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3MTA3
08-01-2012, 04:51 AM
Has anyone unitized their gas system-(I am thinking of doing it on my Norc)- was it worth the effort?

Satain
08-01-2012, 08:17 AM
Yep I truley perfer mine done this way plus it is in all the NM manuals also but back then they screwed & glued it instead of welding it.
Here is what it should look like;
https://fj0fpq.bay.livefilestore.com/y1p-wzTu6bWmiu7dEsgNUNE7C2QMWaeziGT2sj0-GEpnOL2EJ7GFfLu994boFyokBEbPH8eFPJijlRqUPMlvkt1mfI cgNSDJbLy/IMG00477.jpg?psid=1
https://fj0fpq.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pfIyMKzSq0yErI3SmJX4wP054iCX4XldJ-kd_IQTCxNBwCEGHHZcOeE83kKD_q1nehKGg9cclDCU-c7Pn_tB6JGS5Bot5Gw_3/IMG00479.jpg?psid=1
Please don't do it on the barrel and also please DON'T weld it like this;
https://fj0fpq.bay.livefilestore.com/y1pE23PhyqWsv44cMt9BzxZ8bQAIsejzqix6qDXuXEIEtishXM F538KTEuZrowZbCBnedZaS75awWZ2lSQHOBAUHGaqb3eWqOpc/IMG00476.jpg?psid=1

50calshooter
08-01-2012, 09:51 AM
I sourced a unitized gas block from Brownells, it's a Springfield Armory match gas block, with a discount at Brownells it came in under $100 bucks so it was good to ship...

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=12579/avs%7CManufacturer_1=SPRINGFIELD%20ARMORY/Product/M14-M1A-NATIONAL-MATCH-GAS-CYLINDER

http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr198/50calshooter/M14/DSC_3287.jpg
http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr198/50calshooter/M14/DSC_3285.jpg
http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr198/50calshooter/M14/DSC_3283.jpg
http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr198/50calshooter/M14/DSC_3281.jpg

BillyGoat
08-01-2012, 11:05 AM
That, a solid spring guide and a new rear sight are among cheapest ways to better hit what you're aiming at.

3MTA3
08-01-2012, 02:14 PM
50Calshooter: Did you have to purchase a new piston or does the whole affair fit a Norc including piston?

50calshooter
08-01-2012, 02:18 PM
50Calshooter: Did you have to purchase a new piston or does the whole affair fit a Norc including piston?

Nope didnt have too, everything Norc will work with these gas blocks....

Satain
08-01-2012, 05:27 PM
I sourced a unitized gas block from Brownells, it's a Springfield Armory match gas block, with a discount at Brownells it came in under $100 bucks so it was good to ship...

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=12579/avs%7CManufacturer_1=SPRINGFIELD%20ARMORY/Product/M14-M1A-NATIONAL-MATCH-GAS-CYLINDER

http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr198/50calshooter/M14/DSC_3287.jpg
http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr198/50calshooter/M14/DSC_3285.jpg
http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr198/50calshooter/M14/DSC_3283.jpg
http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr198/50calshooter/M14/DSC_3281.jpg
If you can find some one to weld as good as the above pictures make sure to buy him a few beers cause that is some top notch hard as beep to do welding.

Rocket Surgery
08-01-2012, 07:35 PM
Maybe it's just machined like that and not welded. It's a pretty sexy beast, I'd like to put my chinese piston in there (would probably fit :()

Satain
08-01-2012, 08:52 PM
Maybe it's just machined like that and not welded. It's a pretty sexy beast, I'd like to put my chinese piston in there (would probably fit :()
Please look at this pic closely were the barrel goes threw the gas ban area you will notice the weld then machine smooth marks.

...
http://i483.photobucket.com/albums/rr198/50calshooter/M14/DSC_3283.jpg
...

RobSmith
08-01-2012, 08:57 PM
So if I understand the concept correctly the idea here is to weld the gas cylinder to the plate thingy that mates it to the stock ?

Satain
08-01-2012, 10:13 PM
So if I understand the concept correctly the idea here is to weld the gas cylinder to the plate thingy that mates it to the stock ?
Yep...
The whole secret to accuracy in semi auto firearms is repeatability. Hence why you weld this. But it is my lame man's terms. For a more detailed response hit up Hungry or M14Doctor.

SKULLBOY
08-01-2012, 10:28 PM
Yep...
The whole secret to accuracy in semi auto firearms is repeatability. Hence why you weld this. But it is my lame man's terms. For a more detailed response hit up Hungry or M14Doctor.

Yup.....repeatability and consistency. When you unitize the gas system you are making it "one" and eliminating any play....

The U.S. Army uses the "Glue and Screw" method of unitizing and the Marine Corp welds theirs. If welding (which is the most common) you want to tack weld at 10, 2, & 6 o'clock position on the gas cylinder.......

3MTA3
08-02-2012, 03:25 AM
In a attempt to prepare for welding I tried to remove the castle nut, all I did was warp the pliers...

chalkriver
08-02-2012, 04:11 AM
Did you remove the allen screw before attempting to remove the flash hider ?

3MTA3
08-02-2012, 07:31 AM
-I thought that would be the hard part because the screw did not appear to match any Hex key I have.

Satain
08-02-2012, 04:19 PM
ALSO!!!
Never weld the gas system on the barrel. The heat transfer can or will cause the chrome line to flake off and thus dramticaly reduce the chance of having an accurate rifle.

3MTA3
08-05-2012, 11:27 AM
ALSO!!!
Never weld the gas system on the barrel. The heat transfer can or will cause the chrome line to flake off and thus dramticaly reduce the chance of having an accurate rifle.

In the stickies above-It seems they are describing welding the unit with the unit on the barrel?

SKULLBOY
08-05-2012, 12:53 PM
In the stickies above-It seems they are describing welding the unit with the unit on the barrel?

It is best to remove the cylinder from the barrel to weld..........

Hungry
08-05-2012, 01:22 PM
So if I understand the concept correctly the idea here is to weld the gas cylinder to the plate thingy that mates it to the stock ?
Yup, it's called the front band and it's welded to the gas cylinder. Remember that unitizing is done so that the barrel and all the components hanging on it vibrate (can you say: harmonics?) as one piece. I've had good results without welding in the past, I just happened to have an opportunity to weld things up at the 100 Mile House Ingram Rifleworks clinic, then I got to yell out loud at the great welded when he was on my firing line! :D ha ha ha ha

Have lots of fun with the welding process!!

Cheers,
Barney

Satain
08-06-2012, 09:13 AM
Yup, it's called the front band and it's welded to the gas cylinder. Remember that unitizing is done so that the barrel and all the components hanging on it vibrate (can you say: harmonics?) as one piece. I've had good results without welding in the past, I just happened to have an opportunity to weld things up at the 100 Mile House Ingram Rifleworks clinic, then I got to yell out loud at the great welded when he was on my firing line! :D ha ha ha ha

Have lots of fun with the welding process!!

Cheers,
Barney
Leaving my cabin right now to go to his house & can't wait for him to read this!
LoL!!!

3MTA3
08-10-2012, 05:12 AM
Well I got the piece welded by a friend at work, would have preferred to TIG it, but we used a MIG. The settings were a little hot and the weld penetrated a little too deep on the barrel band, causing a little bit of a bump on the inside. I don't blame my buddy, I could have done it myself with the same results,I could'nt see it well enough to do the job myself.
I sanded out the bump and it seems pretty snug on the barrel so it may have deformed a bit (yeah it was pre and post heated).I think I will try it anyway and order the Brownells cylinder assembly. I could'nt find a #7 taper reamer for the flash hider, so I will experiment with that later.(the Norc seems to have larger dimensions than I expected).

I.C.R.
08-10-2012, 01:11 PM
generally speaking, Norinco parts don't fit US made or sourced gas cylinders. the ODD guy has had success but by and large they are not compatable. USGI and other american made products are manufactured on machines using the imperial system and chinese machinese are set up in metric.

as for unitizing, it makes the gas assembly a one piece unit, and as other's have said here, can have a very positive affect on overall barrel harmonics. Necessary, NO, desireable on an accurized rifle.... HELL YES :D

I trust one man to do my unitizing both for professional work and for my personal rifles. He does the welding, i do the prep, jigging and final detailing. Here at ICR , we jig the assembly on precisely machined brass heatsinks, ensuring correct alignment and fitment of the gas band plate and cylinder. We then use filler rod that matches the steel, ie: stainless for USGI and chromoly for others. We also use a TIG machine, masterfully run by Tony, backed by his 35 plus years of welding experience.

3MTA3
08-13-2012, 05:45 AM
ICR:So, how do I get my other gas assembly to you, to get this work done?

I.C.R.
08-13-2012, 02:09 PM
send me a private message ;)
we are joining this site's dealer program once our website has been completed and links will be provided. till then, private message me with your M14 related questions , I am not booking full rifle work, but we will accept trigger jobs and gas system unitizing work.
cheers
thomas