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View Full Version : Norinco .223 from China - did I just waste my $$?



RZee
02-11-2013, 05:56 PM
Newbie looking for some solid feedback - I just purchased a case of Norinco .223 55 gr, non corrosive and brass from China - apparently! I paid $450.00 + tax for 1,600 = about $0.31 per cartridge...a good deal for me I figured as all I am doing is target from 40 up to 200 yds. Good deal or good lesson of what not to do?
:Bang head:

JustBen
02-11-2013, 06:31 PM
I don't have any experience with the .223 stuff, but the .308 is alright. It's a bit dirtier than traditional ammo, and a bit less accurate, but its great for plinking.

Strewth
02-11-2013, 06:46 PM
Terrible deal! I'll take it off your hands, and even let you pay shipping:)

I'm plinking my way through a case, and although it is dirtier than most, and maybe not as accurate (you have to determine what accuracy is for you though,...it totally does a number on Zombie Supply's zombie targets, good enough for me) it gets a thumbs up in my book. Brass looks fine to me too. I say you did great, enjoy!

DOA
02-11-2013, 07:17 PM
i have a case too, it's good enough to put holes in targets

RZee
02-11-2013, 07:44 PM
Thx Strewth - as inviting as that sounds I think I'll try a few rounds first but keep you in mind if I don't like it for some strange reason. Thx all for your feedback!
:canada:

harbl_the_cat
02-11-2013, 09:55 PM
Don't feel bad, I bought 3 crates for $490, than another for $450. I think some places have it for $420 now (maybe Canam will have it for $400 again).

It shoots reliable and accurate enough to justify stockpiling.

Definitely loading the boat, personally. For me to reload .223 with hours of work I think the material cost is about $0.20/round. The Norinco stuff is headstamped 1993-1995, meaning it's priced with the cost of copper, lead and zinc from those years - all of which have at least doubled to quadrupled since then.

8-9 years from now, you WILL see surplus 5.56/.223 ammo manufactured in 2012-2013 for $1-$2.00/round, with commercial stuff much, MUCH higher.

road kill
02-13-2013, 05:56 AM
There is a lot of discussion about whether it is 223 or 5.56x45, mine was in yellow boxes marked 223 but the wooden case is marked 5.56x45. I`m good to go with the Kel-Tec and it seems to work fine, haven`t put it to target as my range is kind of under snow. Minute of snow bank is good for now. I`m going to be stocking up like the pony dude.

RZee
02-15-2013, 01:53 PM
I just put about 100 rounds thru my Browning X-bolt this morning and this stuff was fine, no jams no duds! :shoot:

lone-wolf
02-15-2013, 01:54 PM
Anyone try reloading this stuff? Just wondering if the brass will last.

RZee
02-15-2013, 02:05 PM
I haven't - at $.31 per round - is reloading worth the time, $$$ and effort?

I am a new gun enthusiast, excuse my ignorance!

DOA
02-15-2013, 03:01 PM
I've had some cases split, way more than usual, makes me a little concerned to reload but I'm gonna try. Not any time soon though, this stuff seems to be as accurate as I would need until I get better. Might even pick up a second/third case

lone-wolf
02-15-2013, 03:05 PM
Yes, cause you're going to be left with 1600 reloadable brass cases at the end of the day

DOA
02-15-2013, 03:29 PM
That's exactly what I was suggesting my expectation was

road kill
02-16-2013, 04:28 PM
DOA, some guys report this brass may need to be anneald before reloading. I haven`t tried running any through the dies yet myself to find out.

Satain
02-16-2013, 05:20 PM
It's actually loaded to 556 spec's but be that as it may be. They labeled it 223 because of the US laws to make it easier to import back in the day before Norinco got caught in that event. Should be good to go but dirty.

DOA
02-16-2013, 10:19 PM
DOA, some guys report this brass may need to be anneald before reloading. I haven`t tried running any through the dies yet myself to find out.

That might explain the high percentage of split cases. Thanks for the heads up to be aware

RZee
02-17-2013, 10:20 AM
Been through about 200 rounds this weekend and so far so good - NO split cases but I am seeing about 5% are DUD's - dirty

DOA
02-17-2013, 11:43 AM
Been through about 200 rounds this weekend and so far so good - NO split cases but I am seeing about 5% are DUD's - dirty

Interesting, I've been through about the same and had zero duds but 5% are splitting

RZee
02-17-2013, 12:40 PM
Interesting, I've been through about the same and had zero duds but 5% are splitting

DOA- what gun are you shooting?

DOA
02-17-2013, 10:59 PM
Bushmaster AR15, you think it's the gun?

palooka
02-18-2013, 08:07 AM
Probably not if ammo will always be $.31 per round and readily available.
How optimistic are you? :)

I haven't - at $.31 per round - is reloading worth the time, $$$ and effort?

I am a new gun enthusiast, excuse my ignorance!

RZee
02-18-2013, 11:28 AM
Bushmaster AR15, you think it's the gun?

No idea, just strange that were having opposite issues!

DOA
02-18-2013, 11:34 AM
Yeah, what are you shooting? This is my first AR so I don't really know what's normal. Other guns I shoot have less than 1% split cases. I'm guessing its the ammo, maybe the load. I check and only shot 160, increasing my split case % but decreasing my sample

RZee
02-18-2013, 01:28 PM
Probably not if ammo will always be $.31 per round and readily available.
How optimistic are you? :)
Cautiously! Optimistic...

RZee
02-18-2013, 01:31 PM
Yeah, what are you shooting? This is my first AR so I don't really know what's normal. Other guns I shoot have less than 1% split cases. I'm guessing its the ammo, maybe the load. I check and only shot 160, increasing my split case % but decreasing my sample
Browning X-Bolt. Like you, I have no guage of normal as this is my first gun and I am new to the sport.

palooka
02-24-2013, 05:50 PM
I just tried the Norinco .223 for the first time yesterday. Too f...ing cold and wet to make a judgement on accuracy but no ftfs.
It is dirty..after 15 rounds I had to run over 20 patches though with solvents to get it clean.

M.T. Chambers
03-01-2013, 11:24 PM
For $450 a person could buy some very good reloading startup equipment, where you could concentrate on producing quality/accurate ammo.

FALover
03-02-2013, 12:50 AM
have shot the chinese stuff for years in my colt. always goes bang and hits where i was aiming.(but not always where i thought i was aiming ), older eyes seem to look at things a bit fuzzier now.

5.56 Medic
03-03-2013, 01:02 AM
Hey Guys, I just picked up a box of 1600 rounds of Norinco 5.56 (yellow box) ammo for $389 + tax. It must love my Norinco CQA 556! I have only shot 40 rounds but I am really surprised and happy with the results! No failures and excellent groupings at 25 Yards with iron sights. I had 4 of 5 shots in a group smaller than a dime. 3 of those 4 shots were on top of each other. I look forward to seeing if this ammo continues to shoot great.

DOA
03-03-2013, 11:43 AM
Hey Guys, I just picked up a box of 1600 rounds of Norinco 5.56 (yellow box) ammo for $389 + tax. It must love my Norinco CQA 556! I have only shot 40 rounds but I am really surprised and happy with the results! No failures and excellent groupings at 25 Yards with iron sights. I had 4 of 5 shots in a group smaller than a dime. 3 of those 4 shots were on top of each other. I look forward to seeing if this ammo continues to shoot great.

Ummm, where from??????

RZee
03-03-2013, 12:41 PM
Wow - great deal @ $389.00, do they ship to Ontario? I'll take a case. I've been through approx 350 rounds and happy so far, I am shooting a Browning X-bolt. Zero split cases but running about 5% duds!

5.56 Medic
03-08-2013, 02:49 AM
Hey, sorry for the delay. I purchased the ammo from Peter @ http://www.rustywood.ca/contact.html.
This was through a group buy set up by Rod from Civil Advantage (info@civiladvantage.com). Peter is on the forum here under rustywoodtc . He's a great guy, super helpful and has great prices on everything reloading etc.
Look forward to getting some more Norinco 223.

3MTA3
03-11-2013, 05:31 AM
I shot about 100 rounds through my AR (5.56 Chamber) with 0 problems, consistent ejection of brass into the same spot. Pretty dirty.- i wonder how the gas system will fare with this stuff?

Frostback
03-12-2013, 05:14 AM
Way back in the day (1995 or so) I bought a case. After 40 rounds through the AUG, it was so gummed up the bolt disassembled itself. It happened a second time too. Only ammo that ever did that. I won't use it again.

Frosty

boomboy
03-13-2013, 02:13 AM
Reliable gun down here on the west coast apparently has the norc .223 going for 399 right now according to their website, but who knows if that's up to date

Steve704
03-29-2013, 09:44 PM
I have shot 2 crates and found a good portion of the rounds to have grossly undersized projectiles. I noticed the extreme yaw (heyholing) at close range on my own, and on a course. Interestingly enough, another guy on the course was shooting the same Norc yellow box, and had to same if not worse results, extreme yaw caused by drastically undersized projectiles. A member on another forum measured about 40 of his own Norc yellow box, and found 81-10 per box of 20 were undersized, some as small as .222

This target was shot using a 14.5" Stag (Not Mine) at about 7 meters.

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa348/Stevejanes704/559746_428000550622375_363865774_n_zps2609d855.jpg

palooka
03-30-2013, 06:17 PM
I put 20 rounds downrange at 200 yards this morning. About 5 shot 6 " groups...no fail to fires,,,dirty but I was going to clean the AR anyway :)

3MTA3
03-31-2013, 07:46 AM
I have shot 2 crates and found a good portion of the rounds to have grossly undersized projectiles. I noticed the extreme yaw (heyholing) at close range on my own, and on a course. Interestingly enough, another guy on the course was shooting the same Norc yellow box, and had to same if not worse results, extreme yaw caused by drastically undersized projectiles. A member on another forum measured about 40 of his own Norc yellow box, and found 81-10 per box of 20 were undersized, some as small as .222

This target was shot using a 14.5" Stag (Not Mine) at about 7 meters.

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa348/Stevejanes704/559746_428000550622375_363865774_n_zps2609d855.jpg

That is just wild. You're just joking right?

lone-wolf
03-31-2013, 10:30 AM
I had an enfield do that, if the bullets are undersized I believe it.

MiniMe
04-03-2013, 01:22 PM
would it have anything to do with the twist rate in the same way they mention in the "differences" section in this doc?

....The Type CQ rifle, in both its Military/LE and Civilian variants, has a 1:12 rifling pitch which allows it to properly stabilize the M193 "Ball" variant of the 5.56mm ammunition or the Type CJ Chinese clone, as well as any .223 Remington commercial cartridge variant that can be stabilized by the 1:12 pitch rifling barrel (normally Varmint or other simple sporter cartridges, up to a maximum bullet weight of 55 Grains). The M193 "Ball" 5.56mm cartridge was never a NATO standard until the adoption of this weapon system by other nations. Type CQ is chambered in "5.56x45mm NATO", but it will not properly stabilize the NATO standard 5.56mm ammunition (the SS109, M855 in US service), which requires a 1:9 or 1:7 pitch rifling barrel due to a bullet weight of 62 Grains. However in an emergency situation these barrels will fire safely the heavier rounds, just the aggregate group size will be much larger and a greater amount of tumbling and "key holing" (the bullet arriving at target sideways due to instability from improper spin rate).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norinco_CQ

3MTA3
04-03-2013, 06:39 PM
I have fired the norinco ammo and other 55g ammo from 1:9 and 1:7 AR's and it worked OK. I guess there appears to be quite a range of experience, with the ammo among different users. The bullet diameters that I checked were very consistent- ~.223"+. Previous post here notes a wide variation in diameters with some being .222" diameter. I am surprised that the small variation would cause such a dramatic result at 7m. I know that some people reload 7.62x39 with .308 projectiles, (where the russian cartridge is .310-.311) with good results.- I am not disputing the previous post, I was just really shocked at the performance.
I have now shot around 250 rounds of this ammo and have not had any issues,it is noticeably louder than AE 55g, with a bit more recoil. At 100 yds the group size was around 4.5"-This was comparable to AE in the same rifle.

The 1:7 and 1:9 twist ARs shoot the 55g projectiles Ok, but the performance of 62-77g projectiles is typically much better.

3MTA3
04-05-2013, 12:45 PM
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t412/sluggo_m14/Norc10rds_zpsa8c82da3.jpg

LHS 10 rnds Hornady 60g Match H335
RHS:10 rnds Norc yellow box 55g @100 yds DD AR15

5.56 Medic
04-05-2013, 03:09 PM
Hey there you go! Fresh of the presses, Norc Yellow Box kicks Hornady's ass!

Steve704
04-05-2013, 04:01 PM
That is just wild. You're just joking right?

NO, Straight up serious man...


would it have anything to do with the twist rate in the same way they mention in the "differences" section in this doc?

....The Type CQ rifle, in both its Military/LE and Civilian variants, has a 1:12 rifling pitch which allows it to properly stabilize the M193 "Ball" variant of the 5.56mm ammunition or the Type CJ Chinese clone, as well as any .223 Remington commercial cartridge variant that can be stabilized by the 1:12 pitch rifling barrel (normally Varmint or other simple sporter cartridges, up to a maximum bullet weight of 55 Grains). The M193 "Ball" 5.56mm cartridge was never a NATO standard until the adoption of this weapon system by other nations. Type CQ is chambered in "5.56x45mm NATO", but it will not properly stabilize the NATO standard 5.56mm ammunition (the SS109, M855 in US service), which requires a 1:9 or 1:7 pitch rifling barrel due to a bullet weight of 62 Grains. However in an emergency situation these barrels will fire safely the heavier rounds, just the aggregate group size will be much larger and a greater amount of tumbling and "key holing" (the bullet arriving at target sideways due to instability from improper spin rate).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norinco_CQ

I have spoken with several experts in the field and while I originally thought the twist rate would have something to do with it. The people in the know have given their opinion that twist rate is not whats causing this. Many others with similar twist rates on their barrels shoot this and other 55gr ammo without issue.

The problem is the ammo is cheap, low quality, horrible QC, chinese, ammo. One guy un-related to this incident on the other side of the country pulled 40 or so bullets from his Norc ammo and found at least 20% of the projectiles were grossly undersized, some are as small as .222


At 100 yds the group size was around 4.5"-This was comparable to AE in the same rifle.

I find the AE to be consistently more accurate than the Norinco. Frankly, most AE hundred yard groups in my experience, look like your Hornady group, not to talk down on your groups, by any means, just that AE is consistently more accurate than most think

3MTA3
04-05-2013, 08:50 PM
I find the AE to be consistently more accurate than the Norinco. Frankly, most AE hundred yard groups in my experience, look like your Hornady group, not to talk down on your groups, by any means, just that AE is consistently more accurate than most think

I agree -the 60g Hornady reloads above were similar to the AE and Norc, 60g only marginally better than either (for this particular load and rifle).

I tested some 77 SMK's and 22g of Varget- they were grouping around ~2-1/4"-
Same stock Daniel Defense 16" AR-I think with a little tweaking up this would be a good load
http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t412/sluggo_m14/smk7722gvarget_zps95a56a50.jpg

Steve704
04-07-2013, 02:17 PM
I shot this group about 9 months ago. 5 rounds at 100 meters, AE 55gr black box, using my Classic Green's Iron Sights, it has the 1in7" twist, 20.79" barrel.

Measured it was 1.9" at it's widest point. I don't shoot with optics, and this is the best I've managed. I would prefer if it was a 10 round group but consistency is really hard to keep after a mag change, as I refuse to use LAR-10 mags.

http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa348/Stevejanes704/Untitled.png

3MTA3
04-07-2013, 05:13 PM
Nice-That's a Swiss rifle for you. I don't think the DD would approach that without a different barrel.

3MTA3
04-14-2013, 04:51 AM
I took my Norc AR to the range with some Norc ammo and some reloads similar to the ones used in the DD, to do some 100yd printing. While the Norc ammo still sprays to about 4.5", the reloads were pretty decent...Love that Norc.

http://i1058.photobucket.com/albums/t412/sluggo_m14/55amp69_zpsd946b877.jpg (http://s1058.photobucket.com/user/sluggo_m14/media/55amp69_zpsd946b877.jpg.html)

killer kane
04-16-2013, 09:46 AM
I've had some mixed results. Not the most accurate ammo, but good enough for what I'm using it for. I have had some case issues though. My XCR likes to bend some of them enough to give me fits. I also thought I could use the brass, now I'm not so sure. Turns out I was having a firing pin issue with the gun. Replaced the pin and ran a hundred or so rounds through, no problems.

OutdoorPursuitsCanada
04-16-2013, 03:11 PM
On the weekend I was shooting 1.25 MOA with Norinco .223 and my target mini-14. Pretty darn good for chicom ammo out of a mini to boot ;)

3MTA3
04-16-2013, 04:10 PM
On the weekend I was shooting 1.25 MOA with Norinco .223 and my target mini-14. Pretty darn good for chicom ammo out of a mini to boot ;)
Were they the incendiary rounds?

OutdoorPursuitsCanada
04-16-2013, 05:44 PM
I wish ;)

3MTA3
04-17-2013, 03:49 AM
BRAND AND BULLET TYPE AVERAGE OF 5-SHOT GROUPS AT 100 YARDS
Federal 55-gr. BTHP* vs. regular Mini-14 Range Rifle 1.304 in. 3.449 in.
Federal 55-gr. Nos Ballistic Tip 1.705 in.
Federal 62-gr. FMJ 1.836 in.
Winchester 40-gr. Nos Ballistic Tip 1.223 in.
Winchester 50-gr. Nos Ballistic Tip 2.564 in.
Winchester 53-gr. HP vs. regular Mini-14 Range Rifle 2.529 in. 3.027 in.
Winchester 64-gr. Power Point 2.261 in.

* smallest group recorded .780 in.

Old test of Target Mini 14- Outdoor life -
Wow

OutdoorPursuitsCanada
04-17-2013, 01:03 PM
Pretty good - take that mini haters...

5.56 Medic
06-01-2013, 07:25 PM
Another couple hours at the range, today. Here's a group with the Yellow Box. I am really liking this inexpensive ammo.

Norinco CQA 556
25 yard and shooting off a pack.
Magpul BUIS
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/06/02/anejy3ym.jpg

OutdoorPursuitsCanada
06-02-2013, 03:34 AM
Tried the norc ammo in my AR, it did not like it. No mechanical issues but it shot minute-of-pie-plate. The mini 14 still shoots it great though.

road kill
06-02-2013, 03:22 PM
Those mini 14's must have the adjustable choke on the muzzle.:pot:;D