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View Full Version : Liberal MPs call on cabinet to get ahead of attacks on new gun bill, as firearms lobby heads to Ottawa



RangeBob
03-19-2018, 05:19 PM
Mar. 19, 2018
Ottawa, Ontario

Conservative MPs are already invoking the long-gun registry, and gun lobby groups are promising to make it hurt if they don’t like the bill.

Liberal MPs are calling on the government to roll out its upcoming gun safety bill with a public relations and consultation campaign, while pro-gun lobbyists, rural Conservative MPs, and gun control advocates are warning of the political consequences of getting it wrong.

“If it’s not done soft and gentle in a way that people can feel there’s a buy in, it’s going to lead to the Conservatives using this as a cudgel to beat the Liberals over the head with, at some point,” one Liberal MP, speaking on a not-for-attribution basis, told The Hill Times.

The legislation is listed on the House of Commons notice paper and could be tabled as early as Tuesday.

Some Conservatives are already polishing their cudgels. Conservative MP Robert Sopuck (Dauphin-Swan River-Neepawa, Man.) and Conservative MP Bob Zimmer (Prince George-Peace River-Northern Rockies, B.C.) both raised the prospect of a return to the wildly-unpopular (in rural ridings) long-gun registry of the Chrétien-era Liberals during interviews with The Hill Times, despite numerous statements by the government that it would not reintroduce the registry.

“We’re suspicious that that’s what they want to get to eventually, and that any new legislation will lead to that,” said Mr. Zimmer, who represents a rural riding and has publicly supported other gun safety proposals, such as more in-depth background checks for those applying for gun licenses.

The government should send representatives across the country, to speak with the media and the public in rural, suburban, and urban areas, and allay any fears about the government’s gun safety agenda, the Liberal MP said.

“People [MPs] are quite nervous,” the MP said. “They’re nervous about the direction the government might go and they [the government] might be too hard [on gun owners], and that it might alienate some voters in rural areas.”

A second MP, also speaking on a not-for-attribution basis, said the government should make a strong case to Canadians, using statistics, about the issues involved, why it is taking action, and how it would solve those issues, before tabling the legislation.

That MP pointed to the use of the word “inventory” in one of the the Liberals’ election platform promises around gun safety—a word not repeated in Public Safety Minister Ralph Goodale’s mandate letter—as potentially problematic, as it could be spun by the Liberals’ opponents as a reintroduction of the long-gun registry.

The 2015 party platform said a Liberal government would “require firearms vendors to keep records of all firearms inventory and sales to assist police in investigating firearms trafficking and other gun crimes.” It also said it would not create a new national long-gun registry, which Mr. Goodale’s office has repeated numerous times since.

“More information and clarity is needed,” the Liberal MP said. “What’s an inventory? Sounds pretty close to a registry. It’s a problem.”

The government has touted more stringent background checks for gun licence applicants as one of the centrepieces of its forthcoming legislation.

“As controversial as measures related to firearms can be, and you have seen the debates provoked in the past around these issues, that particular point with respect to background checks and making sure that it is a system that works to protect public safety, that is an area where there is broad consensus,” Mr. Goodale said during a press conference earlier this month at his day-long guns and gangs summit in Ottawa.

‘They should be worried’

The upcoming gun legislation is likely to include a requirement that gun retailers keep records of who they sell to, which could then be individually accessed by police with a warrant, said Tracey Wilson, vice-president of public relations for the Canadian Coalition for Firearms Rights.

Ms. Wilson said there was nothing unreasonable about that requirement, provided it was not be torqued in the legislation into something different. Mr. Zimmer said he did not see gun safety as a partisan issue, and would support enhanced background checks for criminal activity or mental health issues.

“We don’t want anybody to possess a firearm that’s either going to harm somebody else or themselves,” he said.

Mr. Sopuck, however, compared the record-keeping requirement to a “backdoor registry,” particularly if it were to apply to the private, second-hand gun sales between individuals. Both he and Ms. Wilson, however, said they did not believe that was likely to be a component of the government’s legislation.

“If they require the registration of private sales, the gun registry is back,” said Mr. Sopuck.

The Chrétien government brought in the requirement that all gun owners be licensed and registered in 1993 through Bill C-68. The registry was eventually scrapped by Stephen Harper’s Conservative government in 2012, making good on a promise by public safety minister Stockwell Day in 2006, after years of criticism and cost-overruns.

“It just seemed to feed into that urban-rural divide, that yet again a problem that optically seemed to be an urban problem, the solution was on the backs of rural gun owners,” said political consultant Joe Jordan, who represented the rural riding of Leeds-Grenville, Ont., for the Liberals from 1997 to 2006.

An “unrelenting” gun lobby and public opposition to the cost overruns for the registry amplified that opposition, he said. The registry cost ballooned to $2-billion after an initial estimate from the government that it would cost $119-million.

However, Mr. Jordan said he “would be hard-pressed to say that we lost ridings because of it,” pointing to majority governments for the Chrétien Liberals in 1997 and 2000 after bringing in the registry.

The Liberals also drew criticism when they introduced Bill C-52 last year, to provide Quebec with some data from the old long-gun registry. Mr. Goodale defended the move as nothing more than eliminating legal roadblocks to Quebec’s attempts to secure the information that were put in place under the previous Conservative government. The Conservative Party, however, is calling C-52 a “back door to the long gun registry,” in a page on its website. The bill has not moved past first reading since last June.

Sheldon Clare, president of the National Firearms Association, said his group would target any MPs in vulnerable ridings in the next election who supported gun legislation the NFA did not approve of. He said the NFA typically focuses its pre-election campaigning on the 15 to 20 of the most vulnerable rural ridings.

“We’re going to have to see what [the bill] says. We need to know exactly what is being proposed before we can start being critical of it,” he said.

One Liberal MP told The Hill Times earlier this month that the gun legislation was “scaring the hell out of the Liberal caucus.” Liberal rural caucus chair T.J. Harvey (Tobique-Mactaquac, N.B.) raised concerns about the caucus not being consulted adequately about the bill’s contents in a recent caucus meeting, and was verbally “attacked” by the Prime Minister Justin Trudeau (Papineau, Que.), according to some Liberals who attended the meeting.

Mr. Trudeau responded in a “passionate tone” that there had been more-than sufficient consultation, one MP told The Hill Times last week.

Ms. Wilson said Liberal MPs were right to be nervous about the bill.

“[If the] government puts forward more arbitrary regulations on Canada’s safest sector of the population while doing nothing on crime, I think that, yes, they’ve got to look after their interest in their ridings as well,” said Ms. Wilson. “And ridings, we know from history, are won and lost on the gun issue, many times. I think they should be worried, but that should also encourage them to work with their team to come out with some positive legislation.”

The gun bill is also expected to include a change to the paper authorization form used for international travel, and a requirement that gun retailers confirm that buyers have gun licences that are still valid, said Ms. Wilson.

CCFR officials are holding three lobby days on Parliament Hill, March 20-22, and have meetings scheduled with Mr. Harvey and with Conservative MPs Larry Miller (Bruce-Grey-Owen Sound, Ont.), Steven Blaney (Bellechasse-Les Etchemins-Lévis, Que.), Brad Trost (Saskatoon-University, Sask.), Mr. Zimmer, Blaine Caulkins (Red Deer-Lacombe, Alta.), Mr. Sopuck, Pierre Paul-Hus (Charlesbourg-Haute-Saint-Charles, Que.), Garnett Genuis (Sherwood Park-Fort Saskatchewan, Alta.), and Arnold Viersen (Peace River-Westlock, Alta.). CCFR officials have also requested a meeting with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau (Papineau), Mr. Goodale, and Liberal MP Will Amos (Pontiac, Que.), but had not heard back last week.

Mr. Harvey declined an interview request from The Hill Times, referring it instead to the office of Mr. Goodale.

Scott Bardsley, Mr. Goodale’s press secretary, said via email he could not disclose the contents of the bill, but the bill is expected to make good on the Liberals’ 2015 election promise by restricting access to handguns and assault weapons.

“There have been many efforts in the past by different governments aligned with firearms safety that have foundered in the process,” Mr. Goodale told reporters at an event in Saskatoon in January. “We’re working very hard to make sure that we get a piece of legislation that actually achieves the objective, does so in a way that enhances the safety of Canadians but at he same time respects the rights of law-abiding firearms users.”

When asked whether the government would be running a public information campaign about the bill, or providing Liberal MPs with information or communications advice in advance of its release, Mr. Bardsley said information about the bill would be “provided in due course.”

Gun control a ‘gendered issue’: Cukier

Ms. Wilson said she was pleased with what she heard during Mr. Goodale’s summit on guns and gangs in Ottawa earlier this month, and applauded the effort to bring together stakeholders to devise a strategy for tackling gun crime.

However, Wendy Cukier, a spokesperson for the Coalition for Gun Control, said focusing on guns and gangs wasn’t good enough, and said the Liberals’ campaign promises around gun control were not very strong.

“They seem to be narrowly focusing in on issues related to gangs and guns, which are very important, but that’s certainly not the whole picture of the problems of firearms violence in Canada.”

Ms. Cukier said some high-powered rifles that are listed as unrestricted should be restricted, and that too many weapons classified as restricted or prohibited were being sold to the public. She framed gun control as a “gendered issue,” in part because guns are more often owned by men, and said ignoring it could backfire for the Liberal government.

“I think there could be real political consequences.”

The anxious Liberal caucus should stand together for better gun control, she said, to avoid being picked apart by pro-gun advocacy groups during the election campaign.

“If you have a solid caucus that stands together for what is right and what is evidenced based, they can’t pick you off the way they can when they are targeting just a few people. The irony is that the Members of Parliament who are running scared and undermining the efforts to bring in stronger gun laws are simply creating the environment in which the gun lobby and its allies can do their dirty work, whereas if people stuck together, it wouldn’t be an issue.”

NDP MP Matthew Dubé (Beloeil-Chambly, Que.) said his party was not discussing support for another long-gun registry. He said there was frustration in his constituency about gun safety being treated as a wedge issue over the years by Liberals and Conservatives.

He said he was “troubled” to see comments from Conservative leader Andrew Scheer (Regina-Qu’Appelle, Sask.) during his campaign for the party leadership last year about the need to take the authority to classify guns away from the RCMP and give it to the public safety minister.

“This can’t be a political thing. Who knows best for public safety? The men and women in uniform, that’s our approach,” said Mr. Dube, his party’s public safety critic.

Don’t dawdle bringing it through Parliament: Jordan

Mr. Jordan suggested the government use a “Three P” strategy for the gun legislation rollout, with specific tactics related to politics, policy, and parliamentary procedure. Mr. Jordan, a former parliamentary secretary to former prime minister Jean Chrétien, said in an interview he didn’t see a problem with the Liberals’ campaign platform promises around gun safety, but he expected the Conservatives and gun lobby would push back anyway.

To address that, Mr. Jordan suggested, the government should seek third party validators such as the police associations, or the chiefs of police, ahead of time, to endorse the government’s legislation. He said the government should plan to get the bill through the House and the Senate sharply, so as not to let the opposition parties use the parliamentary process to “crap on the government,” for example using witnesses in the committee stage.

“The policy looks reasonable, the politics is going to be interesting,” he said.



Guns in Canada: by the numbers

2,076,840—Number of firearms licenses in Canada, 2016

Source: 2016 Commissioner of Firearms Report

Gun homicides by year, nationwide

2012 2013 2014 2015 2016
171 134 155 179 223

Source: Statistics Canada

2016 gun homicides by weapon, nationwide

Handgun: 130

Rifle or shotgun: 50

Sawed-off rifle or shotgun: 13

Other firearm type: 30

Source: Statistics Canada

Average gun-related deaths per year, nationwide

1,300—80% suicides

Source: Justice Canada

Guns in Canada: by the polls

“The Canadian government should reinstate the requirement for commercial gun sellers to keep records of sales and require private sellers to report gun transfers to the authorities.”

-85% agree nationwide

Source: Environics poll, March 6-8, 2018, 1,288 responses

Canadians concerned about gun violence in their community

Concerned Neither Not concerned Don’t know
Urban 41% 25% 32% 2%
Rural 28% 28% 41% 3%

Source: Policy Options Magazine, March 9. Hill and Knowlton survey of 1,138 respondents, February 9-14, 2018, margin of error of plus or minus 2.9 percent, 19 times out of 20.

Views on current gun laws, by federal party support

Not strict enough About right Too strict Don’t know
Liberal 50 35 4 11
Conservative 34 40 15 11
NDP 58 25 5 13

Source: Policy Options Magazine, March 9. Hill and Knowlton survey of 1,138 respondents, February 9-14, 2018, margin of error of plus or minus 2.9 percent, 19 times out of 20.

Status of government bills

HOUSE OF COMMONS

Second reading:
•C-5, An Act to Repeal Division 20 of Part 3 of the Economic Action Plan 2015 Act, No. 1
•C-12, An Act to amend the Canadian Forces Members and Veterans Reestablishment and Compensation Act
•C-27, An Act to amend the Pension Benefits Standards Act, 1985
•C-28, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (victim surcharge)
•C-32, An Act related to the repeal of section 159 of the Criminal Code
•C-33, An Act to amend the Canada Elections Act
•C-34, An Act to amend the Public Service Labour Relations Act
•C-38, An Act to amend an Act to amend the Criminal Code (exploitation and trafficking in persons)
•C-39, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (unconstitutional provisions)
•C-42, Veterans Well-being Act
•C-43, An Act respecting a payment to be made out of the Consolidated Revenue Fund to support a pan-Canadian artificial intelligence strategy
•C-52, Supporting Vested Rights Under Access to Information Act
•C-56, An Act to amend the Corrections and Conditional Release Act and the Abolition of Early Parole Act
•C-68, An Act to amend the Fisheries Act and other Acts in consequence
•C-69, An Act to amend the Impact Assessment Act and the Canadian Energy Regulator Act, to amend the Navigation Protection Act and to make consequential amendments to other Acts

Committee:
•S-5, An Act to amend the Tobacco Act and the Non-smokers’ Health Act
•C-47, An Act to amend the Export and Import Permits Act and the Criminal Code (amendments permitting the accession to the Arms Trade Treaty)
•C-59, An Act respecting national security matters
•C-62, An Act to amend the Federal Public Sector Labour Relations Act and other Acts
•C-65, An Act to amend the Canada Labour Code (harassment and violence)

Report stage:
•C-21, An Act to amend the Customs Act
•C-48, Oil Tanker Moratorium Act
•C-55, An Act to amend the Oceans Act and the Canada Petroleum Resources Act
•C-57, An Act to amend the Federal Sustainable Development Act
•C-64, Wrecked, Abandoned, or Hazardous Vessels Act

SENATE

Second reading:
•C-24, An Act to amend the Salaries Act and the Financial Administration Act
•C-45, Cannabis Act
•C-50, An Act to amend the Canada Elections Act (political financing)
•C-51, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and the Department of Justice Act
•C-58, An Act to amend the Access to Information Act and the Privacy Act
•C-66, Expungement of Historically Unjust Convictions Act

Committee:
•C-46, An Act to amend the Criminal Code (offences relating to conveyances)
•C-49, Transportation Modernization Act
•C-70, Cree Nation of Eeyou Istchee Governance Agreement Act

Third reading:
•C-25, An Act to amend the Canada Business Corporations Act, Canada Cooperatives Act, Canada Not-for-profit Corporations Act, and Competition Act

hxxp://www.hilltimes.com/2018/03/19/liberal-mps-call-cabinet-get-ahead-attacks-gun-bill-firearms-lobby-heads-ottawa/137843

tdod101
03-19-2018, 05:54 PM
So now Wendy is getting in on the gender politics. Wasn't there a post around here earlier that said if woman want to be equal they should buy a gun?

Doug_M
03-19-2018, 06:17 PM
Some Conservatives are already polishing their cudgels.

Yes, yes we are!


“People [MPs] are quite nervous,” the MP said. “They’re nervous about the direction the government might go and they [the government] might be too hard [on gun owners], and that it might alienate some voters in rural areas.”

Too hard!? There is no valid reason for more legislation targeting gun owners at all, none!


A second MP, also speaking on a not-for-attribution basis, said the government should make a strong case to Canadians, using statistics, about the issues involved, why it is taking action, and how it would solve those issues, before tabling the legislation.

Lol, sorry non-attributed Liberal MP but the statistics are on our side, not yours.


The government has touted more stringent background checks for gun licence applicants as one of the centrepieces of its forthcoming legislation.

Why? Where's the evidence the current regimen isn't working?


An “unrelenting” gun lobby...

You ain't seen nothing yet buddy. We're connected through social media now.


Ms. Cukier said some high-powered rifles that are listed as unrestricted should be restricted, and that too many weapons classified as restricted or prohibited were being sold to the public. She framed gun control as a “gendered issue,” in part because guns are more often owned by men, and said ignoring it could backfire for the Liberal government.

Chainsaws are also most often owned by men. So are hammers. What's your point?


“If you have a solid caucus that stands together for what is right and what is evidenced based, they can’t pick you off the way they can when they are targeting just a few people. The irony is that the Members of Parliament who are running scared and undermining the efforts to bring in stronger gun laws are simply creating the environment in which the gun lobby and its allies can do their dirty work, whereas if people stuck together, it wouldn’t be an issue.”

Lol...oh Wendy, you crack me up. The evidence is on our side. You manufacture your "evidence". Our work is defending our rights, your work is the dirty work.



Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

Gunexpert007
03-19-2018, 06:22 PM
I see that rookie liberal MP Karen Ludwig from N.B. is bringing Mark Holland to her rural riding to try and defend any new firearm regulations.....it is obvious that there are some very worried liberal MPs out there .

Carguy2550
03-19-2018, 06:30 PM
Let's not forget that Wendy was also responsible for the firearms scheme in South Africa....which has now left many land owners defenceless and dead due to a tyrannical and unintelligent governments decision to confiscate farm land in the name of reconciliation and social justice.

Forbes/Hutton
03-19-2018, 06:47 PM
Let's not forget that Wendy was also responsible for the firearms scheme in South Africa....which has now left many land owners defenceless and dead due to a tyrannical and unintelligent governments decision to confiscate farm land in the name of reconciliation and social justice.

If it were non-whites being targeted in SA, Wendy would be keeping a low profile in case a genocide charge came her way.

Carguy2550
03-19-2018, 06:52 PM
If it were non-whites being targeted in SA, Wendy would be keeping a low profile in case a genocide charge came her way.

Oh good, at least one more person that understands this social justice lie. As far as genocide goes, due to "equality" being pushed in everyone's face....she is immune from nothing.

PS. Becoming an MP is on my list of things to do. For the sole reason of returning Canada to an individual centric nation, where representitive gov't reigns, the same way it was founded and built.

Stew
03-19-2018, 07:34 PM
ah yes, the gendered issues, seems Sweden has those too
6774

Carguy2550
03-19-2018, 07:36 PM
Sounds like Ms. Smog needs to fix her/his/its - self.

killer kane
03-20-2018, 07:48 AM
Let's not forget that Wendy was also responsible for the firearms scheme in South Africa....which has now left many land owners defenceless and dead due to a tyrannical and unintelligent governments decision to confiscate farm land in the name of reconciliation and social justice.

That sounds like something that should be brought up any time she opens her flap on paper, online, or on air and the comments sections and call in lines are open

FallisCowboy
03-20-2018, 08:11 AM
That sounds like something that should be brought up any time she opens her flap on paper, online, or on air and the comments sections and call in lines are open

Exactly^^^ as the whole reason why citizens must not be denied the human "right" of access to firearms. I wonder how Wendy even lives with herself knowing that she was an enabler to a genocidal purge in SA.

Billythreefeathers
03-20-2018, 08:44 AM
Mr. Jordan said he “would be hard-pressed to say that we lost ridings because of it,”

the harder you squeeze the more you lose

this liberal gun bill is just what the CPC wanted

chuckbuster
03-20-2018, 09:05 AM
Mr. Jordan said he “would be hard-pressed to say that we lost ridings because of it,”

the harder you squeeze the more you lose

this liberal gun bill is just what the CPC wanted

Speaking of which...has the Liberal Gun Owner Maleficarium been released yet?

Marcel
03-20-2018, 09:30 AM
Ms. Skog is a nutjob and Kookier needs a swift kick in the junk.

superbad
03-20-2018, 09:56 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW3DfNZ5d-0

superbad
03-20-2018, 10:01 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPTjlewT0DM

FALover
03-20-2018, 10:11 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPTjlewT0DM

F**king retard truly needs some time in a Chinese reeducation camp. He has no idea of what he speaks and I for one want him to burn in hell. Trigger him at every turn, he will reveal his true nature in due time.

Suputin
03-20-2018, 10:38 AM
“If it’s not done soft and gentle in a way that people can feel there’s a buy in, it’s going to lead to the Conservatives using this as a cudgel to beat the Liberals over the head with, at some point,” one Liberal MP, speaking on a not-for-attribution basis, told The Hill Times.

Buy in? They will NEVER get buy in from knowledgeable gun owners because we are not the problem but they insist on making us the target anyway. Why would we buy in to that kind of idiocy?

firemachine69
03-21-2018, 11:50 AM
Mr. Jordan said he “would be hard-pressed to say that we lost ridings because of it,”

the harder you squeeze the more you lose

this liberal gun bill is just what the CPC wanted




I suspect CPC super-majority in 2019.

killer kane
03-21-2018, 12:01 PM
I suspect CPC super-majority in 2019.

I'm hoping!