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We are happy to announce that from now on all Magpul Pmags sold to Canada by Aztech Armory will be internally blocked to allow for complete dis-assembly... No more Rivets!!
We are working on internal blocks for other mags as well.
So far we have XDm and PPQ blocks with more to come soon. Eventually we hope to eliminate the use of rivets entirely.
That is fantastic! Any chance you'll get 20 rounders internally blocked too?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Yes, 20 rd pmag blocks are ready...Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug_M
Working on the USGI blocks as well.
How is it done exactly?
For the PMAGs a polymer block replaces the base plate retainer and extends up inside of the spring to limit the travel of the follower. You can remove the base plate and block just as you normally would and the follower and spring can then be completely removed.Quote:
Originally Posted by lone-wolf
Pistol mags are just a polymer block epoxied to the underside of the follower or to the top of the base plate retainer, depending on the type of magazine.
:pics:
Ummm are you sure this is legal ? As in accepted by the Law? Cops are used to seeing rivets. I was just reading this :
http://blueline.ca/articles/purposiv...interpretation
I PM'd them with this question, and got a response that put my worries at ease.Quote:
Originally Posted by short1
Crimps are also popular, and not all that easy to see.
OMG! [IMG]http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/...psgxtnbabi.png[/IMG] So, now we will have to rely on the "judgement" call of an LEO and hope they got, read, and understood the memo about no more rivets? I think I like my rivets. The possible fail is strong with this one. [IMG]http://i1320.photobucket.com/albums/...psgxtnbabi.png[/IMG]
We've had them inspected by CBSA and they have no issues. In fact two out of three agents complimented us on them.
Since the base plate retainer is replaced by the block, the magazine would not function properly without it. If you remove the block and reinstall the base plate it would come loose as soon as you try to fire the rifle which would allow the spring and follower (and ammo) to drop out the bottom. I suppose one could reinstall the base plate with some epoxy or possible screw it on somehow, but this would require tools, plus the spring will not stay properly aligned on the base plate without the retainer, so it would likely not function properly.
As an authorized RCMP Verifier, I see this as a more viable option than the rivet, especially when applied to the polymer magazines. If I don't care about the aesthetics of the magazine, it takes me all of about 90 seconds to remove the rivet from a PMAG in the field with my multi-tool, but would require some additional tools and/or parts to make one of ours functional if I remove the block.
If you want rivets we can do that, all you have to is is specify that when you order them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Edenchef
Excerpt from Memorandum D19-13-2
Alteration or modification of a magazine
59. A prescribed cartridge magazine that has been altered or re-manufactured so that it is not capable of containing more than five or ten cartridges, as the case may be, of the type for which it was originally designed is not a prohibited device as prescribed by that provision if the modification to the magazine cannot be easily removed and the magazine cannot be easily further altered so that it is capable of containing more than five or ten cartridges, as the case may be.
60. For the purposes of the above, altering or re-manufacturing a cartridge magazine includes:
(a) the indentation of its casing by forging, casting, swaging or impressing;
(b) in the case of a cartridge magazine with a steel or aluminum casing, the insertion and attachment of a plug, sleeve, rod, pin, flange or similar device, made of steel or aluminum, as the case may be, or of a similar material, to the inner surface of its casing by welding, brazing or any other similar method; or
(c) in the case of a cartridge magazine with a casing made of a material other than steel or aluminum, the attachment of a plug, sleeve, rod, pin, flange or similar device, made of steel or of a material similar to that of the magazine casing, to the inner surface of its casing by welding, brazing or any other similar method or by applying a permanent adhesive substance, such as cement, epoxy or other glue.
61. This is not necessarily an all-exhaustive list and therefore not the only acceptable methods of converting magazines to five or fewer shots capacity for rifles/shotguns or ten or less for handguns.
Sorry, we've already sold all the ones that came in on the June import so I can't get pics for you now, but I'll get some of the next batch and post up then.Quote:
Originally Posted by mister donut
Sorry, Marshal. We really need a sarcasm smiley here on GOC. I think what you have done is great. I was trying to poke fun at the fact that the average serving LEO cannot/does not even care to understand the current regulations about firearms. Now I have to carry ANOTHER piece of paper to educate these neanderthal LEO's about the very law's that THEY are supposed to be enforcing. My point is: if these morons are not properly trained in the law, why is it my responsibility to educate them....for free. Educating them on the law is the obligation/duty of the Government and that is what I supposedly pay some taxes for....educating these thugs, before they f___kup somebodies life, by their ignorance/lack of proper training. If ignorance of the law is not a defense for a citizen; why is it tolerated/allowed/even encouraged for LEO's? We all know the answer....$$$$$$. These are the new "Sheriffs of Nottingham"; collecting the hidden taxes(fines) for their masters(government) bloated treasury.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall
Thank you Marshall for elaborating on the legalities.
This is a very good point... The court is not in the wrong here.Quote:
Originally Posted by short1
Here's another excerpt from Memorandum D19-13-2
56. A magazine is a device or container from which ammunition may be fed into the firing chamber of a firearm. This can be an internal or external component of the firearm. For CBSA purposes, any box, body or case of a disassembled magazine will be deemed a magazine, even if at the time of examination it does not contain a follower or spring.
Note that it says "for CBSA purposes". In this case the empty bodies were being imported with no internal parts installed, so that's where the problem arose. The law also states the all magazines must be limited in their capacity prior to import. If they were complete magazines blocked to five rounds there would not have been the issue.
The law also says that rivets must fit tightly and not be loose. This works okay in steel bodied magazines, but in polymer the rivets tend to work loose after use. Every time you load the mag the follower pushes against the rivet and elongates the hole slightly. I've seen some that are so loose after several hundred reloads you can fit six rounds in them and then you have a prohibited device without even realizing it.
I totally agree, sir. But try telling Ian T that he was legal.
You're welcome!Quote:
Originally Posted by short1
I'm sure the sarcasm smiley would get a lot of use in discussions such as this...
So, just to be clear; an unaltered magazine body without parts is only illegal when you try to import it? As an unassembled magazine body already in Canada without a rivet, indent or other body attached blocking device, that is legal?
Wasn't there case law on this already? I do believe there was a guy trying to import bodies by themselves to be pinned in Canada. He was charged, and convicted. What is to stop someone from being charged with an unassembled magazine body that hasn't been modified to limit to 5 because a baseplate block is being used?
First let me clarify that I'm not a lawyer or a judge... but I do know what CBSA will and will not allow for import. As mentioned previously, we have had these magazines inspected by CBSA and there was no issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by DOOK
To the point of the question, one could certainly argue that the body alone could be considered prohibited as was the case when the referenced individual was charged and convicted of trying to import them. However, once the magazine is assembled it is no longer a prohibited device as it can be clearly demonstrated that it will not hold more than the specified five or ten rounds. The S&W M&P22 pistol is a good example of an allowable factory 10 round magazine which has an internal block. Only difference between that and ours is their block is easily removed by hand and needs no replacement parts in order to function with the block removed.
With that all said I suppose if you had the need or desire to transport the empty bodies it would be wise to add a rivet, but as long as they are assembled I see no reason for concern.
Thank you again Marshall for navigating the minefield that is Canadian Firearms Law.
I would definitely be in for a dozen of these.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall
Any further information on this Marshall? Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall
For people like me who already have many (I have 8) Gen3 Pmags, will you be selling the internal block piece separately so I can get rid of my rivet and use these instead?
And before anyone asks, the fact that these new mags can be disassembled is awesome. During dis-assembly you'll have all the parts separated, and therefore the magazine body by itself. If I were to purchase 8 of the internal block pieces (assuming they're available separately), I'd have to remove the rivets in my existing mag bodies, thereby making them exactly the same as the NEW mag bodies that already come with the insert (mine would have a hold where the rivet was obviously).
Finally (again assuming you can/will sell the internal blocks), does anyone see any legal issues with doing this to your existing mags??
Thanks,
Battle Beaver
R. v. Cancade, 2008/2011 BCCAQuote:
Originally Posted by DOOK
-- 2011 http://canlii.ca/t/fkfmh
-- 2008 http://caselaw.canada.globe24h.com/0...bcpc-336.shtml
If we were take this case as a precedent, then all standard capacity magazines would need to be considered as prohibited devices. As I've mentioned in a previous post, the rivets can easily be removed with nothing more than a multi-tool in in far less time than it has taken me to type this. We just brought in another dozen Gen 2's with no issue at CBSA, so I have to believe that there were other mitigating circumstances surrounding this case.Quote:
Originally Posted by RangeBob
I'm sure we can sell the blocks by themselves. Give me a few days to work out the price and get a page set up on our site. Once I have it figured out I'll post a link.Quote:
Originally Posted by OverKill
I see no legal issue with this, but apparently it would be ill advised to transport the empty bodies... and for what it's worth I suggest you dispose of the original base plate retainers after you replace them with the blocks since without the retainer it would be virtually impossible to assemble the magazines as standard capacity "prohibited" devices.
Hey, sorry for the delay on this. The 5/20 blocks are ready, but no word on the timing for the 5/30 ones. Truth is the guys we have working on it don't have any sense of urgency. We're discussing the possibility of making them ourselves, so I'll update on that front once we decide if that's a viable option.Quote:
Originally Posted by ponymusic
The 5/20 are what I am looking for, if these fit original Colt and US issue 20 round mags. The Colt mags (2) are are early 80's that came with my SP1 and the US mags (10) are Vietnam era surplus M16 mags. Thank you for your help Marshall. Take care.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall
Hi Marshall, any eta on these?Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall
Waiting for an answer as to whether they will work with the original Colt Mags. The supplier told me today they used a C-Products mag as a template, so I think it should work, but he said he would find an original mag to test it with and get back to me. I'm not familiar with the C-products ones... they look the same on the outside but not sure if the followers are the same... Maybe you know?Quote:
Originally Posted by ponymusic
Hey sorry for the delay on this... I'll get these priced and loaded onto our site soon and post a link here.Quote:
Originally Posted by OverKill
here's a link to the Pmag 5/30 blocks: https://www.aztecharmory.com/round-b...g-p-26823.html
Again, sorry for taking so long to get around to this...
I have some C-Products .50 Beowulf mags, and comparing the bottom of the followers, they appear to be of a similar design in the critical area. If you receive some mag blocks before the next import date, I'll buy one to try and report back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marshall