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Rory McCanuck
12-07-2017, 11:17 AM
COMMENTARY: Lawful gun owners pay the price for gang violence (and public ignorance)

https://globalnews.ca/news/3902026/gun-ban-urban-ignorance/

By Matt Gurney Radio Host Global News December 7, 2017 7:37 am


Guns. In Toronto. Owned by Torontonians. How could this be allowed to happen?!

That was the tone of a news article I remember reading five years ago, in the Toronto Star. Using federal records, that newspaper had collected information about firearms licences as well as gun registry data (including from the now-defunct long-gun registry). The apparently shocking conclusion was that many people in the Greater Toronto Area were gun owners.

“Think there’s a rural-urban divide on long-gun ownership?” the article began. “Think again. Turns out Torontonians love their rifles and shotguns.”

The article is peppered with astonished little asides like that. Torontonians, we were told, own a “surprising” number of firearms. The situation was referred to as “a proliferation of guns.” “Tens of thousands of urbanites” in Toronto were registered gun owners, and many more in the broader Greater Toronto Area as well.

This was all very upsetting, you see. At least to the Toronto Star.

I confess, actually, to having been a bit shocked myself, but for a different reason: I couldn’t believe there was that many of us.

Yes, “us.” I’m one of those weirdo gun-owning Torontonians. The Star and I agreed on that point: I’d had no idea I had so much company.

Still, the numbers were clear: gun owners are a tiny minority in Toronto. The Star held up tens of thousands of us as a shockingly large number; I’d suggest, given that basically, a quarter of Canada’s population lives within an hour’s drive of my backyard, we’re actually a rounding error.

I wish we weren’t. The shooting sports that I enjoy — shooting paper targets well, shooting clay pigeons badly — are a ton of fun, and I’ve met great people through it. I genuinely believe people would enjoy them if they got involved (and the cost of entry is generally quite modest). It’s a shame more people aren’t involved.

And it’s a shame, I confess, for a more selfish reason: it’s easy to ignore the rights and concerns of a tiny group, especially if you don’t have any connection to it. Canadian gun owners are such a group, and we very much know that we are an easy scapegoat for gun violence. Gun crime in Canada is actually quite rare, with mass shootings even more so, and yet, influenced by our proximity to American news and thanks in part to horrifically low gun policy literacy among Canadian journalists, the public genuinely seems to believe that lawful and responsible firearms owners are a threat in need of urgent measures to address.

The numbers simply don’t back that up. In 2015, 178 Canadians were victims of gun homicides in Canada — basically one every other day in a country of 35 million people. That’s insanely low. You’re more than 10 times more likely to die in a car crash than be murdered by a gun in Canada. Homicide is not the only crime a gun can be used in, of course, but the point stands — gun violence in Canada is not a major public health concern.

And yet, according to a recent Ekos poll, a strong majority of Canadians want a “strict ban” on guns in urban areas.

I am a bit skeptical about the poll, to be honest. The company wrote in its release that such a step would inevitably save “hundreds of lives” every year, which is simply insane: there are fewer than 200 gun homicides in Canada per year. Somewhere between half and two-thirds of guns used in crimes in Canada aren’t lawfully possessed by the public and are therefore highly unlikely to be removed by a ban, and not all gun crimes occur in urban areas, anyway.

How does removing some guns from some parts of the country prevent more murders every year than we actually have? The pollsters, who are supposed to be good with numbers, have somehow blown their estimate of saved lives by, what, an order of magnitude here? Nice work, fellas.

That being said, I’m only a bit skeptical of the poll. Ekos, I think, has it mostly right. I bet a strong majority of Canadians actually do want a “strict ban,” however defined, on guns in the cities.

The problem is, that’s a position born of ignorance. And it’s an honest ignorance. With gun owners a small minority in Canada’s big cities, where Canada’s media is concentrated, it’s not surprising that non-gun owners fear us. They shouldn’t. But I understand why they do. Canadian gun owners keep a low profile, and with no real scale for our recreational activities, the only time guns make the news are when something tragic happens. And considering our cultural and geographic proximity to the United States, those stories are all too common.


But Canadians are reasonable people, and Canadian gun owners have facts and logic on their side. Murder is rare in Canada, and a third (or fewer) of murders actually involve guns. Burdening and blaming hunters and target shooters won’t tackle the main problems we have with crime.

Canada has strict and generally effective gun control laws. They could be improved and streamlined, but they work well. Our police are well trained and equipped to handle the crimes that do occur. Nothing in the proposed ban would address the problem of black market guns and, short of establishing some kind of border patrol between urban and rural areas, there’d be no real way to enforce it, anyway. Considering that almost-if-not-not-quite half of gun homicides in Canada are directly linked to organized crime and gangs, and they aren’t likely to turn over their guns once a ban goes into effect, is this really the best way to make our cities safer?

This proposal is, as so much of our gun control system already is, for show. It’s theatre, political posturing at the expense of a small number of Canadians who lack the numbers to warrant much political clout and who are too poorly understood to garner much public sympathy. It won’t save lives, but some opportunistic politician might soon decide it might be popular. The problem is, they’d be right.

Magnum v2.5
12-07-2017, 06:57 PM
Still errors, and given lying poseur troll "gun owners" like "AJ Somerset" I question the writers motives.

Doug_M
12-07-2017, 07:11 PM
Still errors, and given lying poseur troll "gun owners" like "AJ Somerset" I question the writers motives.

That was Matt Gurney not Somerset. He’s no poseur. Believes in licensing but also believes there is some BS to the FA as well. Doesn’t buy into the “some guns are more dangerous than others” crap that Somerset does. In short, while he may not be as far “right” as I am on the topic, he is a genuine ally.


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tdod101
12-08-2017, 07:23 AM
He's also the host of a morning talkshow on AM 640

CLW .45
12-08-2017, 03:46 PM
That was Matt Gurney not Somerset. He’s no poseur. Believes in licensing but also believes there is some BS to the FA as well. Doesn’t buy into the “some guns are more dangerous than others” crap that Somerset does. In short, while he may not be as far “right” as I am on the topic, he is a genuine ally.


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“Believes in licencing.”

Hardly surprising given that at least one major Canadian firearms org supports licencing. Pity!

Doug_M
12-08-2017, 04:23 PM
“Believes in licencing.”

Hardly surprising given that at least one major Canadian firearms org supports licencing. Pity!

I think it’s more of an age thing. Just a guess but I bet for the majority of gun owners where one stands on licensing depends on whether or not you’re old enough to have had an FAC (and possession not be a crime).


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killer kane
12-09-2017, 08:30 AM
Or old enough to remember the times before the FAC.

CLW .45
12-09-2017, 09:53 PM
Or old enough to remember the times before the FAC.

Old enough that most of my purchases were before FAC.

speedloader
12-11-2017, 10:42 AM
good article , we definitely get crapped on based on the US shootings and media BS
most people know nothing about firearms never mind the laws especially the Moronto lefty's

its not in their face except negative reports from the states and gang shootings
some get that we have nothing to do with it at all ,others just think banning objects
and stricter laws will fix everything ......
you know like it fixed drunk driving and illegal drug use, ramming a vehicle into crowds,stabbings
blowing up sub ways, all were fixed by stricter laws.....
too bad they don't believe that being informed and living in reality will stop them from voting for idiots
who use gun control to get votes

Justice
12-11-2017, 11:42 AM
"...murdered by a gun..." Idiot. Still with the personification of inanimate objects.
"...Torontonians love their rifles..." Kind of makes you wonder where he thinks most hunters live. Estimated to be 450,000 hunter in Ontario alone.
"...in the Toronto Star..." The Star and the Globe and Mail have been the major Liberal propaganda rags since before Trudeau the Elder.
"...it’s more of an age thing..." Nope. It's a social conditioning thing. The FAC was touted as being the answer to ending crimes with firearms involved. Marc Lepine had an FAC.

speedloader
12-12-2017, 06:49 AM
Marc Lepine had an FAC.

That statement right there defines the total F'n stupidity of the whole anti gun argument
the shooter they use to do their famous grave dance every year and push for more useless laws,
( which is just nasty and heartless to the victims families I think)
was licensed which proves as always laws make no difference to a wako what so ever
no matter what object he chooses to use car , knife , gun, ax
its one of the biggest lies ever ,up their with climate change taxing us more will fix the earth

FallisCowboy
12-12-2017, 10:31 AM
That statement right there defines the total F'n stupidity of the whole anti gun argument
the shooter they use to do their famous grave dance every year and push for more useless laws,
( which is just nasty and heartless to the victims families I think)
was licensed which proves as always laws make no difference to a wako what so ever
no matter what object he chooses to use car , knife , gun, ax
its one of the biggest lies ever ,up their with climate change taxing us more will fix the earth

They will not rest until there are no guns at all, available to ordinary citizens. Then they will move on to something else that scares them, maybe their own shadow. Fact is they are just plain afraid of everything (sheeple).

Run 'n' Gun
12-12-2017, 10:36 AM
That statement right there defines the total F'n stupidity of the whole anti gun argument
the shooter they use to do their famous grave dance every year and push for more useless laws,
( which is just nasty and heartless to the victims families I think)
was licensed which proves as always laws make no difference to a wako what so ever
no matter what object he chooses to use car , knife , gun, ax
its one of the biggest lies ever ,up their with climate change taxing us more will fix the earth

You have keep in mind that in their simple brains, it just means all PAL holders are criminals, we just don't know it yet.

ESnel
12-12-2017, 08:35 PM
You have keep in mind that in their simple brains, it just means all PAL holders are criminals, we just don't know it yet.

and yet somehow they seem offended if you apply that same logic to group(ethnic,religions,geographic etc) and a criminal stereotype.

Drache
03-21-2018, 07:33 AM
Guns. In Toronto. Owned by Torontonians. How could this be allowed to happen?!

That was the tone of a news article I remember reading five years ago, in the Toronto Star. Using federal records, that newspaper had collected information about firearms licences as well as gun registry data (including from the now-defunct long-gun registry). The apparently shocking conclusion was that many people in the Greater Toronto Area were gun owners.

“Think there’s a rural-urban divide on long-gun ownership?” the article began. “Think again. Turns out Torontonians love their rifles and shotguns.”

The article is peppered with astonished little asides like that. Torontonians, we were told, own a “surprising” number of firearms. The situation was referred to as “a proliferation of guns.” “Tens of thousands of urbanites” in Toronto were registered gun owners, and many more in the broader Greater Toronto Area as well.

This was all very upsetting, you see. At least to the Toronto Star.

I confess, actually, to having been a bit shocked myself, but for a different reason: I couldn’t believe there was that many of us.

Yes, “us.” I’m one of those weirdo gun-owning Torontonians. The Star and I agreed on that point: I’d had no idea I had so much company.

Still, the numbers were clear: gun owners are a tiny minority in Toronto. The Star held up tens of thousands of us as a shockingly large number; I’d suggest, given that basically, a quarter of Canada’s population lives within an hour’s drive of my backyard, we’re actually a rounding error.

I wish we weren’t. The shooting sports that I enjoy — shooting paper targets well, shooting clay pigeons badly — are a ton of fun, and I’ve met great people through it. I genuinely believe people would enjoy them if they got involved (and the cost of entry is generally quite modest). It’s a shame more people aren’t involved.

And it’s a shame, I confess, for a more selfish reason: it’s easy to ignore the rights and concerns of a tiny group, especially if you don’t have any connection to it. Canadian gun owners are such a group, and we very much know that we are an easy scapegoat for gun violence. Gun crime in Canada is actually quite rare, with mass shootings even more so, and yet, influenced by our proximity to American news and thanks in part to horrifically low gun policy literacy among Canadian journalists, the public genuinely seems to believe that lawful and responsible firearms owners are a threat in need of urgent measures to address.

The numbers simply don’t back that up. In 2015, 178 Canadians were victims of gun homicides in Canada — basically one every other day in a country of 35 million people. That’s insanely low. You’re more than 10 times more likely to die in a car crash than be murdered by a gun in Canada. Homicide is not the only crime a gun can be used in, of course, but the point stands — gun violence in Canada is not a major public health concern.

And yet, according to a recent Ekos poll, a strong majority of Canadians want a “strict ban” on guns in urban areas.

I am a bit skeptical about the poll, to be honest. The company wrote in its release that such a step would inevitably save “hundreds of lives” every year, which is simply insane: there are fewer than 200 gun homicides in Canada per year. Somewhere between half and two-thirds of guns used in crimes in Canada aren’t lawfully possessed by the public and are therefore highly unlikely to be removed by a ban, and not all gun crimes occur in urban areas, anyway.

How does removing some guns from some parts of the country prevent more murders every year than we actually have? The pollsters, who are supposed to be good with numbers, have somehow blown their estimate of saved lives by, what, an order of magnitude here? Nice work, fellas.

That being said, I’m only a bit skeptical of the poll. Ekos, I think, has it mostly right. I bet a strong majority of Canadians actually do want a “strict ban,” however defined, on guns in the cities.

The problem is, that’s a position born of ignorance. And it’s an honest ignorance. With gun owners a small minority in Canada’s big cities, where Canada’s media is concentrated, it’s not surprising that non-gun owners fear us. They shouldn’t. But I understand why they do. Canadian gun owners keep a low profile, and with no real scale for our recreational activities, the only time guns make the news are when something tragic happens. And considering our cultural and geographic proximity to the United States, those stories are all too common.

But Canadians are reasonable people, and Canadian gun owners have facts and logic on their side. Murder is rare in Canada, and a third (or fewer) of murders actually involve guns. Burdening and blaming hunters and target shooters won’t tackle the main problems we have with crime.

Canada has strict and generally effective gun control laws. They could be improved and streamlined, but they work well. Our police are well trained and equipped to handle the crimes that do occur. Nothing in the proposed ban would address the problem of black market guns and, short of establishing some kind of border patrol between urban and rural areas, there’d be no real way to enforce it, anyway. Considering that almost-if-not-not-quite half of gun homicides in Canada are directly linked to organized crime and gangs, and they aren’t likely to turn over their guns once a ban goes into effect, is this really the best way to make our cities safer?

This proposal is, as so much of our gun control system already is, for show. It’s theatre, political posturing at the expense of a small number of Canadians who lack the numbers to warrant much political clout and who are too poorly understood to garner much public sympathy. It won’t save lives, but some opportunistic politician might soon decide it might be popular. The problem is, they’d be right.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3902026/gun-ban-urban-ignorance/

firemachine69
03-21-2018, 11:21 AM
Dear Toronto Star:

If we deported third-world degenerates from Somalia, Jamaica, et al, that received criminal code convictions, our gun murders would likely drop to the single digits.

Smc
03-21-2018, 11:26 AM
Fyi torstar owns “tfb tv and the firearm blog”

Polish_Sausage
03-22-2018, 07:23 AM
I found Stats-Can data from 2016. Couldn't find anything for 2017 yet. I don't have it open now, but the data indicated, 611 gun-related deaths in Canada last year, with 221 of those being homicides. (I could be off by a bit, but the website is available for public viewing). As well, the same website indicated 1,858 opioid-related deaths. Easy to see where the bigger problem is.

Guns just happen to be the knee-jerk target because of media sensationalism.

FallisCowboy
03-22-2018, 08:32 AM
Hey! I have a great idea! Lets just make opioids illegal, that would save thousands of lives each year. :Bang head: Ok, then lets give them safe injection sites, where they can enjoy their chosen recreational activity, safely and away from the public..........just like a gun range, but at public expense.

RangeBob
03-24-2018, 01:13 PM
duplicate thread?
2017-12-07, by Rory
http://www.gunownersofcanada.ca/showthread.php?44319-COMMENTARY-Lawful-gun-owners-pay-the-price-for-gang-violence-(and-public-ignorance)

Rory McCanuck
03-24-2018, 09:11 PM
duplicate thread?
2017-12-07, by Rory
http://www.gunownersofcanada.ca/showthread.php?44319-COMMENTARY-Lawful-gun-owners-pay-the-price-for-gang-violence-(and-public-ignorance)
Thought that article sounded familiar.
Merged.