PDA

View Full Version : Ontario businesses eye fleeing over minimum wage hike



soulchaser
07-21-2017, 10:10 PM
Ontario businesses eye fleeing over minimum wage hike

TORONTO - One-third of small and medium Ontario businesses are considering selling, moving to the U.S. or closing shop in response to provincial government plans to hike the minimum wage to $15 an hour, a Canadian Federation of Independent Business (CIFB) poll of its members revealed.

The organization, which is raising red flags about plans to move from the current minimum wage of $11.40 an hour to $15 an hour by Jan. 1 2019, asked its members what actions they were considering to adapt to the series of hikes.

Julie Kwiecinski, CFIB’s director of provincial affairs for Ontario, said the online survey was launched Monday, and by Thursday morning had received 3,533 responses.

“If a whopping 34% of small- and medium-sized businesses are even thinking about selling, closing or moving on the basis of policy changes in just one area, I think that speaks volume,” Kwiecinski said Thursday. “I hope the government seriously listens to this survey and what are members are saying.”

The Kathleen Wynne government has announced that the current minimum wage of $11.40 an hour will rise to $11.60 an hour on Oct. 1, to $14 an hour on Jan. 1, to $15 an hour the following Jan. 1, and then rise by the rate of inflation annually.

Liberal MPP Ted McMeekin tweeted Thursday in response to a radio debate on the issue that wages need to keep up with people’s costs, but instead the “gap is growing.”

Although the move has been hailed as a needed and positive step by anti-poverty activists, unions and other groups, many smaller businesses have expressed dismay.

According to the CFIB survey of its members, 66% are considering raising their prices, 64% might reduce hiring of new employees, 53% might reduce their employees’ hours and 43% might cut the number of employees.

About one-quarter of those surveyed will look at cutting their own pay and reducing staff training.

Many employers, 34%, believe they will have to increase the wages of employees who currently earn $15 or more an hour.

This is called “wage compression” - when the wage of new or lesser skilled employees rises, the salaries of longer term or more skilled workers also have to increase.

A strong majority of businesses say the government should have conducted an employment and economic analysis before increasing the minimum wage, and release the results publicly.

Most businesses said the government could have addressed poverty by reducing provincial personal income tax rates for low-income earners, increase the provincial basic personal income tax exemption or invest in skills training to help move people into higher-paying jobs.

“Some people want to polarize (the debate) – that you either want to help people or you don’t,” Kwiecinski said. “We’re saying if the government is really serious about helping the low-wage earners, they would put more of their own skin in the game.”

http://www.torontosun.com/2017/07/21/ontario-businesses-eye-fleeing-over-minimum-wage-hike

soulchaser
07-21-2017, 10:12 PM
Liberal MPP Ted McMeekin tweeted Thursday in response to a radio debate on the issue that wages need to keep up with people’s costs, but instead the “gap is growing.”


The gap is growing because your government keeps adding to peoples costs, you f--king dips--t.

soulchaser
07-21-2017, 10:14 PM
Many employers, 34%, believe they will have to increase the wages of employees who currently earn $15 or more an hour.

This is called “wage compression” - when the wage of new or lesser skilled employees rises, the salaries of longer term or more skilled workers also have to increase.



And that's why so many unions support a $15 minimum wage. They know THEIR wages will increase.

wolver
07-21-2017, 10:23 PM
There will be no more full time positions in retail, when minimum wage reaches 15 bucks.

Swampdonkey
07-21-2017, 10:30 PM
There will be no more full time positions in retail, when minimum wage reaches 15 bucks.

Retailers need to innovate anyway. Automated order pickers would be the way to shop.

Not that I support this useless government intrusion.

Forbes/Hutton
07-21-2017, 10:40 PM
There will be no more full time positions in retail, when minimum wage reaches 15 bucks.

It's not just a min. wage increase, the rules for P/T will tighten, part timers will have to be given benefits on par with F/T and there will be restrictions on part-timer use.

And even with the law about to change, the LCBO and gaming staff at Woodbine racetrack went on strike because up to 80% of the staff are part time. It doesn't occur to these small union minds that if the LCBO is forced to go with nothing but full timers then 40% of the current staff will lose their jobs, by some magic leftist math they think everyone will keep their job and move to full time hours and benefits. In a couple of months the media will be all over the crying LCBO workers saying they'd rather have the 25 hours a week at $25 an hour than the lay-off notice they got, and even if the min wage goes to $15 they'll be making $25 less a week but having to work 40 hours for it. Greed and stupidity don't mix well...

M1917 Enfield
07-21-2017, 10:51 PM
My brother in law said this was the last straw and just sold his mid sized business that he took over from his dad 20 years before hand, he employed 8 full and 3 part time people! 3 of his long time employees resigned as soon as he told them he had sold the business and they would not be getting the same generous perks anymore that he was giving them, like paying for their gym memberships, staff golf days, paid family staff parties and pizza and beer staff work events and decent Christmas bonuses.

He told me it is not worth the headache and BS running a small business in Ontario anymore. He now works as a consultant/customer sales and as manager for the new hands off owner who bought it from him.

He used the large sum buyout to do a major renovation of his home and pay off the mortgages on his 13 rental properties.

Strewth
07-21-2017, 11:02 PM
The last line of the article speaks volumes. Where are the tax reductions if the government is serious? Downloading costs onto the most tax-productive group in society is so counterintuitive it could only be hailed as a panacea by a Liberal government. What a shortsighted, vote-buying, straw-grasping, economy-destroying move.
We deal with the CFIB at work, they seem like the real deal, and lobby hard for realistic changes to our idiotic top-heavy system.

wolver
07-22-2017, 05:47 AM
It's not just a min. wage increase, the rules for P/T will tighten, part timers will have to be given benefits on par with F/T and there will be restrictions on part-timer use.

And even with the law about to change, the LCBO and gaming staff at Woodbine racetrack went on strike because up to 80% of the staff are part time. It doesn't occur to these small union minds that if the LCBO is forced to go with nothing but full timers then 40% of the current staff will lose their jobs, by some magic leftist math they think everyone will keep their job and move to full time hours and benefits. In a couple of months the media will be all over the crying LCBO workers saying they'd rather have the 25 hours a week at $25 an hour than the lay-off notice they got, and even if the min wage goes to $15 they'll be making $25 less a week but having to work 40 hours for it. Greed and stupidity don't mix well...

LCBO should be abolished immediately and liquor sold in grocery/convenience, stores like it is now in smaller towns. Absolutely no need for government to be involved in liquor sales, it only jacks up the price.
In states where liquor is sold in Walmart, I can afford to drink JD regularly. In Ontario, I have to drink cheap sherry to get an affordable buzz.

RangeBob
07-22-2017, 09:55 AM
Beer and wine are available at many grocery stores in Ontario.

I don't think I've seen liquor for sale at a grocery store yet. As of Oct 2016, the LCBO's 654 outlets are maintaining a monopoly on liquor products.

DeisEcks
07-22-2017, 10:17 AM
I've gotten so tired of the LCBO and Beer Store I switched to home brewing or going straight to the source. Surprising how much more you save doing that. 5 Gallons of beer costs me 40-50 bucks of ingredients. So worth it.

SeirX
07-22-2017, 03:06 PM
Outside of specific clauses in union-deals, there's no law saying wages go up commensurate with minimum wage increases... smart owners understand that if someone can make the same [or maybe a little less] money at a job with less stress or responsibility, they'll likely lose workers because hey, being paid similar/slightly less for a whole lot less headache? Who wouldn't take that?

What I don't understand is that, with the experience and findings from a few states in the US and ...I can't recall the European country that tried this... of how bad this actually hits the area, people and economies...why are liberals still going full-retard on this??

@Strewth makes a point - what about the taxes?
There's a good difference between $11.25/hour at say, 37.5hours/week and $15/hour at the same number of hours-worked. More deductions taken off...more taxes back in the coffers... if the government was absolute serious about making citizens' lives better, lessen the impact of the tax brackets, or at least, shift them commensurate with the wage increases. I've yet to read or hear anything about tax brackets being moved to help folks with the new wage if-and-or-when it is enforced.

Zinilin
07-22-2017, 06:00 PM
Currently in Ontario a pound of sliced bacon costs about 30 minutes at minimum wage.
In 2020 I expect in Ontario a pound of sliced bacon will cost about 30 minutes at minimum wage.

Wage increases Cause inflation.

Grey_Wolf
07-22-2017, 11:51 PM
Outside of specific clauses in union-deals, there's no law saying wages go up commensurate with minimum wage increases... smart owners understand that if someone can make the same [or maybe a little less] money at a job with less stress or responsibility, they'll likely lose workers because hey, being paid similar/slightly less for a whole lot less headache? Who wouldn't take that?

What I don't understand is that, with the experience and findings from a few states in the US and ...I can't recall the European country that tried this... of how bad this actually hits the area, people and economies...why are liberals still going full-retard on this??

@Strewth makes a point - what about the taxes?
There's a good difference between $11.25/hour at say, 37.5hours/week and $15/hour at the same number of hours-worked. More deductions taken off...more taxes back in the coffers... if the government was absolute serious about making citizens' lives better, lessen the impact of the tax brackets, or at least, shift them commensurate with the wage increases. I've yet to read or hear anything about tax brackets being moved to help folks with the new wage if-and-or-when it is enforced.

Ah, you may be on to something..... It couldn't be about the money (for the government) could it?

firemachine69
07-23-2017, 11:28 AM
I've got twenty-two liters of homemade wine in a carboy, freshly filtered, ready to go for our wedding in three weeks.

This is how you get around the corking fee and sin taxes at a hall, folks. ;D

tripwires
07-23-2017, 06:44 PM
Another attempt by Wynne to get votes for the up coming election. She is pandering to pretty much everyone.

RangeBob
07-23-2017, 06:51 PM
Another attempt by Wynne to get votes for the up coming election. She is pandering to pretty much everyone.

But it's getting harder to spend a couple billion dollars of Ontarian's money for vote buying, without everyone noticing.

A billion to shut down a power plant or two,
a billion to teachers,
a billion to unions,
a billion to some US company so that they'll retain 300 jobs for 3 monhts,
a billion in 20 year contracts to green energy companies who are likely to appoint Wynne or her significant other to the board with stock options when she retires from government service,
a billion to parents for tuition,
a billion to level their hydro expenses,
a billion to reduce their natural gas expenses,
a billion to lower their car insurance rates,
a billion to keep their rent low,
a billion to postpone gasoline taxes,
a billion to reduce their provincial income taxes (i.e. the province to take out loans instead of collecting revenue for the next four years),
a billion for a retirement fund,
a 100 million to the lollypop guild, and
a promise to lower the HST by 9% due to a deal with justin but only if the Ontario Liberals retain a majority.

Assuming that the Ontario government gets 15% of what everyone here makes, she'd have to spend 7 years of provincial revenue every year to buy everyone's vote -- so short of that, there is a tipping point between those whose votes you've bought (and are happy), and votes of those who've paid (and are furious to the point they'd vote for The People's Political Party (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Ontario).

Waterloomike
07-23-2017, 06:58 PM
But it's getting harder to spend a couple billion dollars of Ontarian's money for vote buying, without everyone noticing.

A billion to shut down a power plant or two,
a billion to teachers,
a billion to unions,
a billion to some US company so that they'll retain 300 jobs for 3 monhts,
a billion in 20 year contracts to green energy companies who are likely to appoint Wynne or her significant other to the board with stock options when she retires from government service,
a billion to parents for tuition,
a billion to level their hydro expenses,
a billion to reduce their natural gas expenses,
a billion to lower their car insurance rates,
a billion to keep their rent low,
a billion to postpone gasoline taxes,
a billion to reduce their provincial income taxes (i.e. the province to take out loans instead of collecting revenue for the next four years),
a billion for a retirement fund,
a 100 million to the lollypop guild, and
a promise to lower the HST by 9% due to a deal with justin but only if the Ontario Liberals retain a majority.

Assuming that the Ontario government gets 15% of what everyone here makes, she'd have to spend 7 years of provincial revenue every year to buy everyone's vote -- so short of that, there is a tipping point between those whose votes you've bought (and are happy), and votes of those who've paid (and are furious to the point they'd vote for The People's Political Party (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Ontario).


And who knows how much to cover up heir crime, scandal and corruption.

Swampdonkey
07-23-2017, 07:41 PM
And who knows how much to cover up heir crime, scandal and corruption.

We'll understand it better by and by . .

RangeBob
07-23-2017, 07:57 PM
And who knows how much to cover up heir crime, scandal and corruption.

Might come out during Gerald Butts' possible divorce, when the wife details them and wants half.



Gerald Butts is the nephew of a former Canadian senator, the Hon. Mary Alice "Peggy" Butts, whom he cites as major influence on him throughout his life.

Peggy was a Roman Catholic nun in the Sisters of Notre Dame order. She obtained several degrees, as a B.A. degree in philosophy, a B.A. degree in education, a M.A. degree in political philosophy from the University of Ottawa, and a Ph.D. degree in political philosophy from the University of Toronto. Through her life she served as a schoolteacher and high school principal. Later she was a professor at St. Francis Xavier University and the University College of Cape Breton (now Cape Breton University).

At the age of 73, Peggy was appointed to the Canadian Senate. However, qualification laws for senators caused problems with her appointment. All Canadian senators are required to possess land worth at least $4,000 in the province for which he or she is appointed, as well as own real and personal property worth at least $4,000, above his or her debts and liabilities. Having taken a vow of poverty upon becoming a nun, Butts was able to officially be sworn in only after her order formally transferred a small parcel of land to her name. Butts resigned at the age of 75 as required by law, and for her two years of service donated her entire salary to charity.

Peggy Butts died at age 79 in 2004

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peggy_Butts

Waterloomike
07-23-2017, 08:03 PM
Well, how long has it been since the hard drive wiping, numerous OPP crimes and scandals and any number of other well connected crimes gone by the wayside?

I'm ever hopeful but always skeptical.

What's this about butts divorce?

RangeBob
07-23-2017, 08:12 PM
Well, how long has it been since the hard drive wiping, numerous OPP crimes and scandals and any number of other well connected crimes gone by the wayside?

As I recall, in Apr 2014 the OPP announced there was no evidence about the hydro plant emails being wiped, and then in Dec 2014 it was discovered that the fella who wiped the drives was paid $10,000.

Be afraid: The brains behind Ontario's energy disaster are now advising PM
Dec 07, 2016
Gerald Butts is heavy into the Environment and Climate Change.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/ontario-disaster-architects-1.3884108

After being instrumental in a couple of Ontario elections, Butt's became president and CEO of World Wildlife Fund Canada, before handing that position onto David Miller (former mayor of Toronto).



What's this about butts divorce?
He's currently married to one woman, a lawyer, Jodi (Heimpel) Butts. You may recall Butts and his wife charged about a hundred and thirty thousand dollars to the taxpayer so they relocate to from Toronto to Ottawa.

He's currently having an affair with Catharine McKenna (Minister of the Environment and Climate Change). (According to Strangeday on CGN, their spouses aren't happy)

I'm merely assuming that a divorce is a possibility.

Waterloomike
07-23-2017, 08:20 PM
As I recall, the OPP announced there was no evidence about the hydro plant emails being wiped in Apr 2014, and then in Dec 2014 it was discovered that the fella who wiped the drives was paid $10,000.

Be afraid: The brains behind Ontario's energy disaster are now advising PM
Dec 07, 2016
Gerald Butts is heavy into the Environment and Climate Change.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/ontario-disaster-architects-1.3884108


After being instrumental in a couple of Ontario elections, Butt's became president and CEO of World Wildlife Fund Canada, before handing that position onto David Miller (former mayor of Toronto).



He's currently married to one woman, a lawyer, Jodi (Heimpel) Butts. You may recall Butts and his wife charged about a hundred and thirty thousand dollars to the taxpayer so they relocate to from Toronto to Ottawa.

He's currently having an affair with Catharine McKenna (Minister of the Environment and Climate Change). (According to Strangeday on CGN, their spouses aren't happy)

I'm merely assuming that a divorce is a possibility.


What a great job, eff up so bad you ruin a huge, rich province and then you move up to a position where you can wipe out the whole country.

Well, this looks pretty bad. Too many people are deeply and profoundly in love with liberal lies.

How does strangeday know all this trash about trash?

Rory McCanuck
07-23-2017, 08:33 PM
How does strangeday know all this trash about trash?

It's what he does.

Waterloomike
07-23-2017, 08:37 PM
It's what he does.

What, he's a detective that goes about blabbing what he knows?

RangeBob
07-23-2017, 08:39 PM
What, he's a detective that goes about blabbing what he knows?

Actually, yes. That seems to be what he does.

When the federal Liberals took power he suddenly became silent for almost a year, but he's blabbing again the past few months.



Strangeday turned out to be Derek Snowdy, a private investigator at the centre of a political storm around the business dealings of former Conservative MPs Rahim Jaffer and Helena Guergis in 2010.
-- http://www.vancouversun.com/news/canada-in-afghanistan/Public+safety+groups+want+some+weapons+prohibited+ before+long+registry/5594876/story.html

Derrick Snowdy, an Ontario private investigator, is the former owner of Epic Protection Group Ltd., a now-defunct Toronto private investigation firm.
-- http://www.canadianlawyermag.com/4846/Hoodwinked.html

The man whose phone call brought down a cabinet minister is a former parking lot security specialist who suffered a spectacular bankruptcy last year and is known to boast of owning a tank and assault rifles.
Derrick Snowdy, 38, is described as a rogue by some he has worked with, and by others as a competent private investigator who delivered for his clients. He built a private security company with nearly 400 employees that did store detective work for major companies such as Shoppers Drug Mart and HMV, but the company went bankrupt in 2007.
Mr. Snowdy filed for personal bankruptcy two years later with more than $13-million in liabilities, including $2-million owed to Canada Revenue Agency, and slightly more than $11,000 in assets.
People familiar with Mr. Snowdy say that he has one of the largest private arsenals in Canada. One person said Mr. Snowdy, an avid shooter and gun club member, once brought a grenade launcher to work, and claimed to keep a tank in Alberta.
In an e-mail, Mr. Snowdy denied owning the grenade launcher and said he tried to buy the tank but couldn't.
-- Apr. 16, 2010 http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/private-investigator-at-centre-of-guergis-affair-owes-13-million/article4315294/
In his interview with the CBC, Snowdy dismissed the bankruptcy filing, saying it's not "real money" and was the result of an $11.9-million counterclaim to a lawsuit he filed against an employee terminated for gross misconduct. Additional liabilities included a penalty charge by the Canada Revenue Agency, which was later resolved.
-- Apr 18, 2010 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/guergis-scandal-focus-riles-private-eye-1.953645



Sometimes you have to nut up and realize that the sport and hobby are amazing fun...but the politics of it is a blood sport.
-- Strangeday;8926981

the old 51 Division in Toronto you could watch the drug dealing from the office window of the Supt's office....no kidding
-- Strangeday;9115088

I have heard some senior and well respected police officers and politicians refer to wendy as " that f u cking nut bag from Ryerson"
-- Strangeday;9180155

I had an casual conversation with a senior staff member of the PCO a few days ago and he laughed at the topic of gun control. "Everyone knows the issue of gun control is just politics, any politician who tells you it is about public safety is a liar. Hunters don't rob the corner store"
-- Strangeday, 2014/04/27

if you ever want the police to show up and take your alarm seriously then you name one of the alarm zones "firearms storage vault". Trust me...you get awesome police response.
-- Strangeday;247588

Waterloomike
07-23-2017, 08:45 PM
Actually, yes. That seems to be what he does.

When the federal Liberals took power he suddenly became silent for almost a year, but he's blabbing again the past few months.



Strangeday turned out to be Derek Snowdy, a private investigator at the centre of a political storm around the business dealings of former Conservative MPs Rahim Jaffer and Helena Guergis in 2010.
-- http://www.vancouversun.com/news/canada-in-afghanistan/Public+safety+groups+want+some+weapons+prohibited+ before+long+registry/5594876/story.html

Derrick Snowdy, an Ontario private investigator, is the former owner of Epic Protection Group Ltd., a now-defunct Toronto private investigation firm.
-- http://www.canadianlawyermag.com/4846/Hoodwinked.html

The man whose phone call brought down a cabinet minister is a former parking lot security specialist who suffered a spectacular bankruptcy last year and is known to boast of owning a tank and assault rifles.
Derrick Snowdy, 38, is described as a rogue by some he has worked with, and by others as a competent private investigator who delivered for his clients. He built a private security company with nearly 400 employees that did store detective work for major companies such as Shoppers Drug Mart and HMV, but the company went bankrupt in 2007.
Mr. Snowdy filed for personal bankruptcy two years later with more than $13-million in liabilities, including $2-million owed to Canada Revenue Agency, and slightly more than $11,000 in assets.
People familiar with Mr. Snowdy say that he has one of the largest private arsenals in Canada. One person said Mr. Snowdy, an avid shooter and gun club member, once brought a grenade launcher to work, and claimed to keep a tank in Alberta.
In an e-mail, Mr. Snowdy denied owning the grenade launcher and said he tried to buy the tank but couldn't.
-- Apr. 16, 2010 http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/private-investigator-at-centre-of-guergis-affair-owes-13-million/article4315294/
In his interview with the CBC, Snowdy dismissed the bankruptcy filing, saying it's not "real money" and was the result of an $11.9-million counterclaim to a lawsuit he filed against an employee terminated for gross misconduct. Additional liabilities included a penalty charge by the Canada Revenue Agency, which was later resolved.
-- Apr 18, 2010 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/guergis-scandal-focus-riles-private-eye-1.953645

It's not illegal to own an RPG. I know of one being sold in Kitchener from a now closed gun store.

That is one of the most interesting posts ever in the history of posts.

RangeBob
07-23-2017, 08:46 PM
I edited post #26 to add some old quotes to the end.

Waterloomike
07-23-2017, 08:50 PM
I edited post #26 to add some old quotes to the end.

Actually, i have had police officers show me drug deals taking place. Not big wheels, just ordinary cops.

But that was beyond interesting.

Thanks!