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CLW .45
03-12-2017, 12:33 PM
As I sat in the warm Arizona sun this morning, and checked my email, I found this from Steven Blaney.





CLW .45


Do you think Allah should “Destroy the damned jews.”?


Do you think Allah should “Kill jews one by one” and “Make their children into orphans and their wives into widows.”?


No? Well neither do I.


Fortunately, Montreal Police is now investigating a prominent Montreal Imam who publically said these horrendous things to his followers in a Montreal Mosque.


He was surreptitiously recorded, and the video was publicly accessible for almost 3 years before being recently discovered by Montreal Police.


I am outraged by this.


How can we decry Islamophobia and not anti-semitism when clearly it is a very real problem today.


In their defense, the Mosque said that “clearly” the imam was speaking about Israeli soldiers.


We must not allow radical islamic extremism and violence to spread.


As prime minister, I will double down on the fight against radicalisation and violence, because all Canadians have a right to be safe from violence, whatever their beliefs.


Contribute $5 today so I can fight against anti-semitism and radical Islam.


Steven Blaney


As I contemplated the significance of the 1911 that has been constantly on my hip since I arrived, it seemed that a reply was required.



No Steven, I don't think so.

What I think is that you should have gotten off the stick when you were public safety minister. You should have removed the impediments to carriage and possession of pistols to protect life.

You should have encouraged Canadians to prepare for an emergency in which they and their loved ones would face a murderous armed attack. Your title included "emergency preparedness."

But no, you did nothing to ensure that we would be able to protect the lives, liberty, and security of the persons we love.

You should hang your head in shame!

CLW .45

Buster
03-12-2017, 01:52 PM
That's a real kick in the knackers bro, a real ouchie.

If you haven't seen the the letterkenny series, I suggest you do.

Petamocto
03-12-2017, 02:02 PM
I'm not sure it's fair to paint the man with the same brush that you'd paint an anti-gunner with, just because he didn't give you everything you want.

No politician can give everyone everything they want.

He got his PAL so he could understand the system better, and he got rid of ATTs, which is better than our current one is doing.

coastal
03-12-2017, 02:11 PM
Am I supposed to care about Jewish people more so than any others? It seems to come up a lot between conservatives and the rebel.

Waterloomike
03-12-2017, 02:29 PM
I'm not sure it's fair to paint the man with the same brush that you'd paint an anti-gunner with, just because he didn't give you everything you want.

No politician can give everyone everything they want.

He got his PAL so he could understand the system better, and he got rid of ATTs, which is better than our current one is doing.

I know where you're coming from.

However, we're only asking for that which is rightfully ours to begin with.

TeeJay
03-12-2017, 04:27 PM
I love it. Good on you!

Billythreefeathers
03-12-2017, 04:46 PM
He did a hell of a lot more for us then the present knob

speedloader
03-12-2017, 05:01 PM
yeah Blaney I wouldn't be so Harsh with
he did make some positive changes for us period and did get his pal
the biggest thing he did was take away the classification from the gustapo
which gave them a slap so deserved
He took alot of flack for that from the leftys and it was the first thing they slammed back in
when they lied and cheated their way back into power

CLW .45
03-12-2017, 05:21 PM
yeah Blaney I wouldn't be so Harsh with
he did make some positive changes for us period and did get his pal
the biggest thing he did was take away the classification from the gustapo
which gave them a slap so deserved
He took alot of flack for that from the leftys and it was the first thing they slammed back in
when they lied and cheated their way back into power

Positive changes?

No.

There is still a prohibited classification for firearms, devices, and ammunition.

The "automatic ATT" gives us less than we had before and is still not Canada wide.

There is no six month grace period for renewal, and may never be. It was never brought into force.

There is no licence challenge any more.

There is one more way to prohibit you from owning firearms.

Positive change my ass.

Billythreefeathers
03-12-2017, 05:33 PM
Positive changes?

No.

There is still a prohibited classification for firearms, devices, and ammunition.

The "automatic ATT" gives us less than we had before and is still not Canada wide.

There is no six month grace period for renewal, and may never be. It was never brought into force.

There is no licence challenge any more.

There is one more way to prohibit you from owning firearms.

Positive change my ass.

Right ,,, then nothing it will be,,

manic29
03-13-2017, 01:12 PM
.. and he got rid of ATTs, ...

No he didn't. He could have. But he half-assed it and kept the requirement for having an ATT instead of abolishing the ATT system altogether. The ATT requirement still exists but now it is attached to the RPAL (not really as you still need a piece of paper). Still need a range membership or no ATT (or no RPAL at all) for you.

Doug_M
03-13-2017, 03:43 PM
No he didn't. He could have. But he half-assed it and kept the requirement for having an ATT instead of abolishing the ATT system altogether. The ATT requirement still exists but now it is attached to the RPAL (not really as you still need a piece of paper). Still need a range membership or no ATT (or no RPAL at all) for you.

Don't need any paper in NS.

Coke
03-13-2017, 05:00 PM
Don't need any paper in NS.

Don't need it in Ontario either...

Billythreefeathers
03-13-2017, 05:17 PM
What papers,,, none in Sask

manic29
03-13-2017, 09:13 PM
read the fine print on your new PAL. "Non-standard conditions attached" You have to carry that piece of paper that came with the PAL that has those non-standard conditions on it.

Carguy2550
03-13-2017, 09:24 PM
read the fine print on your new PAL. "Non-standard conditions attached" You have to carry that piece of paper that came with the PAL that has those non-standard conditions on it.

Just got a new license, to go with my first restricted purchase, that had all the ATT conditions with it today. I have to make room in my wallet for a new piece of paper.

We should have an open carry day for PALs so the public sheep can see who the truely certified good guys and gals are.

shootemup604
03-14-2017, 12:09 AM
It was a small start to placate some of the community. Unfortunately, more good stuff did not follow.

Doug_M
03-14-2017, 08:03 AM
read the fine print on your new PAL. "Non-standard conditions attached" You have to carry that piece of paper that came with the PAL that has those non-standard conditions on it.

I specifically asked (called the CFP) and was told i didn't need the piece of paper because it was implied (via C-42).

Ruff
03-14-2017, 08:49 AM
Blaney did have to answer to the somewhat nervous larger party, which had been fighting off attacks saying they were right wing fanatics dangerous to the public. Therefore I won't hold some of his inaction against him, and remember the LGR did get cancelled under his watch. But that aside, he did let RCMP Labs walk all over his authority, himself, and the Canadian public, on quite a few occasions. So yeah, buzz off, Blaney, we need someone better.

tinbird
03-14-2017, 06:51 PM
I specifically asked (called the CFP) and was told i didn't need the piece of paper because it was implied (via C-42).

Many choose not to carry it, me I do because it's printed on the document and does not have 'not required if no special conditions exist' also. It is more proof of what's idiotic with our current firearms laws but I'm not interested in becoming a test case to get it amended.

Coke
03-14-2017, 07:39 PM
I specifically asked (called the CFP) and was told i didn't need the piece of paper because it was implied (via C-42).


Many choose not to carry it, me I do because it's printed on the document and does not have 'not required if no special conditions exist' also. It is more proof of what's idiotic with our current firearms laws but I'm not interested in becoming a test case to get it amended.

When I was at the Ontario CFO conference, in June, for all Range Operators and/or Club Presidents, that very question came up.

The crown council for the CFO, a lady I can't remember her name right now, said that there is nothing in their regulations and nothing in the criminal code about that piece of paper and they would not do anything if you didn't have it. She also alluded to what Doug_M said, that with C-42 it made no difference as it is all electronically attached to the licence now...

3MTA3
03-17-2017, 04:38 AM
New ATT conditions were applied to my license last year= I f I need the piece of paper why did they not send the paper to me?

CLW .45
03-18-2017, 09:19 PM
New ATT conditions were applied to my license last year= I f I need the piece of paper why did they not send the paper to me?

So, the new conditions are attached to your licence. Okay, specifically, what do they say?

Coke
03-19-2017, 05:12 PM
So, the new conditions are attached to your licence. Okay, specifically, what do they say?

As per the RCMP site:

These licence conditions authorize the transport of restricted and/or prohibited firearms registered to the licence holder within their province of residence by a route that, in all circumstances, is reasonably direct for the specific indicated purposes.

Transportation of restricted firearms and/or prohibited handguns (12(6.1) of the Firearms Act) possessed for the purpose of target practice to and from all shooting clubs and ranges approved under section 29 of the Firearms Act.
Transportation of restricted firearms and/or prohibited firearms to and from any place a peace officer, firearms officer of Chief Firearms Officer (CFO) is located for verification, registration or disposal in accordance with the Firearms Act or Part III of the Criminal Code.
Transportation of restricted firearms and/or prohibited firearms to and from a business that holds a licence authorizing it to repair or appraise prohibited or restricted firearms.
Transportation of restricted firearms and/or prohibited firearms to and from a gun show.
Transportation of restricted firearms and/or prohibited firearms to a port of exit, in order to take them outside Canada and from a port of entry.
Transportation of newly acquired restricted firearms and/or prohibited firearms from the place of acquisition to the licence holder's dwelling house or other place authorized by the CFO.

CLW .45
03-29-2017, 09:51 AM
As per the RCMP site:

These licence conditions authorize the transport of restricted and/or prohibited firearms registered to the licence holder within their province of residence by a route that, in all circumstances, is reasonably direct for the specific indicated purposes.

Transportation of restricted firearms and/or prohibited handguns (12(6.1) of the Firearms Act) possessed for the purpose of target practice to and from all shooting clubs and ranges approved under section 29 of the Firearms Act.
Transportation of restricted firearms and/or prohibited firearms to and from any place a peace officer, firearms officer of Chief Firearms Officer (CFO) is located for verification, registration or disposal in accordance with the Firearms Act or Part III of the Criminal Code.
Transportation of restricted firearms and/or prohibited firearms to and from a business that holds a licence authorizing it to repair or appraise prohibited or restricted firearms.
Transportation of restricted firearms and/or prohibited firearms to and from a gun show.
Transportation of restricted firearms and/or prohibited firearms to a port of exit, in order to take them outside Canada and from a port of entry.
Transportation of newly acquired restricted firearms and/or prohibited firearms from the place of acquisition to the licence holder's dwelling house or other place authorized by the CFO.

And you know for a certainty that the conditions attached to your licence actually are what the RCMP site says they are?

More importantly, you know for a certainty that the conditions attached to your licence are what the law says they should be?

How do you know?

And how do you know, when you don't have access to the web, specifically what your authorization says?

Those of us who have them on the document titled "CONDITIONS - POSSESSION AND ACQUISITION" aren't required to rely on electronics or our memory.

By the way, how do you know whether there are other conditions attached to your licence?

Doug_M
03-29-2017, 10:18 AM
By the way, how do you know whether there are other conditions attached to your licence?

That's a good question because I have not received a "conditions" sheet from the CFP. I'm certainly not going to go find "generic" conditions on the internet and print them out. I'm satisfied with the CFO's answer that I don't need to carry them.

Anecdotally, does anyone know of anyone who was ever asked by a policeman or CO for a copy of their conditions?

CLW .45
03-30-2017, 10:01 AM
That's a good question because I have not received a "conditions" sheet from the CFP. I'm certainly not going to go find "generic" conditions on the internet and print them out. I'm satisfied with the CFO's answer that I don't need to carry them.

Anecdotally, does anyone know of anyone who was ever asked by a policeman or CO for a copy of their conditions?

Did you receive the sheet with your licences before that crap sandwich was served up? The one with the condition saying:

"STANDARD CONDITION

You must inform the Chief Firearms Officer of your province or territory within thirty (30) days of any change to your name or address.

SPECIAL CONDITIONS

Carry this document with your licence card as you must be able to produce this document on demand if requested by a peace officer or other authority."

CLW .45
03-30-2017, 10:11 AM
So, I ask again, how do you know what conditions are attached to your licence if you don't have them in writing?

"So and so told me..." just doesn't cut it.

Doug_M
03-30-2017, 11:36 AM
Did you receive the sheet with your licences before that crap sandwich was served up? The one with the condition saying:

"STANDARD CONDITION

You must inform the Chief Firearms Officer of your province or territory within thirty (30) days of any change to your name or address.

SPECIAL CONDITIONS

Carry this document with your licence card as you must be able to produce this document on demand if requested by a peace officer or other authority."

Honestly I don't recall. I've never carried the conditions paper no given it much thought.

My PAL says "Standard conditions are attached to this license". If the conditions are standard then they are defined in "the standards" and I don't need to proved jack to anyone. Now if there were non-standard conditions I'd carry the paper.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Doug_M
03-30-2017, 11:38 AM
So, I ask again, how do you know what conditions are attached to your licence if you don't have them in writing?

"So and so told me..." just doesn't cut it.

The conditions are standard. The standard is defined in the regulations. I don't carry them in the same manner that I don't carry a copy of the firearms act. It is not needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

CLW .45
04-01-2017, 08:28 PM
The conditions are standard. The standard is defined in the regulations. I don't carry them in the same manner that I don't carry a copy of the firearms act. It is not needed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

The ATT as a condition is non standard.

Doug_M
04-02-2017, 06:10 AM
The ATT as a condition is non standard.

It became standard with the coming into force of the ATT provision in C-42. It is indeed standard (until the Libs remove it).

Petamocto
04-02-2017, 06:13 AM
Back to Mr Blaney, I think most of us can agree that Blaney had a part of moving the ball down the field in the right direction.

We also know that a first down is not enough for CLW45; either the quarterback throws a hail mary touchdown every play or CLW45 will assess their performance as useless.

speedloader
04-02-2017, 07:46 AM
It became standard with the coming into force of the ATT provision in C-42. It is indeed standard (until the Libs remove it).

yes, I went up to my CFO last year (after Selphie the clown was elected) at the big gun show here in april and asked,
do I need to carry my att paper work again?
He said no it is still an automatic condition of your RPAL until further notice.

CLW .45
04-02-2017, 08:51 AM
It became standard with the coming into force of the ATT provision in C-42. It is indeed standard (until the Libs remove it).

It is in my hand as I write.

"SPECIAL CONDITIONS

These licence conditions authorize the transport..."

The only STANDARD CONDITION is that you must inform the CFO of name and address change.

RangeBob
04-02-2017, 09:01 AM
Right after Bill C42, the first thousand or so that asked for new RPALs with the new Standard Conditions, got a new licence card and a new piece of conditions paper. Then the Canadian Firearms Program stopped doing that, and the RCMP website started telling everyone that most were automatically attached to the licence depending upon if they had a restricted, and one more if they were a member of a range.

I have some photos, all dated Sept 2015.


Here's the first guy's (personal information obviously edited):
http://www.rangebob.com/Canada/C42RpalLicenceConditions1.jpg
http://www.rangebob.com/Canada/C42RpalLicenceConditions2.jpg
http://www.rangebob.com/Canada/C42RpalLicenceConditions3.jpg


and here's the second guy's from British Columbia
http://www.rangebob.com/Canada/C42RpalLicenceConditions4_BC_SCN_0001.jpg
http://www.rangebob.com/Canada/C42RpalLicenceConditions4_BC_SCN_0002.jpg


Another got an accompanying letter, with the text we've all seen before, even though lots have phoned the Canadian Firearms Program office and got an official who says the exact opposite (they're standard, fixed text by regulation, leave them at home).
http://www.rangebob.com/Canada/BillC42KeepLicenceConditionsWithLicenceAtAllTimes. jpg


The 1998 police handbook described it like this, although I think the CFOs may be resisting this definition.
http://www.rangebob.com/Canada/Policehandbooklicconditions_2_zps2a665a19.jpg

speedloader
04-02-2017, 09:14 AM
oh you gotta love the CFP its so clear as mud is almost clear,
good thing we have these laws or .....it might get confusing sometimes

must be just absolute hell on the criminals ........trying to follow all this ...
every time they call the cfo they get a different answer on how to transport their firearms for various crimes
gotta be just nerve racking

Doug_M
04-02-2017, 11:35 AM
It is in my hand as I write.

"SPECIAL CONDITIONS

These licence conditions authorize the transport..."

The only STANDARD CONDITION is that you must inform the CFO of name and address change.

You can say that until you are blue in the face. But that doesn't change the reality for myself and the others who've posted here saying that their respective CFO's say the ATT is attached as standard conditions, not special.

And I will ask again (just to make a point), does anyone know of anyone who only has "standard conditions apply" on their PAL who has been asked to provide the conditions sheet? Anyone?

CLW .45
04-15-2017, 02:24 PM
You can say that until you are blue in the face. But that doesn't change the reality for myself and the others who've posted here saying that their respective CFO's say the ATT is attached as standard conditions, not special.

And I will ask again (just to make a point), does anyone know of anyone who only has "standard conditions apply" on their PAL who has been asked to provide the conditions sheet? Anyone?

For what it is worth:



Actually section 117.11 of the Criminal code of Canada.

Onus on the accused (Firearms offenses)

117.11 Where, in any proceedings for an offence under any of sections 89, 90, 91, 93, 97, 101, 104 and 105, any question arises as to whether a person is the holder of an authorization, a licence or a registration certificate, the onus is on the accused to prove that the person is the holder of the authorization, licence or registration certificate.

1995, c. 39, s. 139.


Who among us trusts the government sufficiently, that when charged with having a restricted firearm / prohibited handgun in a place that we are not authorized to have it, to rely on a government agent to testify that we had a condition attached?

And yes, in relatively free Alberta, the condition sheet is still included when the licence is issued / renewed.

Doug_M
04-15-2017, 03:00 PM
For what it is worth:

I carry my PAL and registration certificates so that isn't worth much.


Who among us trusts the government sufficiently, that when charged with having a restricted firearm / prohibited handgun in a place that we are not authorized to have it, to rely on a government agent to testify that we had a condition attached?

There are a myriad of ways one could be "punished by process". I carry insurance to protect me from such punishment. I recommend all gun owners do, even those who carry their attached conditions.

CLW .45
12-18-2017, 10:19 PM
He did a hell of a lot more for us then the present knob

For us and to us.

But, that isn’t the point.

The last time I was stung by a bee, there were several in the vicinity and none of the others stung me.

But, they were all bees.

speedloader
12-19-2017, 06:01 AM
agreed ,CL the whole thing is wrong and a complete violation of our human rights period

but.... and only but because its Blaney he showed us some level of respect
by getting his license at least so he could understand the process
that's a hell of a lot more than any Libtard anti will ever do ,
they won't even bother to read the firearms act never mind C42 they have no idea what it says
and spread total bullshit based on nothing but fear and emotion

Until we all stand together as a huge group which would scare the crap out of the Liberals
because they have really no idea how many of us their really are and we said



5486

and we bust our hump to insure the conservatives manage to get back in and scrap the BS
we are going to be victims of these idiots for ever

SIR VEYOR
12-19-2017, 07:21 AM
For us and to us.

But, that isn’t the point.

The last time I was stung by a bee, there were several in the vicinity and none of the others stung me.

But, they were all bees.

Same logic Ms. Provost and others can apply to us.

chuckbuster
12-19-2017, 07:59 AM
That's a good question because I have not received a "conditions" sheet from the CFP. I'm certainly not going to go find "generic" conditions on the internet and print them out. I'm satisfied with the CFO's answer that I don't need to carry them.

Anecdotally, does anyone know of anyone who was ever asked by a policeman or CO for a copy of their conditions?

Last year I was stopped by the local constabulary while bird hunting and asked to produce my PAL. I showed him the card and that was the end of it. I have yet to hear of anybody being asked for the little piece of paper.

CLW .45
12-19-2017, 08:08 PM
agreed ,CL the whole thing is wrong and a complete violation of our human rights period

but.... and only but because its Blaney he showed us some level of respect
by getting his license at least so he could understand the process
that's a hell of a lot more than any Libtard anti will ever do ,
they won't even bother to read the firearms act never mind C42 they have no idea what it says
and spread total bullshit based on nothing but fear and emotion

Until we all stand together as a huge group which would scare the crap out of the Liberals
because they have really no idea how many of us their really are and we said



5486

and we bust our hump to insure the conservatives manage to get back in and scrap the BS
we are going to be victims of these idiots for ever

I’ll leave it to you to decide how Goodale’s decision to bring the grace period on licence expiry - from C-42 - into force compares with Blaney’s passing of that law.

The law itself hurt us as much as it helped.

But, I have strayed far from the point now.

When a politician tells me how bad his opponent is, without acknowledging his failures, I do what seems appropriate to educate him. If his feelings are hurt, tough, facts don’t care about his feelings.