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Mass-effect
12-26-2012, 07:59 PM
I have seen a video or two on youtube where people easily convert their slingshots to accomodate arrows. (most often with adding a ring of sorts to guide the arrow). Other research has told me that the slingshot in mind shoots at about 300fps with the bands it comes with, but other bands offered 'guarantee' 800fps for BB projectiles. Some of these youtube videos claim that once equipped for arrows, big game could be taken with this method.

I know there are draw length laws for hunting controlled hunts with bow and arrow, that a slingshot likely wouldnt conform to. So our hunting laws aside, is there merrit to this? Is this setup capable of taking down large game? Any insight?

jwirecom109
12-26-2012, 08:26 PM
Jack of all trades makes several types of slingshot archery type things, I can't remember the names of them, I'd PM for more information.

They can be used for hunting, their a primitive season tool, but are shot range.

Mass-effect
12-26-2012, 08:39 PM
Ok great thanks :)

Forbes/Hutton
12-26-2012, 10:38 PM
A problem your're going to have: if you need 65lbs of draw weight to take a deer with a bow you'll still need 65lbs of draw on a slingshot. With most bows now offering 65% or better in draw reduction instead of holding 23lbs at full draw with a compound, you'll be holding the full 65lbs as you aim. Plus a bow string has a lot less aerodyamic drag than a latex cord, so the slingshot would have to be 5-10lbs heavier than a bow to get the same power behind the arrow.

Mass-effect
12-27-2012, 07:24 AM
A problem your're going to have: if you need 65lbs of draw weight to take a deer with a bow you'll still need 65lbs of draw on a slingshot. With most bows now offering 65% or better in draw reduction instead of holding 23lbs at full draw with a compound, you'll be holding the full 65lbs as you aim. Plus a bow string has a lot less aerodyamic drag than a latex cord, so the slingshot would have to be 5-10lbs heavier than a bow to get the same power behind the arrow.

this is mostly what i was considering when I didnt have faith in it being feasable.....thanks for the reiteration :)

Drache
12-27-2012, 08:49 AM
if you need 65lbs of draw weight to take a deer with a bow

Never understood that law. Lot of bows in the history of many rarely reached draw weights like that yet were used to killing man and beast pretty easily.

Forbes/Hutton
12-27-2012, 10:43 AM
Never understood that law. Lot of bows in the history of many rarely reached draw weights like that yet were used to killing man and beast pretty easily.

I don't know about the law, I just pulled that from my hat as I don't hunt. I just used 65# as an example of the "extra" effort it will take to hold at full draw while you aim without the effect of a compound bow. I used to have a compound set at 60# and a recurve at 50# both for target. This was back in the days of 50% let off and lots of compound shooters who tried the recurve couldn't hold full draw long enough to aim.

jwirecom109
12-27-2012, 11:37 AM
Persons hunting big game must use an authorized bow and an authorized arrow. An authorized bow is one that is held, drawn and released by muscular power and has a draw weight of not less than 18 kg (40 lb.). This is the number of kilograms (pounds) required to draw an arrow of 71 cm (28 in.) to its head. An authorized arrow is one that is not less than 61 cm (24 in.) in length that has a tip that bears a head that is not intentionally designed to resist being withdrawn after it has penetrated an object. Furthermore, it must either have a solid, sharp cutting head of at least 7/8 inch in width, or a head that, when the arrow impacts, opens to present sharp cutting edges at least 7/8 inch in width.

http://www.albertaregulations.ca/huntingregs/gameregs.html#bowhunting

Not sure where the 65 lbs draw weight law is from but in Alberta its 40 Lbs

Biggunners
12-28-2012, 10:31 AM
Yap - it's 40lb in Ontario too but accuracy will falter in most shots out of sling shots with arrows - Biggs

Laicosin
04-05-2013, 08:46 AM
Don't spear-fishers just use a long slingshot to launch their "spears"? I don't know the draw weight of such a device, but if it can take fish it could probably take small game.

BowBob59
05-18-2013, 11:51 AM
To be used in an archery season it would have to be considered archery equipment which it is not and to be honest should never be. Many have tried to get the paint ball guns to shoot arrows and have attained over 800 fps. They have been rejected as legal archery equipment. Would love to see what it takes to get a sling shot to shoot 300 fps and just how accurate it can be in the hands of normal Joe out there. 40# in Ontario is correct for deer setup in Ontario but be careful on this wording with traditional bows at different draw lengths and weights.

Drache
05-18-2013, 12:29 PM
To be used in an archery season it would have to be considered archery equipment which it is not and to be honest should never be.

How so? In essence it's the same as a bow.

There is a guy who took a solid wooden "bow" (doesn't bend at all) then used a giant rubber band from a spear gun. This is a 120# draw and fires arrows. Granted it's not held like a slingshot and more like a bow.


Many have tried to get the paint ball guns to shoot arrows and have attained over 800 fps. They have been rejected as legal archery equipment.

Because it's a projectile fired out of a gun....


Would love to see what it takes to get a sling shot to shoot 300 fps and just how accurate it can be in the hands of normal Joe out there. 40# in Ontario is correct for deer setup in Ontario but be careful on this wording with traditional bows at different draw lengths and weights.

The Wham-O company made a slingshot that had a draw weight of 45#

Here's a video clip that aired on a hunting channel where a guy takes one hunting Wild Hogs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av2pSSfW-WI

BowBob59
05-21-2013, 09:42 AM
How so? In essence it's the same as a bow.

No it is not the same as a bow as any and all equipment considered for archery is based on a Limb system to generate the force not rubber bands. In essence it is a sling shot that has been altered to use an arrow.


There is a guy who took a solid wooden "bow" (doesn't bend at all) then used a giant rubber band from a spear gun. This is a 120# draw and fires arrows. Granted it's not held like a slingshot and more like a bow.

First how many folks do you know that can draw a 120# bow limbs or rubber bands? English long bow are shot by those that can pull them by hand but mostly by feet for flight shooting. The limbs not only serve to create and expel energy but also control the forces to the point of arrow release. If you have ever seen the "noodle effect" on a compound solo cam bow you would see some serious flaws in using a sling shot for arrows.


Because it's a projectile fired out of a gun....

Air gun to be correct but again if delivery system other than the above mentioned approved system why would we have Archery or gun seasons?

The nice part of the video is when he states on private land. I have been to Hawaii and the count is 5 Wild pigs to each resisdent. If you can kill them with rocks they will love you. Was a small pig and did not have the fat armour side plates a real boar would have. Taxidermist, so I have seen a few. His choice on broadheads should have been cut on impact like 2 blade or 3 blade but the flight might be questionable without the mechanical used.

So again Traditional bows, Compounds and Crossbows all legal to take animals in my province for a good reason. IMHO

Would love to see a handgun season in Ontario again for deer, now that would be worth fighting for instead of a slingshot season.

Bob

Drache
05-21-2013, 11:08 AM
English long bow are shot by those that can pull them by hand but mostly by feet for flight shooting.

Are you saying that English Longbowmen sat on their butts and used their feet in the bow? I have never ever heard of that studying English Medieval Military tactics.


First how many folks do you know that can draw a 120# bow limbs or rubber bands?

The guy who made the "sling bow" can. I can provide the video if you'd like.


Was a small pig and did not have the fat armour side plates a real boar would have.

Comparing the density of a pig that size you a standard mule deer around these parts... if it kills the pig like that, it will kill a deer.

I've killed a pig with a spear. And I've seen people take a bear with a knife. As long as the arrow travels at decent enough velocity from a sling shot, I have no problem with it. Considering that Native Americans were only using bows that were around 40# or less, they used them to great effect. :D

Handgun hunting wouldn't be that bad except :
1) there would have to be strict caliber rules
2) long barrel handguns only

BowBob59
05-21-2013, 06:14 PM
Are you saying that English Longbowmen sat on their butts and used their feet in the bow? I have never ever heard of that studying English Medieval Military tactics

Yes I am saying they did it from a sitting position bow between the feet for "Flight Shooting". I did not say for war purpose or Medieval times. The relation was to HEAVY poundage bows that few can pull by hand. But if you want reflect on your study.


The guy who made the "sling bow" can. I can provide the video if you'd like.

I know folks that can pull and 90# compound and be accurate to 1 inch circles at 30 yards, I can count them on one hand....................so what is your point. (15 years as an archery shop owner)


Considering that Native Americans were only using bows that were around 40# or less, they used them to great effect.

You know I live in Essex county kind of where the War of 1812 happened and do you know what we find the most of in the fields around here, native arrow heads................thousands of them. The reason is the success rate of native archers with primitive bow was very low................................it's been said, 1 kill for every 100 arrows launched. Never studied it but after shooting a few hand made willow shooting systems I can see where issues may come up. Did they not have a game they played in the spring when they knew hunting was bad for deer populations where they would sit on a path known to be travelled by deer an sit still and try to touch the animal as it past by. This was to learn how to get the Close Shot during hunting season because long shots required extra arrow building.

I am sorry but sling shots are not bows, plain and simple and should not be allowed for big game hunting.:cool1:

Drache
05-21-2013, 06:54 PM
plain and simple and should not be allowed for big game hunting.:cool1:

If they are powerful enough to take down large game then I have no problem with it. Close up with a deer, sure. Larger than that and you're taking your life into your hands.

http://www.outyourbackdoor.com/images/articles/152019_chief.sling.deer.jpg

http://www.pocketpredator.com/pics/DeerHunter.jpg

There is even a guy who took a black bear with one in the US. Sadly the picture is really tiny:

http://www.chiefaj.com/Jeff%27s%20Black%20bear.JPG

The guy in the video shooting the feral hogs also claims to have killed 3 black bear with his. That I am impressed with.

Just watched a video where the guy chrono'd his 30lb bands and the arrow travels at 130fps. His slingshot also came with 40lb bands but he hasn't posted that video yet.

Mass-effect
05-22-2013, 09:41 AM
Thanks Drache for that video, that was really something!

BowBob59
05-22-2013, 08:45 PM
The picture at the top, the doe is full of milk...............................did he take the fawn also?

No pass through on the buck, makes for a tuff blood trail if it is a marginal hit.

We will see a handgun season before slingshots are ever accepted for big game in Canada.

Drache
05-22-2013, 08:58 PM
The picture at the top, the doe is full of milk...............................did he take the fawn also?

Seriously? Topic isn't about that http://www.supatunagt.com/smf/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif


No pass through on the buck, makes for a tuff blood trail if it is a marginal hit.

And yet there's the dead buck and a couple deer, couple bear, wild hog....

Getting to be quite the new hunting sport in the US and companies are cashing in....

Haywire1
05-22-2013, 10:49 PM
getting a little heated. stick to the topic fellas. debate is fine, snippy isnt.

Mass-effect
05-23-2013, 08:07 AM
So its my understanding then, that if it cant be classified as a bow for bow season, and it certainly doesnt meet requirements for a non restricted firearm, it is likely not legal to hunt big game with in our country. But what about non-controlled wildlife? squirrels, some birds, etc. Things we can get with our slingshots with some .30 cal bearings or something.

Drache
05-23-2013, 11:12 AM
So its my understanding then, that if it cant be classified as a bow for bow season, and it certainly doesnt meet requirements for a non restricted firearm, it is likely not legal to hunt big game with in our country. But what about non-controlled wildlife? squirrels, some birds, etc. Things we can get with our slingshots with some .30 cal bearings or something.

All that is defined under your provincial hunting regulations.

In the BC hunting regulations it defines Bow as a "Longbow" or "Crossbow".

Bow is then split into 5 parts:

Bow A (Crossbow)(does not include compound crossbow) - Must have a
pull of no less than 68 kg (150 lbs) or a bolt (quarrel) weighing no less than
16.2 g (250 grains). For big game, the bolt (quarrel) must have a broadhead
of at least 2.2 cm (7/8 in) at the widest point.

Bow B (Crossbow) (does not include compound crossbow)- Must have pull
of no less than 55 kg (120 lbs) or a bolt (quarrel) weighing no less than
16.2 g (250 grains). For big game, the bolt (quarrel) must have a broadhead
of at least 2.2 cm (7/8 in) at the widest point.

Bow C (Compound Crossbow) - Must have pull of no less than 45 kg
(100 lbs) at a peak weight or bolt weighing no less than 16.2 g (250 grains).
For big game, must have an arrow with a broadhead at least 2.2 cm (7/8
in) at the widest point.

Bow D (Longbow, Recurve, Compound) - Must have pull of no less than
18 kg (40 lbs) within the archerís draw length. For big game, must have an
arrow with a broadhead at least 2.2 cm (7/8 in) at the widest point.

Bow E (Bison only) - For bison, the bow (does not include compound
crossbow) must have a pull no less than 22.6 kg (50 lbs) within the archerís
draw length, an arrow greater than 26 g (400 grains) in weight, and a
broadhead greater than 8.1 g in weight and 2.2 cm (7/8 in) at its widest
point.

Now slingshot arrows are not classified under archery as for hunting (YET).

But unlike what BowBob59 was saying, they would easily fall under class "D" if they did, as they would meet the minimum 40lb draw. That means they would be good enough for Black Bear, Bobcat, Caribou, Cougar, Deer, Elk, Grizzly Bear, Lynx, Moose, Mountain Goat, Mountain Sheep, Wolf, and Wolverine. As well as Upland Game Birds, small game (includes Coyote), and migratory game birds.

Personally I wouldn't use it on anything larger than a deer. I think anyone using a 40lb bow for a Grizzly is playing dangerously.

Mass-effect
05-23-2013, 11:56 AM
Personally I wouldn't use it on anything larger than a deer. I think anyone using a 40lb bow for a Grizzly is playing dangerously.

haha fair enough. Thanks for the info.

BowBob59
05-23-2013, 03:46 PM
getting a little heated. stick to the topic fellas. debate is fine, snippy isnt.

I agree, since this is the archery forum, maybe they should ask for a Slingshot forum.

The doe comment is right on track, we do not shoot does in the spring in Canada.

Truly we have enough on our plates just to keep seasons open with already excepted methods of archery and a few provinces that do not understand crossbow are just as much archery as long bows and compounds.

I know I am new here so maybe there is an unwritten code where I should just nod my head yes to all the senior members. If that is the case delete my account now.

It is a novel idea and I have no issue with it for small game. But I will be vocal and draw a line, my personal opinion is it should not be used for big game and I refuse to be brow beaten by a senior member.

BowBob59
05-23-2013, 03:50 PM
So its my understanding then, that if it cant be classified as a bow for bow season, and it certainly doesnt meet requirements for a non restricted firearm, it is likely not legal to hunt big game with in our country. But what about non-controlled wildlife? squirrels, some birds, etc. Things we can get with our slingshots with some .30 cal bearings or something.

I believe it would fall under possibly prohibited as it is very close to a hand held mini crossbow but we will let the feds decide that.

Again IMHO

Drache
05-23-2013, 04:09 PM
The doe comment is right on track, we do not shoot does in the spring in Canada.

Once again I clearly state, what does shooting a lactating doe have to do on a discussion about whether or not a slingshot arrow should be allowed for hunting?


I know I am new here so maybe there is an unwritten code where I should just nod my head yes to all the senior members. If that is the case delete my account now.

We are having a debate, nothing more. I am simply stating the facts. And the only reason I'm a "senior member" is due to the number of posts. It has nothing to do with status. I'm a regular member here just like you.


I refuse to be brow beaten by a senior member.

I'm debating my personal opinion. No one is brow beating you. Are you saying you've never been on a forum where someone has a different opinion than you and has debated that fact? This is what any forum is about (how many 9mm vs .45 home defense threads have their been in my lifetime?). I've stated facts on why is should be allowed. You have stated your opinion that it shouldn't. I'm a very open person. I have no problem admitting that I'm wrong on something if someone brings hard data forward that disproves my opinion or facts. It's happened many times.

If we lived in the same city this debate would take place over a plate of buffalo wings and a couple beers until we were both sloshed singing Shania Twain songs waiting for a cab.


I believe it would fall under possibly prohibited as it is very close to a hand held mini crossbow but we will let the feds decide that.

Again IMHO

They are currently being sold in Canada so they aren't prohibited.

The main reason a mini crossbow is a prohibited weapon is due to the fact that it can be held and fired with one hand. Something a slingshot cannot do.

Former Prohibited Weapons Order, No. 3
7. A crossbow or similar device that

(a) is designed or altered to be aimed and fired by the action of one hand, whether or not it has been redesigned or subsequently altered to be aimed and fired by the action of both hands; or

(b) has a length not exceeding 500 mm.

BowBob59
05-24-2013, 07:23 PM
Agree to disagree.................


If we lived in the same city this debate would take place over a plate of buffalo wings

I don't drink but I do buy rounds.

Drache
05-24-2013, 07:39 PM
Agree to disagree.................

fair enough.

As much as I think you are bull headed, I applaud you for your convictions. You have my respect.

BowBob59
05-25-2013, 07:46 PM
fair enough.

As much as I think you are bull headed, I applaud you for your convictions. You have my respect.

Fair enough, As Redgreen would say............""we are all in this together".

Mutual Respect!

jack of all trades
07-14-2013, 07:40 PM
i''ve played around with this concept and from my experience, well, stick to small game with it. i rigged up an arrow rest on a slingshot and used a few bamboo arrows to try it out. works great on small game, rabbits, porcupine and gophers. but you would have to get some serious bands to obtain the draw weight needed to take down a deer with it. as is, i know several traditional archers that hunt anything in north america with nothing more than a 45# longbow. hell, there are guys that use atlatl's and having great success. all about shot placement.