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Kobs
10-24-2015, 12:27 PM
The long awaited CCFR site is on and working

https://firearmrights.ca/en/#contact

kennymo
10-24-2015, 12:47 PM
A mission statement of sorts:


Our decades long fight for the simple right to privately and peacefully own firearms is as crucial as it was when the Firearms Act began implementation in the early 90’s. Strangely, as much effort as our community has put forward, we find ourselves again struggling to maintain a legal right to keep our own property. We find ourselves again under attack while we commit no offence to our fellow citizens or country. Why?

Our fight exists on two fronts. First, a political battle to work with and elect governments who understand fundamental human rights such as the right to private property and defense of person. Secondly, and even more importantly, the general population need understand these issues and their implications so that governments focus on correctly meeting the needs of the majority. On this second point we have been failing.

The CCFR is a very different firearm advocacy organization. Our focus is to inform and educate the non gun owning public on how the regulation system works and what laws have an impact on public safety. We will do this through a wide array of outreach programs using method never before deployed by our community. It’s our hope that by offering our expertise, the general public will be in a better position to ask our government for effective policies that would result in better outcomes for all involved.

Please join us in building a safer and more equitable Canada.

Yours Truly,



Rod Giltaca

He does have a way with words, doesn't he?

Coke
10-24-2015, 05:27 PM
Done. And signed up for membership!!!

Foxer
10-24-2015, 06:28 PM
Signed up. I haven't seen everything i need to see to feel as confident as I could about this org yet (no final bylaws or such), but the fact is if we don't take a risk and give 'em a chance, we're never going to get a really good org and we don't have years to wait. Added a small donation too just to get the ball rolling.

Ok Rod - lets see what you guys can do :)

kennymo
10-24-2015, 06:30 PM
Been spreading the word amongst non forum friends.....one sign up already.....

little b
10-24-2015, 06:45 PM
That for the notice, we're in :)

JungleCat
10-24-2015, 09:13 PM
anyone else having problems paying dues on this site? It will not accept my info.
Bob

lvivier
10-24-2015, 10:06 PM
Signed up and donated! And took two more friends to the range (DVC pumpkin shoot) today.

Foxer
10-24-2015, 10:12 PM
anyone else having problems paying dues on this site? It will not accept my info.
Bob

made me pay with paypal - are you having problems with paypal?

JungleCat
10-24-2015, 10:40 PM
made me pay with paypal - are you having problems with paypal?
Yessir
Bob

Foxer
10-25-2015, 12:20 AM
Really - it shouldn't be giving you a hard time. I don't use paypal a lot and it took mine - did you select the 'one time' option or are you trying to set up an account?

Kane63
10-25-2015, 05:09 AM
Signed up. I didn't have any issues with paypal.

CaperJim
10-25-2015, 05:51 AM
One more member here. I hope I made it in for the rifle draw!

Will we be getting fancy cards like NFA and CSSA send out?

JungleCat
10-25-2015, 09:27 AM
Really - it shouldn't be giving you a hard time. I don't use paypal a lot and it took mine - did you select the 'one time' option or are you trying to set up an account?

One time option, Still nadda
Bob

Chard1906
10-25-2015, 09:33 AM
I'm in, and no paypal issues.

Billythreefeathers
10-25-2015, 09:36 AM
I'm in,,, Paypal always takes my money ;)

lets spread the word and make this a recruiting drive

CaperJim
10-25-2015, 10:01 AM
JungleCat - if you can send emt, I will accept one from you and forward the funds via Paypal along with your information to the CCFR

DanN
10-25-2015, 12:55 PM
Family membership purchased.

RangeBob
10-25-2015, 02:00 PM
I hope paypal doesn't seize the contents of their bank account, because they're a firearms org.

Cryptix
10-25-2015, 02:20 PM
Membership, Defense, and a donation to top it all off.

JungleCat
10-25-2015, 02:22 PM
JungleCat - if you can send emt, I will accept one from you and forward the funds via Paypal along with your information to the CCFR

Thanxs for the offer but no thanks. Still cannot get it. My son is coming over for supper tonight I will get him to try. I wonder why there is no contact info for the CCFR
Bob

TheHydrant
10-25-2015, 02:37 PM
I had heard that PayPal was anti gun. Kind of ironic if that's true. I guess being pro-money negates any gun bias

CaperJim
10-25-2015, 02:49 PM
Hopefully he finds a better secure source to receive funds. Paypal fees are pretty high

Calibre
10-25-2015, 03:19 PM
I had heard that PayPal was anti gun. Kind of ironic if that's true. I guess being pro-money negates any gun bias

I've heard that too but their formal stance sounds more like they have liability concerns with being associated with online firearm sales, and thus made it a blanket policy not to touch gun sales. I'm more inclined to blame the litigious culture of the US, since let's face it, that's to blame for most stupid stuff.

Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk

Edenchef
10-25-2015, 03:29 PM
On-board!

JDP
10-25-2015, 06:01 PM
I'm in!

CivilAdvantage
10-25-2015, 06:06 PM
Thanks everyone for the support!!!!

I (we) will do everything possible to make you all proud. We will make a difference. Whether it's enough I don't know but we will try.

Foxer, the bylaws are on the site here: https://firearmrights.ca/en/bylaws/

Been up late all week and had to do a PAL all weekend, I'll be more active tomorrow.

JungleCat
10-25-2015, 06:53 PM
Thanks everyone for the support!!!!

I (we) will do everything possible to make you all proud. We will make a difference. Whether it's enough I don't know but we will try.

Foxer, the bylaws are on the site here: https://firearmrights.ca/en/bylaws/

Been up late all week and had to do a PAL all weekend, I'll be more active tomorrow.
Any chance we can change or add another way to join up without paypal?
Bob

Petamocto
10-25-2015, 07:38 PM
Strange, I chose to pay with credit card, and still got the PayPal receipt email anyway.

hercster
10-25-2015, 08:01 PM
I'm in and I hope I'm the first oldie! Here goes a challenge to all the grandparents out there. Your kids and their kids need some changes and my crystal ball says that this org is the one to back. There were a lot of learning opportunities in the past 1-2 years and everything I've see of Mr. Giltaca and the kinds of people he is likely to work with tell me that they have the formula even though we have seen much yet. Sometimes the oldie's gut is the best indicator of potential success and my gut is very comfortable at this point. The amount of time I have spent on this board tells me that there's a lot of experience and quality in the house. Synergy was one of those 'words of the week' a few years ago. I don't expect unanimity in any group and differences between and among people of good faith are very powerful as long as respect is at the base. I think the members of this forum have demonstrated that the right chemicals are in this room. If enough of the people I'm thinking about get behind Mr. Giltaca et al we have a really good chance of scoring some goals. Really bad PR killed one org recently and a shortage of PR and communication has hurt another group. I think that Rod is more than just a pretty face but there's little doubt that charisma gets attention and if you can get attention you have a chance to sell the product. The product is good and always has been good. Marketing and Sales have ranged from average to abysmal. I for one will be anxious to see and hear more. To say that we need a good campaign at this juncture can't be over stated. I've always been a big fan of quick but meaningful quick wins. If we can make just one small hit at least once a month, a year can add up to great progress. While a tad too folksy, we can learn from small animals that accomplish huge gains. Our friend the beaver is virtually unstoppable because he takes one bite at a time and is incredibly patient and consistent once he has picked out a tree and decided on the direction of the fall. I could give many other examples but then some might accuse me of getting my ears too close to the muzzle. Good luck my friends. Short and well-timed pulls at the paddle can make the canoe fly.

Foxer
10-25-2015, 08:09 PM
Well you do raise an interesting and quite accurate point Hercster. The fact is that our greatest successes have not come with "one big knock out blow" type of thinking, but rather with constant, CONSISTANT, efforts that slowly over time change people's minds. We tracked that a number of ways when we used to have the letters to the editor effort up and running - we'd get letters in front of a million or two people every week, and over the course of a couple of years we saw a slow but very steady and very solid change in people's opinions and started hearing the talking points we were making being repeated back again and again by non gun owners, and it was measurable and powerful. We didn't try to convince anyone in any one letter, we just planted the seeds and offered some facts and over time those took root.

And doing it that way tends to be a lot more long lasting.

The anti's rely on 'one big event', and then push like hell for everyone to get emotional and to take sudden action based on that emotion. We relied on slow steady truth and logic and common sense and repeating that message over and over - and suddenly when events like the moncton shootings happened there WAS no interest in more gun control.

I agree with you - felling the tree like a beaver, one bite at a time, is a wise and effective strategy. Takes longer, doesn't have the flash and excitement of 'no compromise', but it WORKS.

hercster
10-25-2015, 09:26 PM
Rod, please tell us more about the insurance product, the legal advice and defense stuff. What will I get for my $80.00 and how do I find out? And thanks for the supporting words Mr. Foxer. One tactic that works is to publish a target regularly and get that info out to the people like me who will write. For example, for the month of Dec, we will focus on how the community delivers the message on safety to younger people. That's just an example with very little thought. What we need to do is get a single message covered hundreds of times in the media right across the country. That is preferable to a bunch of disjointed letters with no apparent connection. Next month might be how we adhere to safe transportation practices and hammer that 100's of times for a month. Suddenly, without people knowing why, they suddenly have a better understanding of how much effort the community puts into safety, or education or product improvement. ETC. That reinforces Foxer's point on consistency. Advertisers do it all the time and might refer to it as the "broken record" tactic. It might even piss people off but the message grows legs.

RangeBob
10-25-2015, 09:54 PM
Insurance guess
a) http://www.firearmlegaldefence.com/ is $95 per year, but they offer a $10 CSSA discount
b) CSSA/NFA 3rd party liability hunting insurance is about $10 per year



EDIT: oh, there's a page now:


The CCFR offers 3 levels of insurance.

Base insurance.

We are currently working out the details of a basic insurance for members. The details of which will come later….


Legal Advice Insurance

The Firearms Act, Criminal Code and their subordinate regulations can be confusing and overwhelming. That is why we partnered with DAS Canada to offer Legal Advice Insurance (LAI) to firearm owners. With LAI you have unlimited access to qualified lawyers on a firearm legal issue, or any legal issue you may have, even if it is not covered under your policy.

Legal Defense Insurance

The Firearms Act, Criminal Code and their subordinate regulations can be confusing and overwhelming. That is why we partnered with DAS Canada to offer Legal Expense Insurance (LEI) to firearm owners. It provides the ability to defend your legal rights when you inadvertently breach the law.

Coverage includes:

Firearm Offences: We will pay your legal costs to defend your rights if you are being prosecuted for an offence arising out of the use, storage, display, transportation or handling of a firearm.

Firearm Licensing: We will pay your legal costs to represent you in appealing a decision to suspend, revoke or refuse to renew your firearm’s license.

Legal expense insurance offers peace of mind knowing that you can defend your legal rights and expenses will be covered.

-- https://firearmrights.ca/en/insurance/

Zedbra
10-26-2015, 08:39 AM
I signed up my whole family. Thanks Rod.

GTW
10-26-2015, 04:13 PM
Signed up. I haven't seen everything i need to see to feel as confident as I could about this org yet (no final bylaws or such), but the fact is if we don't take a risk and give 'em a chance, we're never going to get a really good org and we don't have years to wait. Added a small donation too just to get the ball rolling.

Ok Rod - lets see what you guys can do :)

Joined today.

glockfan
10-26-2015, 05:09 PM
i've browsed CCFR's site in lenght. i'm sold. membership on the way.

hercster
10-26-2015, 06:19 PM
I know it can work both ways, but how about publishing a membership count regularly. I can't even remember what the application questions were but some demographics could be interesting and useful too in promotional efforts. With the kind of attitude I perceive and the tone of the web page and other public missives, it would be interested to see if we get a good representation from the stronger sex. Good results there can be used to spin recruitment. I think prospective female members would be interested in know that this isn't just another boys club. Getting into the data and making tactical use of it makes sense to me. One poster just said that the whole family joined. That's not only good news but it might be contagious. To Rod et al, if your material doesn't yet elicit demographics, maybe it should. There have been some very clever uses made of similar by political wiseguys.

In an earlier post, I recommended targeted messaging for the public listeners. By that I meant flogging a particular topic in letter or email campaigns. The power of the social media has been demonstrated amply. Having a plugged in youth division might work well. I do suggest that the executive name somebody with responsibility for the younger than me. :-) I know of a couple of very dynamic young women in IPSC that could be very powerful as examples and spokespeople.

That's my encouragement for the evening......

Gord

ROADGLIDE45
10-27-2015, 12:19 PM
Signed up today, I'm in

RangeBob
10-30-2015, 01:34 AM
CCFR Update - We Are Open!!!
Oct 29, 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhlJ1zmm-HY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhlJ1zmm-HY

CivilAdvantage
10-30-2015, 02:43 AM
I'm running out of steam boys!! Organized a Ladies Night event at the gun club tonight, 32 women showed up to shoot. Last bit of volunteer stuff I'll do for a couple of months. Big things coming from the CCFR soon. This week has been great for memberships. To pound out our public awareness campaign we'll need everything we can bring in. Please share our info with everyone you can. More to follow!!

Ninja_Johnny
10-30-2015, 09:13 AM
I'm running out of steam boys!! Organized a Ladies Night event at the gun club tonight, 32 women showed up to shoot. Last bit of volunteer stuff I'll do for a couple of months. Big things coming from the CCFR soon. This week has been great for memberships. To pound out our public awareness campaign we'll need everything we can bring in. Please share our info with everyone you can. More to follow!!

30 Ladies in one night, Rod??? I'm impressed. You must have quite the weapon :D. (and I don't mean gun)
Joined the other day and am working on the 3 other guys on my street who shoot but aren't active on any forums.

TheHydrant
10-30-2015, 03:46 PM
I love the idea of putting out PSA's. Long overdue IMO. Can't wait to see them and I really hope they make it to TV.
I recall that the NRA either put out a Superbowl ad or tried to and it caused a big stink. I don't remember off hand exactly how that all went down.

Foxer
10-30-2015, 03:50 PM
Joined the other day and am working on the 3 other guys on my street who shoot but aren't active on any forums.
Thusly shall our path to victory be forged. We have to get gun owners engaged.

Edenchef
10-30-2015, 04:56 PM
Thusly shall our path to victory be forged. We have to get gun owners engaged.

And bring new people into the sport or at least show them the truth about guns.

Foxer
10-30-2015, 06:19 PM
And bring new people into the sport or at least show them the truth about guns.

Yup. Rod is right, and it's the same thing i've said many times - one of the primary keys to success is winning the fight with the public to get them on our side or at least prevent them from being on the anti's side. If there is no political capital in gun control it won't be something any party is seriously interested in.

telecaster
10-30-2015, 06:44 PM
Signed up and donated.

telecaster
10-30-2015, 06:44 PM
Signed up and donated. Sorry about the double post but can't figure out how to delete one of them.

FALover
10-30-2015, 06:46 PM
Get the swag machines in gear! I need new t-shirts and a decent windbreaker! I have cash! XXL for me and I will become a walking billboard. Send me some flyers and I will hand them out at my local firearms auction and to anyone else I know who needs a kick in the pants to become involved in the future of Canada's shooting sports family!

hercster
10-30-2015, 06:52 PM
Yup. Rod is right, and it's the same thing i've said many times - one of the primary keys to success is winning the fight with the public to get them on our side or at least prevent them from being on the anti's side. If there is no political capital in gun control it won't be something any party is seriously interested in.

Yep. The winning market is in the "massive middle". It's no use preaching to the choir or to the antis. We have to convince all those moms that not only is it OK for little John or Jill to shoot under the "right" conditions but it's actually a good thing! I remember how proud I felt when I went to Boyscout camp and they let me shoot a real gun. Getting one of those badges on our shirts was huge!!

If the current situation was done by social re engineering, then that's what we have to do to reverse the mess. The other thing we need to do much more of is to reach out to the females of all ages. I don't think that too many enlightened men would deny that the wives, moms and even daughters wield enormous power in what goes or doesn't go on the ranch.

Because I used to live in fear of being "outed" where I live with dire consequences, I stayed carefully in the closet. Well the anti next door in my RV park did the very worst she could this summer and was very surprised that her attack went no where.

So I just wrote a lengthy Facebook post about the CCFR and how shooting has changed my life. If you are going to be out, you may as well do it with a bang. One thing I tried carefully to avoid was to bash people who came to their negative opinions honestly. I'm sure that there is a very large number of people that are anti-gun but they aren't sure why. People are people and if something is made to sound bad, particularly on TV or by the faux intelligentsia like Wendy, then it must be true and their heads bob just like the dolls. I sincerely believe we need to educate and convince not bash.

Baddog377
10-30-2015, 10:12 PM
Was at the range today and I noticed a few vacancies in their upcoming PAL/RPAL course sheet. I remembered a buddy who was dithering on getting his license but would not commit to a day, I made a call .............his return text message indicated that himself ,his girlfriend and his father are all signed up for the upcoming course. lol just like that .:) three points ha

JimRowell
10-31-2015, 09:03 AM
Get the swag machines in gear!

I second that! Offer good t-shirts, hats and the like.
You get 3 things from it:
It provides great conversation openers.
Helps normalize being a gun person.
Attracts more members.
Suggest you move on that quickly.

Foxer
10-31-2015, 12:49 PM
I second that! Offer good t-shirts, hats and the like.
You get 3 things from it:
It provides great conversation openers.
Helps normalize being a gun person.
Attracts more members.
Suggest you move on that quickly.

LOL - I agree but geez guys, maybe give him until week TWO to organize a full clothing and swag lineup? :) :) :)

RangeBob
10-31-2015, 01:02 PM
LOL - I agree but geez guys, maybe give him until week TWO to organize a full clothing and swag lineup? :) :) :)

I think they have more important things to do first, before we start wearing their colours.
Wearing their colours indicates pride in their work, and since the goal is to educate 35 million Canadians and they don't have any videos aimed at 35 million Canadians yet, I think the swag is premature on that score as well.
A secondary goal is to get 10000 members. Again swag is premature before that as well -- indeed it may end up costing them money if they make swag before having members who might be interested in purchasing (setup cost overhead), thus swag is premature on that score too.

Now if someone not currently affiliated with CCFR, wants to volunteer to do all this, and put up all the capital, and take no profit, and get mere approval from the board before sale, and create a website etc again without anyone from CCFR doing any work other than approving the apparel, that would be fine. I've seen that happen elsewhere.

FALover
10-31-2015, 04:20 PM
Advertising is part of corporate education. To build awareness there has to be interest. There are many small business's that deal in promotional items on small amount orders. Here is my first suggestion. A t-shirt with the CCFR logo on the front and on the back their mission statement and a QR code. (if they do not have one, get one!). One click with a smart phone and their webpage is introduced with little effort. Keeping things simple is how you get people interested nowadays. Code is on the back so those who might be taken aback with people taking photos of them is limited to your ass end!

JimRowell
11-01-2015, 01:29 PM
Simple tshirts, crests, hats and stickers are widely available in small orders at very low prices.
Advertising is important otherwise it's just more preaching to the choir like all of our other gun orgs do.
We're trying to start conversations, right?
It's not premature if it'll build membership either.

Foxer
11-01-2015, 03:35 PM
Simple tshirts, crests, hats and stickers are widely available in small orders at very low prices.
Advertising is important otherwise it's just more preaching to the choir like all of our other gun orgs do.
We're trying to start conversations, right?
It's not premature if it'll build membership either.
I think you'll find that with any start up situation, there's about 1000 things you could do which would be good ideas, and time to do about 100 of them :)

I'm sure it'll come in time. i'm also sure they've got other things to worry about right now.

Edenchef
11-01-2015, 04:04 PM
I think you'll find that with any start up situation, there's about 1000 things you could do which would be good ideas, and time to do about 100 of them :)

I'm sure it'll come in time. i'm also sure they've got other things to worry about right now.

More volunteers means more gets done....faster.

Foxer
11-01-2015, 04:25 PM
More volunteers means more gets done....faster.

That's true, especially given time. But even organizing the volunteers is a bit of a task at first.

hercster
11-01-2015, 05:06 PM
I can agree with Mr. Foxer as volunteers are harder to manage at any time. Established organizations have or should have policy and procedure for everything and they have enforcement power that is lacking with volunteers. That can mean that that people fly on their own and that can be great or a disaster. I can say with some pride or embarrassment that I can be very difficult to manage at the best of times. Five or so of me could result in suicidal tendencies by all but the most patient of leaders.

Foxer
11-01-2015, 06:16 PM
I can agree with Mr. Foxer as volunteers are harder to manage at any time. Established organizations have or should have policy and procedure for everything and they have enforcement power that is lacking with volunteers. That can mean that that people fly on their own and that can be great or a disaster. I can say with some pride or embarrassment that I can be very difficult to manage at the best of times. Five or so of me could result in suicidal tendencies by all but the most patient of leaders.

It's true. Here's a few pictures of the average volunteer day one:



https://media1.giphy.com/media/10BmVEL8CrPIqI/200.gifhttps://media1.giphy.com/media/OU7akB4CMwg0/200.gifhttps://media3.giphy.com/media/ISumMYQyX4sSI/200.gif

Foxer
11-01-2015, 06:19 PM
And finally - here's one of Rod day three of dealing with that:


https://media2.giphy.com/media/yfYXfIuFz08hO/200.gif

Relic49
11-01-2015, 06:33 PM
HaHaHaHa Your right on the ball tonight Foxer.

XTracker5
11-01-2015, 06:48 PM
That's true, especially given time. But even organizing the volunteers is a bit of a task at first.

It can be like herding cats at first

hercster
11-01-2015, 07:41 PM
I understand that managing teams of female volunteers is the real challenge. I have a friend who looks like he is 140 years old and he's younger than me! :la:

3MTA3
11-01-2015, 07:54 PM
In my experience, without the female volunteers, many volunteer orgs would fall flat on their face-

RangeBob
11-01-2015, 08:58 PM
In my experience, without the female volunteers, many volunteer orgs would fall flat on their face-

In my experience, a pretty woman with a clipboard petition, can get 40 men an hour to sign pretty much anything.
(I always figured that was how the Coalition For Gun Control got those quarter million signatures.)

hercster
11-01-2015, 09:17 PM
In my experience, without the female volunteers, many volunteer orgs would fall flat on their face-

I have no doubt about that at all. In a former life I had a jobs that involved large groups of staff. In the last few years, I helped in a program designed to advance women at the managerial and senior-management level. Some of my group. ( nicely referred to as Herster's angels by some) were dynamite people. After many years of working with a lot of people, some of these women were the best performers by a large margin. The program recruited some women who had graduated with various degrees, were raising young families and then had gone back to school for an Executive MBA. These women were nothing short of remarkable and could out multi task most men any day of the week. By this point they were in their early to mid thirties. They had incredible stamina, superior to most men and were much more reliable than most younger men particularly those who were unmarried. My belief is that it takes having a family to get a lot of men on track without the distractions of "youth". I also found that it wasn't just a matter of gender either as education and ambition made a big difference as did age. By comparison, just a few young women in clerical roles could absorb a huge amount of managerial energy. Of course all generalizations including this one are unreliable. But in many years, I was able to see patterns. IMHO, well-educated women with young children and career ambitions were pretty incredible . Despite my occasional jab in the interest of stirring the pot, I have no uncertainty about the power of the stronger sex.

Kane63
11-02-2015, 08:12 AM
In my experience, a pretty woman with a clipboard petition, can get 40 men an hour to sign pretty much anything.
(I always figured that was how the Coalition For Gun Control got those quarter million signatures.)

Many of the petitions banning dihydrogen monoxide were successful for that very reason.

Anyad Pitchaya
11-02-2015, 11:41 AM
Many of the petitions banning dihydrogen monoxide were successful for that very reason.

Haha...that's funny.

Dihydrogen monoxide has killed many, many people all over the world.

Foxer
11-02-2015, 11:52 AM
Haha...that's funny.

Dihydrogen monoxide has killed many, many people all over the world.

Yeah, we know the joke :)

Ninja_Johnny
11-02-2015, 11:54 AM
My favorite petition was the one sponsored by The Man Show to end women's suffrage:

https://youtu.be/i_L5YH9Qlr4

To get back on track, I agree that the more females, the better. My oldest daughter has been debating with her classmates at Ottawa U about gun control. I was surprised when she told me how many of them agreed that no amount of control will stop the criminal element from using them. I was surprised at the insight of some of their comments, and they are in a VERY social program.

RealDeckard
11-02-2015, 02:34 PM
This group is intriguing. All this talk about rights in an era where we are being scolded to forget about the rights abuses of C-68, High River, etc. and "move on." This is an important conversation. I'll be watching how they look to restore rights, particularly in light of the piecemeal tiptoeing we have seen as the preferred strategy.

Edenchef
11-02-2015, 02:53 PM
This group is intriguing. All this talk about rights in an era where we are being scolded to forget about the rights abuses of C-68, High River, etc. and "move on." This is an important conversation. I'll be watching how they look to restore rights, particularly in light of the piecemeal tiptoeing we have seen as the preferred strategy.

Whining and complaining about past abuses is just, IMHO, a waste of our precious time and energy. Don't you think it's about time we "get over it" and move forward; gently push for changes that will prevent these abuses from happening again? The "no compromise", all or nothing approach did not get us very far, did it? Should we instead, just wallow in our "victimhood", just like a "progressive" and not do anything but whine and cry foul, until they eventually come for our guns and anything else they want to take away?

RealDeckard
11-02-2015, 05:41 PM
Just commenting on the new organization. Advocating for rights seems to go against the conventional 'wisdom' of the gun elites. Not sure how this org's rights advocacy is connected to No Compromise unless "No Compromise!" Is the go-to dig these days.

Edenchef
11-02-2015, 06:13 PM
Just commenting on the new organization. Advocating for rights seems to go against the conventional 'wisdom' of the gun elites. Not sure how this org's rights advocacy is connected to No Compromise unless "No Compromise!" Is the go-to dig these days.

Good comments, RD. While it appears that the "no compromise" org is doing the snake swallowing itself, shtick. And as for the gun elites "conventional wisdom", that really doesn't seem to have worked very well, recently either. IMHO, we will win this war, one person at a time, over the long haul. There is no point in "preaching to the choir", of gun owners or trying to change the rabid gun anti's; this just leaves the uninformed, uncommitted masses of ordinary Canadians. Rod G. has a real talent for gently challenging ordinary peoples preconceived ideas and getting them to think for themselves, rather than just accepting the MSM's biased anti-gun reporting, as truth. This new org will take the battle into the trenches, I believe, where the ordinary folks are. We don't necessarily need to change these folks into supporters; we just need to wake them up to the incredible dishonesty of the MSM and the anti's, in pushing their agenda and start them thinking for themselves, questioning every gun story for the whole truth. We need to reverse years of "social engineering" the minds of our youth, by anti-gun "educators". It has taken years for the anti-gunners to get the pendulum over to their side, I believe that this rights advocacy org will be the way to swing it back. JMHO.

RealDeckard
11-02-2015, 06:23 PM
I look forward to it. In every other nation in every other context we could assert how rights are important. I can't see how so many can rail against C-51 while joyfully seeing us ground to bits. Mind you I can't see why any gun owner would turn a blind eye to our abuses and accept the Liberal notion that we have no rights whatsoever.

Foxer
11-02-2015, 07:13 PM
I look forward to it. In every other nation in every other context we could assert how rights are important. I can't see how so many can rail against C-51 while joyfully seeing us ground to bits. Mind you I can't see why any gun owner would turn a blind eye to our abuses and accept the Liberal notion that we have no rights whatsoever.

Well it's simple. Many get more of a 'thrill' out of the whole 'no compromise' chest beating than they do actually achieving anything. It feels good to 'fling your defiance' in the face of your "oppressors' and such. And i'ts much easier to do than actually achieving anything. :) These 'gun elites' as you say (tho i don't like terms like that) tend to enjoy confrontation and activity over achievement.

Conversely, you get those who prefer to complain about how it's impossible to do anything so why bother trying. Those people excuse their inaction and unwillingness to get involved by claiming nothing they do will ever have any impact. Which is entirely untrue. You used to see a lot more of that before we killed the LGR - those were the folk who would constantly say there's no point we'll never get rid of the gun registry etc etc. Then we did, and some of those people felt compelled to shut up a little :)

I really don't know what you mean about 'every other nation and every other context'. In ANY context, a man has the rights that he is able to clearly articulate and is willing and able to defend one way or another - no more no less.

In any case, making changes to our rights as defined under Canadian constitutional laws requires a change to the constitution or charter, which is a little beyond our scope right now. We CAN however change the laws, and that's done one step at a time working with both the public and the gov'ts. Rod's org is going to attempt to take on the public, and that's a big step forward. If the public is on side or at least neutral as far as gun control goes, then there's little value in the gov't putting a LOT of effort into coming after us. And it'll be much easier to get positive law changes made when we put the CPC back in - if we do our job right in that department.

RangeBob
11-02-2015, 07:19 PM
In every other nation in every other context we could assert how rights are important.

To my mind CCFR is going to explain what gun owners have to do, what the law is, the hoops required for the privilege.

None of that is about rights.

I expect chats about rights, starting with property rights and possible constitutional change while they're meech-lake style negotiating about senate reform, begin with letters&comments from us, and any other org other than CCFR.

Deuce-deuce
11-02-2015, 07:40 PM
Paypal? You've got to be kidding!