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Wickit
01-26-2016, 05:52 AM
On the fence can anyone give me a good reason to renew my NFA or am I wasting my coin. Seriously considering CSSA or CCFR

kennymo
01-26-2016, 06:49 AM
I dropped them last year, kept my CSSA, sunk the NFA money into CCFR....

Doug_M
01-26-2016, 06:51 AM
I think you'd be wasting your coin. There would need to be a lot of personnel change, a lot, for it to become a healthy org again. There are lots of orgs these days and the two you mentioned are "worthy" in my opinion. It is a shame about the NFA but I don't think they will ever truly recover. The bulk of their membership will be those "old timers" who aren't on the 'net or social media and are blissfully unaware of the meltdown that happened last year.

RobertMcC
01-26-2016, 07:03 AM
I'm too lazy to drop my NFA membership to get the 10$ I might get back. I just wont renew next year. I dunno how I never got a letter saying I broke bylaws and such.

sk8r
01-26-2016, 07:29 AM
I gave up on them 2 years ago. Go with CSSA.

Petamocto
01-26-2016, 07:39 AM
I am somewhat biased, but my answer may surprise you.

I have made my choice that the CCFR is the right fit for me, and that it has the highest probability of the orgs to achieve the ends we're all looking for as gun owners.

That said, the means we in the CCFR use are not for everyone. In taking a more balanced approach, understanding that we need to have a dialogue with all political parties and police, some in the community see that as treasonous or defeatism. Further, we understand that it's likely a reality in Canada that we're always going to have some basic forms of control (ie, what you've already gone through to get your PAL). We're trying to change what you can do after you get your PAL.

If you find yourself at odds with those sorts of beliefs, then the NFA may be a better fit for you. Yes they've gone through some turmoil, but if the "no compromise" "from my cold dead hands" type of messaging appeals to you, you're going to get that from the NFA and not the CCFR.

SIR VEYOR
01-26-2016, 07:44 AM
On the fence can anyone give me a good reason to renew my NFA or am I wasting my coin. Seriously considering CSSA or CCFR

Well, if they honestly can they tell you what % of your money is going to the usefulness of of the organization and what % is being spent on internal lawsuits over general ass-hattery, you'd have your answer.

I prefer to spend my $ for ass-hattery in ways other than giving it to an org.

Kane63
01-26-2016, 09:39 AM
CCFR, NRA, CSSA. Never again will I send money to the NFA.

Foxer
01-26-2016, 09:46 AM
The NFA is largely dead and has become irrelevant. Even if they fixed their problems now, their structure is such that the problems will keep reoccurring. And they've really burned their credibility with the CPC, so even if they did get their act together it would be years before they were of any real use. And i don't see them getting their act together any time soon.

Lets also remember that org's leader ran against the CPC last election and the org basically trashed the CPC for many months before. It's kind of hard to come back from that and work with the CPC moving forward.

Billythreefeathers
01-26-2016, 10:15 AM
CCFR,,

amolkapoor
01-26-2016, 10:44 AM
If you're just getting the yearly membership, which I believe is about $40 each, I would recommend CSSA and CCFR, for a total of $80-ish for the whole year. I won't use the daily cost of coffee example, but most of us do pay more than that in tips to waiters for serving us deep fried frozen food or to bartenders for pouring something from a bottle into a glass ;D

I like the combination of having one group talking quietly to politicians to find reasonable solutions(CSSA) and another rightly informing the general public that we are normal hardworking taxpayers(CCFR).

awndray
01-26-2016, 10:47 AM
http://www.gunownersofcanada.ca/showthread.php?15279-Too-Much-Infighting

RangeBob
01-26-2016, 11:01 AM
I was a member of CSSA, NFA for years.
I'm now a member of CSSA, CCFR.

I debated keeping the NFA, to get their magazine, because I like seeing what Gary Mauser's found lately in his articles -- but I decided to drop the NFA for a year, and revisit the idea in 2016 Q4.

murph83
01-26-2016, 11:19 AM
I went with CCFR, I think that a balanced approach to our cause will work out best for us going forward." No Compromise" " From my cold dead hands" sound tough, but we will get laughed at if we keep that up.

Ninja_Johnny
01-26-2016, 11:30 AM
If you're just getting the yearly membership, which I believe is about $40 each, I would recommend CSSA and CCFR, for a total of $80-ish for the whole year. I won't use the daily cost of coffee example, but most of us do pay more than that in tips to waiters for serving us deep fried frozen food or to bartenders for pouring something from a bottle into a glass ;D

I like the combination of having one group talking quietly to politicians to find reasonable solutions(CSSA) and another rightly informing the general public that we are normal hardworking taxpayers(CCFR).

^^^ This.
I'm also a member of both.

RobertMcC
01-26-2016, 11:52 AM
I was a member of CSSA, NFA for years.
I'm now a member of CSSA, CCFR.

I debated keeping the NFA, to get their magazine, because I like seeing what Gary Mauser's found lately in his articles -- but I decided to drop the NFA for a year, and revisit the idea in 2016 Q4.

Did like the bubba No4 article.

Next year will continue with CSSA and then join CCFR.

TJSpeller
01-26-2016, 01:18 PM
Long time CSSA member, and I joined CCFR as well. I belong to those two.

I was an NFA member until last year. I even bought memberships for other gun owners. What a waste. But I'm so done with that.

NFA is finished. Don't waste your money like I did.

Swampdonkey
01-26-2016, 01:21 PM
The BCWF has a very active firearm freedom wing, and best represents my interests.

The CCFR is too politically correct for my taste.

mlehto
01-26-2016, 01:56 PM
Foxer git it right.

The NFA is a joke at this point and Sheldon Clair is the biggest joke in the firearms community and politics for that matter.

Foxer
01-26-2016, 02:00 PM
The NFA is a joke at this point and Sheldon Clair is the biggest joke in the firearms community and politics for that matter.
Yes, he is the biggest joke in politics. And given our circumstances right now, as you can imagine that was up against some pretty stiff competition :)

Gunexpert007
01-26-2016, 02:04 PM
Well, if they honestly can they tell you what % of your money is going to the usefulness of of the organization and what % is being spent on internal lawsuits over general ass-hattery, you'd have your answer.

I prefer to spend my $ for ass-hattery in ways other than giving it to an org.


That is always the question that I ask myself when donating to any organization or group ; just where is the money going . How much money is being used to further the cause , and how much money is going to travel , meals , personal expense accounts , lawsuits , etc.....it is always a tough call as an organization may start with good intentions ; but then becomes a cash cow for the select few at the top of the organization.....

Wickit
01-27-2016, 12:16 AM
Thanks guys I have an email in to the NFA so far no reply.

lone-wolf
01-27-2016, 12:28 AM
NFA still has some good people under their banner. I'd say join them all.

LB303
01-27-2016, 03:12 AM
My NFA membership was up for renewal the week after the AGM. After viewing that debacle, I placed them on indefinite 'time out'.
All that has happened since then hasn't helped. I feel like I'd be financing their boardroom battles instead of initiatives on our behalf.

CSSA has always been a little different in their approach, working quietly - I feel that Tony could be a pretty good politician in his own right, and this gets him some cred on the Hill. Look who got to share screen time with Blaney when C-42 came to pass.

I support CCFR because they seem pragmatic, and Rod has a pleasant professional manner that puts people at ease. I'm willing to try new things, so let's see where this goes... constructive outreach is good, I'm hoping it yields better results than 'no compromise' which hasn't yielded any

blacksmithden
01-27-2016, 08:46 AM
After watching the circus unfold for a few weeks, I picked up the membership renewal form off the coffee table and placed it in the fireplace.

RobertMcC
01-27-2016, 09:03 AM
Foxer git it right.

The NFA is a joke at this point and Sheldon Clair is the biggest joke in the firearms community and politics for that matter.

The other site was great they finally got rid of Clair and Higgons, Deleted NFA from their site because got tired of them.

Foxer
01-27-2016, 10:50 AM
NFA still has some good people under their banner. I'd say join them all.

I agree that they do. Actually some really good people. But - that banner is toast, those people need to look for new opportunities to participate and bring their skills into the fight under a new banner.

glockfan
01-27-2016, 10:55 AM
That is always the question that I ask myself when donating to any organization or group ; just where is the money going . How much money is being used to further the cause , and how much money is going to travel , meals , personal expense accounts , lawsuits , etc.....it is always a tough call as an organization may start with good intentions ; but then becomes a cash cow for the select few at the top of the organization.....



that is exactly my dilemna. personally, i have enough of the mellow tractations leading nowhere behind the curtains between a deaf GVT and some voiceless parrots.

this tactic has been put forward since 25-30 years with nearly 0 results except the removal of the LGR but even there, it's a plaster on a broken bone which is what really is C68 .

i know the liberals are UN's sheeps, so no surprizes , gains will be scarce for couple years even with the lowest homicid rate ever seen . the turd and dion's are blind sheeps sold out to the UN,nothing new here, the libs are so eager to pocket the UN money .

so why pitching some money to helpless organisations ?

only because it helps falling asleep when i go to bed .

awndray
01-27-2016, 11:14 AM
If you honestly believe that these organizations haven't played a significant role over the years, then you may as well hand over your guns and license to the nearest cop shop and stop complaining about the state of gun ownership in this country.

glockfan
01-28-2016, 12:22 AM
If you honestly believe that these organizations haven't played a significant role over the years, then you may as well hand over your guns and license to the nearest cop shop and stop complaining about the state of gun ownership in this country.

don't worry...you're about to, like all of us, exactly because the legendary lack of attitude at raising and carrying the facts and numbers pleading against worthless anti gun legislations . the only ones who spoke loud enough for us to be heard were shawn bevins and claude colgan . he and colgan were the only ones who instilled a wind of change,so much that they've been sidelined .

attitude hasn't lacked in the anti rethorics in the last 2 decades. they made ground by spitting their demagogic rhetorics in our face . we, at best, we barely kept a fragile statu quo even if the facts speaks loudly for us .

Foxer
01-28-2016, 01:14 AM
don't worry...you're about to, like all of us, exactly because the legendary lack of attitude at raising and carrying the facts and numbers pleading against worthless anti gun legislations . the only ones who spoke loud enough for us to be heard were shawn bevins and claude colgan . he and colgan were the only ones who instilled a wind of change,so much that they've been sidelined .

attitude hasn't lacked in the anti rethorics in the last 2 decades. they made ground by spitting their demagogic rhetorics in our face . we, at best, we barely kept a fragile statu quo even if the facts speaks loudly for us .

If i had to contrive a statement that was as diametrically opposite to the truth as possible - it would probably be that one.

sbe
01-28-2016, 01:49 AM
I am having similar issue, I want to support an organization in Canada and have in the past but right now it does not appear one represents myself, so I am a lifetime NRA member and spend rest on local wildlife federation.

I don't think I am that extreme in my positions but for me the cssa is not vocal enough and appears willing to take step backs for the greater good (this is just my opinion based on comments they have made - I hope I have misinterpreted).

The CCFR I am not there yet as based on some comments they don't appear to have the position of stand and fight - what that means is we will only accept moving forward - small increments are fine but no back steps at all. I have no issue talking with all parties. I want there to be a political cost to all MP's just like how both republican and democrates respect the power of the NRA. Maybe they will end up closer to this or maybe not.

I am looking for an organization that believes in fact based laws and rules and is not limited to what they think the public will currently accept. If you limit yourself to that and you don't have a long term plan to make guns more acceptable you have no chance to break down the barriers - in US CCW is relatively new it was once thought to be unacceptable but now is everywhere and now you see the US moving to make suppresors more acceptable (they are saying it is safety equipment) all leading to eventually reducing regulation.

I have hope CCFR may be closer to my ideal but right now they appear to have set some internal limits to what they think is possible in Canada and that is not a good place to start in my opinion.

Foxer
01-28-2016, 01:59 AM
I am having similar issue, I want to support an organization in Canada and have in the past but right now it does not appear one represents myself, so I am a lifetime NRA member and spend rest on local wildlife federation.

I don't think I am that extreme in my positions but for me the cssa is not vocal enough and appears willing to take step backs for the greater good (this is just my opinion based on comments they have made - I hope I have misinterpreted).

The CCFR I am not there yet as based on some comments they don't appear to have the position of stand and fight - what that means is we will only accept moving forward - small increments are fine but no back steps at all. I have no issue talking with all parties. I want there to be a political cost to all MP's just like how both republican and democrates respect the power of the NRA. Maybe they will end up closer to this or maybe not.

I am looking for an organization that believes in fact based laws and rules and is not limited to what they think the public will currently accept. If you limit yourself to that and you don't have a long term plan to make guns more acceptable to break down the barriers - in US CCW is relatively new it was once thought to be unacceptable but now is everywhere and now you see the US moving to make suppresors more acceptable (they are saying it is safety equipment) all leading to eventually reducing regulation.

I have hope CCFR may be closer to my ideal but right now they appear to have set some internal limits to what they think is possible in Canada and that is not a good place to start in my opinion.

You have to look at the merits of each org and what they do. Sometimes what you're going for is a combination, rather than a single ideal.

THe wildlife federations are great orgs and deserve support (depending on the province, i'm thinking you're in bc :) ). But while they do some gun advocacy stuff, their focus is elsewhere. love them for what they are, but that's what they are.

The CSSA is kind of likewise a 'specialist' org. Now - i know they paint themselves as a strong voice in ottawa for gunowners and as an advocacy group. And they do a little of that. But they are CLEARLY not geared to make that their focus. They do a lot of great work with the ranges - ranges we need to stay up and running if we're going to continue to grow our sport. They have a role to play and if that role is important to you then toss them some love - but it's important to know they are not positioning themselves and the canada version of the NRA or anything like that. THey're focused on their membership and their core competency, not being the leadership org for all gun owners.

The CCFR is NOT intended to be an advocacy group in the sense of being leaders or a gun lobby either. It's goal is educating the public. I cannot stress this enough - that role is CRUCIAL and has been a little neglected in recent years. We desperately need an org out there doing that and doing it well. I have some faith they will grow into that org and be something exciting. But that is their role and god knows we need it, they are not the 'ideal' org nor are they intended to be, nor are they likely to take 'hard line' positions because that's not why they are there.

I'm afraid at this time there really isn't a major leadership 'org' that has taken up the mantle of being the voice of gun owners in canada in the sense of being the main lobby group. We'll have to see how things evolve, and there ARE issue specific grass roots projects that pop up from time to time and deserve much support.

But don't let the fact that some of the orgs like the cssa or CCFR are not intended to be 'that' org hold you back from supporting them or aiding them - they still do very important work. And don't forget the cpc as well - the more we work with them the better.

awndray
01-28-2016, 05:13 AM
don't worry...you're about to, like all of us, exactly because the legendary lack of attitude at raising and carrying the facts and numbers pleading against worthless anti gun legislations . the only ones who spoke loud enough for us to be heard were shawn bevins and claude colgan . he and colgan were the only ones who instilled a wind of change,so much that they've been sidelined .

attitude hasn't lacked in the anti rethorics in the last 2 decades. they made ground by spitting their demagogic rhetorics in our face . we, at best, we barely kept a fragile statu quo even if the facts speaks loudly for us .
Don't blame the orgs. Blame yourself.

Doug_M
01-28-2016, 05:54 AM
Don't blame the orgs. Blame yourself.

I blame GMO's and global warming.

awndray
01-28-2016, 05:59 AM
Don't forget video games.

Kenwp
01-28-2016, 06:16 AM
That fellow they had run it for so many years from Alberta soured me on ever joining the organization. All he ever did was spout off on how the system didn't work but never said how to fix it.

RangeBob
01-28-2016, 07:18 AM
Don't forget video games.

And apparently today, antidepressants (http://www.gunownersofcanada.ca/showthread.php?28843-Antidepressants-linked-to-aggression-and-suicide-in-young-people-study-says) and hallucinogenic coyotes (http://www.gunownersofcanada.ca/showthread.php?28841-Coyote-“Attacks”-in-CA-Possibly-Linked-to-Hallucinogenic-Mushrooms).

kennymo
01-28-2016, 07:36 AM
Fricken space coyotes.....

Petamocto
01-28-2016, 08:52 AM
Fricken space coyotes.....

http://www.bubbleblabber.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/bears.jpg

Code-Red
01-28-2016, 07:23 PM
NFA is dead, done, and gone. If I ever have an extra $40 burning a hole in my pocket, it'll be another contribution to CCFR. NFA will be using absolutely none of my money to pay for Sheldon Claires personal endeavours.

sbe
01-28-2016, 08:27 PM
P
You have to look at the merits of each org and what they do. Sometimes what you're going for is a combination, rather than a single ideal.

THe wildlife federations are great orgs and deserve support (depending on the province, i'm thinking you're in bc :) ). But while they do some gun advocacy stuff, their focus is elsewhere. love them for what they are, but that's what they are.

The CSSA is kind of likewise a 'specialist' org. Now - i know they paint themselves as a strong voice in ottawa for gunowners and as an advocacy group. And they do a little of that. But they are CLEARLY not geared to make that their focus. They do a lot of great work with the ranges - ranges we need to stay up and running if we're going to continue to grow our sport. They have a role to play and if that role is important to you then toss them some love - but it's important to know they are not positioning themselves and the canada version of the NRA or anything like that. THey're focused on their membership and their core competency, not being the leadership org for all gun owners.

The CCFR is NOT intended to be an advocacy group in the sense of being leaders or a gun lobby either. It's goal is educating the public. I cannot stress this enough - that role is CRUCIAL and has been a little neglected in recent years. We desperately need an org out there doing that and doing it well. I have some faith they will grow into that org and be something exciting. But that is their role and god knows we need it, they are not the 'ideal' org nor are they intended to be, nor are they likely to take 'hard line' positions because that's not why they are there.

I'm afraid at this time there really isn't a major leadership 'org' that has taken up the mantle of being the voice of gun owners in canada in the sense of being the main lobby group. We'll have to see how things evolve, and there ARE issue specific grass roots projects that pop up from time to time and deserve much support.

But don't let the fact that some of the orgs like the cssa or CCFR are not intended to be 'that' org hold you back from supporting them or aiding them - they still do very important work. And don't forget the cpc as well - the more we work with them the better.

No not BC I am in the last conservative province out west and working to keep it that way in 2016. Unfortunately I ended up federally in Ralph's riding. I am still considering CCFR but yes i still send money when I can to CPC.