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stevesummit
09-15-2015, 08:44 AM
Hello everyone

I am the Vice President of the Canadian Historical Arms Society located in Edmonton . As some of you know we are in a battle with the Alberta CFO office at this point as he is trying to dictate what we need for bullet containment. Now we have more or less decided that we will fight him for what it's worth .

Now I am not wanting to throw any other ranges under the bus , but I would like to talk with the other range Presidents and Vice Presidents to have a round table discussion about what this office and the representatives they send out are saying .

I wish to establish that they are not keeping the bar at the same level for everyone . Or even the simple fact that the message is different from various inspection officers . So I am asking everyone to please send me the contact info for your affiliated range . I hope to garner enough information from everyone that will help put this office back in its place as an entity that is here to serve us and not hinder the sport at every opportunity they see .

I believe that we as exec and shooters need to be a collective voice in presenting the facts to these guys and hold them accountable to our needs and stop them from pushing an agenda that does nothing but burn up membership dues and create tensions with the different exec.

CaperJim
09-15-2015, 10:01 AM
If you contact caperaway I'm sure he will provide info from our club's dealings with DNR and the CFO

Haywire1
09-15-2015, 10:08 AM
Here is albertas at least

http://www.abshooters.org/index.php?option=com_sobi2&catid=11&Itemid=85

Manitoba

http://drclaw.ca/firearms/ranges.html

British Columbia

https://silvercore.wordpress.com/2014/04/08/where-to-shoot-in-bc-shooting-ranges-in-bc-silvercore-firearms-training/

Haywire1
09-15-2015, 10:23 AM
Yukon

Whitehorse Rifle and Pistol Club (867) 633-4003

6MT
12-01-2015, 10:37 PM
Steve, any poop on progress on this file?

stevesummit
12-01-2015, 11:04 PM
The CFO replied with a list of deficiencies and we are addressing them . Most are invalid and shouldn't apply to us and this is where the fight is headed .

Foxer
12-02-2015, 12:15 AM
The CFO replied with a list of deficiencies and we are addressing them . Most are invalid and shouldn't apply to us and this is where the fight is headed .

insufficient bowing and groveling when he appears? Lack of signage pointing out that everyone there is a bad person just for wanting to shoot guns in the first place? Lack of liberal donations box?

stevesummit
12-02-2015, 01:30 AM
insufficient bowing and groveling when he appears? Lack of signage pointing out that everyone there is a bad person just for wanting to shoot guns in the first place? Lack of liberal donations box?

All of the above plus ground baffles when we control a mile of the template !

Coke
12-02-2015, 07:58 PM
Do you have a copy of the Canadian Firearms Centre Range Design and Construction Guidelines? I was give a hard copy and a PDF version when I became the Range Operator for our range...

stevesummit
12-02-2015, 11:01 PM
Do you have a copy of the Canadian Firearms Centre Range Design and Construction Guidelines? I was give a hard copy and a PDF version when I became the Range Operator for our range...
You bet I have one and have gone over it many times and disputed many this with the CFO in the "guidelines " they provide and consider gospel and law .

Coke
12-03-2015, 05:28 PM
OK. I didn't want to assume, as you know how that ends <LOL>. Would you like me to send you the copy of the PDF version?

6MT
12-05-2015, 01:26 PM
The CFO replied with a list of deficiencies and we are addressing them . Most are invalid and shouldn't apply to us and this is where the fight is headed .

Any time line figured out yet as to a resolution?

blacksmithden
12-06-2015, 03:29 AM
Any time line figured out yet as to a resolution?

It's the Canadian court system schedule......as in, no schedule. It's all going to depend on how far they want to drag this out.

TXS
04-22-2016, 05:41 PM
It's the Canadian court system schedule......as in, no schedule. It's all going to depend on how far they want to drag this out.

Any updates for this year? Last meeting i attended stated we were waiting on the court and dates...still ongoing? Getting itchy to ring the 800 meter steel..

stevesummit
04-22-2016, 06:21 PM
We are meeting with the CFO one last time to try and resolve this issue in the first week of May

armouredtrooper
07-26-2016, 06:19 PM
Who hires these jackasses? And why do we need them?

CLW .45
07-26-2016, 08:05 PM
Who hires these jackasses? And why do we need them?

We pay for them, and they are required by the law that was designed to disarm you.

The problem is not the meanies in the CFO office.

The problem is the law!

x0ra
07-27-2016, 02:23 AM
The problem is not the meanies in the CFO office.
It is. They could drag their feet and be the first layer of non-compliance...

Look south of the border how many county sheriff openly challenges the federal government's tentative to establish new gun law... We miss that in Canada, where we have a strict hierarchy without direct feedback or oversight.

CLW .45
07-27-2016, 03:30 PM
It is. They could drag their feet and be the first layer of non-compliance...

Look south of the border how many county sheriff openly challenges the federal government's tentative to establish new gun law... We miss that in Canada, where we have a strict hierarchy without direct feedback or oversight.

Give your head a shake, will you?

The CFO's wouldn't exist without the law!

RangeBob
07-27-2016, 03:38 PM
The CFO's wouldn't exist without the law!

True. But how many Laws?

By that I mean that before 1995's Firearms Act, several the provinces had CFOs of a sort who did range approvals and things.

The Firearms Act kind of kidnapped those departments and folded them into the Canadian Firearms Program, while at the same time giving them criminal code teeth, and expanding their mandate.

stevesummit
07-27-2016, 04:24 PM
True. But how many Laws?

By that I mean that before 1995's Firearms Act, several the provinces had CFOs of a sort who did range approvals and things.

The Firearms Act kind of kidnapped those departments and folded them into the Canadian Firearms Program, while at the same time giving them criminal code teeth, and expanding their mandate.


And here is the major problem we have with this office . Out reaching powers that are falsely ( sec 58 ) given to them and a mandate that isn't open or public knowledge . We all know what the objective is from these folks ( and I use the term loosely ) and that is to adapt us to ever increasing demands and stipulations. As a whole the firearms community needs to push back and collectively make the job they do harder and harder just as they do for us .

We will never have the political power we need to push them back into the hole they come from or the unity as a whole to stop them . But rest assured every time a firearms owner or club finds the ability to take them to task our goal of being left alone takes a step forward .

CLW .45
07-27-2016, 04:45 PM
True. But how many Laws?

By that I mean that before 1995's Firearms Act, several the provinces had CFOs of a sort who did range approvals and things.

The Firearms Act kind of kidnapped those departments and folded them into the Canadian Firearms Program, while at the same time giving them criminal code teeth, and expanding their mandate.

The firearms act provides that certain things must be done by the CFO.

Licence, transfer, carry, transport, and range approvals all require approval of the CFO.

There are likely others, but those are all directly related to we who own and use firearms.

Now, let's consider what we should do about our problems.

Is the CFO doing something that adversely affects us in relation to licencing?

Determine what section of the law applies (never disregard the regulations) and determine what change in that section will resolve the problem.

Transfers?

Right now, I can tell you that section 28 must be repealed.

Carry?

Section 20 must be amended to remove "need" and to replace "may" with "shall be authorized to carry to protect life when the applicant has passed the prescribed tests of knowledge and proficiency."

I won't go on because that should be sufficient to show what the initial step is - Identify the problem and the solution.

Step two is to lobby the government of the day.

As we address all issues in that way, we will wind up with law that addresses our concerns.

Lobby the government.

How do we make that work?

We have a big job there, and it starts with making the two million understand that they have a stake in this.

And, by making the segment of the non owning population that has no idea that there are, or can be, provisions for them to do what they want with firearms aware of the fact.

And, perhaps the toughest problem of all - getting the naysayers to either get on board, or get out of the way.

And, that includes providing support by not bad mouthing those whose interest differs.

CZshadowgirl
10-09-2016, 01:13 PM
Any updates? Do any of you think that one day in Canada we will be able to conceal and carry?

TheHydrant
10-09-2016, 01:25 PM
Any updates? Do any of you think that one day in Canada we will be able to conceal and carry?
Anything is possible.....but not probable in the foreseeable future.
I doubt I will see it in my lifetime. Derestricting certain firearms is more likely than widespread ATC's and even that is an uphill battle.

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

stevesummit
10-09-2016, 04:06 PM
Any updates? Do any of you think that one day in Canada we will be able to conceal and carry?

The lawyers had a PTC and started the bickering process. Other then that there have been no changes as of yet . I don't see this ending soon as the powers that be feel they have done nothin wrong and just can't seem to admit it .

Zinilin
10-09-2016, 05:22 PM
Concealed Carry is a Provincial matter in many jurisdictions .
Elect a provincial government that will property direct the Provincial CFO.

Mbile
10-12-2017, 02:59 PM
Concealed Carry is a Provincial matter in many jurisdictions .
Elect a provincial government that will property direct the Provincial CFO.

All ignorance aside, what happened with the inspection last week?

CLW .45
10-12-2017, 03:56 PM
Concealed Carry is a Provincial matter in many jurisdictions .
Elect a provincial government that will property direct the Provincial CFO.

While CFO's in some jurisdictions are provincial employees, they are all bound by the same law and regulation.

You will not see appropriate access to the provisions of section 20 of the firearms act until that section and the regulations pursuant to that section are changed.

DOA
10-12-2017, 09:10 PM
All ignorance aside, what happened with the inspection last week?

Still waiting on the response last I heard.

6MT
10-13-2017, 06:45 AM
Yeah Steve, an update on the cfo inspection would be appreciated before the AGM in November. My renewal for next year depends upon what the near future holds. It's been over two years now that the long range has been closed. Two years of a waste of my membership. I won't let it continue into a third year of basically paying for nothing. If there's no hope for the long range, then the club has lost my membership. Bad news, yes. But I'm not the only one who's been waiting. And my patience is at an end.

Andy 6MT

EDIT: If this comes off sounding rude, it was not my intention.

CLW .45
10-13-2017, 10:33 AM
Yeah Steve, an update on the cfo inspection would be appreciated before the AGM in November. My renewal for next year depends upon what the near future holds. It's been over two years now that the long range has been closed. Two years of a waste of my membership. I won't let it continue into a third year of basically paying for nothing. If there's no hope for the long range, then the club has lost my membership. Bad news, yes. But I'm not the only one who's been waiting. And my patience is at an end.

Andy 6MT

EDIT: If this comes off sounding rude, it was not my intention.

The agenda is working well - discouraging the use, carriage and possession of firearms to support disarmament.

blacksmithden
10-13-2017, 11:48 AM
Yeah Steve, an update on the cfo inspection would be appreciated before the AGM in November. My renewal for next year depends upon what the near future holds. It's been over two years now that the long range has been closed. Two years of a waste of my membership. I won't let it continue into a third year of basically paying for nothing. If there's no hope for the long range, then the club has lost my membership. Bad news, yes. But I'm not the only one who's been waiting. And my patience is at an end.

Andy 6MT

EDIT: If this comes off sounding rude, it was not my intention.

From what I understand of it, the inspection was done again, and that is all. Once again, everything is in the cfo's office and out of the clubs hand. No timeline is set with the cfos office because we all know they dont acknowledge anyone's priorites except their own. If they come back with an approval, Im sure the exec will have the range open within minutes, but theres is absolutely no way of knowing when/if that will happen. If they refuse, I guess its back to court time. I wouldnt bet the family farm this is going to be resolved before the end of the year, but who knows. It could happen. I hate to see members leaving, but I can understand everyones frustration. Sometimes ya gotta do what ya gotta do. Personally, Id rather see the long range closed for another 2 years than see the club give into the nonsensical whims of the cfos office. One way or the other, Ill be renewing my membership.

6MT
10-13-2017, 12:49 PM
Thanks Dennis. It is a shame. If that's the case, I won't be renewing.

killer kane
10-13-2017, 03:27 PM
In two years time, it'll probably be a Provincial CFO.

blacksmithden
10-13-2017, 04:00 PM
Thanks Dennis. It is a shame. If that's the case, I won't be renewing.

It was shortly after the inspection that I got second hand info Andy. You should at least come to the AGM next month and get the lastest straight from the exec. I'll be there for sure.

killer kane
10-28-2017, 03:11 PM
Well They're renewed, so long range is back, pistol's now open....

6MT
10-28-2017, 03:28 PM
Thank you Steve for the call. It's been a long 26 months. And....I can shoot my .50BMG too.

....and I will be renewing :-)