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LifeLine
11-06-2018, 06:20 PM
I take a look at what I consider too be one of the best military grade sniper rifles in the world. The PGW DGTI Coyote is the little brother to the Timberwolf which is commonly used by Canadian Forces snipers as well as other militaries and agencies.around the world.

Unfortunately during filming the groupings the rifle wasn't shooting as accurately as it previously was. this was caused by a carbon ring that built up in the chamber causing excessive pressure and reduced accuracy by the pressure spikes. This rifle consistently would group .1-.3 MOA at 100 yards.

Visit PGWs website here: www.pgwdti.com for more info. Follow me on Instagram @ryanlifeline


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kennymo
11-06-2018, 07:32 PM
Nice range. Shilo?

Lee Enfield
11-06-2018, 08:30 PM
Price less scope??

no-one special
11-06-2018, 09:41 PM
Didn't the Canadian DND dump these and cancel the balance of the contract?

LifeLine
11-06-2018, 10:27 PM
No the Canadian Military never had a contract with this rifle

LifeLine
11-06-2018, 10:27 PM
Some was filmed in Brandon some was filmed east of Winnipeg

Suputin
11-07-2018, 12:37 PM
a carbon ring that built up in the chamber causing excessive pressure and reduced velocity

Does not compute. How does excess pressure result in reduced velocity? Could under pressure produce more velocity?

50 B.M.G.
11-07-2018, 01:56 PM
Does not compute. How does excess pressure result in reduced velocity? Could under pressure produce more velocity?

It is the new laws of physics at work here. If a gun doesn't shoot well them fake up an excuse for it.

Lee Enfield
11-07-2018, 02:55 PM
I'll ask again HOW MUCH minus scope?????

Drache
11-07-2018, 03:11 PM
I'll ask again HOW MUCH minus scope?????

Last I checked the Coyote starts around $5000-$6000? Give or take...

JustBen
11-07-2018, 05:05 PM
It is the new laws of physics at work here. If a gun doesn't shoot well them fake up an excuse for it.

I’m worried that might closed to the truth than anyone thinks. He hasn’t posted any videos of himself shooting well.

Petamocto
11-07-2018, 06:06 PM
I’m not so sure anything could be considered the ultimate sniper rifle.

Based on what criteria? Accuracy alone isn’t enough, because you could build a 50 pound rifle that’s a laser beam.

The “ultimate” sniper rifle would have to be a balance of accuracy + reach + weight + follow up shots + report all in one equation, and no rifle can be great at all of those.

Semi auto counts for a lot, but it adds weight and above 7.62 and a certain magnification it’s almost pointless because your field of view for the recoil is too thin.

The thing about snipers is that you don’t have to have just one wonder gun to do everything, because you generally have a #2 with an AR-like suppressed platform to handle everything close up.

We just held the annual Canadian International Sniper Concentration at the Infantry School, and it was fascinating to watch different types of teams attacking the same problem differently.

If you could just have one gun that had to do everything, though, it would be have to be a semi-auto between 7.62 and 338 Lapua because one is too little gun and the other is too much gun.

Buster
11-07-2018, 08:24 PM
I’m not so sure anything could be considered the ultimate sniper rifle.

Based on what criteria? Accuracy alone isn’t enough, because you could build a 50 pound rifle that’s a laser beam.

The “ultimate” sniper rifle would have to be a balance of accuracy + reach + weight + follow up shots + report all in one equation, and no rifle can be great at all of those.

Semi auto counts for a lot, but it adds weight and above 7.62 and a certain magnification it’s almost pointless because your field of view for the recoil is too thin.

The thing about snipers is that you don’t have to have just one wonder gun to do everything, because you generally have a #2 with an AR-like suppressed platform to handle everything close up.

We just held the annual Canadian International Sniper Concentration at the Infantry School, and it was fascinating to watch different types of teams attacking the same problem differently.

If you could just have one gun that had to do everything, though, it would be have to be a semi-auto between 7.62 and 338 Lapua because one is too little gun and the other is too much gun.

I don't know what type of performance people really get from the memo omen in 300win mag, but if it's what the manufactured claims it to be, I'll drop 10k on one in a heartbeat if it were non-restricted in Canada.

Suputin
11-08-2018, 03:23 PM
It is the new laws of physics at work here. If a gun doesn't shoot well them fake up an excuse for it.

It would help if the excuse made at least a shred of sense. Cause otherwise it just attracts attention to the thing they are trying to hide.

Suputin
11-08-2018, 03:29 PM
I’m not so sure anything could be considered the ultimate sniper rifle.

If you could just have one gun that had to do everything, though, it would be have to be a semi-auto between 7.62 and 338 Lapua because one is too little gun and the other is too much gun.

Don't know that I'd necessarily agree.

Semi-autos are less accurate, more complex and less reliable than a comparable bot gun. The entire point of being a sniper is to not be seen and to not take too many shots from the same spot. Also taking shots from distance greatly reduces the need for quick follow up shots.

While I get that 7.62 is a current military caliber, it isn't the best long range caliber. Smaller bullets with higher velocity are more effective downrange, have a flatter trajectory, a longer supersonic envelope and are easier to shoot due to reduced recoil.

Other than the rare ultra long range shots, a caliber the size of 338 LM is too much. It is hard on the barrel, hard on the shooter and requires a bigger and heavier platform to lug around. I'd suspect the vast majority of sniper shots are taken well within the performance envelope of 7.62 rifles.

LifeLine
11-08-2018, 03:43 PM
Sorry I miss typed. Excessive pressure and velocity spikes caused reduced accuracy.

Suputin
11-08-2018, 03:46 PM
Sorry I miss typed. Excessive pressure and velocity spikes caused reduced accuracy.

And how do you know there was excessive pressure and velocity spikes?

LifeLine
11-08-2018, 03:48 PM
Actually in the other video you are referring to. It was the rifle shooting innaccuratly it was compared to another rifle and the grouping of the other rifle was decent considering it was minus20 degrees and the ammo was loaded for the rifle that shot terribly. If you’re going to be a ATRS troll maybe get your facts right

LifeLine
11-08-2018, 03:56 PM
What would you like the name of the video to be?

Suputin
11-08-2018, 04:33 PM
Actually in the other video you are referring to. It was the rifle shooting innaccuratly it was compared to another rifle and the grouping of the other rifle was decent considering it was minus20 degrees and the ammo was loaded for the rifle that shot terribly. If you’re going to be a ATRS troll maybe get your facts right

Me? An ATRS troll? :argh

I could not be the furthest thing from that. Trust me on this. I would NEVER in a hundred billions years troll for them. Not even if a gun was put to my head would I troll for them.

As to a video? No idea what video you are referring to.

LifeLine
11-08-2018, 06:05 PM
No not you

6MT
11-08-2018, 07:17 PM
I have both the Coyote and the C14. Love 'em both!

both are 1/3moa or better rifles when I do my part

And yeah, those groups in the video aren't the greatest. But neither is the ammo he's using. And throw in a wee bit of operator .....let's say....(OK, I won't say).

With handloads, these really shine. I've had some well known people try both my Coyote and Timberwolf out. They were impressed.

Expensive? Yes. But that over engineered model 70 action and big heavy Kreiger barrel, do wonders in a military environment. Not to mention the civilian one too. I will be rechamberring my Coyote in 6.5x47L when the time comes. I've also changed out those brakes on both rifles. You can do much better than that "thing" that PGW uses.

The worse thing...? Those silly proprietary magazines. In .308, you need to really seat deep to get that round to fit that silly seven (why seven?) round mag. That's why I single feed mine. (When I re-do things in the x47 round, that magazine will finally work properly with the shorter round no matter how long I make it.) Too bad it will still only be seven rounds.

Are they for everyone? Nope. But they are bad-a$$.

and no, they are not the "ultimate" sniper rifle

https://i.postimg.cc/pdKFDQ44/DSCN9915.jpg

Petamocto
11-08-2018, 08:05 PM
Seputin,

I can’t even begin to understand your post. I said that the optimal caliber would be something between 7.62mm and 338 Lapua, and then you explained why 7.62 is too small and 338 is too large.

Do you understand the concept of a range or spectrum? In using those calibers as my bookends, I was not supporting either but stating that the best calibre would be between the two.

My point was that I knew both of those had bell curves that were close but not perfect, but at some point they would overlap, and that’s what I was saying would be the “ideal” caliber as brought up in the original post.

Suputin
11-08-2018, 09:51 PM
Seputin,

I can’t even begin to understand your post. I said that the optimal caliber would be something between 7.62mm and 338 Lapua, and then you explained why 7.62 is too small and 338 is too large.

Do you understand the concept of a range or spectrum? In using those calibers as my bookends, I was not supporting either but stating that the best calibre would be between the two.

My point was that I knew both of those had bell curves that were close but not perfect, but at some point they would overlap, and that’s what I was saying would be the “ideal” caliber as brought up in the original post.

I posted
While I get that 7.62 is a current military caliber, it isn't the best long range caliber. Smaller bullets with higher velocity are more effective downrange, have a flatter trajectory, a longer supersonic envelope and are easier to shoot due to reduced recoil.

K, I can kinda see how what I wrote might not be 100% clear. What I meant was that calibers smaller than .308 work better at longer ranges. I was thinking of 6mm and 6.5mm rounds. The problem with .30 cal is that 308 doesn't really drive projectiles fast enough and something like 300 Mag or the other .30 cal magnums produce a lot of felt recoil which makes shooting them unpleasant and more difficult for the average marksman.

I've been shooting a 308W at long distances lately and its really difficult to find a combination of BC and muzzle velocity that will propel the bullet out much past 1200yds or thereabouts. Years ago I had a hot-rodded 243 and that thing would easily chuck bullets well out past a mile with way less recoil and a flatter trajectory.

I've shot a 338LM and a 338 RUM a few times and those things are downright unpleasant to shoot. Sure they huck a Jesus big chunk of lead downrange but honestly, who wants to shoot that thing enough to get really good at it? Whereas with my old 243, it was a pleasure to go out and practice at long ranges.

Years ago I did a bit of research and it turns out 6.5mm is where the combination of bullet weight and velocity peak. This would seem to be the ultimate long range caliber.

LifeLine
11-09-2018, 09:13 AM
I agree the groupings weren’t great and I was very disappointed in them. I wanted to use factory ammo so that it was fair for demonstration. Unfortunately the chamber needed a really good cleaning. I w have handloads that shoot much better bother using bergers and Mosley RDFs. Now that it’s clean I will re film the groupings and film it. Unfortunately it’s too late to add it to the video. There were many delays and parts I edited out that shows reliability. For example the day I was shooting at the sand put the wind was gusting up to 30km/h and sand was filling the action. I also noticed you mentioned 7 round mags PGW must have changed the mag all of mine hold 10 rounds. I also modified MDT followers and springs to make the mags more reliable. The flat price of plastic they call a follower is a joke. I’m still able to fit 20 rounds with the mdt follower and spring it was just a bit of missing the follower to get them to fit. I also found that mag extensions such as the area419 and MPA will fit the mag to give you more rounds maybe you could look into those

I have both the Coyote and the C14. Love 'em both!

both are 1/3moa or better rifles when I do my part

And yeah, those groups in the video aren't the greatest. But neither is the ammo he's using. And throw in a wee bit of operator .....let's say....(OK, I won't say).

With handloads, these really shine. I've had some well known people try both my Coyote and Timberwolf out. They were impressed.

Expensive? Yes. But that over engineered model 70 action and big heavy Kreiger barrel, do wonders in a military environment. Not to mention the civilian one too. I will be rechamberring my Coyote in 6.5x47L when the time comes. I've also changed out those brakes on both rifles. You can do much better than that "thing" that PGW uses.

The worse thing...? Those silly proprietary magazines. In .308, you need to really seat deep to get that round to fit that silly seven (why seven?) round mag. That's why I single feed mine. (When I re-do things in the x47 round, that magazine will finally work properly with the shorter round no matter how long I make it.) Too bad it will still only be seven rounds.

Are they for everyone? Nope. But they are bad-a$$.

and no, they are not the "ultimate" sniper rifle

https://i.postimg.cc/pdKFDQ44/DSCN9915.jpg

6MT
11-09-2018, 10:59 AM
I did not realize that PGW had changed the mags. Mine for the Coyote only hold 7 rounds of the .308 sized case. There is no plastic parts on them. They are all steel. The same for the C14.

LifeLine
11-10-2018, 09:55 AM
Even the followers were steel? I bet you could order some followers from MDT and get them to fit your mags allowing you to get more rounds in there
I did not realize that PGW had changed the mags. Mine for the Coyote only hold 7 rounds of the .308 sized case. There is no plastic parts on them. They are all steel. The same for the C14.

6MT
11-10-2018, 04:57 PM
Even the followers were steel? I bet you could order some followers from MDT and get them to fit your mags allowing you to get more rounds in there

Well, it's a moot point with the .308 case and that mag. When I rechamber to the x47 round, I'll be able to stack the short fatty in that mag no problem. I don't mind single feeding the Coyote anyways. In fact I had it out today for the first time since July. Doping the wind today out to 800m...what a hoot!