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Billythreefeathers
09-28-2015, 03:27 PM
Munk leaders' debate tonight to focus on foreign policy issues

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-foreign-policy-debate-1.3245821

Tonight's Munk debate on Canadian foreign policy will dig deeper into the issues of security, trade and Canada's place in the world.

A few weeks ago, the Syrian refugee crisis put foreign affairs at the centre of Canada's federal election campaign, which for weeks had been focusing on economic growth and jobs. If talks conclude successfully later this week, a game-changing Pacific Rim trade deal could give the Conservatives a feather in their cap heading into the home stretch.


Here's a summary of what has happened so far on some of the key issues expected to feature in tonight's debate:

Follow the debate with CBCNews.ca

Conservative Leader Stephen Harper, NDP Leader Tom Mulcair and Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau face off on foreign policy tonight in the fourth of five election leaders' debates: This one is hosted by the Munk Debates at Toronto's Roy Thomson Hall, starting at 7 p.m. ET.

CBC News will host a special live blog featuring debate highlights and analysis, at CBCNews.ca/Canada Votes.

The Munk Debates will offer a live stream for the bilingual event, with translation. Tonight's debate will also be live streamed on Facebook and carried on CPAC (the Cable Public Affairs Channel) and CHCH.

Climate Change

In just over two months' time, when the United Nations Conference on Climate Change gets under way in Paris, Canada's position may differ significantly depending on who wins the Oct. 19 election. The Conservative approach to greenhouse gas emissions has been at odds with the NDP and Liberal approach.

NDP Leader Tom Mulcair released more detail Sunday on his party's promised national cap-and-trade system to make big polluters reduce their greenhouse gas emissions. It aims to reduce emissions by 80 per cent by 2050, compared to 1990 levels. An NDP government won't impose that national plan on provinces like Alberta, B.C., Ontario and Quebec that have developed their own systems to control emissions.

NDP plan to limit greenhouse gases would let provinces opt out
Canada's action on climate change still 'inadequate': Bob McDonald
Spin Cycle: Is Tom Mulcair in favour of exporting bulk water?
In this respect, the NDP approach is similar to the Liberal plan, which would work with the provinces to set targets but keep the mechanisms for reaching them flexible, open to different strategies in different parts of the country.

The Conservatives have taken a sector-by-sector approach to emissions targets, but have faced criticism for the length of time it has taken to implement those sector-specific rules. For example, there are no national regulations yet to control the country's largest source of emissions — the oil and gas industry.

Syrian refugee crisis

After weeks of pressure, the Conservatives announced they would speed up refugee applications, send more immigration officers to the region and waive the requirement for a UN designation for refugees.

Immigration Minister Chris Alexander says the government will bring 10,000 refugees to Canada by September 2016 — 15 months faster than originally promised. The Conservatives have also pledged to bring in an additional 10,000 refugees from Syria in four years.

The Liberals and NDP had already been calling for the government to increase their commitment. The Liberals are calling for 25,000 Syrian refugees to come to Canada by Dec. 31.

The NDP presented a plan for bringing 10,000 refugees to Canada by the end of this year and a total of 46,000 by 2019.

Terror threats

The Conservatives have taken the most hawkish position on international threats. In August, they announced a policy of travel bans to and from "declared" areas with terrorist activities. Conservative Leader Stephen Harper has repeated that his party won't abandon Canada's mission to degrade and destroy the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria (ISIS).

Toronto 18 ringleader's citizenship revoked under Bill C-24
Tories propose ban on travel to terrorist hotspots
ISIS mission: Comparing leaders' positions
The Canadian military is currently involved in airstrikes and training local ground troops.

Mulcair says his party would withdraw from the combat and training mission on its first day in office if elected. The NDP says the Conservatives have overlooked the importance of anti-radicalization efforts at home. Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau says his party would withdraw from airstrikes, but would continue to provide humanitarian assistance and train local soldiers to fight ISIS.

Trade

The Conservatives say they have the best record on trade because they have signed 39 trade agreements since they've taken office.

Quebec dairy farmers panicked over Trans-Pacific deal
Trans-Pacific Partnership could include big dairy concession
Unifor, autoworkers want Tory candidates to state views on TPP
Trans-Pacific Partnership: Harper says auto industry won't like it all
FedElxn Debate 20150917
NDP Leader Tom Mulcair, Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau and Conservative Leader Stephen Harper, left to right, will debate foreign policy at Toronto’s Roy Thomson Hall on Monday night. (Sean Kilpatrick/Canadian Press)

The master stroke was supposed to come with the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), which would give Canada access to 11 other Pacific Rim countries, including the U.S., Mexico, Australia and Japan. That agreement is still being negotiated with sticking points including ending supply management for dairy farmers and regional content quotas for the auto industry.

The NDP says it would fight to protect the dairy and automotive sectors, and are calling for the Conservatives to be more open about what they would give up.

Trudeau says Canada has been able to protect those industries in past agreements, and it should be no different in this case.

Defence

Trudeau says the Liberals would scrap the controversial F-35 fighter purchase plan, and run a new competition to replace Canada's aging CF-18 fleet.

Justin Trudeau vows to scrap F-35 fighter jet program
Liberals 'living in a dream world' on F-35 cancellation, Stephen Harper says
The Conservatives say they'll stick with the current plan to eventually sign a contract for purchase of the F-35s, and warn that withdrawing could hurt the domestic aerospace industry.

Real Gauthier
Quebec farmer Réal Gauthier is among dairy industry members awaiting the outcome of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP), a trade agreement between Canada and 11 other Pacific Rim countries. (Tanya Birkbeck/CBC)

While Mulcair says the F-35 procurement plan was flawed, he said he would still consider buying the jet once he reopens the competition to replace Canada's fighter fleet.

The Liberals say they would maintain planned increases in military spending and reinvest savings from the F-35 program into the renewing the navy's fleet.

The Conservatives have announced they will spend $75 million to expand Canada's special forces, which are currently involved in the training mission against ISIS in northern Iraq.

Canada and the world

Mulcair and Trudeau refer to "restoring" Canada's reputation in the world after a decade of Harper leadership, usually referring to the Conservatives' position on climate change and humanitarian assistance to refugees.

Canada sets carbon emissions reduction target of 30% by 2030

The Conservatives say Canada is one of the most respected countries in the world, according to international polls. Harper says Canada will continue to stand with its allies, such as Israel and Ukraine, against hostile neighbours. He has made the point of mentioning Russian President Vladimir Putin in his stump speeches.

Mulcair has previously called Russia's actions in Crimea "criminal." Last year, Russia was ready to bring its nuclear weapons into a state of alert during tensions over the Crimean Peninsula and the overthrow of Ukraine's president, Putin said in March.

Trudeau says Canada should work with international partners to respond to aggression in Ukraine.

http://munkdebates.com/livestream

Billythreefeathers
09-28-2015, 03:28 PM
starts in about 90 mins

with Canada rated as the number one country in the world this should be where PM Harper shines

Gaidheal
09-28-2015, 05:35 PM
Jumping Jesus on a pogo stick the woman doing French to English translation is hard to listen to.

Gaidheal
09-28-2015, 05:38 PM
FML JT is on a rant about his daddy

never mind he's trying to school mulcair on saying one thing in French and another in English

Go get him angry tom...

FlyingHigh
09-28-2015, 05:38 PM
Is this debate en Quebecois?

Got a pop up saying that due to technical difficulties they won't be streaming the debate. Bunch of incompetents...

Spike 162
09-28-2015, 05:41 PM
Pot meet kettle!! F me!!! What a hypocrite!!!

Gaidheal
09-28-2015, 05:42 PM
I'm watching it on cpac. no ads no banners just JT interrupting and being told to stop.

And blather about his daddy

Mostly in English.

blacksmithden
09-28-2015, 05:46 PM
My internet is CRAWLING tonight.....keeps stopping the feed. Details ! I need details ! Has anyone asked Just-in about his terrorist citizenship comments yet ?

Gaidheal
09-28-2015, 05:47 PM
JT is now defending his position on not stripping terrorists of citizenship

wow. just wow

Dushan
09-28-2015, 05:48 PM
They are just talking about citizenship.

Gaidheal
09-28-2015, 05:48 PM
Harper - are you seriously saying we should never do this?

go get him Harper. Crowd is LOVING it. lotrs of clapping

Gaidheal
09-28-2015, 05:49 PM
JT just interrupted him again.

JT did everything but stamoped his feet and I think he just got booed

kennymo
09-28-2015, 05:50 PM
Harper getting some serious applause over his stance on revoking citizenship of terrorists. JT sticks foot in mouth again.

Dushan
09-28-2015, 05:50 PM
Little twerp keeps interrupting and this miserable(again) moderator does nothing(again).

Pizzed
09-28-2015, 05:52 PM
Man, anyone have a list of those core Canadian values Mulcair was talking about?

kennymo
09-28-2015, 05:53 PM
Trudeau: 80% of mothers dying from improper abortions? I hope that's a translation problem....

* ah, in war countries....abortions for everyone instead of military aid, got it.

RangeBob
09-28-2015, 05:57 PM
"Mr. Harper. Big sled, no dogs."
-- Justin Trudeau. [audience chuckled]

Gaidheal
09-28-2015, 06:05 PM
haha mulcair zinged JT!

Mulcair - "mr Trudeau you couldn't stand up to Mr Harper on C-51... how are you going to stand up to Mr Putin?"

LOL

Billythreefeathers
09-28-2015, 06:05 PM
nice jab Tom,,,

JT can't even stand up to Harper

Edward Teach
09-28-2015, 06:07 PM
"Mr. Harper. Big sled, no dogs."
-- Justin Trudeau. [audience chuckled]

I wonder how long it took him to memorize that line?

Pizzed
09-28-2015, 06:07 PM
Harper seems to be getting the most applause. If JT uses multi-lateral or engage one more time.......

Billythreefeathers
09-28-2015, 06:08 PM
seems the only leader getting applause is PM Harper

Gaidheal
09-28-2015, 06:16 PM
silence from teh crowd the whole time JT blathered about canada-us relations.

Harper starts talking - the crowd responds positively immediately and erupts in clapping when he's done

very telling

Gaidheal
09-28-2015, 06:17 PM
crowd silence while mulcair yammers on.

some clapping when he finishes

Gaidheal
09-28-2015, 06:19 PM
all three of JT's clappers went off when he mentioned that every party supports israel

weird

Billythreefeathers
09-28-2015, 06:21 PM
JTs windbaggery is in full blow,,

FlyingHigh
09-28-2015, 06:31 PM
Apparently the internet hates me. No stream working for me. Keep the commentary coming!!!

Billythreefeathers
09-28-2015, 06:32 PM
go to CPAC,, it's working

Gaidheal
09-28-2015, 06:32 PM
JT just accused mulcair of "pomp"

Muclair itnerrupted him and said "I'll leave the pomp to you Justin"

zing. informal zing! haha

Gaidheal
09-28-2015, 06:33 PM
moderator is actually doing a decent job of keeping them on topic.

I do wish they would just turn off JTs mic when he interrupts

RangeBob
09-28-2015, 06:33 PM
NDP has the best history of balanced budgets. [audience boos] Except for Bob Rae but it turned out he was a Liberal. [audience laughs]
-- Tom Mulcair

Billythreefeathers
09-28-2015, 06:36 PM
Treudow and Mulcare are using French to cover their carbon tax raising tracks

Billythreefeathers
09-28-2015, 06:38 PM
how can JT use so many words and still say noting?

Pizzed
09-28-2015, 06:39 PM
Mulcair and his hands...better than Wynne though!

FlyingHigh
09-28-2015, 06:39 PM
go to CPAC,, it's working

Not for me. Net is being stupid slow tonight.

Dushan
09-28-2015, 06:42 PM
Mulcair: Mr. Trudeau does not understand debates because he has other people write lines for him. Bazinga!

Pizzed
09-28-2015, 06:43 PM
^That one is gonna sting!

FlyingHigh
09-28-2015, 06:44 PM
Up and running. About friggen time.

Shut up Turdeau.

Billythreefeathers
09-28-2015, 06:44 PM
ya that's a stick in the spokes for sure

Billythreefeathers
09-28-2015, 06:45 PM
how much CO2 has JT pumped into the sky,,

oh and JT STFU and stop intupting

FlyingHigh
09-28-2015, 06:47 PM
My word, translator lady's voice made my ears bleed!!


Nice shot Harper!

Dushan
09-28-2015, 06:48 PM
Mulcair: who do you want to represent Canada at the climate change summit in Paris?

Well not a French citizen, for sure...

Billythreefeathers
09-28-2015, 06:49 PM
mulcare got NO applause at the end of his last comments

Donny Fenn
09-28-2015, 06:50 PM
Treudow and Mulcare are using French to cover their carbon tax raising tracks

yeah, i was wondering about that, and the french translator (woman on my feed) is not very good and my french sucks

blacksmithden
09-28-2015, 06:50 PM
Mulcaire: Who do you want sitting across the table from Angela Merkel at the climate debate?

SERIOUSLY TOM ? You use Germany as an example of those who need impressing on our climate policies, after it was announced this week that their national car manufacturer has been cheating on emission testing for years and years ? THE BRAIN DAMAGE !!!! IT HUUUUUUUURTS !!!!!

Billythreefeathers
09-28-2015, 06:51 PM
and so were now at the end of the debate,, now we will discuss who won,, who lost,, and who just showed up

best debate so far,,

kennymo
09-28-2015, 06:55 PM
and so were now at the end of the debate,, now we will discuss who won,, who lost,, and who just showed up

best debate so far,,

Well, I was jumping in and out of it, but there seemed to be some strong applause for the PM throughout....

Edward Teach
09-28-2015, 07:03 PM
If JT uses multi-lateral or engage one more time.......

Drink!

RangeBob
09-28-2015, 07:10 PM
Mulcair: Who do you want sitting across the table from Angela Merkel at the climate debate?

[sarcasm]
I know! I know!
We want someone who has wanted for three decades to recklessly spend without limit on environmental concerns and wreck entire economies forcing them to use inefficient and uncompetitive techniques driving all capitalism into bankruptcy.
We want someone who says he will 'enforce' annual carbon emission limits on power generation plants no matter what; so if in November the province of Ontario's Natural Gas Electric Plants are over their limits we'll shut them down until January cause that'll teach them to be more moderate next year.
That's the kind of man Merkel wants in Germany.

speedloader
09-28-2015, 08:12 PM
you go RB!well said
Harper said it tonight the whole carbon tax thing is a scam for goverments to get more money out of consumers
and thats why he will not impose it ever, because he doesn't need it to pay off the massive amounts of debt
that other two are going to ring up in four years because they have no idea what they are doing.

savage300wsm
09-28-2015, 08:13 PM
Reading a few transcripts and I come accross the exchange regarding revoking citizenship,of a convicted terrorist

To paraphrase
Harper: Revoke citizenship of a convicted terrorist
Trudeau: No we can't do that that's not nice.

If the Libs get into government with JT we are are officially a brain dead country. FFS how can anyone vote for that.

Y

Foxer
09-28-2015, 08:43 PM
I hope everyone noticed that mulcair brought up the international arms treaty (which apperently the fact we haven't signed somehow means isis is getting guns). You can bet that will be the first thing on his agenda if he gets elected, and there's not a damn thing we can do to stop him from signing it.

This sh*t just got real. That's a severe blow to us if they sign it and it doesn't even really require much from the house to make it stick once they do. So it's not 'speculation' any more - if the ndp get in (and probably the libs) you can bet gun owners will pay that price day one.

Foxer
09-28-2015, 08:48 PM
Overall, I think harper looked fantastic and did great. The other debates except the french one he was just completely on the defensive and had no opportunity to look good, but in this one I thought he made some very telling points and I think they'll tend to stick. I missed some of it due to the feed cutting out, including justin's "passionate" use of the 'daddy card', but it looked to me like justin didn't come across well for many of the questions. Mulcair really got off some good shots but overall he just didn't sound plausable. He didn't really sound like he had a plan for anything, not how to deal with isis, not how to deal with trade deals, not anything really. I doubt he won much support in that round.

And I think it was a mistake for mulcair to say "who do you want representing you etc etc". I think a lot of people probably answered that question with "harper" in their minds, or "not you" at least.

It takes about 4 days for debates to have a solid effect as a rule, but I think we'll see this wound up giving the CPC a bit of a bounce more than any of the others. Which is exactly what he needed to do, he's got a little momentum right now, if he can build on that and enter the last two weeks of the election as the clear leader and pull away I think he may just pull it off.

Foxer
09-28-2015, 09:14 PM
Well just going over social media stuff and various pundits reports, I think that the general consensus was that harper won. Even those trying to spin it for the leader they like seem to have to concede that over all this was harper's strongest performance and he probably made his arguments the best. I think that coming on the back of a good performance in the quebec debate it's going to put some real wind in his sails, especially in ontario.

Unfortunately, i also think the ndp are walking away the losers here, and while trudeau won't get a lot of new support right away, the libs may benefit a little from the decline of the ndp unless mulcair can turn it around very quickly. I'd rather see the ndp take second than the libs, I'd rather see the libs kicked to the curb again and crippled. But they're losing ground in quebec where they just can't afford to and they're not doing very well anywhere else, except bc which may give them a small handful of seats but will largely go cpc.

soulchaser
09-28-2015, 09:20 PM
Robert Fife of CTV seems to think Trudeau won.

Said Harper looked and sounded Prime Ministerial, but Trudeau won by coming off as the guy the anti Harper vote can rally around.

Foxer
09-28-2015, 09:23 PM
Robert Fife of CTV seems to think Trudeau won.

Said Harper looked and sounded Prime Ministerial, but Trudeau won by coming off as the guy the anti Harper vote can rally around.

So by coming in second he managed to come in first :) Well - as i said he may get a boost if the ndp starts to fall apart a little, but that's not the same as winning. I think that trudeau's policies had a lot of holes shot in it and that he came across as weak, even if not as weak as mulcair. That may pump his numbers in the polls, but it's not going to help his voter turn out.

I also note that a lot of polling has shown that the desire for 'change' has really started to fall off and isn't the pressing issue that it used to be. It's still up there, but i don't think it's the motivator it once was.

Mark-II
09-28-2015, 09:39 PM
Ugh... The only thing Trudeau is fit to run is out of gas

Prairie Dog
09-29-2015, 12:25 AM
Robert Fife of CTV seems to think Trudeau won.

Said Harper looked and sounded Prime Ministerial, but Trudeau won by coming off as the guy the anti Harper vote can rally around.

Fife can go pound sand....

http://i366.photobucket.com/albums/oo106/sigp226rfan/12036950_869981429757052_8403718180932050465_n_zps do6hy6wn.png

Pizzed
09-29-2015, 05:11 AM
Mulcair and Trudeau did not knock Harper off his game. For that reason, more than a few 'neutral pundits' that I saw/heard/read comment have said that Harper won. But overall, they all did well.

Doug_M
09-29-2015, 05:20 AM
Mulcair and Trudeau did not knock Harper off his game. For that reason, more than a few 'neutral pundits' that I saw/heard/read comment have said that Harper won. But overall, they all did well.
It certainly was the best debate so far in terms of interesting topics, animated politicians and the fact that they had to each reveal more depth of their positions than they have in the past. They each got some good shots in too.

speedloader
09-29-2015, 05:58 AM
I think Harper did well
considering he doesn't get ample time to speak because first he has to start out by
correcting the facts that the other two get WRONG , so often then he can say his piece.
it must be really frustrating for him to listen to the absolute crap they spew and then
wait to correct it and have them talk over him but he keeps his cool very well.
He knows they are clueless as to how everything really works , you can tell the way he looks at them
that has to be tiring , correct the stupid over and over in two different languages

Billythreefeathers
09-29-2015, 06:55 AM
Ezra had a pretty good analyzes

http://www.therebel.media/munk_leaders_debate

Kane63
09-29-2015, 07:04 AM
I think it's interesting that CBC didn't cover it.

speedloader
09-29-2015, 08:28 AM
Ezra had a pretty good analyzes

http://www.therebel.media/munk_leaders_debate

yep, Ezra will point out the stupid like Mulcair leaving his Bus running for 5 hours
but meanwhile pushing his party environmental green house gas scam tax agenda
just like his security detail with guns to protect him but we can't protect ourselves
Hypochrite much their Tommy?
He should have been a tv evangelist would have been more convincing

kennymo
09-29-2015, 08:59 AM
From elsewhere:

Random observation 2: the moderator asked Trudeau how he’d deal with Putin and the audience immediately laughed. Ouch.


I missed this bit, anyone got a clip or know the timeframe?

Pizzed
09-29-2015, 09:24 AM
I missed this bit, anyone got a clip or know the timeframe?That was when Mulcair quipped that JT didn't stand up to Harper on C-51 so how does he expect to stand up to Putin. That was what the audience laughed at.

TJSpeller
09-29-2015, 09:34 AM
Overall, I think harper looked fantastic and did great. The other debates except the french one he was just completely on the defensive and had no opportunity to look good, but in this one I thought he made some very telling points and I think they'll tend to stick. I missed some of it due to the feed cutting out, including justin's "passionate" use of the 'daddy card', but it looked to me like justin didn't come across well for many of the questions. Mulcair really got off some good shots but overall he just didn't sound plausable. He didn't really sound like he had a plan for anything, not how to deal with isis, not how to deal with trade deals, not anything really. I doubt he won much support in that round.

And I think it was a mistake for mulcair to say "who do you want representing you etc etc". I think a lot of people probably answered that question with "harper" in their minds, or "not you" at least.

It takes about 4 days for debates to have a solid effect as a rule, but I think we'll see this wound up giving the CPC a bit of a bounce more than any of the others. Which is exactly what he needed to do, he's got a little momentum right now, if he can build on that and enter the last two weeks of the election as the clear leader and pull away I think he may just pull it off.


Harper clearly won, but Mulcair also clearly lost. I worry that even a few % shift to the Liberals from the NDP could end up breaking the vote split, and then the Liberals have it with a combination of Quebec, Atlantic and Ontario votes, the way they always did. BC really may end up deciding the election, or maybe the difference between minority and majority.

The other thing is that the Globe is clearly coalescing behind Trudeau. Their editorials and columns are supporting him more and more every day. They will endorse him for sure, I think.

Foxer
09-29-2015, 09:34 AM
That was when Mulcair quipped that JT didn't stand up to Harper on C-51 so how does he expect to stand up to Putin. That was what the audience laughed at.
no, as i recall it they laughed when he was asked how he would deal with facing putin, They laughed HARDER when mulcair made his comment :) But it was about the same timeframe - justin was asked the question, he responded, mulcair made his quip.

Foxer
09-29-2015, 09:48 AM
Harper clearly won, but Mulcair also clearly lost. I worry that even a few % shift to the Liberals from the NDP could end up breaking the vote split, and then the Liberals have it with a combination of Quebec, Atlantic and Ontario votes, the way they always did.

I agree that mulcair did the least strong, and that's going to hurt him. I'm not 100 percent sure that this will mean a lot of votes for the libs - justin's performance wasn't terribly brilliant. People talk about his empassioned defense of his father, but honestly that kind of stuff fades very fast and they will remember his answers on questions and things like 'you can't even stand up to harper, you can't handle putin'. I think what may happen is we may see some numbers shift in the polls, but we MAY also very well see a poorer voter turn out for both parties come election day as voters really can't get behind either of them wiht any enthusiasm, especially if harper starts to pull away and it looks like he's going to win a majority.

And justin cannot win with just quebec and the maritimes, even if he sweeps them. And he's in no danger of sweeping ontario - if anything the cpc is gaining ground there. Even if the ndp vote there moves to the libs, that will likely mostly only affect ridings where the libs and dips were going to win anyway. Remember - the ndp vote wasn't particularly strong in ontario last election either and the CPC still took the majority of seats there.

These days it is VERY hard to win an election unless you sweep ontario entirely without major support in the west. THe west has only 6 seats less than all of quebec and the maritimes combined. And while the libs may largely sweep the maritimes, it is very unlikely that they will sweep quebec (you never know with quebec, but it's unlikely), The cpc on the other hand will tend to largely sweep the praries, and will probably have the most seats in bc, probably more than half.

So we'll see, but so far the CPC still are poised for a very strong minority or weak majority, and they're on the rise. Last night was a strong performance by harper and will likely boost his standings in the polls over the next 4 days or so, and we're coming into the last leg of the race which is somewhere the cpc tends to dominate historically. If they can build on their momentum we may yet see that second majority gov't.

TJSpeller
09-29-2015, 10:51 AM
I agree that mulcair did the least strong, and that's going to hurt him. I'm not 100 percent sure that this will mean a lot of votes for the libs - justin's performance wasn't terribly brilliant. People talk about his empassioned defense of his father, but honestly that kind of stuff fades very fast and they will remember his answers on questions and things like 'you can't even stand up to harper, you can't handle putin'. I think what may happen is we may see some numbers shift in the polls, but we MAY also very well see a poorer voter turn out for both parties come election day as voters really can't get behind either of them wiht any enthusiasm, especially if harper starts to pull away and it looks like he's going to win a majority.

And justin cannot win with just quebec and the maritimes, even if he sweeps them. And he's in no danger of sweeping ontario - if anything the cpc is gaining ground there. Even if the ndp vote there moves to the libs, that will likely mostly only affect ridings where the libs and dips were going to win anyway. Remember - the ndp vote wasn't particularly strong in ontario last election either and the CPC still took the majority of seats there.

These days it is VERY hard to win an election unless you sweep ontario entirely without major support in the west. THe west has only 6 seats less than all of quebec and the maritimes combined. And while the libs may largely sweep the maritimes, it is very unlikely that they will sweep quebec (you never know with quebec, but it's unlikely), The cpc on the other hand will tend to largely sweep the praries, and will probably have the most seats in bc, probably more than half.

So we'll see, but so far the CPC still are poised for a very strong minority or weak majority, and they're on the rise. Last night was a strong performance by harper and will likely boost his standings in the polls over the next 4 days or so, and we're coming into the last leg of the race which is somewhere the cpc tends to dominate historically. If they can build on their momentum we may yet see that second majority gov't.


From your mouth to god's ears Foxer.

If they win, I'll celebrate by getting a quality AR-15, or maybe even a Swiss Arms.

Edenchef
09-29-2015, 11:04 AM
From your mouth to god's ears Foxer.

If they win, I'll celebrate by getting a quality AR-15, or maybe even a Swiss Arms.

Definitely cause for "happy dance till you drop".

Coke
09-29-2015, 06:15 PM
From your mouth to god's ears Foxer.

If they win, I'll celebrate by getting a quality AR-15, or maybe even a Swiss Arms.

I'm with you on that. Maybe a group buy...

RangeBob
10-01-2015, 05:48 AM
from elsewhere

If anyone watched the Munk debate on foreign policy last night, you probably heard Mulcair slam Harper for not signing the UN Arms Trade Treaty.

Foxer
10-01-2015, 10:18 AM
from elsewhere

From this very thread:


I hope everyone noticed that mulcair brought up the international arms treaty (which apperently the fact we haven't signed somehow means isis is getting guns). You can bet that will be the first thing on his agenda if he gets elected, and there's not a damn thing we can do to stop him from signing it.

This sh*t just got real. That's a severe blow to us if they sign it and it doesn't even really require much from the house to make it stick once they do. So it's not 'speculation' any more - if the ndp get in (and probably the libs) you can bet gun owners will pay that price day one.

The libs will sign it just as fast - justin is just smarter about not pissing off gun owners. Then they will use it to attack us left and right, and it will be a royal pain in the butt.

We can't let them win.

DanN
10-01-2015, 10:28 AM
We can't let them win.

We should probably be thinking about a plan of attack to try and stop it if the fit hits the shan and they DO win.. would we have any reasonable courses of action to prevent them from signing it?

Foxer
10-01-2015, 10:46 AM
We should probably be thinking about a plan of attack to try and stop it if the fit hits the shan and they DO win.. would we have any reasonable courses of action to prevent them from signing it?
None.

And it will inevitably be ratified in parliament, the cpc is the only one opposed.

There simply would be no stopping it. We would have to address the individual implimentations they came up with, and that's a losing battle for us. And even if we get the CPC back in after that, the deal is still signed and it would dog us much like the UN marking agreement has - we've stayed ahead of it but it was hanging over us for years.