firearms and be protected from criminal liability for being in unlawful possession of a prohibited firearm. The Previous Order also permits the person to deliver the firearm to a peace officer, firearms officer or chief firearms officer, to sell or give it to a business or museum authorized to possess prohibited firearms, and to transport the firearm for these purposes.

The activities specified in the Previous Order did not include use for target shooting at approved ranges and transportation for that purpose.

Background

There are three categories of firearms: non-restricted (ordinary hunting rifles and shot guns), restricted (most handguns and certain long guns) and prohibited (certain handguns, full and converted automatics and other firearms).

Part III of the Criminal Code (see footnote 3) (the Code) and the Regulations Prescribing Certain Firearms and other Weapons, Components and Parts of Weapons, Accessories, Cartridge Magazines, Ammunition and Projectiles as Prohibited or Restricted (see footnote 4) (the Regulations) establish the legal framework governing the classification of firearms in Canada. Firearms are classified as prohibited or restricted either by way of definition in the Code or through the Regulations. The Regulations list specific models of firearms (e.g. AK-47 rifle, Beretta, M16) as restricted or prohibited, and include “variants and modified versions” of those named models (e.g. any version of the Beretta BM59 is prohibited). The term “variant” is employed as a means to capture future firearms that differ (e.g. barrel length, cartridge size) from those specifically listed in the Regulations, but are generally the same make and type; however, there is no legislated definition of “variant.” Firearms not defined in the Code or prescribed by regulation as restricted or prohibited are, by default, non-restricted.

The RCMP Canadian Firearms Program (CFP) is responsible for the administration of the Firearms Act, (see footnote 5) which includes providing the technical expertise to interpret and determine the classification of firearms. To aid in this process, the RCMP has created the Firearms Reference Table (FRT), an administrative Web-based database that contains determinations regarding the classification of all known firearms in Canada. Before a firearm can be imported or registered in Canada, an FRT record must be generated.

Occasionally, it comes to the attention of the CFP that a firearm has been incorrectly described, or that a FRT record generated for a specific firearm describes an incorrect classification. Following physical inspection of the firearm by the CFP, the FRT record may be updated to properly reflect the appropriate classification of the firearm based upon the established criteria in the Code. Such amendments can affect the registration status of the firearm (e.g. a restricted firearm becomes prohibited). It is important to note that this is not a form of reclassification, but rather an update of an earlier determination based on new information. However, the impact on otherwise lawful firearms owners is serious and must be acknowledged.

Ceská Zbrojovka 858 Tactical 2 and 4 rifles

In 2005, the RCMP identified the CZ858 as non-restricted (in the case of longer barreled versions) or restricted (in the case of shorter barrelled versions) based upon manufacturer provided information that was subsequently confirmed by a physical inspection of samples at that time. FRT records were generated and the firearms were subsequently permitted to be imported, registered and sold in Canada.

In March 2013, the RCMP inspected and provided an expert opinion on the classification of a series of CZ858 proof marked 2007 or later. Following an internal review, the RCMP determined that at some point in 2007, the CZ858 rifles being imported into Canada differed from the inspected version and were in fact fully automatic firearms that had been converted to be semi-automatic firearms, rather than being the semi-automatics purported by the exporter. Converted fully automatic firearms are prohibited firearms under the Code given the possibility that they can be converted to fully automatic. Fully automatic firearms pose a significant public safety threat given their fast reloading action and their ability to discharge multiple shots each time the trigger is pulled. On February 26, 2014, the RCMP determined that the CZ858s were in fact prohibited firearms.

The Canada Border Services Agency estimates that more than 8 700 CZ858 rifles have been imported into Canada. There are 406 formerly restricted CZ858 rifles in Canada and 423 formerly non-restricted CZ858 rifles registered in Quebec based upon registration data. The estimated value of these firearms is between $500 and $1000 each.

Swiss Arms Classic Green rifles and its variants

In 2001, a Canadian importer requested a classification opinion of the Swiss Arms rifles in order to authorize their importation and registration in Canada. The RCMP reviewed documentation provided by the importer and the manufacturer which portrayed the Swiss Arms rifles as semi-automatic variants of the Swiss Arms SG 540. Based upon these documents, the RCMP created FRT records naming the firearms as non-restricted or restricted, depending on the barrel length. They were subsequently imported, registered and sold in Canada.

Following a complaint in December 2012 alleging that prohibited variants of the Swiss Arms rifles were being imported under the guise of being non-restricted or restricted, the RCMP inspected three of these firearms. The RCMP also sought additional information from the manufacturer and previous importers who had represented to the RCMP that the Swiss Arms rifles were non-restricted or restricted (depending on the barrel length). On February 26, 2014, the RCMP determined that all of the Classic Green rifles and its variants are descendants of the prohibited Swiss Arms SG 550 firearms and are prohibited firearms under the Criminal Code.

According to media reports, there are more than 2 000 Swiss Arms rifles in Canada. There are currently 310 formerly restricted Swiss Arms rifles in Canada and 42 formerly non-restricted Swiss Arms rifles in Quebec based upon registration data. The estimated value of these firearms is between $3,000 and $4,000 each.

The Previous Order permits the person to continue to possess, but not use, the affected firearms and be protected from criminal liability for being in unlawful possession of a prohibited firearm. The Previous Order also permits the person to deliver the firearm to a peace officer, firearms officer or chief firearms officer, to sell or give it to a business or museum authorized to possess prohibited firearms, and to transport the firearm for these purposes.

Objectives

The objective of this Amending Order is to protect persons from criminal prosecution if they use the firearm for target shooting at approved ranges or transport them for that purpose while the Government is undertaking the necessary steps to allow affected persons to continue to possess, use and transport their firearms.

Description

The Order Amending the Order Declaring an Amnesty Period (2014) amends the Previous Order to add, as a permitted purpose, the use of the firearms in target practice or in a target shooting competition under the auspices of a shooting club or shooting range that is approved under section 29 of the Firearms Act, which requires that clubs and ranges have the approval of the provincial minister of the province.

The Amending Order also specifies which models of firearms must be transported in accordance with the requirements for the safe transportation of non-restricted firearms, and which models must be transported in accordance with the requirements for restricted firearms, contained in the Storage, Display, Transportation and Handling of Firearms by Individuals Regulations, or in the case of businesses, in the Storage, Display, Transportation and Handling of Firearms and Other Weapons by Businesses Regulations.

This Order does not apply to hunting, transportation and use of a prohibited firearm for this purpose which falls within provincial jurisdiction.

“One-for-One” Rule

The “One-for-One” Rule does not apply to this proposal, as there is no change in administrative costs to business.

Small business lens

The small business lens does not apply to this proposal, as there are no costs on small business.

Rationale

The Government of Canada wants to ensure that firearm owners who acquired the firearms before they were determined to be prohibited firearms are permitted to transport them, in the same fashion as before they were determined to be prohibited firearms, for use in target shooting at approved ranges without fear of facing criminal liability under the Criminal Code while a permanent solution is implemented.

There are no cost implications associated with this Amending Order.

Implementation, enforcement and service standards

Communication efforts will focus on the Government’s efforts to prevent a reoccurrence of this problem via proposed regulations under the Firearms Act, and ensuring that firearm owners can continue to transport the firearms for use in target shooting without facing criminal liability while the Government is undertaking the necessary steps to allow affected persons to continue to possess, use and transport their firearms beyond the amnesty period. These will include bulletins, news releases and notices on Government Web sites.

Contact

Julie Besner
Acting Senior Counsel
Criminal Law Policy Section
Justice Canada
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0H8
Fax: 613-941-9310
Footnote a
S.C. 1995, c. 39, s. 139
Footnote b
R.S., c. C-46
Footnote 1
SOR/2014-56
Footnote 2
P.C. 2014-277
Footnote 3
R.S.C., 1985, c. C-46
Footnote 4
SOR/98-462
Footnote 5
S.C. 1995, c. 39

http://gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/2014/2014-08-13/html/sor-dors182-eng.php


====================


Order Declaring an Amnesty Period (2014)

SOR/2014-56

CRIMINAL CODE

Registration 2014-03-13

Order Declaring an Amnesty Period (2014)

P.C. 2014-277 2014-03-13

His Excellency the Governor General in Council, on the recommendation of the Minister of Justice, pursuant to subsection 117.14(1)Footnote a of the Criminal CodeFootnote b, makes the annexed Order Declaring an Amnesty Period (2014).


Return to footnote aS.C. 1995, c. 39, s. 139



Return to footnote bR.S., c. C-46


Definition of “firearm”

1. In this Order, “firearm” means any of the following prohibited firearms:

(a) a Ceská Zbrojovka (CZ) Model CZ858 Tactical-2P rifle;


(b) a Ceská Zbrojovka (CZ) Model CZ858 Tactical-2V rifle;


(c) a Ceská Zbrojovka (CZ) Model CZ858 Tactical-4P rifle;


(d) a Ceská Zbrojovka (CZ) Model CZ858 Tactical-4V rifle;


(e) a SAN Swiss Arms Model Classic Green rifle;


(f) a SAN Swiss Arms Model Classic Green carbine;


(g) a SAN Swiss Arms Model Classic Green CQB rifle;


(h) a SAN Swiss Arms Model Black Special rifle;


(i) a SAN Swiss Arms Model Black Special carbine;


(j) a SAN Swiss Arms Model Black Special CQB rifle;


(k) a SAN Swiss Arms Model Black Special Target rifle;


(l) a SAN Swiss Arms Model Blue Star rifle;


(m) a SAN Swiss Arms Model Heavy Metal rifle;


(n) a SAN Swiss Arms Model Red Devil rifle; or


(o) a SAN Swiss Arms Model Swiss Arms Edition rifle.


Marginal note:Declaration

2. (1) The amnesty period set out in subsection (3) is declared under section 117.14 of the Criminal Code for a person who

(a) on the day before this Order is registered, possessed a firearm and held a licence that was issued under the Firearms Act; and


(b) during the amnesty period, continues to hold the licence while in possession of the firearm.



Marginal note:Purpose

(2) The purpose of the amnesty period is to permit the person to do any of the following during that period:

(a) possess the firearm;


(b) deliver the firearm to a peace officer, firearms officer or chief firearms officer;


(c) sell or give the firearm to a business – including a museum – authorized to acquire and possess prohibited firearms;


(d) transport the firearm for the purposes of paragraph (b) or (c);


(e) use the firearm in target practice or at a target shooting competition, under the auspices of a shooting club or shooting range that is approved under section 29 of the Firearms Act, and, for that purpose, transport the firearm in accordance with,

(i) in the case of a firearm referred to in any of paragraphs 1(a), (b), (e), (h) and (k) to (o), the requirements set out in section 10 of the Storage, Display, Transportation and Handling of Firearms by Individuals Regulations or section 11 of the Storage, Display and Transportation of Firearms and Other Weapons by Businesses Regulations, as applicable, or


(ii) in the case of a firearm referred to in any of paragraphs 1(c), (d), (f), (g), (i) and (j), the requirements set out in section 11 of the Storage, Display, Transportation and Handling of Firearms by Individuals Regulations or section 12 of the Storage, Display and Transportation of Firearms and Other Weapons by Businesses Regulations, as applicable.


Marginal note:Amnesty period

(3) The amnesty period begins on the day on which this Order is registered and ends on March 14, 2016.


SOR/2014-182, s. 1.

Previous Version

Marginal note: Coming into force

3. This Order comes into force on the day on which it is registered.

http://lois-laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/regulations/SOR-2014-56/FullText.html

RangeBob
09-06-2015, 03:44 PM
or shoot a prohib. rifle at most ranges.

That was Quebec's argument.
Quebec said that they had no CFO approved ranges in Quebec that were authorized for prohibited, therefore CZ868's could not be transported in Quebec.

But BC and Ontario, and possibly other provinces, do have CFO approved ranges that are approved for prohibited.

Foxer
09-06-2015, 03:45 PM
The last amnesty specifically said you could transport the CZ858s to the range. (no permission to use them elsewhere, and you had to store them as prohib, but you could transport them).
I believe a few cfo's challenged that. ANd they said the range would have to be prohib'd authorized or else you weren't transporting it to a valid range.

Foxer
09-06-2015, 03:45 PM
That was Quebec's argument.
Quebec said that they had no CFO approved ranges in Quebec that were authorized for prohibited, therefore CZ868's could not be transported in Quebec.

But BC and Ontario, and possibly other provinces, do have CFO approved ranges that are approved for prohibited.

Not many i think.. which ones?

RangeBob
09-06-2015, 03:47 PM
Not many i think.. which ones?

I don't recall BC's CFO approved for prohibited firearm ranges. I thought you gave a list.

In Ontario there are a couple. "Burlingon Rifle and Revolver Club" is one that's CFO approved for prohibited.

Foxer
09-06-2015, 03:48 PM
I thought you gave a list.
Me? nope... i can't even think of any tho i'm sure there must be some somewhere.

RangeBob
09-06-2015, 03:58 PM
Me? nope... i can't even think of any tho i'm sure there must be some somewhere.

OK. Maybe I gave you a list, from somewhere. I know we've chatted about this afore. :)

Lee Enfield
09-06-2015, 06:28 PM
The bottom line was why would you take the chance taking your 858 to any range before Sept.2nd? Stopped by some know it all mountie where we live who actually doesn't know his arse from his elbow and have a lawyer bill to try to get your gun back.

There was no way I would count on the cop that stopped me having a clue about anything in particular let alone firearms law.

DILLIGAF
09-06-2015, 09:20 PM
saw a bunch of people with 858's during the prohibition. Most people didn't have a clue.

Camo tung
09-06-2015, 09:43 PM
saw a bunch of people with 858's during the prohibition. Most people didn't have a clue.

And other than it being a BS paper move by the RCMP these oblivious owners endangered no one, robbed no banks and committed no murders. Go figure.

Mil Specs
09-06-2015, 09:53 PM
Mine went to the range a fair bit , it was accompanied by the amnesty and amendments, my registration papers (which listed it as a NR previously) .I never had an issue and it would sit openly in the rack awaiting it's turn .

RangeBob
09-06-2015, 11:04 PM
The bottom line was why would you take the chance taking your 858 to any range before Sept.2nd? Stopped by some know it all mountie where we live who actually doesn't know his arse from his elbow and have a lawyer bill to try to get your gun back. There was no way I would count on the cop that stopped me having a clue about anything in particular let alone firearms law.

Others have mentioned their positions which are perfectly reasonable.

And yours is perfectly reasonable too. Particularly as it was temporary, and especially if you had other firearms to use during the interim.
Reminded me of the last line of:


The best reply to any police officer inquiring about any gun you own is to say:
I am a licensed gun owner, my gun is registered and it is safely stored (or transported).
This then eliminates and probable cause for the police to inquire further. If the police do inquire further the search may not be reasonable. If the unreasonable search reveals an illegality with respect to the gun charges will be laid and prosecuted. The decision to exclude the evidence of the illegally stored, transported or whatever gun will then be decided by a judge.
The first statement will assist your lawyer in arguing the evidence must be excluded. The Judge will look at case law, especially R. v. Grant 2009 SCC.
You will be on a restrictive release or bail not to even touch a gun or ammunition. All you other guns remain in police custody on the basis that if you unsafely stored one today you will do it with another tomorrow. Most judges go along with that idea. Your lawyer will be paid thousands of dollars to got to tedious and mostly unproductive court appearances trying to obtain police notes to show the search was contrary to the charter. The crown will not care and take the position that any gun found no matter how unreasonable the search is must be used in evidence in his/her analysis of section 24 of the Charter. The pre trial judge will listen and give serious guidance about 4 months into the criminal process.
But if the Crown does not back off there will be a trial. The trial will be about 9 or 11 months from the time the police laid the charge.
Of course it is so much easier to just put the F*&%$ng trigger lock on the gun , isn't it?
-- sweetheart (related to lawyer Ed Burlew)