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Northshore
12-17-2016, 09:05 AM
I was in the big city yesterday and saw lead soft point copper jacket bullets in 7.62x39 and was wondering if anyone uses the sks for hunting? If so what species of animals have you hunted with it? At what ranges was the game taken, did the round work well? Any other info would be great. Thanks.

kennymo
12-17-2016, 09:28 AM
I know a number of people who use them on deer. Maximum range is dependant on the individual SKS and how far out it can keep that 8 or 9 inch group to keep it on a deer's vitals.

Swampdonkey
12-17-2016, 11:42 AM
I hunt with mine for black bear and mule deer, out to 100 yards. I have a 55 Tula that shoots very well, but the cartridge runs out of steam with the light bullets.

Hornady makes SSTs in boxes of 50 which expand well.

Rory McCanuck
12-17-2016, 12:55 PM
I think an SKS that someone shoots well and has confidence in is probably a better choice than a 30-378 Weatherby for most people.
If you were to run a crate of surplus through it shooting at pop bottles from various ranges offhand, hitting the vitals of a deer at 150 yards wouldn't be much challenge.

Northshore
12-17-2016, 01:29 PM
I have one hunting stand on my property where the shot is between 40 and 50 yards, so I was thinking next season to try the SKS when I hunt that particular stand. The bullets they had available for hunting were Prvi Partizan soft point, round nose 123 grains, the guy behind the counter said they were good for hunting, they have brass cases and are non corrosive.

JustBen
12-17-2016, 01:39 PM
I have one hunting stand on my property where the shot is between 40 and 50 yards, so I was thinking next season to try the SKS when I hunt that particular stand. The bullets they had available for hunting were Prvi Partizan soft point, round nose 123 grains, the guy behind the counter said they were good for hunting, they have brass cases and are non corrosive.

Yup. Those will work just fine.

Wendell
12-17-2016, 03:55 PM
Better sights help.

These (http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/sights/sight-sets/sks-firesight-set-prod26074.aspx) work well: http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/sights/sight-sets/sks-firesight-set-prod26074.aspx

Lazagna
12-17-2016, 04:16 PM
Can you hunt with steel core ammo?

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Petamocto
12-17-2016, 04:19 PM
I plan on hunting with my old M1 Garand at some point. Basically the same gun.

[/troll]

kennymo
12-17-2016, 04:44 PM
Can you hunt with steel core ammo?

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Illegal to use FMJ bullets most places in this country. It's acceptable for fur bearing animals in some localities, otherwise it's soft point or hollow point only.

Lazagna
12-17-2016, 04:53 PM
Illegal to use FMJ bullets most places in this country. It's acceptable for fur bearing animals in some localities, otherwise it's soft point or hollow point only.
I figured as much. I don't have a hunting license yet so am unaware.

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Petamocto
12-17-2016, 05:14 PM
Illegal to use FMJ bullets most places in this country. It's acceptable for fur bearing animals in some localities, otherwise it's soft point or hollow point only.

What?

How have I missed this? Where are these bullet-specific rules you speak of?

Strewth
12-17-2016, 06:11 PM
What?

How have I missed this? Where are these bullet-specific rules you speak of?
Here it is from BC? This is North American wide, if I'm not mistaken?
http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/190_84_01

Division 7 — Hunting Methods

Offence — weapons
17 (1) A person commits an offence where he hunts

(a) with a rifle using
(i) a full metal jacketed non-expanding bullet, or
(ii) a tracer, incendiary, or explosive bullet,

kennymo
12-17-2016, 06:19 PM
Here it is from BC? This is North American wide, if I'm not mistaken?
http://www.bclaws.ca/civix/document/id/complete/statreg/190_84_01

I'm assuming he's being mildly facetious. I don't think there's a federal law for this (as there is for steel shot and three round limit on waterfowl) but it's written into most (maybe all) of the provinces wildlife acts. With exception for trapping purposes by some provinces. Not sure about the territories....

Dewey Cox
12-17-2016, 07:12 PM
In Alberta, I think the law says it's illegal to use "non expanding bullets"

IJ22
12-17-2016, 08:14 PM
I figured as much. I don't have a hunting license yet so am unaware.

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I'm sure I'll be corrected shortly if I'm wrong but my understanding is that in Ontario it's not illegal, but it's frowned upon by the hunting community from an ethics standpoint.

P-B.
12-17-2016, 10:50 PM
I must be a long way behind the times! Just joined here, but years ago when I had an SKS the cartridge wasn't allowed for hunting in Alberta. When did this change? (If it did)
Do we now go by enjergy figures rather than case length?? Sorry to come out of the ark and all that!

Best to all Richard. Central AB.

Petamocto
12-18-2016, 03:06 AM
I'm sure I'll be corrected shortly if I'm wrong but my understanding is that in Ontario it's not illegal, but it's frowned upon by the hunting community from an ethics standpoint.

I just took the course in Ontario within the past couple years, and bullet type was not covered that I remember.

And being frowned upon by the hunting community is a lot different that being banned coast to coast, which is what was said above.

I just looked through the most recent hunting guide: https://dr6j45jk9xcmk.cloudfront.net/documents/5006/2016-ontario-hunting-regulations-english.pdf

Not only did I not see anything mentioned about preferring or requiring expanding ammunition vice ball ammo, there is even a spot in the moose section that includes concerns about possible lead poisoning where it recommends using non-lead ammunition, ie copper (p47). The only real time they cover ammunition types has to do with minimum caliber regulations and shotgun pellet types for birds.

That's the hunter education reference manual, but I'll check the fish and wildlife conservation act next.

Update: Just checked that act as well: https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/97f41

Nothing on ball/expanding ammo there, either.

For the record, I'm not saying that I would hunt with FMJs, because I don't; I am merely challenging the accusation that it is banned to do so.

speedloader
12-18-2016, 03:17 AM
why would it not be allowed its a 30 cal bullet?
lots have hunted with an sks check your local regs for bullet type

Kenwp
12-18-2016, 06:38 AM
I must be a long way behind the times! Just joined here, but years ago when I had an SKS the cartridge wasn't allowed for hunting in Alberta. When did this change? (If it did)
Do we now go by enjergy figures rather than case length?? Sorry to come out of the ark and all that!

Best to all Richard. Central AB.

For years hunting in Alberta had a cartridge length minimum so that things like a 44-40 and such even in a rifle could not be used to hunt with. But they changed that many years ago so that we could use guns like a 44 mag and such again. Can't give you the exact year they changed it but they did. I have a rifle in 44 mag and for a long time it was just a oddball to use and then they made it legal. If I check the right place I have old Alberta regs stored away that had this in them. Plus I still have the hunter training manual from 1973 put away some place. I believe it was 3/4 of an inch if I remember right.

speedloader
12-18-2016, 08:49 AM
Here are the current Albertistan regulations
showing the ammo regs for each class of animal
http://www.albertaregulations.ca/huntingregs/genregs.html

Lazagna
12-18-2016, 09:10 AM
So, because I know nothing at this point. Non expanding bullets would be anything that does not have at least a lead tip?

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P-B.
12-18-2016, 09:22 AM
Kenwp,

Thank you for your reply and clarification. I looked at my old regulations last night and did note there is no longer any mention about case length.
I must have been too busy with the farm to take notice! Pleased it has changed though, A wee light SKS is a nice change!

Daughter and myself have both just acquired an SKS.......and a 91/30 :-) .............

Lasagna,

An expanding bullet has either the lead showing at tip as you surmise, Or a hollow point, Or maybe a bronze or plastic tip. The bronze -points look very like FMJ at first glance. Some of the Winchester line have a silver (aluminium ) tip.

Lazagna
12-18-2016, 09:51 AM
Kenwp,

Thank you for your reply and clarification. I looked at my old regulations last night and did note there is no longer any mention about case length.
I must have been too busy with the farm to take notice! Pleased it has changed though, A wee light SKS is a nice change!

Daughter and myself have both just acquired an SKS.......and a 91/30 :-) .............

Lasagna,

An expanding bullet has either the lead showing at tip as you surmise, Or a hollow point, Or maybe a bronze or plastic tip. The bronze -points look very like FMJ at first glance. Some of the Winchester line have a silver (aluminium ) tip.
Awesome, thanks for the enlightenment


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IJ22
12-18-2016, 11:09 AM
Not only did I not see anything mentioned about preferring or requiring expanding ammunition vice ball ammo, there is even a spot in the moose section that includes concerns about possible lead poisoning where it recommends using non-lead ammunition, ie copper (p47). The only real time they cover ammunition types has to do with minimum caliber regulations and shotgun pellet types for birds.


So sounds like I was not led astray. Non-lead ammo is interesting, I came across this:

http://huntingwithnonlead.org/

Buster
12-18-2016, 12:16 PM
Page 17 of the Bc hunting regs... "It is unlawful to hunt with a rifle using full metal jacketed non-expanding Bullet, or a tracer, incendiary or explosive Bullet.

P-B.
12-18-2016, 01:02 PM
Buster,

It's the same in Alberta. Makes sense :-)


P-B.

Lazagna
12-18-2016, 01:11 PM
So technically, if the steel core ammo had a soft point, then it could be used?

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Buster
12-18-2016, 01:17 PM
I'm unaware of any expanding steel core. If you want a hunting Bullet that flat out works and does not fall into any grey area... Stick with the hornady sst or federal fusion.

I find the fusion shoots best in MY rifle.

Lazagna
12-18-2016, 02:21 PM
I'm unaware of any expanding steel core. If you want a hunting Bullet that flat out works and does not fall into any grey area... Stick with the hornady sst or federal fusion.

I find the fusion shoots best in MY rifle.
It's not that I WOULD'VE used the steel core stuff, I'm just interested the possible.

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murph83
12-18-2016, 05:01 PM
I have hunted with an sks before. Used federal fusion ammo..mule buck didn't complain when I blew the lungs outta him at about 30yards.

Swampdonkey
12-18-2016, 07:19 PM
For thick forest as is common on Vancouver Island, the SKS is ideal.

Kenwp
12-18-2016, 08:09 PM
Word to the wise FMJ's don't work for coyotes either they blow big holes for some reason. I have some Russian ammo that is good for hunting also. It's close to the 30-30 so should work well on deer plus you do have a second shot.

altitude604
12-19-2016, 10:17 AM
Picked up some Barnaul 125gr SP for plugging some nuisance Coyotes the other day actually.

Just finished my Hunter's Course here in Scotia. The lil' buggers keep chewing the connections for our runway lights... well soon it'll be lights out for them!

P-B.
12-19-2016, 11:34 AM
Kenwp,

The full metal jacket ammo is meant to de-stabalise on impact, so yes, it Does blow a big hole in things!

Altitude,

Here, the coyotes like to eat the Blue twine on the round bales! They don't bother the red or pink......

Justice
12-19-2016, 11:46 AM
The Feds have no say in it. Wildlife(natural resources) management is strictly a Provincial jurisdiction.
"...Where are these bullet-specific rules..." Alberta, for one. AB does say, "ammunition that contains non-expanding bullets." Also says, "ammunition of less than .23 calibre." Both apply to big game only.
It is absolutely not continent wide. Ontario says, "Any centre fire." Still heavily frowned upon by hunters though.
"...3/4 of an inch..." If you're talking case length the .44-40 is ok. Case length is 1.305". Mind you, nothing says some unelected civil servant didn't decide to ban it by name.
In any case, if you're hunting deer(anything smaller will be fine) with a 7.62 x 39, think under 100 yards. Most of the Carbines aren't capable of hitting 9" at 150 yards. However, the Hornady 123 SST, sighted in 3.5" high, at 100, will be 14.8" low at 300 and on target at 200 but with insufficient energy(841ish ft-lbs.). The Winchester 123 Super-X SP is about the same, but slightly less energy at 200. And 200 is assuming the rifle will hit into a 9" circle(~ kill zone on a deer) at that distance.

Rory McCanuck
12-19-2016, 12:45 PM
Most of the Carbines aren't capable of hitting 9" at 150 yards.
Wow, you've shot them all?

Kenwp
12-19-2016, 06:20 PM
What kind of carbine you shooting. I found it in an old forum. Used to be 1.75 cartridge length. then they changed it to 243 or bigger.

kennymo
12-19-2016, 06:25 PM
Wow, you've shot them all?

It's funny, I seem to have wound up with all the SKS's that can hit a 10 inch plate at 200 metres. Lucky, huh? ;)

Kenwp
12-19-2016, 08:03 PM
Mine shoots pretty good also. Must have something wrong with it.

Buster
12-19-2016, 11:05 PM
Picked up some Barnaul 125gr SP for plugging some nuisance Coyotes the other day actually.

Just finished my Hunter's Course here in Scotia. The lil' buggers keep chewing the connections for our runway lights... well soon it'll be lights out for them!

Iirc if you search on YouTube you will find that these, as well as some Russian big bear or whatever softpoints don't actually expand at all. Perhaps too heavily jacketed for the velocity.

Swamphunter
12-27-2016, 07:54 PM
Honestly, the military, steel core ammunition would be fine from what I have seen. The. FMJ's have a hollow front core and are rear weight biased. This causes them to be very unstable once resistance is encountered. They enter,waver back and forth, then swap ends, ending up driving the rear of the bullet forward. This happens quickly. I have personally seen them swap ends in a hard maple block. I would think that the wound channel would be more than sufficient.

kennymo
12-27-2016, 07:58 PM
Honestly, the military, steel core ammunition would be fine from what I have seen. The. FMJ's have a hollow front core and are rear weight biased. This causes them to be very unstable once resistance is encountered. They enter,waver back and forth, then swap ends, ending up driving the rear of the bullet forward. This happens quickly. I have personally seen them swap ends in a hard maple block. I would think that the wound channel would be more than sufficient.

They probably would be, but unfortunately illegal in most locales.

Petamocto
12-27-2016, 09:06 PM
They probably would be, but unfortunately illegal in most locales.

About half of Canada lives in Ontario and it's legal there.

Yes some provinces have been identified above, but it's not accurate to state that most ban it.

I also do not think you'd want to do it even if you could, because a high velocity tumble causes what's left of the bullet to blow apart. Effective for killing, yes, but not ideal if you want a metal-free meat to feed your family.

Google "Fackler Velocity" and you'll see how much FMJs can blow apart.

Plinker 777
12-27-2016, 10:44 PM
...it's been a while since I checked, but I'm almost certain FMJ hunting ammo is a no-no in Northern Ontario. Has to be lead or SP.

Petamocto
12-28-2016, 06:15 AM
...it's been a while since I checked, but I'm almost certain FMJ hunting ammo is a no-no in Northern Ontario. Has to be lead or SP.

Look at the links I posted above, straight from the Ontario Hunter Safety Course.

I'm not being dismissive, I just want to see evidence or a source rather than people hearing they can't.

Haywire1
12-28-2016, 07:09 AM
A Hunter safety course is completely different then the hunting regulations. The hunter safety course generally doesnt get updated every year for example. While nothing in Ontario's regulations specifically forbids fmj, most provinces (bc, ab, sk, and mb for a start) do forbid the use of fmj, or "non expanding" bullets for hunting. And considering Canada's population is 33.5 million, and of that, 12.8 million live in Ontario, your a bit short of half the population living there.

Petamocto
12-28-2016, 07:23 AM
Ontario's population is 14 million, which is close to half, not to mention other places on top of that where it's allowed, but that's beside the point and not what's bothering me.

The issue that keeps coming up is that people keep saying something is banned without being able to provide any evidence or sources of it.

I'll be the first guy to admit I'm wrong if proven wrong, but this is like people who assume all semi-autos are restricted because they've heard it at some point.

Everything I have found in Ontario hunting regs not only don't ban ball, if anything they bring up numerous cases when a hunter should not use lead. It's mentioned that the effects of lead poisoning in meat is not understood, and hunting waterfowl over water can not use lead. Nothing banning ball.

altitude604
01-01-2017, 08:23 AM
Iirc if you search on YouTube you will find that these, as well as some Russian big bear or whatever softpoints don't actually expand at all. Perhaps too heavily jacketed for the velocity.

Yeah, unfortunately like others have mentioned... NS Hunting Regs forbid using "non-expanding" ammunition. So I have to buy the expensive stuff. lol