American with some questions

[Elle308]

Hello,

I'm new to the forum and have some questions I wanted to ask of the knowledgeable folks here. ..

Let me preface this by saying I've done searches and either my search terms are too short (e.g., fbi) or didn't turn up what I was looking for.

In short, I've been here several months (no, I didn't arrive Tuesday night ) and am in the process of starting a permanent residency application with my Canadian partner. I've been shooting since I was a wee girl but haven't done any hunting and would like to with this area seemingly being home to lots of interesting species.

A PAL is obviously my first step and I read on the rcmp pages that if you've been here less than 5 years that you need a letter of good conduct from your local or state police department back in your native country. Is this the same as a police certificate which is also used for immigration purposes? I'm in BC but cane from Florida so I certainly hope this is something I can do remotely. I was fingerprinted in Florida when I for my concealed carry permit there but obviously I know such a permit is not possible here.

Is an ATT needed for I think what's called a non restricted firearm (e.g, a typical bolt action hunting rifle be it a rimfire or centerfire with a standard sizedbarrel) ? I understand that an ATT is not needed in this case.

Given I am an American citizen and assuming I get the PAL, could I purchase a (non restricted) firearm in the states and bring it back to Canada myself as long as I declare it to CBSA and then presumably to RCMP? It seems prices are far lower and I wouldn't have any extended waiting period back in the states based past experience where I've lived.

Thoughts on a local or nearby outfit in Vancouver or the lower mainland to take the safety course? I'd consider it a bonus to find a shop that has good equipment and resources.


Finally any suggestions on where to meet people with an interest in firearms and hunting in particular? Once I get things going with the PAL it would be great to meet some folks who are experienced hunters and willing to share their knowledge with someone newer to that sport.

Cheers and thank you.

[kennymo]

No ATT required for non-restricted arms.

IIRC, a letter from your former local police is most useful for this process, but we've got a couple former foreigners kicking around here someplace that could probably offer a more in depth view of the process.

There is some paperwork you can fill out to import your own firearms into the country, less trouble for you since you're a US citizen I would think. There are also some importers (like Aztech at the top of the page) that can help out with the cross border bit.

The range is a great place to meet people, as well as the local gun shop. There's also a BC group of GOC'ers that gets together for coffee and such once in a while, they've got a thread about it around here somewhere....

[blacksmithden]

No, you can't bring a gun back from the US. The problem isn't on this side of the border...its the US side. In order to bring a firearm, firearm part, or firearm accessory out of the US, you would have to make an application through ITAR. In order to do that, you would have to be in the US when the application is made, and as far as I know, be there though out the processing time, until they sent back approval.

You no longer require an ATT if you have the restricted endorsement on your PAL. That being said, you can't transport restricted firearms just anywhere. They allow for transport "by a reasonably direct route" from your home, to a certified range, and back again. You can take them to a gunsmith, retailer for appraisal purposes...and I honestly can't remember all 6 conditions right now. Do a search on bill C-42. That was the parliamentary act that got rid of the need for a paper ATT.

As Kenney suggested, join a gun club. That's probably the highest concentration of hunters you're likely to find.

As for the rest of the info...sorry...I'm not going to be much help on those points.

AND....Welcome to Canada !

[greywolf67nt]

No, you can't bring a gun back from the US. The problem isn't on this side of the border...its the US side. In order to bring a firearm, firearm part, or firearm accessory out of the US, you would have to make an application through ITAR. In order to do that, you would have to be in the US when the application is made, and as far as I know, be there though out the processing time, until they sent back approval.

If you are planning on keeping your American Citizenship this may not apply to you because you would just be technically bringing them in for the duration of your stay. Like Canadians taking firearms south of the border when they go on holidays. Best to ask The American authorities on this one.

[kennymo]

If you are planning on keeping your American Citizenship this may not apply to you because you would just be technically bringing them in for the duration of your stay. Like Canadians taking firearms south of the border when they go on holidays. Best to ask The American authorities on this one.

I was just gonna say....as a US citizen there are going to be some rules on the South side of the border we have to follow that you don't. Not quite sure what they'd be though....

[Elle308]

I appreciate the many replies and clarifications.

Addressing one of the comments above, yes, I absolutely plan on keeping my US citizenship. Perhaps it matters when I would attempt to bring in the firearm as in before I become a permanent resident (and hence am considered a tourist or visitor) or after I became a resident. Obviously I'll still need the license, training course, application, etc but I'm wondering if those suffice to sort of let you keep any (non restricted) firearms you brought in from America while you were a visitor.

For example. .. say I'm on a standard visit stay here (which is accurate) from a legal status standpoint. I go through the firearms licensing process, get the PAL, but before I become a permanent resident (assuming Ottawa approves me and this will take a year or more in all likelihood), I cross the border legally (declaring i have a firearm and showing all paperwork and licensure to CBSA) and attempt to bring in this firearm I bought in the US. Essentially I'm wondering if anything changes regarding the legality of my non restricted firearms that I bought over legally as a tourist the minute I become a permanent resident.

And I will as suggested above be looking at sources of information from the states on this topic. If anyone had experience with this then your thoughts would be appreciated.

[SIR VEYOR]

You can import MOST of your firearms yourself. Some likely won't be admissible due to Canadian laws, especially any magazines.
There is a one time permanent export allowed and Is in conjunction with your settlers documents. I think you need to own them at least six months before export, and cannot sell/dispose of any settler items for a minimum of one year without paying duty.
As part of the moving process, there is some more legwork on the US side. I think it's AES? That you have to create an account with to exports some items. Vehicles for sure, likely firearms and other things as well. US border guys weren't sure themselves about firearms and some other stuff when we did a vehicle under it.
There is no timeline on when your settler inventory has to exported, and it can be done in multiple trips. But the list must be made prior to its submission. No additions afterwards.
Self exporting as part of emigration isn't too bad and much cheaper than using exporters, brokers, etc.

[Justice]

"...and bring it back to Canada myself..." Depends on the firearm. ITAR doesn't apply to all of 'em, but exporting one is more the issue than importing.
Read this. Confirmation of SIR-VEYOR's "no timeline" will be there some place. Isn't a great site visually though.

http://www.canadacustomsinfo.com/moving-to-canada-settlers-effects/

Anyway, this is where you start. Note that foreign safety course like you CCW doesn't apply. Nor does any other experience regardless of where or how much.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/moving-emmenager-eng.htm

Here for B.C.'s hunting regs and getting a licence there.

http://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/sports-culture/recreation/fishing-hunting/hunting/bc-resident-hunting

[ESnel]

I took my course with Silvercore,they offer courses both on the Island and the lower mainland. Also check out your local rod & gun clubs and ranges as some do offer courses. If you give us a city your in or near local there can give recommendations or places to avoid.

For bringing in firearms from the USA to Canada I'd talk to Marshall at Aztech Armory https://www.aztecharmory.com/about-us-i-8.html myself and other here have used their services and have no problem recomending them.

If you don't have them here are the Canadian Firearms Safety Course manuals(non res/res)

http://firearmslaw.ca/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/CFSC-Manual.pdf

http://firearmslaw.ca/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/CRFSC-Manual.pdf

These are the people to talk to about getting a hunting licence in BC ,unlike your PAL you can self study and just do the exam.

http://www.bcwf.net/index.php/core-sp-30096

[infidel29]

Oh, and if anyone hasn't said it before Elle308, welcome to Canada and to the forum!

[blacksmithden]

Just one thing that popped into my mind when you said you plan on keeping your citizenship. A few years back, the US government decided that it had the authority to collect income tax from US citizens living and working in another country. I don't know the exact ins and outs of it, but it might be something you want to look into. The last thing anybody needs is to have their home government coming after them with a bill for 20 years of back taxes.

[harbl_the_cat]

Just one thing that popped into my mind when you said you plan on keeping your citizenship. A few years back, the US government decided that it had the authority to collect income tax from US citizens living and working in another country. I don't know the exact ins and outs of it, but it might be something you want to look into. The last thing anybody needs is to have their home government coming after them with a bill for 20 years of back taxes.

FATCA, FATCA, FATCA... the most Draconian piece of financial legislation any government in history has ever implemented.

Long story short - every bank on the planet that doesn't want to get gooned by the U.S. government MUST report to the IRS any U.S. citizens who hold an account with them.

Pray that Trump repeals that legislation, although it's pretty unlikely. That said, he'd probably make up for it by Making America Great Again and in the present time we live in, fewer Americans would likely become expats as the wheels fall off the rest of the world (including Canada) and who knows, Canada might accede to the U.S. as a consequence.

That said, to Elle308, welcome to Western Canada - really the only place in Canada to be with respect to Gun Ownership if you don't like being treated as a social pariah, getting SWATTED by jerk wad neighbors, having spontaneous visits from the police, registering your single shot .22 rifles, and having separate ATTs to take your handgun to the range, to the gunsmith at the range, and to a retail store next door to the range.

As a blatant generalization, the rest of B.C. outside of Vancouver seems pretty chill with respect to guns - they're almost Albertans. My guess is it has something to do with living in the mountains in the middle of nowhere as opposed to living on the coast where everything is on easy mode (except for buying real estate).

Also, if you're coming into Canada be VERY careful with respect to what you bring in. Our laws and regulations are ridiculously confusing, full of loopholes and contradictions that provide no value and make no sense, and the penalties for non-compliance of benign, harmless laws or regulations being reminiscent of despotic 3rd world dictatorships.

Case in point - bringing in a 10 round magazine "designed and manufactured" for an AR-15 rifle that fits in an AR-15 pistol is prohibited, carrying very stiff mandatory prison sentences, however bringing in a 10 round magazine "designed and manufactured" for an AR-15 pistol, even if it functions in an AR-15 rifle, is not... until some hot shot bureaucrat at the RCMP firearms lab changes his mind decides that it is.

Coincidentally, they tend to change their minds whenever the Liberal's hold Federal, although the Conservatives really aren't much better.

[kennymo]

^^ That's Harbl. He goes a little overboard sometimes. But yes, welcome to Canada...

[Elle308]

Great replies and I'm thankful to get a wealth of information from you all who are obviously intimate with the countries laws.

For the record and local recommendations, I'm in Vancouver so please do suggest places, clubs, and more for friendly faces and service in our mutual interest.

I have indeed already felt like a pariah for being a gun enthusiast and not a hillary/Obama apologist. I assume that's mostly the city and perhaps outside that, in the rural areas, the attitude would be more open. Maybe I can convince my fiance to move to Alberta!

You all are spot on about the irs and the deadly clutches of its all too long reach. They truly do demand their money. I know there are some treaties to avoid double taxation but I also know most of us so aren't rich enough to have a small any of accountants and Lawyers will end up paying more. Bottom line is a broad tax code or rewrite of the tax system is very unlikely. .. too many people making too much money with the status quo and even the fake conservatives betray their constituents and promises all the time. . Sadly I expect the same of trump.

You can't even really renounce your us citizenship very easily. Frankly I do love my country but would forego it if I could truly find a more libertarian place to live that still had more socially open attitudes. Obviously I'm in canada because of the heart but certainly want to live in a way that's as consistent with my values and beliefs as possible.

Apologies for the minor rant. It's not easy to find people to express it to!

I may end up just buying local as if nothing else that would support a good Canadian gun shop which would be my preference. I'll look into the import as part of my settlement but will keep it simple and stupid in terms of what I potentially bring in which is to say, a very ordinary bolt action that should be boring enough to not fall into the many loopholes and exceptions cited above like the higher capacity pistol mags used on semi auto rifles like the 458 RRA variant of the AR.

[Marshall]

Let me also welcome you to Canada. I can relate to a lot of what you're going through. Although I was raised in BC I am also a US citizen, so all the tax implications etc. are realities for me as well.

As far as importing your currently owned firearms, there has been some good advice presented here already. You are allowed a one time exemption from the rigors of the ITAR export rules if you are moving from the US. That said, you would still need to contact the US Stare Dept to confirm that and get the proper documentation to present to CBP on the way out of the US and then again to CBSA on the way in to Canada.

As registered exporters from the US and importers in Canada we are extremely familiar with the laws on both sides of the border so please feel free to call or email me any time if you have any questions or concerns. Contact info can be found at www.aztecharmory.com. I'm also an RCMP verifier so I have access to the Canadian FRT (Firearms Reference Table) so if you need to confirm the status of any given firearm I can help with that to.

Oh, and you don't have to move to Alberta... not that there is anything wrong with Alberta, there is some beautiful country and great people there, but all you need to do is come inland a couple hundred miles and you will find a much more relaxed gun friendly social climate...