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Newbgunner
10-21-2015, 04:17 AM
Hey ladies and gents I will be taking my firearms/hunter safety course next month and will be looking into getting a pump 12 for waterfowl hunting. I'm between a moss 500/590 or a rem 870. I will be inheriting my dad's/granddad's break barrel 20 and 12 gauge single shot guns for grouse and small game so they will be covered. Thanks on your opinions.

road kill
10-21-2015, 07:18 AM
I'm pretty much an 870 wingmaster guy, have a 20 and 12 ga. to cover most of my shotgun needs. Easy to maintain and lots of parts available.

Rory McCanuck
10-21-2015, 10:05 AM
I'd say handle both of them, and get which one feels better.
Both are about as reliable a a rock, and you'd have a hard time breaking either of them.
The real difference will be which one you fall in love with.

kennymo
10-21-2015, 10:13 AM
Either or. I grew up on the old man's Mossberg, but I was a complete and total convert the first time I shouldered my 870 Express. Fits like a glove, points like a.....pointing thing? YMMV.

amolkapoor
10-21-2015, 10:32 AM
My vote is for the 500, love the position of the slide release and also the safety. The only downside is Mossberg accessories aren't as easily available as the Remington(or so has been my experience). Look into getting a Mossberg 500 combo, there's different packages for different needs.

Foxer
10-21-2015, 10:40 AM
I have both, and many others.

I will say this from the start - you are equally well served by either gun. There's just little differences that MAY appeal to YOUR taste one way or another. Both are rock solid performers in most cases, so don't bother worrying about 'reliability' or the like, both do fine and the few problems they can have are easily resolved. But - here's the differences, small tho they may be.

The 500 has some advantages - it has double extractors which some people like. That means there's 2 claws pullling the shells instead of one. There have been the occasional problems with the 870 extractors made out of MIM metals - but that's a 17 dollar part to replace if you wind up with one of the 1 in 100,000 guns that has an issue with that. But it's something you'll hear.

The 500 has a top tang safety. A lot of guys like that because it's really easy to use, your thumb is right there. There ARE those who prefer the safety on the trigger the way the 870 has it. That's a personal choice thing and unless you're going into combat it's really neither here nor there.

The biggest difference between the two is that the mossberg shell riser (the part that lifts the shell from the magazine area into the chamber) does NOT sit in the lowered position for loading when the gun is closed. It is up and out of the way. That means that the bottom port where you put the shells into is completely unobstructed and you just slide the shells in - a lot of new shooters find that to be a little easier and faster than the 870, the 870 riser sits low and you have to 'push' it out of the way to load the shells. Now - that makes NO real difference with practice at all, but it is a difference so it's worth mentioning. Some people prefer the lower riser - i kind of like having no riser at all for faster loading but i really don't care.

The 500 action is a little longer than the 870, so for any given barrel length the 500 will be slightly longer. Again - really doesn't make a difference, but there you go. It is nice to have a shorter action in my books, but not enough that i actually care unless i'm building a 'super shorty' and want it as short as i can get it.

The most IMPORTANT thing is fit and feel. There is a slight difference in the drop of comb and such on the stocks - and there's NO way to say which will fit YOU better. You just have to try both, preferably on the range but at the gun store if that's all you can manage. What you're looking for is how the gun 'comes up'. A good fitting shotgun will shoulder to exactly where it should be every time WITHOUT you moving your head. You should be able to look at what you want to shoot, bring the gun up without moving your eyes, and have it be right where you want it every time. That's what shotgunning is all about - it's NOT a rifle. It's more like instinctive shooting with a bow - you AIM a rifle, you POINT a shotgun.

So that should probably be the biggest factor for you. The guns fit differently, and you should see which one fits your body best. That will mean learning how to correctly hold a shotgun and learning good stance - but once you do then go see which of those guns comes up the most perfect for you and that's probably what you want to go with. More than rifles, good fit on a shotgun means more hits, less pain, and better results. You CAN buy stocks for EITHER which modifies how they fit, so if one or the other is really a preference for you then don't worry, you can adjust it later (the magpul stock is supposedly amazing for that and is affordable). But it's nice to start off with a good fitting shotgun day one.

Newbgunner
10-21-2015, 10:50 AM
Thanks guys. I shot a 12 for the first time at 5 years old. It was an old break barrel that kicked like a cow, I've never been kicked by a mule but have a cow hehehehe, then my grandfather let me shoot his browning pump when I was 12 and it was great. They are more pricey so it is why it is off my list. My cousin got both the pump and the semi shotguns (both brownings) from my gandfather. The safety and slide release has me leaning towards the mossberg but I will need to try and shoulder both when my PAL/FAC comes in.

kennymo
10-21-2015, 11:10 AM
The biggest difference between the two is that the mossberg shell riser (the part that lifts the shell from the magazine area into the chamber) does NOT sit in the lowered position for loading when the gun is closed. It is up and out of the way. That means that the bottom port where you put the shells into is completely unobstructed and you just slide the shells in - a lot of new shooters find that to be a little easier and faster than the 870, the 870 riser sits low and you have to 'push' it out of the way to load the shells. Now - that makes NO real difference with practice at all, but it is a difference so it's worth mentioning. Some people prefer the lower riser - i kind of like having no riser at all for faster loading but i really don't care.


Not a problem until you're wearing gloves, then the 870 will try and grab you. In a duck or goose blind it's not really an issue at all. Slip your glove off while loading or wear thin, tight fitting gloves and keep your thumb crooked a little bit so your knuckle is higher than the tip.

C3H8
10-21-2015, 05:18 PM
If you shoot left the mossberg safety is a little nicer. That being said i own the 870 express and love it. If you go Remington check the cap on your magazine tube after a few shots. It likes to loosen off a bit. Mines never popped right off but I've heard it can happen.

CaperJim
10-21-2015, 06:14 PM
I shot a 500 once, didn't care for it at all. My recommendation would be one of the Turkish pumps, they're solid and affordable. But as Foxy said, the fit and handling is what counts most. Maybe try to find someone who owns one you decide on and test it out before you commit to buy.

Newbgunner
10-21-2015, 07:47 PM
Great point fellow Maritimer.

R&R Rancher
10-22-2015, 06:12 AM
Fits like a glove, points like a.....pointing thing?.

Gotta be careful about this, since this is a family forum, but the correct end to the saying involves a stiff portion of the male anatomy. :D

OP, read everything Foxer said. Again. He's got some good advice there. Personally I'd go for the Remington, Which is what one of 'the "R"'s in my handle stands for. When I was starting out, there was no such thing as an express. Just Wingmasters and Mossberg 500's. The Wingmaster was solid and smooth and fit me well. My buddy's Mossberg felt clunky and awkward. If you handle an 870 and you like the feel I'd look for a used 870 Wingmaster with a 30" full choke barrel and then buy a choke tubed equipped barrel for use with steel shot.

Mark-II
10-22-2015, 06:39 AM
Good advice on buying used. You'll get a better gun for the same or less than a new cheapo.

Go to shows - 80% of the guns at the ones here are shotguns. Lucky for me I'm left handed or I'd probably have a dozen by now lol

Foxer
10-22-2015, 11:56 AM
Good advice on buying used. You'll get a better gun for the same or less than a new cheapo.

Go to shows - 80% of the guns at the ones here are shotguns. Lucky for me I'm left handed or I'd probably have a dozen by now lol

True - and as far as used guns go your chances of getting a 'lemon' are about as low as possible with a shotgun. They are simple devices which just tend to work, and when they don't it's cheap parts that are failing like action bars or extractors or the like. GENERALLY you don't see catastrophic type failures like you might in a rifle, where a damaged crown can be an expensive repair and hard to diagnose. FTE's are generally fixed with a new 17 dollar extractor and some chamber polishing. (Or in CaperJim's case, polishing the damn thing out till it's actually the right calibre :) )

So don't fear the used shotgun as much.

Piktas Seskas
10-22-2015, 01:58 PM
I shot a 500 once, didn't care for it at all. My recommendation would be one of the Turkish pumps, they're solid and affordable. But as Foxy said, the fit and handling is what counts most. Maybe try to find someone who owns one you decide on and test it out before you commit to buy.

Depending on your funds available, a Turkish pump may be a decent economical entry into the pump shotgun world. And there is always the "previously loved" option too...

Justice
10-23-2015, 10:59 AM
Between a Mossberg 500/590 or a Rem 870 it's 6 of this, half dozen of the other. Buy the one that fits your budget. Suggest you look into a combo for either one though. Gives you 2 or 3 barrels. Usually a slug barrel and a bird barrel with changeable chokes or a slug barrel and 2 bird barrels.
If aftermarket stuff matters to you, the only choice is the 870. More stuff for them than Carter has pills. Very little for M500's.

SereneCarbine
10-24-2015, 07:08 PM
I own a number of 870s, 590s and Hatsans.

I personally much prefer the 870 and Hatsan platform over the Mossberg's.

FLYBYU44
10-24-2015, 07:22 PM
I have a 870 Supermag, just the cheap synthetic stock and matte finish. I love it! I had a Browning BPS before it, it is a nice gun too, but it never fit me well. The 870 is also much lighter and easier to load. Winchester makes a nice shotgun too, as well as Mossberg. They are all good, you have to find which one fits you good.

Newbgunner
10-26-2015, 09:02 AM
Has anyone heard anything about the Stoeger shotguns? I was looking at some and the P350 in 3.5 in is interesting.

Foxer
10-26-2015, 09:06 AM
Has anyone heard anything about the Stoeger shotguns? I was looking at some and the P350 in 3.5 in is interesting.

Sure - i've owned a few and still have a double in the safe. They are owned by benelli. They're decent quality, about what we've come to expect from the better shotgun suppliers from that part of the world. They've been around for a long time and are pretty well supported. I'm sure like every gun manufacturer some of their models are better 'hits' than others, but i've never had a complaint with mine.

kennymo
10-26-2015, 09:08 AM
Has anyone heard anything about the Stoeger shotguns? I was looking at some and the P350 in 3.5 in is interesting.

Nothing wrong with them as far as I know. I was considering one of their semi autos a while back.... They're related to Benelli somehow, IIRC.

Foxer
10-26-2015, 09:09 AM
Nothing wrong with them as far as I know. I was considering one of their semi autos a while back.... They're related to Benelli somehow, IIRC.

They're wholly owned by benelli. which of course is owned by beretta.

kennymo
10-26-2015, 09:21 AM
They're wholly owned by benelli. which of course is owned by beretta.

That's what I was thinking but couldn't remember for certain. Sort of the 'Maverick' of the Benelli world....

Newbgunner
10-26-2015, 10:13 AM
Thanks. The price and ability to change out the chokes is what I like about them.

Foxer
10-26-2015, 10:14 AM
That's what I was thinking but couldn't remember for certain. Sort of the 'Maverick' of the Benelli world....

LOL :) Yep. Well - one of them. They also own weatherby as well now, which is sort of in between.