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Billythreefeathers
09-28-2015, 07:07 AM
Bill C-24: Trudeau Says Terrorists Shouldn't Be Stripped Of Citizenship In Leaked Audio

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/09/28/bill-c-24-trudeau-audio-conservatives_n_8206798.html

An audio recording of Justin Trudeau explaining why convicted terrorists should not be stripped of their Canadian citizenship has been leaked by Conservatives ahead of a key leaders' debate on foreign policy.

CTV News reported Sunday that the three-minute clip was recorded at a Winnipeg town hall in July.

In the recording, a man is heard asking the Liberal leader about Bill C-24, a controversial piece of legislation the man deems "absolutely disgusting."


C-24 allows the federal government to revoke the citizenship of Canadians convicted of terrorism, treason or espionage inside or outside of Canada. It also applies to dual citizens who take up arms against Canada by joining an international terrorist organization or fighting with a foreign army.

Civil rights groups have argued the law is unconstitutional and creates two-tier citizenship.

Trudeau said in the recording that the bill "exemplifies" the Conservative approach to politics and that Liberals staunchly oppose it.

"And I'll give you the quote so that you guys can jot it down and put it in an attack ad somewhere that the Liberal Party believes that terrorists should get to keep their Canadian citizenship," he said. "Because I do. And I'm willing to take on anyone who disagrees with that."

Trudeau also scored applause after saying that "as soon as you make citizenship for some Canadians conditional on good behaviour, you devalue citizenship for everyone."

The Liberal leader added that he found it "very, very scary" that a government could strip new Canadians of their citizenship rights because of unlawful actions.

"And by the way, there are penalties for anyone convicted of… terrorism or an act of war or an offence against Canada," he said. "They end up locked up in jail for the rest of their lives."

A "plane ticket to Syria" is not the same kind of punishment, Trudeau said.

Toronto Sun columnist Tarek Fatah shared the recording online, calling it "explosive."


Defence Minister Jason Kenney also took to Twitter with a graphic slamming Trudeau's position.


At a campaign event in Mississauga last month, Trudeau told Canada's largest Islamic conference that a Liberal government would repeal C-24. Thomas Mulcair's New Democrats have also pledged to repeal the law.

Feds revoke citizenship of Toronto 18 plotter

Last Friday, in an historic first, the federal government revoked the citizenship of Toronto 18 mastermind Zakaria Amara.

Amara was sentenced to life in prison in 2010 for planning to bomb downtown Toronto four years earlier. Amara aimed to flee to Pakistan and Afghanistan after the attack, which was ultimately thwarted by police.

Mulcair questioned Sunday why such a step would be taken in the middle of an election campaign.

"Give me a break," the NDP leader said at a rally in Toronto. "This is Mr. Harper strutting his stuff for his right-wing base."

Mulcair, Harper and Trudeau will square off at a debate Monday night, hosted by The Munk Debates, focused entirely on foreign policy.

Billythreefeathers
09-28-2015, 07:10 AM
just in time for tonight's foreign policy debate ;)

soulchaser
09-28-2015, 07:11 AM
Me thinks the man asking the question at the Town Hall was a Conservative plant, and The Boy Blunder was just too stupid to realize it.

soulchaser
09-28-2015, 07:14 AM
just in time for tonight's foreign policy debate ;)

wonder what video of the young, active, zen Trudeau preparing for the debate the Libs are going to release today.

We've had him boxing and canoeing.

DOOK
09-28-2015, 07:15 AM
Open mouth, insert foot.
I didn't really hear any solid justification as to just why Just in is against stripping citizenship, other than he finds it scary.
Please, tell me any other country that wouldn't take this action? Firing squad for sedition, or treason. Now, that's scary!

kennymo
09-28-2015, 07:15 AM
I'm anxiously awaiting to see how this plays out in Quebec.....

soulchaser
09-28-2015, 07:16 AM
"And by the way, there are penalties for anyone convicted of… terrorism or an act of war or an offence against Canada," he said. "They end up locked up in jail for the rest of their lives."


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!

Good one Justin. With your bleeding heart Liberal appointed judges?

Who knew he had a future in stand-up if this politician thing doesn't work out.

soulchaser
09-28-2015, 07:25 AM
Further to my post above, from CTV:

“There are penalties for anyone convicted of a terrorism or an act of war or offence against Canada -- they end up locked up in jail for the rest of their lives. “

But one member of the Toronto 18, convicted of being involved in the plot to bomb the city, has already been paroled. The so-called mastermind behind the plot is eligible for release next year, and the government announced Friday plans to revoke his citizenship and deport him to Jordan – the first such case in Canada since the new law was enacted."

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/in-audio-recording-trudeau-says-bill-c-24-makes-citizenship-conditional-upon-good-behaviour-1.2583849

TheCenturion
09-28-2015, 07:30 AM
He's right, though. At no point should somebody be forcibly stripped of their citizenship. I think the idea is also specifically contravened by a lot of very solemn treaties, not to mention centuries of diplomatic tradition.

Camo tung
09-28-2015, 07:34 AM
Not getting his "two tiered citizenship" quote. You lose your citizenship under these conditions, therefore there is only 1 tier. Turd brain.

Swampdonkey
09-28-2015, 08:26 AM
On one hand, there's no pride in membership without qualifying standards of character. One reason I'm proud to hold a PAL, and to be married. I take pride in having succeeded at workplaces where most hirees do not.

On the other hand, I appreciate the idea that a country cannot disown its citizens; it must take responsibility for them. Like parents for their children, officers for their soldiers.

I can see how this might be discussed with more intelligence and virtue, but not with the Liberal Party.

Pizzed
09-28-2015, 08:41 AM
Just heard the clip on radio.....sounds really bad. It sounds like he was joking and then goes on to be serious.

kennymo
09-28-2015, 08:43 AM
On the other hand, I appreciate the idea that a country cannot disown its citizens; it must take responsibility for them. Like parents for their children, officers for their soldiers.



So which country takes responsibility in the case of dual citizenship? I agree we can't remove citizenship of someone born in Canada (that's what life sentences are for), and I don't believe international courts will allow it. But why not make them the problem of their country of origin instead when such is the case? I'd vastly prefer it to letting them wander around Canada on 'parole'. Which is a whole other issue.....

speedloader
09-28-2015, 08:47 AM
other than the obvious which is hes trying to get their votes
is he really that stupid?
depending on the crime of course but if you plot an attack against your own country
or the people of your own country damn right you should loose citizenship and any other privileges
your a threat you've made your choice , Id say firing squad but shhhhh the unicorns might hear that and pee rainbows

Edward Teach
09-28-2015, 09:12 AM
What's the point of swearing an oath if there are no consequences for violating it?

Foxer
09-28-2015, 09:14 AM
What's the point of swearing an oath if there are no consequences for violating it?

Well this is the thing. You can fire an employee for lying on their resume for example. If someone has become a citizen and then used that to commit crimes AGAINST THE COUNTRY like terrorism, then their oath should be considered to have been given in bad faith and their citizenship revoked.

Otherwise, citizenship in our country just becomes a shield for terrorists to hide behind.

TheCenturion
09-28-2015, 09:22 AM
The thing that bugs me about 'terrorism,' especially since 9/11, is 'why are they so privileged by US, and now Canadian society?'

Somebody's a terrorist? Who cares? Treat them like the criminals they are, and be done with it. They're nothing special. They're not glorious romantic revolutionaries. They're not religious crusaders attempting to impose 'sharia law' upon unsuspecting countries. There's no fundamental difference between 'terrorist organization' and 'street gang.' Nobody called for the stripping of citizenship from any random murderer, so why these murderers?

Don't buy into their narrative. Treat them like the criminals they are, and move on.

Zinilin
09-28-2015, 09:25 AM
...They're not religious crusaders attempting to impose 'sharia law' upon unsuspecting countries....

What is your planet called?

Foxer
09-28-2015, 09:45 AM
Somebody's a terrorist? Who cares? Treat them like the criminals they are, and be done with it. They're nothing special. They're not glorious romantic revolutionaries. They're not religious crusaders attempting to impose 'sharia law' upon unsuspecting countries.I would disagree. I would look at it as being similar as the difference between police and soldiers on the other side. Police are kind of like soldiers, but they are not the same. Terrorists are kind of like criminals but they're not quite the same.

Edward Teach
09-28-2015, 09:47 AM
The thing that bugs me about 'terrorism,' especially since 9/11, is 'why are they so privileged by US, and now Canadian society?'

Somebody's a terrorist? Who cares? Treat them like the criminals they are, and be done with it. They're nothing special. They're not glorious romantic revolutionaries. They're not religious crusaders attempting to impose 'sharia law' upon unsuspecting countries. There's no fundamental difference between 'terrorist organization' and 'street gang.' Nobody called for the stripping of citizenship from any random murderer, so why these murderers?

Don't buy into their narrative. Treat them like the criminals they are, and move on.

Oh I'm quite happy to also strip citizenship from immigrants who show a wanton disregard for our laws and commit heinous crimes.
That's really what it's about anyway. You're just arguing semantics.

TheCenturion
09-28-2015, 10:13 AM
Oh I'm quite happy to also strip citizenship from immigrants who show a wanton disregard for our laws and commit heinous crimes.
That's really what it's about anyway. You're just arguing semantics.

Ok, so what about native born citizens who show a wanton disregard for our laws, and commit heinous crimes? How many people does a native born Canadian need to murder before they lose citizenship? What about rape? Grand theft? Petty theft? Failure to pay taxes? Traffic violation?

Either they're criminals, in which case try, prosecute and punish them, or they're soldiers, which means levy for them the penalties we already have for things like treason, armed insurrection and the like.

kennymo
09-28-2015, 10:20 AM
Ok, so what about native born citizens who show a wanton disregard for our laws, and commit heinous crimes? How many people does a native born Canadian need to murder before they lose citizenship? What about rape? Grand theft? Petty theft? Failure to pay taxes? Traffic violation?



Kind of a moot point. A person cannot be stripped of all citizenship according to international agreements Canada is part of. So jail time for our homegrown jerks.

TheCenturion
09-28-2015, 10:26 AM
Kind of a moot point. A person cannot be stripped of all citizenship according to international agreements Canada is part of. So jail time for our homegrown jerks.

Which I pointed out originally. Put the point stands. In a world where a kid who eats a poptart the wrong way, or who brings the wrong kind of clock to school, risks being arrested as a terrorist, do we really want there to be an option to strip them of their citizenship?

Doug_M
09-28-2015, 10:32 AM
Either they're criminals, in which case try, prosecute and punish them, or they're soldiers, which means levy for them the penalties we already have for things like treason, armed insurrection and the like.

Terrorists are criminals to be sure. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't treat them the same as a guy who kills his ex wife or a bank robber who shoots an armed guard. Terrorists maim and murder innocent people with the goal of terrorizing a nation into acting a certain way (change its foreign policy, pull out of a war etc).

Doug_M
09-28-2015, 10:35 AM
Which I pointed out originally. Put the point stands. In a world where a kid who eats a poptart the wrong way, or who brings the wrong kind of clock to school, risks being arrested as a terrorist, do we really want there to be an option to strip them of their citizenship?

Those things happened in the US. Canada is similar to the US in many ways, but different in more. And regardless it is a stretch to say it is possible for those incidents (assuming they happened in Canada) to go all the way to prosecution and conviction. I know you are trying to paint a slippering slope with your arguments in this thread, but there is no slope here. If you are a naturalized citizen convicted of terrorism you lose your adopted Canadian citizenship. Pretty straight forward and pretty limited scope of use.

conger
09-28-2015, 10:52 AM
Ok, so what about native born citizens who show a wanton disregard for our laws, and commit heinous crimes? How many people does a native born Canadian need to murder before they lose citizenship? What about rape? Grand theft? Petty theft? Failure to pay taxes? Traffic violation?

Either they're criminals, in which case try, prosecute and punish them, or they're soldiers, which means levy for them the penalties we already have for things like treason, armed insurrection and the like.
So what country would we be able to deport a born Canadian citizen to?
When someone comes here from somewhere else they have earned something. Not by birthright but by an application. If they fail to live up to a Canadian standard, like not conspiring to blow people up or commit crimes whose proceeds get sent overseas to help fund terrorist acts. Then they get to stay and carve out a better life for their families.
If they do bad things instead. They get to serve a prison term then deported where they no longer burden our country.
They lose the privilege of getting to be a Canadian.

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Swampdonkey
09-28-2015, 11:34 AM
So which country takes responsibility in the case of dual citizenship? I agree we can't remove citizenship of someone born in Canada (that's what life sentences are for), and I don't believe international courts will allow it. But why not make them the problem of their country of origin instead when such is the case? I'd vastly prefer it to letting them wander around Canada on 'parole'. Which is a whole other issue.....

Why would we trust another country with that responsibility? There's enough room in Canadian prisons for all the turncoat Arabs we can find.

Prisoners are very underutilized, IMO. In the USA they're a slave labour force, prisons being factories.

killer kane
09-28-2015, 11:50 AM
See above, only for their natural life.

TheCenturion
09-28-2015, 12:30 PM
Terrorists are criminals to be sure. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't treat them the same as a guy who kills his ex wife or a bank robber who shoots an armed guard. Terrorists maim and murder innocent people with the goal of terrorizing a nation into acting a certain way (change its foreign policy, pull out of a war etc).

So what? Guy A kills his ex, and two female friends, in Wilno. Guy B is a Canadian-born guy, radicalized as a teen, goes to the Middle East as a young adult, and opens fire in a market square, killing three people, wounding some. Guy C runs over a CF member in a parking lot. Guy D commits suicide-by-cop by killing an unarmed soldier, then storming Parliament. Lets assume D survived.

All of them are murderers. Why should they not all be treated as murderers?

TheCenturion
09-28-2015, 12:33 PM
Those things happened in the US. Canada is similar to the US in many ways, but different in more. And regardless it is a stretch to say it is possible for those incidents (assuming they happened in Canada) to go all the way to prosecution and conviction. I know you are trying to paint a slippering slope with your arguments in this thread, but there is no slope here. If you are a naturalized citizen convicted of terrorism you lose your adopted Canadian citizenship. Pretty straight forward and pretty limited scope of use.

If you're a naturalized citizen? Ok. Are we talking sole citizenship? If so, you can't take their citizenship. We've all agreed on that. Dual citizenship? Ok, say you strip it. What's the procedure? Some sort of open and fair trial, I'd hope. But if you're trying them anyway, shouldn't you be locking them up? Again, they're criminals. Guilty act, guilty mind, means motive and opportunity, all that jazz. Would the world look favorably upon Canada if we said "Ok, you're a convicted terrorist with known kills. Off you go then, just don't come back."

Billythreefeathers
09-28-2015, 12:57 PM
All of them are murderers. Why should they not all be treated as murderers?

If life meant life then I would agree,,

or if we had the death penalty for treason I would agree

but we don't

they have broken their oath so in doing so have renounced their Canadian citizenship

soulchaser
09-28-2015, 01:19 PM
Kinsella:

IS THIS ACCURATE? BECAUSE IF IT IS, HE JUST LOST THE ELECTION
September 28th, 2015, 12:10 pm
CPC folks are circulating it. Clip*here.*

I cannot believe he would say this. Anyone got context? Just landed in Van, in cab.*

conger
09-28-2015, 01:22 PM
So what? Guy A kills his ex, and two female friends, in Wilno. Guy B is a Canadian-born guy, radicalized as a teen, goes to the Middle East as a young adult, and opens fire in a market square, killing three people, wounding some. Guy C runs over a CF member in a parking lot. Guy D commits suicide-by-cop by killing an unarmed soldier, then storming Parliament. Lets assume D survived.

All of them are murderers. Why should they not all be treated as murderers?
Guy E kills a marine medic that was attempting to render aid following a fire fight. Guy E is a Canadian radicalized and stands trial as an enemy combatant. Serves his time in a couple of different prisons both operated by the US govt. Then returned to Canada to become our problem. Guy E is walking around now with reduced parole conditions. Should he not be in an American prison still?

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Kane63
09-28-2015, 01:25 PM
Everything else aside, Trudeau really is a sh*tty speaker when he's off script.

conger
09-28-2015, 01:28 PM
Everything else aside, Trudeau really is a sh*tty speaker when he's off script.
He would be easily manipulated by other world leaders if he were PM.

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Billythreefeathers
09-28-2015, 01:31 PM
Kinsella:

IS THIS ACCURATE? BECAUSE IF IT IS, HE JUST LOST THE ELECTION
September 28th, 2015, 12:10 pm
CPC folks are circulating it. Clip*here.*

I cannot believe he would say this. Anyone got context? Just landed in Van, in cab.*

in JT's own words,,

"the liberal Party believes that terrorist should get to keep their Canadian citizenship. Because I do. And I'm willing to take on anyone who disagrees with that'

Winnipeg town hall, July 4 2015

Kane63
09-28-2015, 01:34 PM
in JT's own words,,

"the liberal Party believes the terrorist should get to keep their Canadian citizenship. Because I do. And I'm willing to take on anyone who disagrees with that'

Winnipeg town hall, July 4 2015

I think the best part is that he prefaced this by saying he would give a quote and they could put it in attack ads. Good luck with that lol.

TheCenturion
09-28-2015, 01:39 PM
Guy E kills a marine medic that was attempting to render aid following a fire fight. Guy E is a Canadian radicalized and stands trial as an enemy combatant. Serves his time in a couple of different prisons both operated by the US govt. Then returned to Canada to become our problem. Guy E is walking around now with reduced parole conditions. Should he not be in an American prison still?

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Nah, at that point GuyE should be legitimately shot as an enemy combatant.

conger
09-28-2015, 01:41 PM
Nah, at that point GuyE should be legitimately shot as an enemy combatant.
You got me there. Lol

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Swampdonkey
09-28-2015, 01:43 PM
I think the best part is that he prefaced this by saying he would give a quote and they could put it in attack ads. Good luck with that lol.

We're taking it in context, then.

Kane63
09-28-2015, 01:58 PM
We're taking it in context, then.

It is 100% in context.

Billythreefeathers
09-28-2015, 02:00 PM
https://soundcloud.com/tarek-fatah/justin-trudeaus-explosive-audio-terrorists-should-get-to-keep-their-canadian-citizenship

Mark-II
09-28-2015, 02:18 PM
Which I pointed out originally. Put the point stands. In a world where a kid who eats a poptart the wrong way, or who brings the wrong kind of clock to school, risks being arrested as a terrorist, do we really want there to be an option to strip them of their citizenship?

Or we can get rid of the wet-brained liberal social engineering that expels a kid eating a pop tart and arrests a kid with a clock, and it becomes a non-issue.

blacksmithden
09-28-2015, 05:06 PM
Prefoming terrorist acts against Canada used to be called treason....which was a capital offense. Really...I have no problem with the state deporting them to the other side of the grass. If you just ship them back where they came from, its like shipping able bodied soldiers back to your enemy so they can fight you another day. The logic escapes me.

Swampdonkey
09-28-2015, 05:11 PM
Just another target for Rob Furlong.

Doug_M
09-28-2015, 05:26 PM
If you're a naturalized citizen? Ok. Are we talking sole citizenship? If so, you can't take their citizenship. We've all agreed on that. Dual citizenship? Ok, say you strip it. What's the procedure? Some sort of open and fair trial, I'd hope. But if you're trying them anyway, shouldn't you be locking them up? Again, they're criminals. Guilty act, guilty mind, means motive and opportunity, all that jazz. Would the world look favorably upon Canada if we said "Ok, you're a convicted terrorist with known kills. Off you go then, just don't come back."

Um, no it isn't "off you go". It is trial, conviction, imprisonment and stripping of citizenship. The convicted terrorist remains in jail, in Canada. If so sympathetic parole board lets him out early then rather than going back to Toronto or Calgary he goes back to his shitty country of origin and can no longer be a drain on the tax payer.



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762shooter
09-29-2015, 09:35 AM
What's the point of swearing an oath if there are no consequences for violating it?

Not to mention no loyalty to your adopted country. Those dual citizens who would plan or undertake terror attacks against their supposedly fellow citizens, by their actions demonstrate that their Canadian citizenship is a sham. Revoking such false citizenship simple recognizes the reality.

762shooter
09-29-2015, 09:37 AM
Prefoming terrorist acts against Canada used to be called treason....which was a capital offense. Really...I have no problem with the state deporting them to the other side of the grass. If you just ship them back where they came from, its like shipping able bodied soldiers back to your enemy so they can fight you another day. The logic escapes me.

I don't disagree with you but realistically we don't have that option available.

DanN
09-29-2015, 10:05 AM
What's the point of swearing an oath if there are no consequences for violating it?

This.

And contrary to what JT says, allowing convicted terrorists to retain their Canadian citizenship is what devalues Canadian citizenship. Showing strong conviction against espionage, treason and terrorism is strength, not weakness.

conger
09-29-2015, 10:14 AM
This.

And contrary to what JT says, allowing convicted terrorists to retain their Canadian citizenship is what devalues Canadian citizenship. Showing strong conviction against espionage, treason and terrorism is strength, not weakness.
When I heard the boy blunder utter those words I was floored by truly how backwards his views are. He keeps talking about he is in touch with the middle class yet he knows nothing about how the average Canadian thinks. He really blew it with that statement.

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DanN
09-29-2015, 10:22 AM
JT's vision from ISIS pont of view:


OK, so you're going to go to Canada and park an IED in Ottawa to send them a message. If you get caught, you'll spend a few years in prison; not long. Before you know it you'll be released as a model citizen and can live in their country in peace.. until we need you again.