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  1. #1
    http://www.rightedition.com/ Right Edition's Avatar
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    Typical Liberal - Indians and Land Rights



    Typical Liberal - Indians and Land Rights

    Gene Nichol History

    The often-controversial president of the College of William & Mary resigned Tuesday, amid outrage for allowing a pornographic show to be performed on campus.

    Gene Nichol announced his resignation, effective immediately, after learning that the school's board had decided not to renew his contract due in July. Nichols had often came under intense criticism for making decisions that some claimed suppressed Christian expression.

    Last week, Nichol outraged several students for allowing a sex show on campus featuring porn actors, strippers and other sex workers. He said Tuesday that he would have violated the First Amendment had he banned the show from the student-governed speaker series.
    http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2008/F...ter-Scandals-/

    Indian Land Rights

    Objections raised by B.C. aboriginals to proposed logging in their traditional hunting grounds have resulted three decades later in the clearest and farthest-reaching decision on Indian land claims and title, with the Supreme Court of Canada upholding on Thursday a lower court ruling that gives First Nations effective control over vast tracts of territory outside their reserves.

    While the ruling deals specifically with litigation over 1,700 square kilometres in B.C.'s central interior, for centuries home to six Tsilhqot'in Nation bands with a common history and culture, it will influence — and likely instigate — more land-based claims across Canada.
    Thursday's decision establishes conditions aboriginal groups must meet to press collective rights on territories outside their settlements or formal treaty boundaries.
    http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/06...ergy-projects/

    Christie supports larger Capacity Magazines

    On July 2nd, Christie vetoed A2006, a bill that would have limited firearm magazine capacities to 10 rounds in New Jersey.



    Christie criticized the bill as a do-nothing approach to curbing gun violence that unnecessarily burdens gun owners. Christie stated,



    "This [bill] is the very embodiment of reform in name only. It simply defies common sense to believe that imposing a new and entirely arbitrary number of bullets that can be loaded into a firearm will somehow eradicate, or even reduce, future instances of mass violence."

    http://www.tpnn.com/2014/07/04/chris...-magazine-ban/

  2. #2
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    since when in the Indians history did they own "mother earth". all I have ever heard of is that they and lived off her.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Strewth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Shultz View Post
    since when in the Indians history did they own "mother earth". all I have ever heard of is that they and lived off her.
    I honestly feel for them as a group, they have quite the mental schism going. What kind of culture are they trying to preserve? Back to the land? Modern, with traditional trappings? Somewhere in between? I don't think the First Nations know themselves what they're trying to do, anymore.
    The faster we can cut them off the free money train the better. Free things are never respected, and generational free things seem to lead to crazy entitlement issues.
    There's a band in Northern BC (The Nisga'a, remember them?) that's finally going to give the members the ability to own property, instead of all of it being held by "the band", which is to say the chiefs.... And why would you respect the house you're in if all you do is pay cheap rent for it? It's very difficult to credit people with being "Stewards of the Land" when they can't seem to maintain a 1/4 acre to Western standards....but nomads never had to, they moved on with the herds or the seasons. Is the nomadic culture what keeps reserves from having huge communal vegetable gardens? That's something I'd do?
    CSSA CCFR

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    The idea that First Nations members receive "free money" is a common misconception. The First Nations don't receive anything for free. Anything they receive from the government is the result of treaties or agreements that allows the Crown to use the land in co-operation with them. The First Nations had a legal claim of sovereignty that existed long before Europeans set foot on North American soil.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Strewth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kal View Post
    The idea that First Nations members receive "free money" is a common misconception. The First Nations don't receive anything for free.
    The First Nations I work with every day do, with no land use by the government? Maybe the roads and dike system? They also receive a major tax break on many goods and services, which is also a subsidy?

    The legal claim of sovereignty was ceded to Europeans? The land was claimed by the British. This is all very nasty of course; what exactly is legal? We still deal with residuals of this the world over. Is conquest "legal"? How far back in time do we go? What exactly are land rights?
    Regardless, I think we've proven that the reserve system doesn't work. Time to try something else that doesn't trap entire generations of people in poverty. The First Nations have an amazing culture, and it's being slowly strangled through time, a terrible way to go. I see many new immigrants keeping their culture alive with no help from the tax payer, and I think this is the only way to actually keep traditions alive instead of merely propped up.
    CSSA CCFR

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strewth View Post
    The First Nations I work with every day do, with no land use by the government? Maybe the roads and dike system? They also receive a major tax break on many goods and services, which is also a subsidy?

    The legal claim of sovereignty was ceded to Europeans? The land was claimed by the British. This is all very nasty of course; what exactly is legal? We still deal with residuals of this the world over. Is conquest "legal"? How far back in time do we go? What exactly are land rights?
    Regardless, I think we've proven that the reserve system doesn't work. Time to try something else that doesn't trap entire generations of people in poverty. The First Nations have an amazing culture, and it's being slowly strangled through time, a terrible way to go. I see many new immigrants keeping their culture alive with no help from the tax payer, and I think this is the only way to actually keep traditions alive instead of merely propped up.
    I did not say sovereignty was ceded to Europeans, rather that FN groups had a sovereignty claim long before any Europeans made it to N.A. I understand the treaties were originally made with the British. Regardless of how the land is or is not being used, the treaties and what is legally promised therein does not change.

    As for cutting off the money, that would largely be illegal and if recent court rulings are any evidence, the Government would be taken to the cleaners. Further, simply cutting off the money doesn't solve the systemic cultural problems within the First Nations. Cutting off the money, even if it could be legally (and ethically) done only further exacerbates the problems.

    The way to solve many of issues facing the First Nations is for these groups to heal, grow and develop their skills for living in the modern world. The problem isn't that the FN doesn't respect the money or will not stand on their own because they receive money, it is because generations of FN individuals that were horrifically treated by the government. Due to this treatment, many of these individuals lacked the ability to function healthily and successfully in our society. The systemic problems faced by the FN will only cease once the FN has healed and grown from its history. That is something that cannot be rushed nor be corrected with the strike of a pen.
    Last edited by Kal; 07-17-2014 at 08:36 PM.

  7. #7
    Canadian ForcesOgre Haywire1's Avatar
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    They arent some primitive stone age tribe recently discovered. they have exactly the same opportunities, if not more opportunities that anyone else to better themselves and "live in the modern world". So their ancestors got hosed on treaties. So their culture was treated bad by the govt. They are far from the only group to deal with that. Want examples using the Brits as bad guys? Ireland and Scotland, years of oppressive rule, and assaults on culture as well as horrific treatment. Australia, dumping ground for convicts of all sorts ( most of which were indegent, ie a cop asked how much money they had on them, if the answer was none, bingo, indigent), China,(used opium there), India, etc etc ad nauseam.

    As I said earlier, there are plenty of reserves who work hard, own businesses (not casinos either), and have lower crime rates than other places. There are dives that look more suited to third world countries. I know a few from those reserves who had the same chamces as everyone else on the res, one is a dr, a couple are lawyers, 3 own businesses(one a multimillion dollar outfit).

    Then factor in the not having to pay taxes, the hunting and fishing freedoms, band money, etc, coupled with the seeming ability to shut down everything from highways to raillines and everything in between with complete impunity ( because even with court orders the cops have refused to enforce the courts orders) and is it any wonder why there is a growing number of Canadians who are tired of this crap?

    They were not first nations. They were a bunch of primitive tribes of hunter gatherers (mainly) who fought and killed, kidnapped, massacred, tortured etc each other a lot of times on sight. They didnt own the land, they wandered across it and lived in a certain area until pushed out by a stronger tribe, then they in turn pushed a weaker tribe out of somewhere else. And they got treated a lot better here than they did in the U.S.

    Sorry for the rather verbose post, but I get sick and tired about hearing how I should feel sorry for someone because their great great grandpa got hosed in a land deal, or hearing about how they need time to get better, I owe them etc. Suck it up, get a job, go to school and put an effort into making something of yourself rather than regurgitating the same old tired liberal crap about the poor downtrodden ancestors you have.
    Last edited by Haywire1; 07-17-2014 at 10:10 PM.
    in pace, ut sapiens, aptarit idonea bello
    - In peace, like a wise man, he appropriately prepares for war

  8. #8
    Senior Member Camo tung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywire1 View Post
    Sorry for the rather verbose post, but I get sick and tired about hearing how I should feel sorry for someone because their great great grandpa got hosed in a land deal, or hearing about how they need time to get better, I owe them etc. Suck it up, get a job, go to school and put an effort into making something of yourself rather than regurgitating the same old tired liberal crap about the poor downtrodden ancestors you have.
    But to be fair, I believe it was Jesus that told them "don't do anything until I get back".
    And here we sit. (flame suit on!!)
    "It is an absolute truism that law-abiding, armed citizens pose no threat to other law-abiding citizens."

    Ammo, camo and things that go "blammo".

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haywire1 View Post
    They arent some primitive stone age tribe recently discovered. they have exactly the same opportunities, if not more opportunities that anyone else to better themselves and "live in the modern world". So their ancestors got hosed on treaties. So their culture was treated bad by the govt. They are far from the only group to deal with that. Want examples using the Brits as bad guys? Ireland and Scotland, years of oppressive rule, and assaults on culture as well as horrific treatment. Australia, dumping ground for convicts of all sorts ( most of which were indegent, ie a cop asked how much money they had on them, if the answer was none, bingo, indigent), China,(used opium there), India, etc etc ad nauseam.

    As I said earlier, there are plenty of reserves who work hard, own businesses (not casinos either), and have lower crime rates than other places. There are dives that look more suited to third world countries. I know a few from those reserves who had the same chamces as everyone else on the res, one is a dr, a couple are lawyers, 3 own businesses(one a multimillion dollar outfit).

    Then factor in the not having to pay taxes, the hunting and fishing freedoms, band money, etc, coupled with the seeming ability to shut down everything from highways to raillines and everything in between with complete impunity ( because even with court orders the cops have refused to enforce the courts orders) and is it any wonder why there is a growing number of Canadians who are tired of this crap?

    They were not first nations. They were a bunch of primitive tribes of hunter gatherers (mainly) who fought and killed, kidnapped, massacred, tortured etc each other a lot of times on sight. They didnt own the land, they wandered across it and lived in a certain area until pushed out by a stronger tribe, then they in turn pushed a weaker tribe out of somewhere else. And they got treated a lot better here than they did in the U.S.

    Sorry for the rather verbose post, but I get sick and tired about hearing how I should feel sorry for someone because their great great grandpa got hosed in a land deal, or hearing about how they need time to get better, I owe them etc. Suck it up, get a job, go to school and put an effort into making something of yourself rather than regurgitating the same old tired liberal crap about the poor downtrodden ancestors you have.
    All of those cultures you named that were treated badly are still fighting to this day for what has occured in the past. However, when analyzing the respective situations we see those situations are unlike what had happened to the First Nations. Many of those horrifiically treated cultures were able to rebound quicker as they had a stronger base to fall back upon. In the case of Canada's aboriginals their culture was largely destroyed. That coupled with the mental, emotional, physical and sexual abuses these people suffered it is clear to understand why generations of these people were slow to heal and grow. Anyone with the slightest amount of sociological education understands that recovering from such a history simply doesn't occur within a single generation. Further, you are assuming that many of these people possessed the faculties to "go out and get a job, etc" just as easily as someone with a healthy mental and emotional disposition. That is simply not the case. Decades of sociological, psychological, anthropological, etc evidence support this.

    Not to insult you, but there is a clear disconnect between what you expect of these people and what the evidence has shown us.

    I am not telling you to feel sorry for anyone, but it is incredibly difficult to deny what we have learned regarding the sociological development of people.

    Frankly, I am too sick and tired of having to explain the realities of the situation due to the ignorance of others. As for the "growing number of Canadian growing tired of this crap," despite what Sun News is hoping their viewers buy into, the number of Canadian who understand the atrocities and their effects on the First Nations are the ones who are growing in number.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Shultz View Post
    since when in the Indians history did they own "mother earth". all I have ever heard of is that they and lived off her.
    That's their understanding of ownership. Responsibility and duty without bribes and threats are European ideas.

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