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View Full Version : PAL expiry and needed ammo



bcpaul
07-31-2012, 12:23 AM
Okay, I am not a knowledgeable gun owner that keeps up with legislation and stupid registry rules. I hunt only rarely, and guns (and ammo) I own were given to me by my (now deceased) father. I got my PAL back in 2004 and didn't realize it had expired. I went to buy some .22 ammo this spring and I was not allowed because my PAL expired. What the hell! Why can't I buy ammunition without the damn govt. PAL?? I already own the damn guns.

And why the hell does it expire? Why do the RCMP need to know who has a PAL now? Isn't this the same thing as the gun registry? The RCMP knows that you have guns, just not sure which ones. Sounds like just another gun owner registry.
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I finally got around to re-apply for my PAL and luckily had a copy of my gun course. I filled out the wrong form and got it returned a month later. So I tried again a few weeks ago. The PAL application is way too personal for my liking -- way too much govt. in my personal life. Now they need to know every girlfriend I have for my entire life or mistresses. Lose a job or have a divorce -- oh oh that's too much stress so no PAL for you.

I had to join this forum today so I can get informed and do something about this sickening agenda against gun owners.

They better not keep track of what ammo I buy -- have not bought any for years.

Does anyone know what happens when your PAL expires, but you still own guns? What am I supposed to turn myself into the RCMP for being a criminal? Do I get a swat team t y through crashing through my door at gunpoint? My has been expired for 2 years and nothing happened. Maybe I'll just buy a lifetimes worth of ammo and never renew my PAL.

Sorry for the rant...

Haywire1
07-31-2012, 01:13 AM
Welcome, we do get "checked" by antis and leos, so i assume you are speaking hypothetically? your not in ontario, so if they want to record your pal for ammo, go somewhere else. you dont own any guns, you sold them didnt you? this thread may help you out. http://www.gunownersofcanada.ca/showthread.php?2433-Links-for-all-your-CFC-CFP-questions-and-legal-documents

Drache
07-31-2012, 06:21 AM
You dont need to list every person youve slept with, just those in the last two years if im not mistaken. Doubt anyone fills that in truthfully. As for your pal expiring, legally you are not allowed to own firearms because of it.

And the reason for a pal in the governments eyes was to try and stop people that didnt have pal's from buying ammo for their "illegal" firearms.

pubb
07-31-2012, 08:15 AM
Okay, I am not a knowledgeable gun owner that keeps up with legislation and stupid registry rules. I hunt only rarely, and guns (and ammo) I own were given to me by my (now deceased) father.

Fix this first. Get knowledgeable. Learn the legislation, learn the rules.



I got my PAL back in 2004 and didn't realize it had expired. I went to buy some .22 ammo this spring and I was not allowed because my PAL expired. What the hell! Why can't I buy ammunition without the damn govt. PAL?? I already own the damn guns.


And of course, you may own them but they are in the possession of someone who is licensed to possess firearms, right? Otherwise, this is what police call "a confession".



And why the hell does it expire?

There are a few schools of thought:

Money grab - application fees keep rolling in. Three million PALs times $80 each is 240 million every 5 years. If they up the fees, pretty soon that will be real money.
To create more criminals - people who inadvertantly forget to renew their license yet still possess firearms
So they can screen you for drug use/abuse, relationship breakdown, job loss, etc. which can't be flagged for them like police contact can.



You decide which is the most logical explanation or simply choose them all.



Why do the RCMP need to know who has a PAL now? Isn't this the same thing as the gun registry? The RCMP knows that you have guns, just not sure which ones. Sounds like just another gun owner registry.


It is not a gun registry any more than having a driver's license is a car registry. Just because you are licensed to own guns does not mean you own a gun. Or 10 guns. Or an arsenal full of black baby eating guns (the guns are black, not the babies..well, some might be...)



I finally got around to re-apply for my PAL and luckily had a copy of my gun course. I filled out the wrong form and got it returned a month later.


What other form did you fill out if not the one that says something like, "Application for a Firearms License"?



So I tried again a few weeks ago. The PAL application is way too personal for my liking -- way too much govt. in my personal life. Now they need to know every girlfriend I have for my entire life or mistresses. Lose a job or have a divorce -- oh oh that's too much stress so no PAL for you.

It is true that the application is invasive. As far as the know every girlfriend you've hard for your entire life? Not even close to true. The application asks about spouses, common law partners and conjugal partners. If you weren't living together, you don't need to worry about that question. Read the instructions on the form if you don't believe me. Job loss and divorce are flags for further questioning, not outright denial.



I had to join this forum today so I can get informed and do something about this sickening agenda against gun owners.

Welcome


They better not keep track of what ammo I buy -- have not bought any for years.

Does anyone know what happens when your PAL expires, but you still own guns? What am I supposed to turn myself into the RCMP for being a criminal? Do I get a swat team t y through crashing through my door at gunpoint? My has been expired for 2 years and nothing happened. Maybe I'll just buy a lifetimes worth of ammo and never renew my PAL.

Sorry for the rant...

Your guns need to be in the possession of someone with a license. Get a licensed friend to store them for you if you haven't already.

Get licensed. Get legal. Get informed. Get active.

P

lone-wolf
07-31-2012, 09:51 AM
The most logical reason it expires, is tax collection, and so some lone government employee can justify his useless job.
Same for a million other things.

Rory McCanuck
07-31-2012, 10:08 AM
Great response pubb!
One other thing, you don't need a PAL to buy reloading components.
That doesn't help for .22, but does for just about everything else.

pubb
07-31-2012, 03:29 PM
Just as a follow-up question: if you don't need a PAL to buy reloading components, do you need a PAL once you actually reload?

P

zulu
07-31-2012, 03:39 PM
pubb said it all. haywire gave you immediate advice

bcpaul
07-31-2012, 07:45 PM
Fix this first. Get knowledgeable. Learn the legislation, learn the rules.

Hey that's why I am here....I am not totally ignorant :)


And of course, you may own them but they are in the possession of someone who is licensed to possess firearms, right? Otherwise, this is what police call "a confession".

Ah, thanks for the tip



It is not a gun registry any more than having a driver's license is a car registry. Just because you are licensed to own guns does not mean you own a gun. Or 10 guns. Or an arsenal full of black baby eating guns (the guns are black, not the babies..well, some might be...)

So they can criminally charge me if I don't renew my drivers license, but still "own" a car, but don't drive it??? According to government logic I need to move my car to someone's care that has a license.




What other form did you fill out if not the one that says something like, "Application for a Firearms License"?

Okay, you don't need to be a smartass :D I filled out the renewal form rather than a new application.



It is true that the application is invasive. As far as the know every girlfriend you've hard for your entire life? Not even close to true. The application asks about spouses, common law partners and conjugal partners. If you weren't living together, you don't need to worry about that question. Read the instructions on the form if you don't believe me. Job loss and divorce are flags for further questioning, not outright denial.

Well every 5 years they want to know the last 2 years of women. That's a min 40% of my adult life. Since when does conjugal mean i am living together? This is how I interpret the instructions. I am just making the point of how utterly stupid this is nothing more so I am not going to argue about this one.

Job loss and divorce: Further questioning? Am I applying to join CSIS or the RCMP? Just more nonsense.


Your guns need to be in the possession of someone with a license. Get a licensed friend to store them for you if you haven't already.

Again, thanks for the tip.


Get licensed. Get legal. Get informed. Get active.

RobSmith
07-31-2012, 07:48 PM
Send in your renewal, yesterday. It's free for non-restricted. And that's all I have to say about that.

bcpaul
07-31-2012, 07:50 PM
I still have the guns, just that I am now apparently a criminal on the loose :shoot: Hopefully I don't get visited until I can find some licensed person to move my gun locker to

bcpaul
07-31-2012, 07:53 PM
No renewal, that got returned. Have to apply as if it was my first time, including copy of completed firearm safety course (or whatever you call it) from 2004 with my 3 character references :smash:

pubb
07-31-2012, 08:15 PM
If you're looking for me to say the regulations and policies make sense they don't. But requiring a PAL isn't a registry.

As for conjugal partner, that's a term which the information sheet provides a specific definition for:

Conjugal partner includes spouses and common law partners and all other persons with whom you live or have lived in a similar relationship within the last 2 years.

They don't care about the redhead you met in the bar of the hotel you were staying at in Vegas. They don't care that you scored with your buddy's sister in the back of the Chevelle or got to third with the manager of your local Tim's. They care about long term significant domestic relationships.

P

Neil Burke
07-31-2012, 10:02 PM
And why the hell does it expire?

1) It's photo ID. All of the photo ID that I possess requires renewal every 5 years: Driver's License, Health Card, Passport.

2) Background check.

dweenz
08-01-2012, 01:35 PM
this is the law now unfortunately criminalized for possession of property.