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  1. #41
    Senior Member Petamocto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harbl_the_cat View Post
    I think the damage the so called "off put" messages cause are actually less severe than many in our community think they are.
    I think Canadians have proven that for the most part they are not actively involved about caring about gun laws, so I see this debate kind of like our brand (Team Gun) vs the other team's brand (Team Anti).

    Someone deciding Ford vs Chevy, or BMW vs Mercedes, or Honda vs Toyota, or Ferrari vs Lamborghini is based on a long-term war of establishing your brand. Any time there's a mass shooting in the US, that's bad for our brand. Any time a kid gets hold of a gun and shoots themself, their parent, or their safety officer, that's bad for our brand. Any time there's a gang shooting in Toronto, that's bad for our brand.

    A lot of those things we can't do anything about, because they don't involve responsible gun owners. Unless we can inform people on why those people above are not responsible gun owners, we're going to get lumped in with all of them.

    Here's why the NFA and NRA are bad for "Team Gun" in Canada: They are trying to paint themselves as responsible gun owners, but they are being complete jackasses about it. So now we've got Joe Canadian seeing all these things in the media about shootings, and when they are presented "our" side of the argument they are presented with an in-your-face "no compromise" mindset, so what are they going to think? Gang bangers with guns are bad. Crazy people doing mass shootings with guns are bad. And now, the people who are supposed to be the good guys are also coming off as people who scare them, why on Earth would they think guns can be good?

    Getting back to your point, we need to get it right every time we have our chance to shape our target market. Rod Giltaca does that, the NFA does the opposite. If we were looking to get soccer moms on our side and we were Team Honda, the NFA ads would be a Honda Accord owner having road rage and cutting everyone else off the road. Soccer mom watches that and says "Wow, I don't even have to love Toyota, now I know I hate Honda".

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    hercster (01-25-2015)

  3. #42
    Senior Member hercster's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RangeBob View Post
    Some try so hard to be a 200% American that they haven't really understood what makes this country. What makes this country is not its great men standing alone trying to do the impossible. It's men of all kinds, large and small, trying to do a job together. Not for their personal honour, but for the honour of their country.
    -- paladin; bWCg0X37Di0#t=1423
    Hey Mr. Bob. In terms of time, I'm 50% American as I've spent six months a year here since 2006. I just love my friends here in Texas. Contrary to some of the stereotypes, the Texans I know are the most incredibly warm, polite and hospitable people I've met with Newfoundlanders being the only comparable. That said, I'm not sure I understand the American people any better now than in year one. I jokingly refer to the country as the Disunited States. I don't see it getting any better either which saddens, puzzles and annoys me. The only group of people that are comparable in terms of wilful dysfunction are ........... ahem, Canadian gun owners. Sometimes I think we are like a rowboat with two oars pulling in opposite directions. Like the US, we really need a smart, skillful, charismatic and powerful leader that can whip us into shape. I wish one of the current orgs could fill that role but I don't see it happening anymore than Americans will get behind any of the current crop of politicians.

    One of the most interesting idea that came out of the brand X forum thread was that we need a "federation" of the existing orgs rather than a merger. One or two posts talked about a federation comprising a diverse membership of groups with a "civil liberties" orientation. That could be a very large group and would maintain the integrity of the current orgs rather than challenge it. I think that's the core of an excellent idea. Once again, we need a Knight in Shining Armor to get the idea rolling. I think it's going to have to be a professional organizer with strategic smarts. It would also be expensive as those kinds of talent don't come cheaply.

    Possibly the most solid, unified and effective group in the US is the NRA. That's both interesting and scary for many. There's a thread over on "brand X" that was started in an effort to identify the characteristics of the ideal Canadian gun lobby. As much as I don't like a lot of what I see in the NRA, I think they are the model. That said, they have several huge advantages over what we have in Canada as a foundation, including the Second Amendment and their appeal to Americans who see themselves as patriotic; we lack both those elements so it's a much bigger struggle.
    Last edited by hercster; 01-25-2015 at 08:28 PM.
    NightHawkCustom Pred II 45, NHC .22 upper, Stag Arms AR 15, Rem. Versa Max Tactical 12 Ga. Tanfoglio Ltd Custom Xtreme, an upgraded Tanfo Ltd Pro, Seraphim 1911 .45 ACP Archangel, Seraphim 9mm Warfighter, SIG P320 FS in 9mm with a .40 conversion and now a SIG P226 Enhanced Elite 9mm.

  4. #43
    Senior Member RangeBob's Avatar
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    hercster:

    I was worried about if my post would be understood in context.
    I wasn't writing about Americans. (indeed at one point I replaced the word 'American' with 'Canadian', but then restored the quote back to the original).

    I was thinking more about post #35 through post #38, with Foxer and harbl_the_cat chatting about Rod and NFA and 'swarms of quality' and 'swarms lacking quality',
    and various other threads I've seen over the years looking for single do-it-all leader for Canadian gun culture, who's telegenic like Charlton Heston, a pregnant lesbian black woman in a wheel chair, able to debate anyone with the facts on his fingertips like Data (Star Trek TNG). Or perhaps as you put it "we really need a smart, skillful, charismatic and powerful leader that can whip us into shape"

    And that quote by paladin about each doing what they can, seemed an apropos reminder of what's easier.

    The "some try so hard to be 200% American that they haven't really understood" was what I was thinking of the NFA (Canada) this hour.
    (and I'm usually in favour of CSSA's 'ear of politician vs secrets' tradeoff, when combined with NFA's 'no compromise and no seat at the table' approach -- when either approach alone would be bad. As for the day-to-day NFA 'announcements' political correctness, we'll comment on those as they appear.)
    Last edited by RangeBob; 01-25-2015 at 09:16 PM.

  5. #44
    Senior Member hercster's Avatar
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    I didn't misunderstand your post Mr. Bob but just used it to once again record my sense of the "state of the union" vis a vis our various projects and the challenges we face. I'm also on record regarding what I think of the NFA's tactical dance in futility. Mostly I just rely on what I think is "common sense" despite the shortage of that commodity in what we see. Like all of us, I have no idea of what could be happening behind the scenes. The struggle we are facing is by no means a trivial one. It's going to take a lot of time, a lot of skill and some very rare leadership for us to make yards. I find it really frustrating that some think nothing of poisoning the well with poorly conceived and executed game playing. Too often we end up looking like a bunch of prepubescent boys with an erection but very little idea of what to do with it.
    NightHawkCustom Pred II 45, NHC .22 upper, Stag Arms AR 15, Rem. Versa Max Tactical 12 Ga. Tanfoglio Ltd Custom Xtreme, an upgraded Tanfo Ltd Pro, Seraphim 1911 .45 ACP Archangel, Seraphim 9mm Warfighter, SIG P320 FS in 9mm with a .40 conversion and now a SIG P226 Enhanced Elite 9mm.

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