Shipping a restricted

[Kobs]

I didn't know where to put this but since very knowledgeable members also pick through here I thought why not.

I never sold a restricted (online) . How would someone go about shipping the firearm? I'm in QC, what if someone from BC wants it, do I add shipping costs to the price, what carrier to use, (some give more problems than others) Gun box has to be locked, do I mail the new owner the keys? Stupid I know but like I said, I'm new at this and I have one to sell and I don't want to limit myself to local sale.

Thanks for any advice ;)

[blacksmithden]

The best way to go is to include shipping. If you don't, you're going to get 10 tire kickers asking you how much to ship to xyz. Put down that you'll offer a discount (price of shipping) for a local sale. GET THE MONEY BEFORE CALLING IN AND STARTING A TRANSFER !!!)

Put a trigger lock on it. Put it in a box or case that fairly sturdy (read: can't be broken open easily). Don't put any markings on the outside of it that indicate there's a gun inside (brown paper wrapper type stuff). Ship via Canada Post, registered/signature required.

It does not have to be in a locked gun box. I've received restricted forearms right from dealers with just the little screw together type trigger locks and nothing more. The whole idea of trigger locks and locked plastic boxes providing security of any kind is a complete farce anyway. The cheapest method is to cable tie the trigger back. Put it in a good sturdy cardboard box with LOTS lot padding so the heathens at Canada Post don't damage anything. Put lots of tape on the box, including all the corners to lessen the chance of it being accidently broken open (see: Can Post heathens again). Name address, and return address only on the outside. Do NOT write : fragile: gun inside, or anything of the sort. If the folks at the post office ask what it is, tell them it's a car part. It's nobody's business that you're shipping a gun through Canada Post, and it's the ONLY legal way to ship restricted stuff in Canada.

[magnumsmith]

I have received 3 firearms recently from different dealers. All three came in their original box, unlocked and the boxes wrapped in brown paper with just my name and address. I had to sign for them of course so they had been registered. One dealer in Quebec would not send me the firearm until I had received my registration certificate from the CFO. The other 2 came before the certificates. Two of the dealers had included shipping in the price (so I don't know the cost) the other charged $40.00. All came through Canada Post as blacksmithden stated. Money first I guess.

[Kobs]

^^^ If the gun was registered to you (according to the transfer) why would he keep YOUR gun till you received your proof or registration?
Sorry for asking questions I already have the answer (@ coverage)

[Kobs]

Anyone took insurance on the packages?
I don't think they will insure for more than $500 what of the rest?

[Justice]

"...include shipping..." And insurance.
"Fragile" means "Throw this." in Postal Latin. "Gun inside." means "Steal this." Like blacksmithden says, what's in the package is not their business.

[cobrajr122]

Anyone took insurance on the packages?
I don't think they will insure for more than $500 what of the rest?

I always add insurance(and signature), its something like $1.50 per $100, express and priority come with $100 insurance automatically, but still always ask for it anyways.
Pretty sure the max insurance is a few thousand.

[Kobs]

So as plain as possible, shipped Canada post, insured for the price the new buyer paid for (just in case) and hope for the best .

In case of package lost, What happens? Who has to file, shipper or receiver? Is there a time limit before filing?
Does it have to be reported to authorities as a stolen firearm?

[JustBen]

So as plain as possible, shipped Canada post, insured for the price the new buyer paid for (just in case) and hope for the best .

In case of package lost, What happens? Who has to file, shipper or receiver? Is there a time limit before filing?
Does it have to be reported to authorities as a stolen firearm?

Sender always has to file. Signature on delivery to prevent fraud.

[Kobs]

It does not have to be in a locked gun box. I've received restricted forearms right from dealers with just the little screw together type trigger locks and nothing more. The whole idea of trigger locks and locked plastic boxes providing security of any kind is a complete farce anyway. The cheapest method is to cable tie the trigger back. Put it in a good sturdy cardboard box with LOTS lot padding so the heathens at Canada Post don't damage anything. Put lots of tape on the box, including all the corners to lessen the chance of it being accidently broken open (see: Can Post heathens again). Name address, and return address only on the outside. Do NOT write : fragile: gun inside, or anything of the sort. If the folks at the post office ask what it is, tell them it's a car part. It's nobody's business that you're shipping a gun through Canada Post, and it's the ONLY legal way to ship restricted stuff in Canada.

I was going to use cheap combination lock and trigger lock and send the numbers through e-mail just to be "law compliant". I have the original gun case so that's out of the way. I never told the truth when they asked me what was in the packages anyways loll. For this I was thinking clutch disk lol

[RangeBob]

Only ship to the address on the PAL that the CFC has verified.

(You might put the TO address on both sides. A technique for theft is to cover the shipping label with a sticker while in transit, and then the post office delivers it to the thief's address)

[Kobs]

^^^ Good point, I'm guessing when you call for the transfer they tell you the addy of the RPAL owner too right? The license could be stolen or used as a straw purchase (someone buys it and tells you to send it to someone else with no RPAL)

[JustBen]

I always tell them "it's just some sporting goods" - my local post office lady thinks I play a lot of golf.

[RangeBob]

^^^ Good point, I'm guessing when you call for the transfer they tell you the addy of the RPAL owner too right?

Presumably when you get the PAL# from the buyer, the buyer will also give you their address.
Indeed it would be odd for the buyer to give you money without an address to ship it to.

You give both (and other stuff) to the CFC, and let them verify it all.

[Forbes/Hutton]

Write "Liberal Party Printed Material" on the box. No one will steal it.

[Kobs]

Oh, ok i was under the impression that when you call to start the transfer and give the PAL# of the buyer, THEY would give you an address to verify. Same thing
Yeah if the guy sends me money without giving me an address, it would be odd no doubt lol

[blacksmithden]

When the buyer calls in to complete the transfer, the CFC will ask them their town/city of birth. That's one of their trip up checks. If the person can't answer, the transfer won't go forward, and will no doubt be flagged for investigation of some type. You need to wait for a mail notification that the transfer has been completed. You can then send them their firearm.

As far as insurance goes.....it isn't worth a ball of spit if the sender can't prove how much the item was valued at. In your case, you would need to provide an original sales receipt for the gun. If you don't have that, you're going to have one hell of a fight on your hands. Of course, they never seem to mention that. I can only think of once that I've bought shipping insurance from Canada Post, and it wasn't for a gun.

If a restricted firearm doesn't show up, and CP is just giving you the "too bad so sad" routine, start asking for names and addresses and inform them what was in the package. Tell them you need the information for when you call into the RCMP to report it, and that they will no doubt be investigating what happened to the package. It's kind of amazing how things mysteriously turn up when the cops get involved with their internal BS.

[Kobs]

I do have the original receipt from the store I bought it from it was new, but what if I told them it was say a clutch disk loll

Thank you all, specially blacksmithden for the great info you provided. In just a few posts I've learned a lot on how to do things and specially what not to do. Thanks for sharing your knowledge it's greatly appreciated.

[blacksmithden]

I do have the original receipt from the store I bought it from it was new, but what if I told them it was say a clutch disk loll

Thank you all, specially blacksmithden for the great info you provided. In just a few posts I've learned a lot on how to do things and specially what not to do. Thanks for sharing your knowledge it's greatly appreciated.

You could always say that it's "sporting goods". Wouldn't be a lie, and it's vague enough that they wouldn't be able to guess what's in it.

[TheCenturion]

I didn't see it mentioned here, but I believe you also must still ship firearms ground. Watching the tracking on a package from BC to Ontario slowly update over a week or so while 'The Littlest Hobo' theme plays in my head, or sometimes 'The Lonely Man' piano theme from the Incredible Hulk TV show, is a sad, sad thing.

[RangeBob]

You may ship restricted firearms, non-restricted firearms and prohibited handguns from one Canadian location to another Canadian location if you use the most secure method offered by Canada Post that requires a signature upon delivery. Prohibited firearms, other than prohibited handguns, and firearms being shipped across the Canadian border, must be shipped by an individual or carrier company licensed under the Firearms Act to transport those classes of firearms.
You are required by law to ship firearms unloaded and in a safe and secure manner to deter loss, theft and accidents.
-- RCMP

A firearm cannot be shipped to another country by Canada Post. Instead, a carrier company licensed to transport firearms under the Firearms Act must be used.
-- RCMP


Shipping by Post
16 An individual may ship a firearm by posting it only if
(a) the firearm is a non-restricted firearm, restricted firearm or prohibited handgun;
(b) the destination is within Canada; and
(c) the firearm is posted using the most secure means of transmission by post that is offered by the Canada Post Corporation that includes the requirement to obtain a signature on delivery.
-- http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/PDF/SOR-98-209.pdf

[TheCenturion]

You may ship restricted firearms, non-restricted firearms and prohibited handguns from one Canadian location to another Canadian location if you use the most secure method offered by Canada Post that requires a signature upon delivery. Prohibited firearms, other than prohibited handguns, and firearms being shipped across the Canadian border, must be shipped by an individual or carrier company licensed under the Firearms Act to transport those classes of firearms.
You are required by law to ship firearms unloaded and in a safe and secure manner to deter loss, theft and accidents.
-- RCMP

A firearm cannot be shipped to another country by Canada Post. Instead, a carrier company licensed to transport firearms under the Firearms Act must be used.
-- RCMP


Shipping by Post
16 An individual may ship a firearm by posting it only if
(a) the firearm is a non-restricted firearm, restricted firearm or prohibited handgun;
(b) the destination is within Canada; and
(c) the firearm is posted using the most secure means of transmission by post that is offered by the Canada Post Corporation that includes the requirement to obtain a signature on delivery.
-- http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/PDF/SOR-98-209.pdf



Firearms cannot be shipped via air and cannot have any markings on the outside of the packaging. The customer is solely responsible for meeting all Canadian Firearms Centre regulations.
-- https://www.canadapost.ca/tools/pg/manual/PGnonmail-e.asp#1389620

It's a Canada Post requirement, not a Criminal Code requirement.

[glockfan]

i've sold quite a few guns in the last few years, what i do is i remove the slide but leave the recoil spring and GR assembly as is in the slide. i wrap the slide alone in cling wrap , wrap the top of the frame so the inside isn't exposed to foreign matters, then put an empty mag inserted in...done and safe.

as for the package description it is not canada post business, so fragile tools or whatever comes to mind, and i'm asking the buyer to get extra insurance since it cost 2.50 dollards for each 100$ in extra .express with sig comes with a 100$ insurance, but in case of restricted sure enough i will never get a gun expedited to me without it being fully covered.

[graz]

The only thing I see not mentioned here is whether you need a STATT to pick up the package at the post office and drive home with it, or if the seller needs an ATT to get the package containing a restricted to the post office.

Check the wording on your LT ATT to see if you are within the letter of the law?

[RangeBob]

The only thing I see not mentioned here is whether you need a STATT to pick up the package at the post office and drive home with it, or if the seller needs an ATT to get the package containing a restricted to the post office.

Check the wording on your LT ATT to see if you are within the letter of the law?

The seller needs an ATT to bring the firearm to the post office.

The buyer does not need an ATT to bring the firearm from the post office to their home, because that's covered in the RPAL conditions these days. The buyer can pick up a recently purchased firearm from anywhere, and bring it home; with permission from their RPAL conditions these days.

[DBenn]

I received a revolver from Aztech Armory the other day through Canada Post.
It was delivered to my door and since I wasn't home at the time my wife signed fro the package.

No fuss no muss.

[awndray]

In theory, one could conceivably not know what is in the package. Getting an ATT to pick up something you can't identify wouldn't make sense.

[TheCenturion]

In theory, one could conceivably not know what is in the package. Getting an ATT to pick up something you can't identify wouldn't make sense.

This. The firearm basically magically stops being a firearm, legally speaking, as long as it's entrusted to the Canada Post Corporation; they're able to transport, store, and hand it out, with no PAL required, no ATT required.

So, you need an ATT to bring it to the Canada Post office, as it's a firearm. You give it to them, and pay for shipping, and it's no longer a firearm. They transport it, you're not home, they leave a pickup slip. It's still in their care, it's still magically not a firearm, kinda, sorta. You aren't going to call the RCMP every time you have a pickup slip and ask for an ATT, that would be silly. So you go to the post office, pick up your completely unmarked package that you have no way of knowing is a firearm, and drive it home. Open it up, and surprise, it's now a firearm that you require a PAL and possibly ATT (now bundled into your RPAL) for.

So, this is where it gets tricky. Lets say you've bought a handgun online, and it's shipped to you. You get a pickup slip, and go to the post office. You take it out of the post office, get in your car, and being all excited to find out what you got in the mail, open it. Surprise, you are now in possession of a restricted firearm; you'd best have trigger or cable lock, lockable opaque case that's hard to get into, blah blah blah. But you're already in violation of your ATT, because you don't have permission to have it out of it's container in the parking lot of the post office. Also, it's supposed to be in your trunk.

If you don't open it, though, could you, in theory, pick it up first thing in the morning, drive to work, leave the package sitting on your front seat, and go about your day?. After all, you don't know it's a firearm. You're legally barred from *knowing* until you open it; there can't be any markings or any way to tell it's a firearm.

Silly, ain't it?

[RobertMcC]

If you plan to sell alot of guns or even a couple. Next time you order from can ammo, put 10 of those cheap plastic trigger locks on your order for 10$.

Or buy a cheap cable lock.

Nobody getting into a restricted I shipped w/o a box cutter/knife, side snips and 10mins. Because I use alot of tape, zip ties and locks.

[IJ22]

you'd best have trigger or cable lock, lockable opaque case that's hard to get into, blah blah blah

....or a roll of packing tape. :)

[RobertMcC]

....or a roll of packing tape. :)

Or all of the above. Whoever getting my NP34 is going to hate me. Cable lock, zip ties, duct tape, packing tape.

[Booletsnotreactwell]

One thing I never understood with restricted transfers is why sellers want the money first.

If I'm serious about buying and have clearly stated that I agree to buy it for the said price, can't the restricted transfer process be used as a sort of insurance for the buyer, especially if buying from a first time/unknown seller?


Have the seller initiate the transfer, once you call in to complete it and it's pending approval/completion THEN you send the money. It gives the buyer some insurance since he knows the item is actually in possession of the seller and in the process of being transferred and if the buyer doesn't pay up can't the seller call the CFC/RCMP to revoke the transfer since the money/payment part of the contractual obligation wasn't fulfilled?

[Likeaboss]

One thing I never understood with restricted transfers is why sellers want the money first.

If I'm serious about buying and have clearly stated that I agree to buy it for the said price, can't the restricted transfer process be used as a sort of insurance for the buyer, especially if buying from a first time/unknown seller?


Have the seller initiate the transfer, once you call in to complete it and it's pending approval/completion THEN you send the money. It gives the buyer some insurance since he knows the item is actually in possession of the seller and in the process of being transferred and if the buyer doesn't pay up can't the seller call the CFC/RCMP to revoke the transfer since the money/payment part of the contractual obligation wasn't fulfilled?
What if the buyer disagrees with the seller's assertion that they didn't pay up? The CFC/RCMP isn't an escrow service with all that entails, including commercial dispute resolution.

[Kobs]

Or all of the above. Whoever getting my NP34 is going to hate me. Cable lock, zip ties, duct tape, packing tape.

I would rather have more than not enough

[TheCenturion]

One thing I never understood with restricted transfers is why sellers want the money first.

If I'm serious about buying and have clearly stated that I agree to buy it for the said price, can't the restricted transfer process be used as a sort of insurance for the buyer, especially if buying from a first time/unknown seller?


Have the seller initiate the transfer, once you call in to complete it and it's pending approval/completion THEN you send the money. It gives the buyer some insurance since he knows the item is actually in possession of the seller and in the process of being transferred and if the buyer doesn't pay up can't the seller call the CFC/RCMP to revoke the transfer since the money/payment part of the contractual obligation wasn't fulfilled?

To transfer a restricted requires agreement from both parties. The person currently on record as the owner initiates the transfer, the receiver must verify and accept.

So, you transfer your firearm to Johnny Q Badactor, and he accepts. He is now the registered owner of a firearm, and refuses to pay you.

You have no recourse. You can't call the RCMP and cancel the transfer; it's done, and you no longer own that firearm. You are now in possession of a restricted firearm not registered to you.

Sure, you can go to court to get your money, but in the meantime, you either have to send the firearm along, or remain in possession of the firearm, in which case Johnny calls the RCMP and so informs them.

On the other hand, if he pays you, and you don't actually transfer the firearm, he can take you to court, but at least, as you, in theory, never initiated the transfer, nobody is breaking firearms possession laws.

If you don't trust the guy you're buying a firearm from, use an actual escrow service.