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View Full Version : Goodale to table long-sought bill next week to stiffen gun laws



RangeBob
03-16-2018, 04:41 PM
Mar 16, 2018
Ottawa, Ontario

Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale has served notice he intends to table a long-awaited bill in the Commons next week to implement Liberal election promises to beef up gun control in Canada.

The notice shows the highly anticipated legislation expected Tuesday will affect existing statutes and regulations that govern a range of firearm acquisition and sales, as well as the classification of restricted and prohibited firearms.

The bill stems from Liberal promises made during the 2015 election, but two deadly shooting massacres in the U.S. since last October have sparked calls for stiffer controls over semi-automatic assault rifles such as those used in the massacres.

Goodall has hinted he intends to reinstate a requirement for gun vendors to keep records of long gun sales, which the previous government under Stephen Harper eliminated in 2012 when it passed legislation to dismantle the federal long gun registry.

Goodale referred to the requirementís existence in U.S. states, including Texas.

The bill is also expected to include expanded background checks for gun owners applying for licences to acquire restricted firearms, such as handguns and semi-automatic rifles that require registration and are already tightly controlled.

Conservative MP Rob Zimmer, the partyís point man on firearms through his position on the Commons rural caucus of MPs, has recently posted his support for tougher screening in sales of restricted guns.

The Liberal election promises included a declaration the Liberals would not reintroduce a registry for long guns, and several of the 2015 commitments have already been implemented.

The February federal budget contained $327.6 million in funding over five years to support provincial police guns and gangs task forces, and $80 million to enhance the ability of the Canada Border Services Agency to clamp down on illegal gun smuggling from the U.S.

Goodale has already fulfilled a promise to change the membership of a civilian firearms advisory committee, soon after he became minister, to include more representation from interest groups and women outside the gun sport and firearm communities.

But the list of remaining promises is long.

It consists of rolling back changes in the laws that govern permits for transporting prohibited and restricted firearms, which can only be used at licensed firearm clubs and ranges, and also eliminating Conservative amendments that gave Cabinet authority to overrule RCMP firearm classification decisions.

The other remaining commitments include the background checks for buying handguns and other restricted firearms; the specific requirement that gun buyers have to produce their firearm acquisition licence before a purchase; and a requirement for firearm vendors to confirm the licence with a chief firearms officer before completing the sale.

Perhaps the most contentious promise, in the view of ardent firearm owners who want even less control over guns, the list of promises includes a requirement for vendors to keep records of all firearms inventory and sales, to assist police investigating firearm trafficking and other gun crimes.

The Liberals also promised to pass legislation allowing Canada to ascend to an international Arms Trade Treaty, but the progress of a bill Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland tabled to fulfill that commitment has not budged since its last committee hearing in December.

hxxps://ipolitics.ca/2018/03/16/goodale-to-table-long-sought-bill-on-monday-to-stiffen-gun-laws/

RangeBob
03-16-2018, 04:44 PM
from elsewhere


Man, all this BS is giving me a crazy amount of anxiety. Day before my wedding no less lmao. I better get off of here.

Billythreefeathers
03-16-2018, 04:51 PM
time for some letter and emails to remind first term liberals what turning against licenced gun owners will bring them

Grimlock
03-16-2018, 04:53 PM
Good. My first letters should hit their offices Tuesday.

Laramie Longhorn
03-16-2018, 04:54 PM
"long awaited"

"highly anticipated"

Not by this cowboy

Grimlock
03-16-2018, 05:33 PM
"long awaited"

"highly anticipated"

Not by this cowboy

You know there are birds in that bush, but until you flush them you'll never be able to shoot them down.

lone-wolf
03-16-2018, 05:35 PM
Bring it.

Grimlock
03-16-2018, 05:58 PM
http://catplanet.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Do-you-want-Karate.jpg

Smc
03-17-2018, 05:33 AM
My guess is that they give the rcmp the authority to classify/re-classify firearms. The rcmp will then restrict/ban and it won’t be the lieberals fault.

blacksmithden
03-17-2018, 07:21 AM
Peaceful non-compliance guys.....peaceful non-compliance. It is the obligation of good men not to follow bad laws.

Specter Arms
03-17-2018, 08:56 PM
My guess is that they give the rcmp the authority to classify/re-classify firearms. The rcmp will then restrict/ban and it wonít be the lieberals fault.

exactly right. Liberals are ignorant but not stupid. it costs them too much political capital to ban things. Simply letting the RCMP go back to banning things gives them deniabilty.

Now the RCMP claim that 80% AR receivers can be made into a m16 receiver and are therefore prohibited. it is not a stretch to say that it is a simple dremel operation to make a AR15 recevier into a m16 receiver. I fully expect an AR15 ban but it will not come from the Libs.

The RCMP are unelected. They don't care about votes or how many people own ARs.

We in the gun community have rightly complained that the RCMP have banned too many guns because of their looks. I suspect this will come back to bite us in the assess. How many non-restricted guns are coming out that use 100% AR-15 guts.... bolts, trigger groups, safeties and barrels... those will be gone too. Can anyone really make the argument that these guns are not AR variants?

The AR180 is a select fire prohibted rifle. What simple operations can make a 180b (non res) into a 180? This becomes a slippery slope. Back room goading from the liberals could drive RCMP reclassifications to stupid levels never seen before.... all while keeping liberal hands clean.

To shield ourselves, we need to push for a better definition of variant or those definitions will be made for us to our detriment.

blacksmithden
03-17-2018, 09:16 PM
exactly right. Liberals are ignorant but not stupid. it costs them too much political capital to ban things. Simply letting the RCMP go back to banning things gives them deniabilty.

Now the RCMP claim that 80% AR receivers can be made into a m16 receiver and are therefore prohibited. it is not a stretch to say that it is a simple dremel operation to make a AR15 recevier into a m16 receiver. I fully expect an AR15 ban but it will not come from the Libs.

The RCMP are unelected. They don't care about votes or how many people own ARs.

We in the gun community have rightly complained that the RCMP have banned too many guns because of their looks. I suspect this will come back to bite us in the assess. How many non-restricted guns are coming out that use 100% AR-15 guts.... bolts, trigger groups, safeties and barrels... those will be gone too. Can anyone really make the argument that these guns are not AR variants?

The AR180 is a select fire prohibted rifle. What simple operations can make a 180b (non res) into a 180? This becomes a slippery slope. Back room goading from the liberals could drive RCMP reclassifications to stupid levels never seen before.... all while keeping liberal hands clean.

To shield ourselves, we need to push for a better definition of variant or those definitions will be made for us to our detriment.

The liberals turn the dog loose....the dog bites honest innocent people....it's the dogs fault. Yes...that sounds like the liberals alright.

Doug_M
03-18-2018, 05:35 AM
Well the Liberals may believe they can have deniability but it won't work. Ultimately the government of the day is responsible for the actions of all departments. The RCMP fall under the Public Safety Minister's portfolio. If the RCMP ban x, y or z we simply hold Ralphie boy and the Libs responsible whether they like it or not.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

infidel29
03-18-2018, 08:08 AM
Ban the RCMP.

ESnel
03-18-2018, 08:31 AM
http://i.imgur.com/P07mvn5.jpg

speedloader
03-18-2018, 08:54 AM
Cowards, they will use the ARSSSS cmp as the political scape goat to ban things
Good ale has already done it with the 1022 mag then he just plays oblivious
and refers it to the RCMP he's a liberal both coward and stupid traits come very natural

we need to have alot more push back on that issue
they should get buried in angry letters from everywhere
I sent him a rebuttal to his letter

Stating dear Sir
If your going to prohibit things or allow your police force to do so
because of potential to do harm when nothing has actually occurred of that nature with said object

please ban your own Government as we have more evidence of your party doing severe harm
to Canada as a whole then a mear 1022 magazine will ever do

We are working on that very event with Andrew Sheer for 2019
but truth be told more actions like this in your part will help make the transition of Canada back to reality
even quicker


Got no response?

Swampdonkey
03-18-2018, 10:09 AM
Just because one party is guilty, doesn't make anyone less guilty. If one man commits a crime and does ten years, and five men commit the same crime together, do they each get two years because that's their share? The Liberal Party and RCMP won't deflect or split the guilt; they will all be totally guilty.

Turtlehead
03-18-2018, 10:41 AM
Peaceful non-compliance guys.....peaceful non-compliance. It is the obligation of good men not to follow bad laws.

civil disobedience never looked so good

Swampdonkey
03-18-2018, 11:51 AM
Peaceful non-compliance guys.....peaceful non-compliance. It is the obligation of good men not to follow bad laws.

Proportional retaliation has philosophical merit as well.

Grizz
03-18-2018, 12:27 PM
I wonder what is going on to cause them to delay this?? Either way, rest assured, we need to continue to fight this as if it was still going on this week as it will rear it's ugly head in the near future!!

Zinilin
03-18-2018, 12:38 PM
I expect the 'First Nations' will ignore it and the Liberals will ignore them ignoring it.

Billythreefeathers
03-18-2018, 12:39 PM
Peaceful non-compliance guys.....peaceful non-compliance. It is the obligation of good men not to follow bad laws.

until someone shows up at my door to take anything away, I will just keep using it as I am today. How many BANNED 10/22 mags were turned in? I'm not turning anything in.

Billythreefeathers
03-18-2018, 12:51 PM
I expect the 'First Nations' will ignore it and the Liberals will ignore them ignoring it.

I expect EVERYONE to ignore it, peaceful non-compliance.

RangeBob
03-18-2018, 01:09 PM
justin said that a bunch of bills on a variety of topics were going to be introduced over the next two weeks.
It wouldn't surprise me if ours barely gets any press, in favour of some of the others.

YVRguy
03-18-2018, 04:00 PM
The only thing that's going to send me sideways is if they start messing with the ATT. I don't care if they monitor me on an ongoing basis for criminal acts. I don't care if they track my NR firearms - I have more restricted ones anyway. But if they try to make it harder to get my guns out to the range whenever I feel like it I'm going to get ornery.

Swampdonkey
03-18-2018, 04:49 PM
Criminal acts won't mean convictions. It means posting politically incorrect facts.

Doug_M
03-18-2018, 04:53 PM
The only thing that's going to send me sideways is if they start messing with the ATT. I don't care if they monitor me on an ongoing basis for criminal acts. I don't care if they track my NR firearms - I have more restricted ones anyway. But if they try to make it harder to get my guns out to the range whenever I feel like it I'm going to get ornery.No matter what they come out with we will all have to get ornery. This bill will be the canary in the coal mine and if we fail to push back significantly they will take that as a green light to go forward with their agenda and give the RCMP what they need to start banning firearms on their notorious hit list. So no matter how trivial this bill may seem we must all push back as if they'd just banned the Lee Enfield.

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Grimlock
03-18-2018, 05:02 PM
The Lee Enfield is the finest and longest serving weapon of war ever devised. It is/was in service for over 100 years. On a "designed for killing people" scale, it rates right up there with anything.

If this bill doesn't look threatening, it's because it contains all the mechanisms for a predetermined second attack. If they don't get hit harder than anthing they've ever tried, we are done.

CLW .45
03-19-2018, 03:15 PM
exactly right. Liberals are ignorant but not stupid. it costs them too much political capital to ban things. Simply letting the RCMP go back to banning things gives them deniabilty.

Now the RCMP claim that 80% AR receivers can be made into a m16 receiver and are therefore prohibited. it is not a stretch to say that it is a simple dremel operation to make a AR15 recevier into a m16 receiver. I fully expect an AR15 ban but it will not come from the Libs.

The RCMP are unelected. They don't care about votes or how many people own ARs.

We in the gun community have rightly complained that the RCMP have banned too many guns because of their looks. I suspect this will come back to bite us in the assess. How many non-restricted guns are coming out that use 100% AR-15 guts.... bolts, trigger groups, safeties and barrels... those will be gone too. Can anyone really make the argument that these guns are not AR variants?

The AR180 is a select fire prohibted rifle. What simple operations can make a 180b (non res) into a 180? This becomes a slippery slope. Back room goading from the liberals could drive RCMP reclassifications to stupid levels never seen before.... all while keeping liberal hands clean.

To shield ourselves, we need to push for a better definition of variant or those definitions will be made for us to our detriment.

Better yet, learn from history.

Repeal Prohibition!

CLW .45
03-19-2018, 03:18 PM
The only thing that's going to send me sideways is if they start messing with the ATT. I don't care if they monitor me on an ongoing basis for criminal acts. I don't care if they track my NR firearms - I have more restricted ones anyway. But if they try to make it harder to get my guns out to the range whenever I feel like it I'm going to get ornery.

I am reading this correctly?

As long as my ox isn’t gored, I don’t care what happens to others?

Weekend Gunslingers
03-19-2018, 03:19 PM
Been keeping an eye out, it is on the agenda today but nothing about it is published yet

Turtlehead
03-19-2018, 04:22 PM
i cant handle the suspense anymore

RangeBob
03-19-2018, 04:52 PM
i cant handle the suspense anymore

Apparently Poly Se Souvient (Heidi Rathjen et al) are feeling the same.

http://www.gunownersofcanada.ca/showthread.php?46675-Gun-control-advocates-fear-new-federal-firearms-bill-may-lack-real-bite&p=581498#post581498

YVRguy
03-20-2018, 07:08 AM
I am reading this correctly?

As long as my ox isnít gored, I donít care what happens to others?

No, you're not reading it right. My point was that I'm only concerned about measures that actually limit my ability to lawfully use my firearms. I don't give a rats ass if they want to record my name when I buy a rifle and frankly I don't know why anyone would. As upstanding members of Canadian society we all sign on the dotted line for all kinds of things. I'm not embarrassed about buying a rifle and I don't care who knows about it or tracks it. The red line should be infringing access, not confirming identities and background checks.

kennymo
03-20-2018, 07:44 AM
No, you're not reading it right. My point was that I'm only concerned about measures that actually limit my ability to lawfully use my firearms. I don't give a rats ass if they want to record my name when I buy a rifle and frankly I don't know why anyone would. As upstanding members of Canadian society we all sign on the dotted line for all kinds of things. I'm not embarrassed about buying a rifle and I don't care who knows about it or tracks it. The red line should be infringing access, not confirming identities and background checks.

Registration being used for confiscation is the concern there, not a simple background check as most people are OK with that. We have been promised several times that the government would never use the registry/records to seize guns from us and they have reneged on that promise every time.

YVRguy
03-20-2018, 08:01 AM
Registration being used for confiscation is the concern there, not a simple background check as most people are OK with that. We have been promised several times that the government would never use the registry/records to seize guns from us and they have reneged on that promise every time.

I wasn't aware that the government has seized guns. When did that happen? Not asking for the sake of argument, I'm really not that up on the history so I take everything at face value.

FallisCowboy
03-20-2018, 08:06 AM
I wasn't aware that the government has seized guns. When did that happen? Not asking for the sake of argument, I'm really not that up on the history so I take everything at face value.

Two words.........High River.

kennymo
03-20-2018, 08:11 AM
I wasn't aware that the government has seized guns. When did that happen? Not asking for the sake of argument, I'm really not that up on the history so I take everything at face value.

I'm mostly concerned about reclassifications, like what's happened to the prohibited pistols and machine guns, more recently the attempt on CZ 858's and Swiss Arms. There were also small numbers of other guns reclassified and seized before the long gun registry was turfed in 2012.

Petamocto
03-20-2018, 08:20 AM
I wasn't aware that the government has seized guns. When did that happen? Not asking for the sake of argument, I'm really not that up on the history so I take everything at face value.

Look up the first T97 guns that came over. Around 2010.

Grimlock
03-20-2018, 08:40 AM
The bill has been tabled. No text yet.

YVRguy
03-20-2018, 08:41 AM
Two words.........High River.

Just looked it up. Seems pretty minor. Guns were left out in the open in homes abandoned during a flood. RCMP removed them to prevent looters from taking them. Guns were returned shortly after the crisis was over. We can see evil intent everywhere if we want to. It may seem naive to many but if you don't trust your country, what's left? A common adage in my world is "Trust but Verify."

Deuce-deuce
03-20-2018, 08:43 AM
Just looked it up. Seems pretty minor. Guns were left out in the open in homes abandoned during a flood. RCMP took removed them to prevent looters from taking them. Guns were returned shortly after the crisis was over. We can see evil intent everywhere if we want to. It may seem naive to many but if you don't trust your country, what's left? A common adage in my world is "Trust but Verify."

Dude.... houses were searched, property was confiscated, property was destroyed, not everything was returned.

If you think that’s ok you probably don’t belong here.

Grimlock
03-20-2018, 08:44 AM
https://www.parl.ca/LegisInfo/BillDetails.aspx?Language=e&Mode=1&billId=9710291

Grimlock
03-20-2018, 08:46 AM
Just looked it up. Seems pretty minor. Guns were left out in the open in homes abandoned during a flood. RCMP removed them to prevent looters from taking them. Guns were returned shortly after the crisis was over. We can see evil intent everywhere if we want to. It may seem naive to many but if you don't trust your country, what's left? A common adage in my world is "Trust but Verify."

The government is not the country. Forced evacuation is not abandonment. Kicking in doors is not out in the open.

kennymo
03-20-2018, 08:50 AM
Just looked it up. Seems pretty minor. Guns were left out in the open in homes abandoned during a flood. RCMP removed them to prevent looters from taking them. Guns were returned shortly after the crisis was over. We can see evil intent everywhere if we want to. It may seem naive to many but if you don't trust your country, what's left? A common adage in my world is "Trust but Verify."

Closets were gone through, attics were opened, crowbars were taken to safes. Many of the guns were hardly left in the open, many guns were damaged and tens of thousands of dollars in damage were done to some homes to find 'guns left in the open'. All because the RCMP were 'worried about theft' in a town they had personally removed all the residents from and were patrolling the streets and controlling routes into town 24 hours a day.....

And the RCMP refused to return hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammunition they'd seized because they hadn't bothered to track where they'd found it.

Waterloomike
03-20-2018, 08:54 AM
Just looked it up. Seems pretty minor. Guns were left out in the open in homes abandoned during a flood. RCMP removed them to prevent looters from taking them. Guns were returned shortly after the crisis was over. We can see evil intent everywhere if we want to. It may seem naive to many but if you don't trust your country, what's left? A common adage in my world is "Trust but Verify."

They were forced to leave. Much of High River wasn't flooded.

Dig deeper, much deeper. It's easy to find.

GTW
03-20-2018, 08:55 AM
Closets were gone through, attics were opened, crowbars were taken to safes. Many of the guns were hardly left in the open, many guns were damaged and tens of thousands of dollars in damage were done to some homes to find 'guns left in the open'. All because the RCMP were 'worried about theft' in a town they had personally removed all the residents from and were patrolling the streets and controlling routes into town 24 hours a day.....

And the RCMP refused to return hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammunition they'd seized because they hadn't bothered to track where they'd found it.
Not to mention gun owners homes were specifically targeted and trashed by the RCMP using an illegal source of information they had been ordered to destroy by the court.... the gun registry records.

Yup, seems pretty minor. NOT!

ďTrust but verifyĒ is not something one should have to do with the very people sworn to uphold the law.
Until now. The illegal action taken by the RCMP in High River has removed all trust the public had in them.

soulchaser
03-20-2018, 09:00 AM
Just looked it up. Seems pretty minor. Guns were left out in the open in homes abandoned during a flood. RCMP removed them to prevent looters from taking them. Guns were returned shortly after the crisis was over. We can see evil intent everywhere if we want to. It may seem naive to many but if you don't trust your country, what's left? A common adage in my world is "Trust but Verify."

This is sarcasm, right?

Cops used supposedly deleted registry data to find homes with guns. There are documented cases of cops entering the SAME HOME numerous times trying to find all the guns registered to the home.

They broke into LOCKED rooms and LOCKED closets to take the guns. Safes were broken into.

They broke into homes that weren't flooded to take the guns .

There were looters......... they were wearing RCMP uniforms.

Try and find the High River documentary by Lorne Gunter online.

soulchaser
03-20-2018, 09:07 AM
The government is not the country. Forced evacuation is not abandonment. Kicking in doors is not out in the open.

IIRC, the Armed Forces were assisting the RCMP enter locked homes in the beginning......

Until they realized what the Horsemen were doing. The Forces then told them to get stuffed

Waterloomike
03-20-2018, 09:14 AM
This is sarcasm, right?

Cops used supposedly deleted registry data to find homes with guns. There are documented cases of cops entering the SAME HOME numerous times trying to find all the guns registered to the home.

They broke into LOCKED rooms and LOCKED closets to take the guns. Safes were broken into.

They broke into homes that weren't flooded to take the guns .

There were looters......... they were wearing RCMP uniforms.

Try and find the High River documentary by Lorne Gunter online.

In some cases, they were kicking in all 3 doors. WTF for?????

Grimlock
03-20-2018, 09:16 AM
IIRC, the Armed Forces were assisting the RCMP enter locked homes in the beginning......

Until they realized what the Horsemen were doing. The Forces then told them to get stuffed

If you read the history of revolutions, a common theme is the military cutting loose the police when they start to attack citizens.

CLW .45
03-20-2018, 10:09 AM
I wasn't aware that the government has seized guns. When did that happen? Not asking for the sake of argument, I'm really not that up on the history so I take everything at face value.

A colleague had two firearms seized when handguns and AKís first hit the prohib list.

There have been thousands of others over the years.

lone-wolf
03-20-2018, 10:21 AM
What is worse than firearms being seized is the cz and swiss arms rifles(now fixed), and numerous magazines(not fixed, still prohib) being declared prohibited overnight after being legal for years.
That resulted in people who are regular joes(they aren't following closely like us) going through life unknowingly possessing a ticking bomb of big criminal charges against them. Ignorance is no defense.

RangeBob
03-20-2018, 01:54 PM
What is worse than firearms being seized is the cz and swiss arms rifles(now fixed), and numerous magazines(not fixed, still prohib) being declared prohibited overnight after being legal for years.
That resulted in people who are regular joes(they aren't following closely like us) going through life unknowingly possessing a ticking bomb of big criminal charges against them. Ignorance is no defense.

Ignorance is no defense, and knowledge is impossible.
When the RCMP Firearms Lab prohibited the Swiss Arms and CZ858's, they didn't tell anyone except police stations.
When the government changes a regulation, the only place it shows up is the Gazette. Unless you're reading the Gazette every day, you might not know about it.
A very tiny percentage of the 2+ million PALers in Canada are members of a firearms organization that might mention Gazette changes two months later in a magazine, or members of CGN or GoC.

RangeBob
03-20-2018, 01:54 PM
The Complete List of the Recently Prohibited

- 1995?, SPAS-12 shotgun, Calico 9mm carbine (confiscated by OIC)
- 2005(?), Saiga .410 shotgun (ak variant by looks). Armrus (of Dorval Quebec, Sports & Recreation, Hunting & Guns, Guns & Gunsmiths) had a shipment of Saigas siezed by the RCMP, and shortly thereafter went bankrupt. "the only reputable Russian arms dealer in North America is Armrus Canada. www.armrus.com They take the time to explain everything about your new baby before you walk out of the store. If you ask nicely, they would show you all aspects of your new baby too. They would show you how to take it apart and then they will clean it for you. Armrus.com is run by a former soldier anf his wife they are very nice and extremely helpful." (in 2005)
- 2008-02, German Sport Guns GSG-5 (semi-automatic 22LR, prohibited as an MP5 variants) "February 25, 2008: The RCMPís FRT Department classified GSG-5 as prohibited weapon, claiming it to be HK-MP5 variant. The decision was entirely based on visual appearance, rather than technical facts. We have decided to dispute that decision. We retained T. Murray Rankin Q.C. of Heenan Blaikie to pursue a review of that decision and, if necessary, an appeal. We will further inform you of any developments on this matter. "
- GSG Ak 47 which was a 22lr rifle
- 2010-03, High Standard Model 10B Police shotgun (1998 -- was there something new?) (NFA 2010 opinion (http://www.nfa.ca/norinco-type-97-reclassification-firearms-act))
- 2010-03, Norinco Type 97 (T97) (NFA 2010 opinion (http://www.nfa.ca/norinco-type-97-reclassification-firearms-act)). Compensation may have been offered for this one, after a bunch of complaints.
- 2010-05, The SIG SAUER model 522 was found to be a variant or modified version of a SIG, Model 550 rifle under the Regulations appended to The Criminal Code of Canada S.84 Part 1 Prohibited Firearms, Former Prohibited Weapons Order No 13 (para 83), The firearm of the design commonly know as the SG-550 rifle, and any variant or modified version of it. The SIG SAUER, model 522, 22 LR calibre Rifle is a prohibited firearm. (here (http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=471361))
- 2011-03, S&W M&P 15-22 (semi auto 22LR) The Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 is a restricted rimfire rifle with 25-round magazines (which are legal because rimfire rifles have no magazine capacity limits). Smith & Wesson at some point decided to manufacture a pistol version of the M&P 15-22, a smaller firearm which shares the magazine of the rifle version. RCMP notices this and decides that all M&P 15-22 magazines are now handgun magazines, which have a capacity limit of 10 rounds. All existing M&P 15-22 rifle owners are now in possession of illegal 25-round M&P 15-22 magazines, which either need to be permanently modified to 10 round capacity (at the owner's cost) and verified, or turned in to the government for destruction (with no compensation). (RCMP here (http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/bulletins/bus-ent/20110323-72-eng.htm))
- 2011-05, Magazine Box is a prohibited weapon decision (RvCancade) (BlueLine here (http://blueline.ca/articles/purposive_approach_favoured_over_restrictive_one_i/)) (Blueline here (http://blueline.ca/articles/purposive_approach_favoured_over_restrictive_one_i n_cartridge_magazine_interpretation))
- 2011-05, Zoraki Model R1 (RCMP here (http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/bulletins/police/20110503-pol80-eng.htm))
- 2011-06, Zoraki 914 and 925 Blank Firing Guns (RCMP Here (http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/bulletins/police/20110623-pol81-eng.htm), FirearmsLaw here (http://firearmslaw.ca/2011/06/27/zoraki-914-925-blank-prohibited/))
- 2011-10, BB guns with model numbers FX18HB c.4.5. air rifle (full stock) and FX18IIHB c.4.5. air rifle (RCMP here (http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/bulletins/police/20111024-pol82-eng.htm))
- 2011-12, Armi-Jager AP80 (22LR, similar to named prohibited varient Mitchell AK-22) (NFA opinion (http://www.nfa.ca/news/informal-briefing-paper-armi-jager-ap-80))
- 2011-12, Walther G22. (semi auto 22LR) (NFA 2005 opinion (http://www.nfa.ca/resource-items/using-reference-hearings-protect-firearms-community)), "The RCMP also issued a notice of revocation for the Walther G22 rifle on Dec. 30. This gun, also a .22-calibre semi-automatic, was prohibited because it has a removable "bullpup" style shoulder stock." (here (http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/RCMP+confiscate+more+guns+before+registry+ends/5957717/story.html)) (NFA Opinion (http://www.nfa.ca/news/true-status-factory-stock-walther-g22-rifle))
- 2012-01, XRAIL System (RCMP here (http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/bulletins/police/20120106-pol83-eng.htm))
- 2012-10, SCAR 16S & SCAR 17S. Ruled prohib October 2012 off of the basis of ease of full auto conversion, even though the full auto LPK is completely unobtainable to civilians and the act of converting is illegal. Imported by Questar and held up since 2010 to determine the classification. (here (http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?521758-Scar), and here (http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?813365-SCAR-16S-and-SCAR17S-UPDATE))
- 2012-12 sports system dittrich BD38 and BD3008 (here (http://nfa.ca/sites/default/files/RCMP%20-%20SSD%20BD38%20Reclassification.pdf))
- 2014-02 RCMP has reclassified the Swiss Arms Classic Green carbine from non-restricted (and restricted) to prohibited status
- 2014-02 CZ858 manufactured after 2007. Note subsequently classified by barrel length.
- 2014-03 Rock Island Armory MAK22 (Armscor) [.22LR, similar to Mitchell Arms AK22, Armi Jšger AP80] "It isn't a reclassification. The guns never made it in country. The guns have been banned for nearly 20 years. Stamping a new name on an existing design that is already banned by OIC doesn't change the gun. The Armi Jager AP80, Mitchell Arms AK22 and the RIA MAK22 are not "mechanical variants" of the AK47. The 3 are however the same mechanically within their own design. As the Mitchell Arms version is named in the Prohibition Order, the other two are prohibited as "mechanical variants" of the MA AK22." (here (http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1053428-Rock-Island-Armory-MAK22-(Armscor)?p=9875156&viewfull=1#post9875156))
- 2014-10 MH2B. here (http://www.#################.ca/showthread.php?17794-RECLASSIFICATION-of-MH2B!). FRT 64203 is the original TNW. FRT 148947 is the new FRT for TNW and Canada Arsenals Limited. The latter is now prohibited.
- 2014/2013-? 1919. EDIT: the Akdal MKA 1919 [aka ALPHARMS 15SA Shotgun] was reclassified to non-restricted Feb 3 2016 (here (https://nncfb.ca/rcmp-reclassify-akdal-mka-1919-from-restricted-to-non-restricted/))
- 2015-06 Mossberg Blaze 47. The Mossberg Blaze is non-restricted, but adding some non-functional wood furniture in the 47 version made the 47 version prohibited. here (https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/11218803_827912337300306_4498906292678472915_n.png ?oh=ee2f2abb10bff4df15bd23638364b98d&oe=55ED0D82)
- 2016-04 Beretta ARX 100. ARX160-22 are classified as NR (FRT 139451) with the proper barrel length, unfortunately ARX 100 is Prohibited (FRT143581) because it can easily be converted to FA
- 2016-07 10/22 magazines. RCMP Bulletin 72 clarification (http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/notice-avis-2016-07-27-eng.htm)
- 2016-10 Beowolf magazines here (https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1467042-RCMP-50-Beowulf-magazine-RE-INTERPRETATION-limited-to-FIVE-rounds-of-5-56)
- 2017-01 CZ858 Tactical-2P Spartan. Wolverine imported 245 of these, and FRT 172184 said they are prohibited.
- 2017-04 The recent news from Irunguns and Wolverine confirmed that Sig MPX would only come with 5-round mags, even thought the gun was classified as a pistol. This was inline with RCM special Bulletin 72, where Hi-point carbine was used as an example: only 5 round mags allowed due to dual-purpose design. (here (https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1548837-RCMP-s-confusing-interpretation-of-mag-capacity-glock-owners-could-be-criminals))
- 2017-06 80% receivers; "anything that can be adapted for use as a firearm" (rcmp here (http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/pol-leg/receiver-carcasse-eng.htm) and here (https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/19113911_1240453649414979_1722638244156272251_n.jp g?oh=00a71acfd79915aa421f9a08262f53fa&oe=59A19995))
- 2018-03-20 PENDING. Bill C-71 prohibits CZ858 and Swiss Arms again, by name, in legislation (not regulation).

Run 'n' Gun
03-20-2018, 02:09 PM
Is there a break down of all the 12(x) categories and the different rules for each?

I searched the RCMP website and found zero...

ESnel
03-20-2018, 02:29 PM
Is there a break down of all the 12(x) categories and the different rules for each?

I searched the RCMP website and found zero...

From- http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/prohibited-prohibe-eng.htm
s.12(2): full automatics
s.12(3): converted automatics
s.12(4): firearms prohibited by former prohibition order No. 12
s.12(5): firearms prohibited by former prohibition order No. 13
s.12(6): handguns with a barrel length of 105 mm or less or that discharge .25 or .32 calibre ammunition. On licences issued on or after April 10, 2005, these firearms will be referred to as 12(6.1) firearms.

Run 'n' Gun
03-20-2018, 02:33 PM
From- http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-fd/prohibited-prohibe-eng.htm
s.12(2): full automatics
s.12(3): converted automatics
s.12(4): firearms prohibited by former prohibition order No. 12
s.12(5): firearms prohibited by former prohibition order No. 13
s.12(6): handguns with a barrel length of 105 mm or less or that discharge .25 or .32 calibre ammunition. On licences issued on or after April 10, 2005, these firearms will be referred to as 12(6.1) firearms.

Thanks, so this 12(9) they mention is just something they pulled out of their ass.

RangeBob
03-20-2018, 02:35 PM
12(6) handguns are authorized to be transported on the grandfathered owners LTATT.
When C68 was imposed, there was something called a "special authority to possess" (SAP) which allowed grandfathered owners of prohibited long guns to transport those firearms to certified gun clubs for the purposes of target practise. 12(3)(4)(5) firearms.
This was not a long term authorization, it was done at the discretion of the chief provincial firearms officer, and most SAPs were issued for limited periods of 2-4-6 times a year.
Several years ago, the federal firearms bureaucracy decided that the issuing of SAP's had to be stopped.
The purpose of the prohibitions under C68 was to remove these guns from circulation and ownership, and if they are being transported for legitimate purposes such as target practise, that doesn't support the legitimacy of the prohibition of the gun or it's eventual confiscation, does it?
There were never any SAP's issued for 12(2) full auto as the CFOs invented a requirement for a range approved for full auto, and none really exist outside of DND ranges.
Remember, were talking about firearms that are registered to people with firearms licenses, but are apparently are so dangerous that they are only authorized to be transported to gun shows, gunsmiths or for deactivation.
The firearms bureaucrats were quite proud of themselves for that. They really believed they were enhancing the safety of Canadians by no longer issuing the "special authority to possess".
In reality, it just reminds us of their ultimate goal of confiscations.
"Why do you need that gun? You're not allowed to shoot it".
".................... turn it in".
-- Blair Hagen

"assault rifles" which are by definition selectfire or fully automatic have already been class 12.2 and 12.3 for generations already, and Bill C-42 in NO WAY touches on any of that. "Military style" rifles are just that: style - and are functionally identical to or even weaker than your average wood-stocked rifle or shotgun. This calling it an 'assault rifle' is just rampant scaremongering or ignorance.
-- Flashpoint

12.2: FA Full Automatic
12.3: CA Converted Automatic
12.4: OIC # 12 (OIC = Order in Council) A small class, examples are: Sterling MK6, Steyr AUG, Uzi carbine, Mod A and mini Uzi
12.5: OIC #13 A large class, examples are: FN FAL, H&K, AK47, Thompsons etc.
12.6: Handgun All .25, .32 (some exceptions) and handguns with a barrel length of 105mm and less. Registered before 14 Feb 1995
12.7: PROHIBITED 12.6 handguns inheritable by immediate next of kin as they were manufactured before 1946.
12.9 (BILL C71 2018/3/20) Swiss Arms and CZ858

ESnel
03-20-2018, 02:48 PM
Thanks, so this 12(9) they mention is just something they pulled out of their ass.

Yea it's new thing

Waterloomike
03-20-2018, 03:01 PM
Ignorance is no defense, and knowledge is impossible.
When the RCMP Firearms Lab prohibited the Swiss Arms and CZ858's, they didn't tell anyone except police stations.
When the government changes a regulation, the only place it shows up is the Gazette. Unless you're reading the Gazette every day, you might not know about it.
A very tiny percentage of the 2+ million PALers in Canada are members of a firearms organization that might mention Gazette changes two months later in a magazine, or members of CGN or GoC.

"Ignorance is no defense and knowledge is impossible."

Amen to that!

In and of itself is a crime against the people. It's something from the old USSR.

lone-wolf
03-20-2018, 07:21 PM
People are stroking themselves over getting a prohib license, 12.9
I wonder if they have half a clue that they'll only be able to purchases the cz858 and the swiss arms with that one lol

Grimlock
03-20-2018, 07:22 PM
People are stroking themselves over getting a prohib license, 12.9
I wonder if they have half a clue that they'll only be able to purchases the cz858 and the swiss arms with that one lol

And that the CFO will shut off their ability to transport post haste.

Deuce-deuce
03-20-2018, 08:19 PM
And that the CFO will shut off their ability to transport post haste.

Might as well be dead... bury the dead, boys. Bury 'me deep so the hounds can't smell 'em.

Grizz
03-21-2018, 06:11 AM
People are stroking themselves over getting a prohib license, 12.9
I wonder if they have half a clue that they'll only be able to purchases the cz858 and the swiss arms with that one lol

And now the CFO and the RCMP know exactly who owns them AND where to go round them up after a quick OIC to confiscate these clearly dangerous weapons of mass destruction!!!!

YVRguy
03-22-2018, 11:12 AM
If you think thatís ok you probably donít belong here.

Buddy, I own and shoot multiple firearms. Restricted, non restricted, rifles, handguns. I belong to multiple ranges. I'm a paid and current member of the National Firearms Association. The last time I checked, this forum is for Canadian shooting enthusiasts, not conspiracy theorists. There are two sides to every story and I will not apologize for thinking critically before I buy in to a narrative. A number of other responses to my note mentioned things I didn't know about High River and I better understand why people are upset about it. That's the way this is supposed to work. Ask questions, get informed, draw your own conclusions.

CLW .45
03-22-2018, 01:35 PM
Buddy, I own and shoot multiple firearms. Restricted, non restricted, rifles, handguns. I belong to multiple ranges. I'm a paid and current member of the National Firearms Association. The last time I checked, this forum is for Canadian shooting enthusiasts, not conspiracy theorists. There are two sides to every story and I will not apologize for thinking critically before I buy in to a narrative. A number of other responses to my note mentioned things I didn't know about High River and I better understand why people are upset about it. That's the way this is supposed to work. Ask questions, get informed, draw your own conclusions.

Now, please understand this.

While a restriction may not seem to be a problem for me I would never ask you to suffer because of that restriction.

All I ask is that you give me the same consideration.

YVRguy
03-22-2018, 08:03 PM
Now, please understand this.

While a restriction may not seem to be a problem for me I would never ask you to suffer because of that restriction.

All I ask is that you give me the same consideration.

Fair enough.

awndray
03-23-2018, 11:40 AM
Goodale says their common sense firearms legislation has been lauded

Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale discusses firearms legislation and says the Liberals plan to restrict firearms has been lauded by all the parties.
Video - https://globalnews.ca/video/4097739/goodale-says-their-common-sense-firearms-legislation-has-been-lauded

lone-wolf
03-23-2018, 03:05 PM
Delusional

ESnel
03-23-2018, 05:10 PM
I guess reading isn't goodale's is capable of,he obviously hasn't figured out Twitter,heck even his beloved CBC is saying it's not only the state in Denmark that is rotten

Gunrunner
03-23-2018, 05:37 PM
The government is not the country. Forced evacuation is not abandonment. Kicking in doors is not out in the open.

I'll bet the cops are all being issued steel toed boots in preparation for the proclamation of bill c71.
With the c68 data legal to retain and use + the store data the mounties will be like kids in a candy shop with unilateral power to ban and confiscate without a dime in compensation to the affected owners.
Kinda hoped I wouldn't have to witness such scenes of state oppression of Canadians who did no wrong or broke no law ever again in my lifetime but it looks like I'm not going to get my wish.
It's right around the corner.
The Liberals will be taking the at-arms-length 3rd party 'we can't interfere with the police' position and hope that lets turdo sail through the 2019 election to his second majority.
If turdo secures a second majority that'll signal that Canadians approved of what he did in his first term in office and gun laws in Canada will be fast tracked to full UK/Australia mode in a jiffy.
All semis & handguns will be gone as will short barreled rifles and shotguns and maybe even pumps.

boeing299
03-24-2018, 11:24 AM
this ought to keep us safe from those returning isis fighters.:FP2

Gunrunner
03-24-2018, 11:47 AM
People are stroking themselves over getting a prohib license, 12.9
I wonder if they have half a clue that they'll only be able to purchases the cz858 and the swiss arms with that one lol

Probably another rcmp bait & switch tactic.
They could reclassify the registered 12.9s to 'prohibited without grandfathering' and confiscate them at any time in the future (another shooting incident on foreign soil will do) they decide that the cz858s are too dangerous for civilians to have.