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View Full Version : custom VS factory for long range ?



glockfan
04-29-2016, 06:09 PM
like the title say, i'm on the market for a precision bolt action rifle for long range action (500 to 1000yards) . i already knows it's gonna be in 300WM, and no, i don't care about the fact 300wm is kind of a barrel killer compared to a 308.

my custom build would look like:

stiller tac 300 action
26''benchmark BB...no brake (i shoot like 50 rifles of every calibers everyday during the hunting season, recoil is not a factor )
aics stock OR the new cadex competition stock
jewell 2 stage trigger

all this would drives me to close to 5000$ without optics

now, my problem here is people warns me , a custom rifle has no value on resale , and the other factor is , i've been told i could get as much precision with a factory rifle out of the box like the TRG or a complete rifle from AI .

also, i fear a factory rifle might loose accuracy once the barrel gets a little hot ( as ususal with factory sportster barrels ) whereas the custom may display more endurance in that matter.

what's your take about this brainstorming ?

DILLIGAF
04-29-2016, 06:19 PM
I was in the same boat and just got a Cadex CDX riffle. Ive been 100% satisfied so far :-) And A friend has a PGW :-) We both enjoy shooting since thats what it all about.

Still at 5K tho :evil1: and resale value in precision rigs is horrible,,,lol... Buy a used one that way you can save a couple thou.

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12801626_10154037071708552_7882251549013652809_n.j pg?oh=8ba9d5f5ff57d681b2e597cf90d7b2b6&oe=579D2965

glockfan
04-29-2016, 06:25 PM
I was in the same boat and just got a Cadex CDX riffle. Ive been 100% satisfied so far :-) And A friend has a PGW :-) We both enjoy shooting since thats what it all about.

Still at 5K tho :evil1:

is it your opinion that , custom is the way to go when the requirements are

1-extreme accuracy (.5moa and less)
2-endurance-reliability

??

also, do you think the factory assembly is way much better than what a competent gunsmith can achieve on his best day ?

glockfan
04-29-2016, 06:38 PM
I was in the same boat and just got a Cadex CDX riffle. Ive been 100% satisfied so far :-) And A friend has a PGW :-) We both enjoy shooting since thats what it all about.

Still at 5K tho :evil1: and resale value in precision rigs is horrible,,,lol... Buy a used one that way you can save a couple thou.

https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12801626_10154037071708552_7882251549013652809_n.j pg?oh=8ba9d5f5ff57d681b2e597cf90d7b2b6&oe=579D2965

pffft...my god, that is veeeery nice. that is exactly what i'm dreaming of....the PGW spiral fluted barrel is a beauty

Ben
05-01-2016, 07:02 AM
OP

What rifle(s) are you currently using for your long range shooting?

re resale: if someone is willing to spend $5 or more on the rifle alone, resale value shouldn't be a consideration, unless you are going into this all on credit and stretching the budget to borderline insanity in thinking that "if things goes sideways at work I can always rely on the idea of selling a $5k rifle for....$5k".

re barrel warming up: that will be the case with any barrels. The question is, why you would want to get a barrel so hot (in the 1st place) and continue shooting. Goes against the idea of precision and accuracy shooting.

Really comes down to what your total budget for this will be and if you want it personalize to your exact requirements or not.

Good luck Op

VooDoo
05-01-2016, 07:53 AM
Can't go wrong with this gem from Accuracy Int'l :

Accuracy International AW .300 Win Mag 26" Fluted Barrel
https://www.wolverinesupplies.com/images/items/Fullsize/AI1R11261.jpg?t=635967613816300093

glockfan
05-01-2016, 01:53 PM
Can't go wrong with this gem from Accuracy Int'l :

Accuracy International AW .300 Win Mag 26" Fluted Barrel
https://www.wolverinesupplies.com/images/items/Fullsize/AI1R11261.jpg?t=635967613816300093

i like the fact we can change the look with viper skins. not a great fan of the thumbhole stock while most feel very good in my hand, it's more a matter of look. i think i'm more appealed by the at one with the pistol grip....as i said it's more about the look than function, both style work great. i wonder which is the heaviest.

http://www.accuracyinternational.us/wordpress1/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/AT308.jpg

Run 'n' Gun
05-02-2016, 09:33 AM
Mine is kind of a hybrid, I started with Remington 700 Varmint SPS in .308 , tossed the stock and trigger in the garbage and added a MacMillian A3 and a Timney set @ 2lbs. With factory match ammo and a about 100 rounds to season the barrel I am down to just over .5 MOA. The gunsmith also pillar bedded it and trued the recoil lug. I think I'm into it for under $2K without the glass.

You can probably find a Remington 5R Mil spec in 300WM, I still come across them on line from time to time. I think this is a good starting point, no sense dropping $3-4 K and finding out it's not your thing.

Justice
05-02-2016, 12:01 PM
Custom vs factory doesn't make any difference except at trade in time. You still have to work up the load. And what you think is absolutely necessary another guy may not.
If someone is willing to spend 5 grand or more on the rifle it's 5 grand they'll never see again. The market for rifles costing that much is extremely limited and it's only worth 5 grand to you and the guy who built it when it's new. Isn't worth 5 grand, used, to anybody. However, if you have the 5 grand to spend on a rifle, its resale value isn't a consideration.
Factory sportster barrels are not used on target rifles.

glockfan
05-02-2016, 05:55 PM
like some suggested , i'm looking at the used market ATM...i realize the resale value of a custom build is heart cracking. NOT that i already plan selling it on reception....but in life you never know what is waiting for you and your finances .

now, if i don't find a custom close to my specs in the used market, i'm gonna go forward with the project and i'll do my own build. in this precise case i'm pretty much set on the new competition stock from cadex and the stiller tac 300 action. i elected the benchmark barrel because my smith told me he's impressed by this company and the consistency of the QC of the metal used for their barrel . otherwise i'm willing to bend a bit if i find some lightly used custom rifle in 300wm. i suspect people going that route don't consider selling knowing the resale value for such firearm isn't the best , but as i said no one knows what life has in stock for you and sometimes you have to put the nicest toys you have for sale.

also, considering i want the best possible accuracy , from the infos i gatered ,when precision is the 1st requirement, custom is the way to go. factory rifle, you can get a '''good one,or a dud'''' .

Ben
05-03-2016, 07:56 AM
Glockfan - I posed this question earlier in the tread: what rifle(s) are you currently using for your long range shooting (and in which discipline(s) do you shoot?) that has taken you down the route of a) selecting/be dead firm on the 300WM, b) barrel choice and c) stock/platform choice.

From your original OP, I'm going to assume that you work at a range or a LGS and your primary task is to sight in hunting rifles (when you said "i shoot like 50 rifles of every calibers everyday during the hunting season, recoil is not a factor") for customers correct? If that is the case, then your pool of rifles against which you are making your choices is flawed and this for many reasons.

Not to be picky on your comments, but looks should be secondary to performance and functions..

As for factory files, some being good and some being duds, which brand and model are you referring too? AI's? PGW's? TRG's?

glockfan
05-03-2016, 09:11 AM
Glockfan - I posed this question earlier in the tread: what rifle(s) are you currently using for your long range shooting (and in which discipline(s) do you shoot?) that has taken you down the route of a) selecting/be dead firm on the 300WM, b) barrel choice and c) stock/platform choice.

From your original OP, I'm going to assume that you work at a range or a LGS and your primary task is to sight in hunting rifles (when you said "i shoot like 50 rifles of every calibers everyday during the hunting season, recoil is not a factor") for customers correct? If that is the case, then your pool of rifles against which you are making your choices is flawed and this for many reasons.

Not to be picky on your comments, but looks should be secondary to performance and functions..

As for factory files, some being good and some being duds, which brand and model are you referring too? AI's? PGW's? TRG's?

well, as i said, i'm working for an outdoor range since years.

i shoot various rifles of all calibers from every existing models and i've got the bug for long range action only recently .

i have access to a 500 to 1000 yards range .

reason i haven't been appealed before today is ....well, since my job is to shoot ,fix, scope trouble shoot many rifles every day during a short period span, when i get out of there the last thing i want is to shoot inaccurate rifles lollll. ....however, in the last few months i've caught the bug and decided i want a dead accurate and built like a tank rifle haha! .

then,reviewing my experience with specific rifles , it lead me in some directions ; i noticed along the years that except the semi custom builder's units, most generic factory firearms aren't for me,because i developped a hate for anything who isn't dead accurate, and this correspond to most generic rifle and sportster barrels,even some with bull barrels although this is more related to bedded-not bedded stock quite often (sometimes the ammo not suited to a particular riflng twist as well ).

you mentionned PGW,AI,CADEX...to me, these specific brands aren't in the same ballpark than TRG's ,T3's ,savages 12 ,10's and such which i consider mass produced and generic rifles .

not that i consider the semi custom offers not consistent enough for me in their fit from the factory, but i want something with the best fit, the tactical look and i absolutly want a folding stock.

i shoot IPSC quite a lot(not related to long range action i know) , and i got the luck to shoot various rifle for informal long range shooting. otherwise i shoot 300yard max at my job, that's it.

my perception being that when you build your own, the quality of the build sure has to see with the components used, but for the most part it rests into the gunsmith who is doing the assembly .i'm i right?

oh...and as for 300wm VS 308...well, it's just that i want more kick from each round i shoot as i have 0 problems handling the recoil, and honestly, i can shoot 338's and 300's without muzzle brake all day long....not that i want to look cocky with this statement, but i don't know....that's how it is, i have a good shoulder, and i'm bored with the 308 little snap, i need a round that kick me enough to light up the fun, and really, barrel lifespan isn't a factor.

Ben
05-03-2016, 09:33 AM
1) CADEX is a brand new manufacturer and haven't proven themselves yet.
2) You can most definitely move TRG w/ the PGW and AI list...including it with a Savage is pretty funny.
3) You want a folder, which is a good feature to have for compact transportation requirements, but this is a look-based-need rather than a requirement in your case. It IS your money however - I'm just pointing out that it doesn't ad ANYTHING to your ultimate goal, which is getting the most accurate and precise rifle ever built.

glockfan
05-03-2016, 09:43 AM
1) CADEX is a brand new manufacturer and haven't proven themselves yet.
2) You can most definitely move TRG w/ the PGW and AI list...including it with a Savage is pretty funny.
3) You want a folder, which is a good feature to have for compact transportation requirements, but this is a look-based-need rather than a requirement in your case. It IS your money however - I'm just pointing out that it doesn't ad ANYTHING to your ultimate goal, which is getting the most accurate and precise rifle ever built.


you get this all wrong. i'm definitely not placing savage in the same league as AI,PGW,CADEX AT ALL.

if i was in the market for an accurate generic rifle, savage would be in the 1st spot right there with tikka's and sako. not more. the point here being i want an action thick and bulky enough for ''hot'' rounds being shot in a row....you know, i'm not the kind of guy who hit a range to shoot 1 round only each 5 minutes. i want to be able to shoot as many rounds as i want without exageration of course.

now, make your point about the whole topic, and put your suggestions down right here, i'm highly interested to hear what your thoughts are...not about you judging my point of view.

awndray
05-03-2016, 09:56 AM
if i was in the market for an accurate generic rifle, savage would be in the 1st spot right there with tikka's and sako. not more.
#1? I like my Savages, but I wouldn't pin it at the top of the list when compared to Tikka and especially Sako.

If you're looking at factory offerings, have you considered the Ruger Precision rifle?


the point here being i want an action thick and bulky enough for ''hot'' rounds being shot in a row....you know, i'm not the kind of guy who hit a range to shoot 1 round only each 5 minutes. i want to be able to shoot as many rounds as i want without exageration of course.

Brand name won't make a difference here. Science doesn't care about labels. Barrels are relatively cheap. If you plan on shooting as much as you think you are, you'll want to look into the cost of swapping barrels. As far as I know, Savage will give you an edge in this department.

Your first step is to determine what your budget is. That's the only way anyone here will be able to make a recommendation.

glockfan
05-03-2016, 10:38 AM
#1? I like my Savages, but I wouldn't pin it at the top of the list when compared to Tikka and especially Sako.

If you're looking at factory offerings, have you considered the Ruger Precision rifle?



Brand name won't make a difference here. Science doesn't care about labels. Barrels are relatively cheap. If you plan on shooting as much as you think you are, you'll want to look into the cost of swapping barrels. As far as I know, Savage will give you an edge in this department.

Your first step is to determine what your budget is. That's the only way anyone here will be able to make a recommendation.

honestly, i can't remember a crappy savage except the awfull axis trigger. the 12 model benchrest is a charm,very accurate, and the FTR is also a nice an accurate rifle. i love their 3d bedding and especially the accutrigger which can be adjusted to as low as 8 onces. as for tikkas, they're as well tack drivers shooters but they are not interesting to me as except the tactical model they're hunting rifles.

these are just not in the territory i want to put my feets in....i want a spiral fluted barrel thick as a brick, an action with the rear built like a stainless steel tank's armor and a nice folding and adjustable stock easy to carry in a guitar case, and as tight of an assembly as possible.....that's the plan LOL NAH!! (insert baby's tears here hahahaha!)

Ben
05-03-2016, 10:42 AM
you get this all wrong. i'm definitely not placing savage in the same league as AI,PGW,CADEX AT ALL.

if i was in the market for an accurate generic rifle, savage would be in the 1st spot right there with tikka's and sako. not more. the point here being i want an action thick and bulky enough for ''hot'' rounds being shot in a row....you know, i'm not the kind of guy who hit a range to shoot 1 round only each 5 minutes. i want to be able to shoot as many rounds as i want without exageration of course.

now, make your point about the whole topic, and put your suggestions down right here, i'm highly interested to hear what your thoughts are...not about you judging my point of view.

As Awndray just said, what is your budget for the rifle (only)??

A number of very high quality rifle manufacturers have already been suggested. You seemed very keened (and already set) on going the custom route so I think this thread's only purpose is to validate your choice and not actually seek opinions on the matter.

Those two statements I bolded above makes it hard not to judge, so I will then ask: for what purpose? Which type of long range shooting discipline are you trying to practice? or get into?

Establishing your budget along with your requirements will get you a longs way.

There are shooters on this board who are very knowledgeable with years of experience and thousands of rounds down rage, but golly, tell us exactly what your needs are, not your wants.

glockfan
05-03-2016, 10:52 AM
As Awndray just said, what is your budget for the rifle (only)??

A number of very high quality rifle manufacturers have already been suggested. You seemed very keened (and already set) on going the custom route so I think this thread's only purpose is to validate your choice and not actually seek opinions on the matter.

Those two statements I bolded above makes it hard not to judge, so I will then ask: for what purpose? Which type of long range shooting discipline are you trying to practice? or get into?

Establishing your budget along with your requirements will get you a longs way.

There are shooters on this board who are very knowledgeable with years of experience and thousands of rounds down rage, but golly, tell us exactly what your needs are, not your wants.

so,what is the choices of factory rifles .5 moa and less guarantee do you think might float my boat ?.....and i'll tell you i have a crush on everything PGW already, but as usual, the best i heard about them is that it's still a hit or miss with them,some are great out the box, some others are wellsoso....

if you have read my opening post you already knows the recipe i posted drives me to around 4900 for the rifle only and i'm already sold on NXS nightforce optics.....

awndray
05-03-2016, 11:05 AM
Since you like Savage, and you like fluted/spiral barrels, why not built a custom off of a Savage action? The actions are plentiful and easy enough to find. A barrel could be sourced from a reputable maker. You could have it fluted if it doesn't come that way already. Plus being a Savage will make it easy for you to swap barrels when you need a new one or if you want to switch to a different caliber. Drop the action in a Cadex chassis if that's your preference, slap on your Nightforce scope, throw on a bipod and you're off to the races. You'll even have some money left over for ammo and maybe even a spare barrel.

glockfan
05-03-2016, 11:18 AM
Since you like Savage, and you like fluted/spiral barrels, why not built a custom off of a Savage action? The actions are plentiful and easy enough to find. A barrel could be sourced from a reputable maker. You could have it fluted if it doesn't come that way already. Plus being a Savage will make it easy for you to swap barrels when you need a new one or if you want to switch to a different caliber. Drop the action in a Cadex chassis if that's your preference, slap on your Nightforce scope, throw on a bipod and you're off to the races. You'll even have some money left over for ammo and maybe even a spare barrel.

if you had the choice between a blueprinted 700 action and a savage action, what would be your pick?

awndray
05-03-2016, 11:23 AM
Savage, but only because I also drive Dodge. lol

But seriously, I'd pick Savage because that's what I have experience with.

glockfan
05-03-2016, 11:46 AM
Savage, but only because I also drive Dodge. lol

But seriously, I'd pick Savage because that's what I have experience with.

thanks for the answer...as fact, i see many cadex customers gets their build with savage actions...it would cut the costs by close to 900$ using a 700 remy or a savage action whereas the stiller tac 300 is close to 1600$ , and it would still be possible to drop the stiller in if ever i feel the need to.....

Ben
05-03-2016, 01:23 PM
so,what is the choices of factory rifles .5 moa and less guarantee do you think might float my boat ?.....and i'll tell you i have a crush on everything PGW already, but as usual, the best i heard about them is that it's still a hit or miss with them,some are great out the box, some others are wellsoso....

if you have read my opening post you already knows the recipe i posted drives me to around 4900 for the rifle only and i'm already sold on NXS nightforce optics.....

Well, actually, you posted shopping list of parts that would amount to $5000, not "the most I can afford for the rifle alone is $5000 and I've put this list together".

You absolutely want a spiral fluted barrel...for the looks as they don't make a lick of a difference how the barrel will perform.

As for PGW, from who are you hearing this from? A sample of how many customer? 4 or 5? or from 50 or more? From new shooters or from experienced shooters? Using Match ammo or reloaders?

I can appreciate your excitement of wanting only but the very absolute best, but if you can't shoot it to it's best capacity, in extended string shoots as you intend to do...then you're wasting your money - having it will make you feel good, but using it will be the (very) hard part.

So at this point, I'm going to tap out of this thread as it's going in circle.