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View Full Version : Need help to identify a ww2 firearms.



crisse55
09-05-2017, 09:21 PM
Found it in abandoned house since 1991 in new-brunswick/canada,oppened it,cleaned it.The gun is missing the bolts.

all i know about the gun is
i think its short rifle
bolt action
overall lenght 41inch


(stamped)
-armaguerra
-cremona
-6.5mmx54
-1942-XX and i think there is another date on it (1947) but very small,hard to see
-17.5 tons per *square*
-serial number is:QC1820
-(*royal crown* RE) i think
-*royal crown* BNP
-on the stock H 1338 (7 between 3 and 8 but smaller)

crisse55
09-05-2017, 09:22 PM
more pic

lone-wolf
09-05-2017, 09:26 PM
sportered Carcano ?

crisse55
09-05-2017, 09:38 PM
Armaguerra=wars weapon and carcano used 6.5x52,mine is 6.5x54ms

lone-wolf
09-05-2017, 09:52 PM
Armaguerra=wars weapon and carcano used 6.5x52,mine is 6.5x54ms
wikipedia:
During the Civil War, Carcano rifles captured during World War II were also converted to 6.5×54mm Mannlicher–Schönauer and used by Greek forces

Rory McCanuck
09-05-2017, 09:56 PM
From the other htread you started on exactly the same topic:
In future, pick one area to ask the question, and we will do our best.

It would seem that you have a Carcano in 6.5 Mannlicher Shonauer that went through British proofing and ended up in Canada.
How an Italian gun ended up in an Austrian chambering, I dunno.
Unless it was and older gun that was refurbed?

lone-wolf
09-05-2017, 10:12 PM
italian, to greek, to british?
Or would the greeks have added their own markings? and lack of them rules that out?

crisse55
09-05-2017, 10:14 PM
Didnt know there was a thread about world wars firearms,ended up making a new one here,so my gun is a carcano that were stolen from greek and been converted to 6.5x54 and went throught british proofing and sporterised and ended up in canada?Greek used 6.5x54ms

RobertMcC
09-05-2017, 10:23 PM
Didnt know there was a thread about world wars firearms,ended up making a new one here,so my gun is a carcano that were stolen from greek and been converted to 6.5x54 and went throught british proofing and sporterised and ended up in canada?Greek used 6.5x54ms

Talking about the double threads you made. Also that house was someone else. Its frowned apron to take stuff from abandoned houses. Unless you got permission from the owner.

lone-wolf
09-05-2017, 10:29 PM
Didnt know there was a thread about world wars firearms,ended up making a new one here,so my gun is a carcano that were stolen from greek and been converted to 6.5x54 and went throught british proofing and sporterised and ended up in canada?Greek used 6.5x54ms

From what I gather, if it was a greek convert, it'd have an E on the receiver and possibly 3 dots in the shape of triangle.
Further googling, I found another rifle like yours, different italian manufacturer but same(or dang close) british proofing and 6.5x54 as well
I guess they liked the cartridge better for hunting?

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=49182

crisse55
09-05-2017, 10:37 PM
They look similar but what is a receiver,the bolt? only got my firearm lisence this years lol

crisse55
09-05-2017, 10:50 PM
Do you have anny picture of these marking?i would love to know if mine is one of these

lone-wolf
09-05-2017, 10:55 PM
The receiver is the main 'tube' of the rifle, where the bolt would normally fit into.
The markings on your rifle seem to be on the barrel itself, just ahead of the receiver.

There's not many google image results, but the E would be just to the rear(towards the buttstock) of the rifle, from where the british markings are. On top.

http://partisanrifles.weebly.com/uploads/2/1/8/0/21804620/1191346_orig.jpg

From the images you posted, it doesn't look like there's an E. Not likely to be a greek converted rifle.

---

I also read about the British helping to arm one side of the greek civil war?
Not sure if they would convert carcanos for them. Maybe one that was going to be sent over, but was sold off instead?
Greek civil war ended in 49, yours has a 47 marking with the date of original manufacture - and a time when the civil war was taking place.
I am no where near educated on what happened back then, I'm just spitballing ideas.
Probably more likely just a straight civilian rifle.

crisse55
09-05-2017, 11:02 PM
There isno E mark or 3 dot on the receiver

crisse55
09-05-2017, 11:08 PM
im just trying to figure out what model is, its missing the bolt i would love to order one to get it working

lone-wolf
09-05-2017, 11:23 PM
Carcano 91/41, according to the chart I found, that's the only model that particular manufacturer(armaguerra cremona) made.
Not sure if the 91/38 bolts are the same or not.
And a quick search, I see some for sale in the states, none in canada. It was a quick search though, don't rule it out.

You may also have to worry about headspace when getting a bolt for that rifle.
Someone with more knowledge(or a gunsmith who can check such things) will be of better benefit to you with regards to that.

crisse55
09-06-2017, 12:01 AM
i cant find m91/41 bolt annywhere =/

lone-wolf
09-06-2017, 09:29 AM
down in the states
https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=718&idcategory=28

Justice
09-06-2017, 01:19 PM
"...sporterised Carcano..." Yep. I believe it's a bubba'd Model 1938 Carbine. Barrel about 21" long? Italian, not Greek. Any British proofing(all the BNP stamps and the '17.5 tons per *square*'.) just means it was sold through England. Required on any milsurp sold and exported by Brit milsurp dealers. Nothing to do with use by the Brits.
"...Armaguerra Cremona..." Italian armoury/factory where it was made.
"...stolen from Greek..." No. 6.5 x 54 MS was used by Greece Mannlicher–Schönauer rifles from 1906 to 1941. W.W. II Italian Carcano's captured by the Greeks from, the Italians before the German invasion in 1941 were converted to 6.5 x 54 MS. And were used during the Greek Civil War(1946 - 1949).
"...is missing the bolt..." Makes it a wall hanger unless you want to go to the not inconsiderable expense of having another bolt fitted by a gunsmith. You cannot just put in another bolt. Another bolt(1938 Carbines had bent bolt handles) runs about $100US, Stateside, at .libertytreecollectors.com(add the W's.) I don't think you'll have issues at the border, but I'm not sure. Try Western Gun Parts first.
Go here. http://candrsenal.com/terminology-a-quick-and-dirty-guide-to-carcano-rifle-models/
Like RobertMcC says, taking stuff from abandoned houses is called theft.

WASATCH CHARLIE
12-28-2017, 11:15 PM
If converted by the GREEKS, then it MIGHT have the 3 dots and the greek E.
The german conversions had marked on stock greek or german( IN GERMAN) .which means it could shoot 6,5x52 or 6,5x54. my 1891 gain twist shoots both.
actually there is only about 1,5 mm between the two rounds.
slug the bore BEFORE shooting the 160 gr.''cruise missles''.
bore of my factory refurb. model 41 likes the .264-5 dia. the .268 dia. are a wee bit too tight.